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Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

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Neshuakadal said:
We are trying to brainstorm. So just throw out what you think a home domain would look like without thinking about arts or what's possible.
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A home, primarily, has at least two functions: a safe place and an exclusive place. Not everyone is invited into a home, and the owner of the home has the authority and power to exclude and force people out of the home. However, for the people who are allowed in and are welcomed in, the place should be a safe shelter, a comfort from the chaotic world outside. So, a domain based on the "home" should have these two principals.

FVM: Those who are not welcomed to the home find it difficult to approach it. It is a difficult journey filled with perils and dangers, with the path never seeming to lead to the home.

SCS: The home is hidden from prying eyes. It is privacy and the comfort in that privacy. Attempts to find the home is difficult at the best of times for those who are not welcomed.

TRF: The home is sturdy, and built from the strongest of trees. It is protection and sanctuary, unmoving in its guardianship of all who are welcomed in its midst.

AM: Lies and illusions are not needed in the Home. There is no right or wrong, merely what a person is, and the acceptance of that fact. People are free to be themselves without judgment for their decisions in the home and as such need not lie or cloud themselves in illusions.

FSS: Those who dare harm people under the Home's guardianship will find no succor where they travel. The lands south of the Wall will seem a paradise in comparison to the fury of the Home.
 
Domain aside, did anyone else find the new FVM a bit lacklustre? The low passive upgrades aside, I feel like the new technique - while the idea and 'lore' are great - is pointless: if all FVM techs stick, the fight is basically won. If the opponent couldn't dispel or resist our techs they'll drown in a sea of debuff/damage anyways. It's an overkill technique and one I don't believe we'll need anytime soon.
 
DeAnno said:
Is that really productive? There are certain Arts that are just going to go into our Domain, hell or high water. After a landslide vote in favor of AM I don't think there is any way we could keep FVM, FSS, or SCS out of the domain no matter how poorly they fit. Even Arts like PLR and TRF would have a very difficult time losing votes like this.
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I would vastly prefer TRF in our domain to SCS and FSS both. Possibly to FVM as well.
 
Waffle said:
Domain aside, did anyone else find the new FVM a bit lacklustre? The low passive upgrades aside, I feel like the new technique - while the idea and 'lore' are great - is pointless: if all FVM techs stick, the fight is basically won. If the opponent couldn't dispel or resist our techs they'll drown in a sea of debuff/damage anyways. It's an overkill technique and one I don't believe we'll need anytime soon.
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I loved the FVM upgrade. There is a couple reasons why.

First, FVM is good enough that any new technique would either not be thematic, or would classify as a "win-harder" technique. It does a steady drip of damage combined with strong debuffs and some fairly good utility aspects (+stealth and the perception check). So any improvement would always be a "win-harder" improvement.

In light of that, "Traveler's End" is entirely thematic and a potent increase in the utility of FVM. In order to get in-depth of it, here is the exact language of "Traveler's End"
yrsillar said:
Travelers End: oooo
Cost: 8 Qi
In a distant, misty valley, far from the works of mankind, a traveler completed a melody and offered it too the moon, the final notes echoing long after his last breath. This melody is but a shadow of that… but even shadows hold power. Only usable if all other Forgotten Vale Melody techniques are active. Once activated, the mist no longer fades, even if the user ceases playing. In addition, attempts to dispel any Forgotten Vale techniques must dispel Travelers End, first and separately, even if it would otherwise dispel multiple techniques. While Travelers End is active, the qi loss from Elegy is increased by two, and the damage from Dissonance becomes semi perfect.
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So, first off it can only be used once every technique of FVM is up and active. This is not that big of a deal because we want to get all of FVM's abilities up anyway, so there is no lost opportunity. Furthermore, if a person is dispelling the techniques, then it is quite possible that we are winning the fight, as seen with the River Dragon fight. Once a person realizes this, they might try to build up their defenses, or dispell the techniques. Building up their defenses is what we would want because we are crushing their defenses as fast, or faster, then they can realistically build them up.

So the other option is to dispell them. If they can't dispell them, then Traveler's End practically seals the deal. If they can dispell FVM, then it might be a race or a tug-of-war to see if we can establish the Traveler's End because once we establish Traveler's End then it becomes much more difficult for the opponent to dispell anything.

However, that is probably the weakest aspect of "Traveler's End," even if it appears to be the most memorable.

