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Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

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You know, I feel like saying something to the effect of "I accepted becoming Sun Lilling's enemy because her rival was my roommate. CRX has offered me more than that as incentive, and I hope to grow as close to her." Basically, say that we were neutral, but once we take a side we stay with it for the long haul.
 
Kyr'am said:
You're being ridiculously paranoid right now. It's more than a little unlikely that Cai Renxiang is going to be replaced as heir, let alone killed (well, right now -- it's always possible that might change in the future, but very likely not any time soon in game or IRL) for a number of reasons, which have been listed before. I get that probably nothing short of a WoG will change your mind given your vehemence on the subject, but at least try to consider other (more likely) possibilities.

Also, you keep misspelling replaced.
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I am sure that Cai reaction here is joy and absolutely not fear at being remplaced.

yrsillar said:
"...While I would not dream of demanding information from you, honored Mother...Why have I previously been informed of your condition?" Ling Qi's liege asked promptly. Even Ling Qi could see the tension in the girls shoulders, she was as off balance as Ling Qi had ever seen her.

"Do not feel slighted, my daughter," the Duchess replied easily, though the pulse of the light radiating from her turned even that casual statement into a command. "I have deemed the situation stable, and will thus be making the knowledge public, as if this day. Rejoice Renxiang, you shall soon have a younger sister."

"This is truly joyous occasion," Renxiang replied, almost mechanically. "I will look forward to greeting her."
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When CRX conditionnement fail in front of her mother, it's the sign that she is more than shaken. I don't expect just having a sibling to get her so off balance.

Knowing that she is going to die tho ? That I can see it shaking her enough.

adaer said:
"See that you don't die too soon" is not a threat though. If she'd said "that may happen sooner than you think" or something, that could be taken as a threat. This is her making fun a bit for him going "I'd die for her if it helped!" by saying "whoa there kid, chill out a bit". I have no idea how you're reading a threat into it, and going from that to saying that we need to distance ourselves from her daughter and seem like we aren't loyal so she doesn't kill us is absurd. Especially because if you're wrong then distancing ourselves is the last thing we want to do when she's asking about why we follow her.
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We visibly aren't reading the same quest if you think that Cai mom can even envisage of saying something similar to "chill out".
 
archangis said:
We visibly aren't reading the same quest if you think that Cai mom can even envisage of saying something similar to "chill out".
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To make fun of him slightly? Right after needling her daughter for recruiting someone who looks like a younger version of her own lover? No, that absolutely seems in character. Also, you didn't refute any of my actual point there.
 
veekie said:
Basically yes. I'm trying to emphasize that we DO believe CRX means what she says, but that we also recognize that loyalty by ideals is kind of flimsy in the real world.
With emphasis that under Cai Shenhua we're likely to wind up with a powerful, untouchable liege who is ALSO at least somewhat benevolent, which is good for our mortal family.
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That's why I liked your vote so much. It honestly felt like quintessential Ling Qi.

Unfortunately, this entire voting period has been a mess of different–mostly bad–ideas, and I didn't want any of the other votes to win, so I switched to the "selfish girl". It felt the closest that I could find to yours.

Sorry. :(
 
adaer said:
To make fun of him slightly? Right after needling her daughter for recruiting someone who looks like a younger version of her own lover? No, that absolutely seems in character. Also, you didn't refute any of my actual point there.
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Your point hinge on lying to a white by telling her that we are loyal to CRX. I am not even sure where to start with.

She was telling her daughter they are very similar trough a joke. Which is something that she do relativelly often given that Cai called herself a monster like her mother.

The goal here was to reinforce Cai thinking that she is like her mother. What she said to GG has no purpose in furthering CRX training.
 
Erebeal said:
The thing is, I think, that that option is approaching this write-in from a different perspective. Rather than trying to solve the problem in the best way, it's asking "what might Ling Qi's heart blurt out?"

It's not necessarily the best option, or what Ling Qi would decide to say if she were thinking about it, but it is an interesting narrative idea.

Now, I would say that the line on its own doesn't work very well. It isn't really an answer. That being said, I really like FixerUpper's elaboration and follow-up to it. In some ways this second part could actually work pretty well as an answer on its own:

My concern here is that Ling Qi openly saying this almost feels like it's jumping the character development forward a bit too fast. I kind of feel like this is the kind of dramatic heartfelt speech we could be giving to Renxiang during some trial in a couple of years, but I don't know if Ling Qi would be able to openly say it right now.
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It's not even "jumping character development" too fast. I would argue that it's doing the big sin of write-in in quests where a specific protagonist doesn't have characterisation, and deciding "wouldn't it be cool if the protagonist thought like that?", then retconning the past with plenty of omake/write in stuff.