Secondly, FVM persists after we stop playing FVM. This means that we could set up another musical art that is similar to FVM in that we need to spend a lot of time setting it up. Time we couldn't spend playing FVM. It opens up a huge variety of possibilities in what we can do once FVM is set up since we don't need to devote our flute to maintaining it.

Thirdly, it fits very well with the "win-harder" mentality because it makes Dissonance and Elegy more potent. Winning harder is not a waste in battle because it creates a situation where we don't take as much damage from the fight as we otherwise might because the fight ended earlier.

So, I love "Traveler's End" and I believe that it is a potent tool in our arsenal to ensure that people can't casually dispell FVM, forcing them to deal with the full brunt of FVM, and a "win-harder" mentality that shortens fights up and helps us win harder.
 
Waffle said:
Domain aside, did anyone else find the new FVM a bit lacklustre? The low passive upgrades aside, I feel like the new technique - while the idea and 'lore' are great - is pointless: if all FVM techs stick, the fight is basically won. If the opponent couldn't dispel or resist our techs they'll drown in a sea of debuff/damage anyways. It's an overkill technique and one I don't believe we'll need anytime soon.
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It's definitely a much weaker level than FVM5 or FVM6. Or FVM4.

I believe it's because both FVM6 and FVM7 are in early green, so we were hitting the walls of what is possible at early green. The question is why the level would be at early green then, especially as it cost us more than the total of the rest of FVM, but I suspect it's in order to have the necessary foundation for a really good FVM8.

But yeah, the actual level was basically 1 dice to dispel resist as well 2 dice to Diapason and Elegy. Traveler's End is in this weird place where it's not truly usable yet. Or rather, it just doesn't compare with a lot of other things we could do. @Black Noise also has a good argument that Elegy likewise is not worth using, but I would say it's because Elegy is now really an AoE tech and not currently meant against peers, and for against groups it's sort of fine. Well... underpowered, but not awful.

EDIT: Well, Despair of the lost is actually quite good to use in a defensive battle against a peer, or for lolnoping a leader. Elegy also has its place for AoE defensive fighting.
 
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Grosstoad said:
Perception reroll-wise, interesting, because it is basically a second glance. Narratively, the user don't just depend on first impression, and also reminds her close allies about the fact.
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I like this PoV, I think i'm going to adopt it.
Hopefully that's how it'll be fluffyly implanted.
 
Something to note, we can have up to one Dot of Domain per four 'ranks' we have in our Physical/Spiritual Cultivations, rounded down, and each Dot of Domain adds three 'Domain slots' to the starting two.

So by Green Completion (14), we can have three Dots of Domain, which results in eleven Domain slots (3 * 3 + 2).

We'll probably end up Mastering more than eleven Arts that end in Green between now and then...

...

And as far as our Domain's Theme is concerned, we can, while we're still Green, choose nearly anything: remember that Sect guy we visited with the Paperwork domain? Yeah, that's how flexible this is.

And furthermore, so long as we are Green, it's easy to alter or adjust our Domain compared to doing it at any time after Green.

So by the time we finish Green we need to have decided on a coherent Domain. We have some time to do this; we aren't going to be blitzing through Green/Silver in a year, let alone three. I can see us doing it in five if we push... but maybe we shouldn't. Six or Seven years should see us having settled on a solid Domain without rushing it, and if that means making up a few Arts to fit than so be it.
 
About now I have pretty much given up on planing for a domain and can only hope the Yrs shows mercy and helps us build a really cool domain.
 
Knock it off with the pessimism. If forming a Domain was so inflexible that you need very specific arts at all steps or you fail forever, then nobody would ever rise above Green because hardly anyone will have the perfect arts for the perfect domain that fits them perfectly.

If you don't like AM's lesson and want to cast it aside, okay, that's a fair choice. In the end though, yrsillar is telling the story, and our choice of lessons to take are purely the ones he's willing to give us. If AM was utterly anathema to our character's nature as some are claiming, we wouldn't have the choice to slot it.

Nor is the Argent Sect liable to get far if their teachings are poisoned pills that forever shackle a domain. Because then nobody would countenance learning from them at that point.
 
Alectai said:
If you don't like AM's lesson and want to cast it aside, okay, that's a fair choice. In the end though, yrsillar is telling the story, and our choice of lessons to take are purely the ones he's willing to give us. If AM was utterly anathema to our character's nature as some are claiming, we wouldn't have the choice to slot it.
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There's no need to be overly pessimistic about possible outcomes of slotting arts but having the option doesn't mean yrs' suggesting we use it. Pretty sure slotting an art's dependent on mastering it, not yrs' whims.
 