But Ling Qi has a character, and this is not a collaboration work where we can ensure both CRX and Shenhua also have no prior character and will follow the exact scenarios we want them to follow.

Ling Qi is currently characterised by being very, very cautious around people who have power over herself. This is a defining trait that has been remarked upon many times. Not only that, she is also not characterised as someone who believes that CRX's ideals would make a better place for her to live in- she is willing to give it a shot, but she is more looking for a higher purpose rather than this specific ideal.

Going for "I am a selfish, greedy girl" is basically saying "Well, screw current characterisation of Ling Qi being extra cautious right now or of her not yet being fully sold on CRX's dreams, screw the idea that CRX and Shenhua could have established characters too, this scene is a cool one". It is a cool scene, and it's why I am wary of write-ins.
 
yrsillar said:
To address motivation issues. Choosing to take the cai route comes from a few points in Ling Qi's character.

On the shallowest level, there is Ling Qi's desire for power, or more specifically, her desire to be able to control her own circumstances. There is no path that allows her to do that entirely... but Cai's is the one the that puts the fewest people in a position to order her around.

On the second level, there is her budding desire for a home. The Sect has been her first home, and could certainly grow to be a true one... but Cai is the fastest route to receiving a place that is hers and hers alone(mostly, don't sweat the legal details of vassalship, she's not thinking about those.)

On the third, it will Ling Qi deciding to engage with her low level desire for something higher than her own selfishness, she might not believe in Cai's ideals, but she is willing to give them a shot and see if they can survive reality.

Are plenty of those somewhat shortsighted and not entirely logical? Yes, because Ling Qi is still fifteen.
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Here word of God, reasons for Cai route IC.

This reasons don't look idealistic to me.

One could say that power = cultivation + wealth + influence
Ling Qi mentioned it once she couldn't stop cultivating because there is to many people who could crush her on a whim.

Also Cultivation = talent + wealth + knowledge + time

Personally I'm really uncomfortable with this push from some people to make Ling Qi more altruistic/idealistic.

For me it is healthy and normal that she care more for herself, her family and friends than strangers and abstract ideas.
 
So, part of the reason, I think, for the dissatisfaction with this vote is that we just can't find an answer we're really happy with.

And there's a reason for that.

It's because Ling Qi is conflicted about joining Cai. She isn't certain that it's the right choice. She knows that Cai is a fantastic opportunity for her ambitions. She wants to believe she can be a better person, and work for something greater.

But she doesn't really believe it yet. And, as @Arkeus has noted, she isn't sure that Cai's ideals are one's she truly likes. They're tempting. No-one else seems to have anything better around. But she doesn't really understand Cai's ideals, or what the consequences of them might be, and she doesn't really trust talk of justice and powerful people. At the same time there is a beauty and a strength in those ideals that she likes, and Cai keeps being all upstanding and dealing with her well, so she can't just brush her off.

So she's unsure. She doesn't know if this is really what she wants to be doing - but she still made that leap of faith, and chose to join Cai.

But because of this uncertainty and inner conflict, we don't have a clear simple answer yet. Nothing we say is really "right" because we/she aren't sure if she's right yet.

We need to accept that we can't find the perfect answer here.

We aren't there yet.

Ling Qi isn't there yet.

We're uncertain and conflicted. And that's just the way things are.
 
[X] Lady Cai's offer was the one that offered us the greatest potential for growth. She offered us a home where we could extend our roots, opportunities that would let us advance as a cultivator, an ideal that would help us grow as a person.
 
Erebeal said:
So, part of the reason, I think, for the dissatisfaction with this vote is that we just can't find an answer we're really happy with.
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I would argue that a lot of that stems from people having very different ideas of what's going on inside Ling Qi's head, where they want the quest to go, etc. Also, the fact that a significant minority aren't happy that we chose to follow Cai Renxiang in the first place isn't helping.

Basically, I'd say it's just more of your normal quester division (and it's hardly the worst I've seen -- WSIA comes to mind).
 
[X] Lady Cai's offer was the one that offered us the greatest potential for growth. She offered us a home where we could extend our roots, opportunities that would let us advance as a cultivator, an ideal that would help us grow as a person.
[x] Because through action and reputation, she has proven herself deserving of respect. Moreover, I see Lady Cai's path as the best way to create something of my own; as well for my personal growth as both a cultivator and person. Though I still question the feasibility of your daughter's vision of a better world, it is a worthy goal.

I just don't see Ling Qi as particularly enamored with material wealth. It's more of an abstract concept like "whoa, the drugs I use cost enough to feed a family for a year" with more focus being on a need to not be vulnerable than to be all that powerful. I think working towards power is subsequently just something she considers the obvious choice.

I also think that brutal honesty isn't in character here. Ling Qi's repeatedly cowed by those more powerful than her, which makes sense considering how cynical she is in the belief that those with power can and will do as they please. She'll often end up blurting out truths when angry or be blunt when teasing friends but meeting the Duchess fits neither situation. Ling Qi just isn't that type of brave/defiant and there's no reason that it would be looked upon favourably outside of protagonist warping.

Either way, I'm hoping to see yrs massively paraphrase whatever wins.
Adhoc vote count started by Grigori on Jun 9, 2018 at 4:35 AM, finished with 450 posts and 91 votes.
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Grigori said:
Either way, I'm hoping to see yrs massively paraphrase whatever wins.
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If you want massive paraphrasing, consider mine? It's the only vote that's in the form of guidelines for yrs to paraphrase rather than specific wording. As far as I can tell, the current winning vote basically has my three main points, but much shorter and more poetic.
 
Kai Merah said:
If you want massive paraphrasing, consider mine? It's the only vote that's in the form of guidelines for yrs to paraphrase rather than specific wording. As far as I can tell, the current winning vote basically has my three main points, but much shorter and more poetic.
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I don't actually like the idea of guidelines, feels like minimum effort when yrs is testing a system of keeping people engaged with less mechanics. I'm also not a fan of the focus on material wealth.

I don't expect yrs to use any vote verbatim but some votes are seemingly going to need more extrapolation and embellishment than I expected.
 
yrsillar said:
"This one, on the other hand… I approve, Renxiang. It seems you have inherited my aesthetic tastes," Some distant part of Ling Qi's mind that wasn't screaming danger warning at her was confused, until the Duchess' gaze flicked away, drawing hers with it, to the other woman present.

Minister Linqin, with her dark skin, neatly combed but clearly wavy dark brown hair, looked back, unamused. "My Lady, perhaps now is not the time for jests," she reminded gently, somehow unphased at the Duchess' attention.

The woman-monster hummed, but gestured for her to lower her head, allowing Ling Qi to quickly fix her eyes back on the carpet.

She caught Cai Renxiang shooting her a look of genuine apology on the way back to staring at the carpet though.
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A couple thing:

first, this is one of the very rare time that Ling Qi is sure that CRX is genuine. It seems that when it comes to her mother is where CRX is the most raw and true.

Second, @yrsillar, does this mean now is the right time to ask CRX about Shenhua's sex life?
 
Grigori said:
I don't actually like the idea of guidelines, feels like minimum effort when yrs is testing a system of keeping people engaged with less mechanics. I'm also not a fan of the focus on material wealth.

I don't expect yrs to use any vote verbatim but some votes are seemingly going to need more extrapolation and embellishment than I expected.
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They're also really missing the point I feel. They're basically just a bullet point summary of the various reasons yrsillar told us she had for accepting Cai's offer. There's no attempt to cohere them into an actual answer. It's basically just throwing the ball back to yrsillar and going "save us".
 
[X] I follow your daughter, because she told me together we can go farther than we ever could have gone alone. And when she did, I wanted her to be right
 
[x] "Because I am a selfish, greedy girl.

I'd like to say for friendship but wre aren't friends yet. But Ling Qi is definedby her selfishness and greed, even if she's bout overly concerned with material wealth. Cai gave her the opportunity to stay with her friend. In the end that's all that matters.
 
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[X] Lady Cai's offer was the one that offered us the greatest potential for growth. She offered us a home where we could extend our roots, opportunities that would let us advance as a cultivator, an ideal that would help us grow as a person.
 
[X] Lady Cai's offer was the one that offered us the greatest potential for growth. She offered us a home where we could extend our roots, opportunities that would let us advance as a cultivator, an ideal that would help us grow as a person.
 
Switching from my own to the most closest popular vote.

[X] Lady Cai's offer was the one that offered us the greatest potential for growth. She offered us a home where we could extend our roots, opportunities that would let us advance as a cultivator, an ideal that would help us grow as a person.
 
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