I think we already have a domain as of Green+Bronze so there is no need to "form" anything, and from here on out it is a matter of developing our domain - and then eventually forming our Way.
 
Alectai said:
Knock it off with the pessimism. If forming a Domain was so inflexible that you need very specific arts at all steps or you fail forever, then nobody would ever rise above Green because hardly anyone will have the perfect arts for the perfect domain that fits them perfectly.

If you don't like AM's lesson and want to cast it aside, okay, that's a fair choice. In the end though, yrsillar is telling the story, and our choice of lessons to take are purely the ones he's willing to give us. If AM was utterly anathema to our character's nature as some are claiming, we wouldn't have the choice to slot it.

Nor is the Argent Sect liable to get far if their teachings are poisoned pills that forever shackle a domain. Because then nobody would countenance learning from them at that point.
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Salt and pessimism is my native language. :p

In all seriousness though, I trust yrs not to screw us. We haven't had a true trap option yet.
 
Alectai said:
Knock it off with the pessimism. If forming a Domain was so inflexible that you need very specific arts at all steps or you fail forever, then nobody would ever rise above Green because hardly anyone will have the perfect arts for the perfect domain that fits them perfectly.

If you don't like AM's lesson and want to cast it aside, okay, that's a fair choice. In the end though, yrsillar is telling the story, and our choice of lessons to take are purely the ones he's willing to give us. If AM was utterly anathema to our character's nature as some are claiming, we wouldn't have the choice to slot it.

Nor is the Argent Sect liable to get far if their teachings are poisoned pills that forever shackle a domain. Because then nobody would countenance learning from them at that point.
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Nobody is claiming that, you absolute liar. Knock it off with the disingenuous pity party. Throwing up your hands and implying no consequences can exist because yrsillar exists isn't honest and it isn't fair. There's a serious dialogue going on here, and I wish you'd join it in earnest instead of this.

What people have been claiming is that certain choices will make certain other choices less cohesive. This is fundamental to the nature of Domain building; it's baked into the lore and the mechanics of the setting. There are matters of degree, but ultimately it is still valid to object to AM not only on the grounds that they don't want the specific lesson incorporated into our Domain, but also that they don't feel the lesson works well with other lessons they seek. This is a real and relevant concern for any Domain choice, and I'm tired of people trying to dismiss it as pessimism or fear mongering.
 
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Arkeus said:
Traveler's End is in this weird place where it's not truly usable yet.
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The most interesting parts, I think, are:
-FVM now theoretically lasts indefinitely once raised. Its the first permanent field effect we've seen that isn't part of a Spirit or a Formation. Assuming this is not an accident, we can basically wall off sections of our territory behind Qi-draining, phantasm filled mists that can severely attrition raiders or spirit beasts below Green to pass through.

-The story of FVM continues. The Lost Traveler wandered into the mists of the forgotten vale, stalked by enemies on all sides, growing tired and confused in their solitude. Here, at the end of his journey, he composed the song and offered it to the Moon, implying he died, forgotten and alone.

But there is one final measure. This is not the end of the Traveler. Not yet
 
veekie said:
The most interesting parts, I think, are:
-FVM now theoretically lasts indefinitely once raised. Its the first permanent field effect we've seen that isn't part of a Spirit or a Formation. Assuming this is not an accident, we can basically wall off sections of our territory behind Qi-draining, phantasm filled mists that can severely attrition raiders or spirit beasts below Green to pass through.
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Pretty sure Yrs said somewhere that 'indefinitely' was meant in combat terms. It will fade away after a while, but won't be a concern during a single fight.
 
It does mean we can can hide in the mist and prep an Alpha strike with our bow, since Traveler's End allows us to put down the flute.
 
Or, if we have time and spare Qi to set it up before making contact with an approaching enemy, we can put up a field of mist as an obvious target (because why wouldn't Ling Qi be somewhere inside her oppression zone?), only to leave it and sneak around to the enemy's flank.

Then we can wait until the enemy wastes time and Qi either fruitlessly looking for us inside the mist while getting whittled down, using expensive AoE attacks to try to flush us out, or trying to dispel the mist (which takes two attempts minimum now). Then we can hit 'em in the back when the time is right.
 
Floom said:
It does mean we can can hide in the mist and prep an Alpha strike with our bow, since Traveler's End allows us to put down the flute.
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Or not, because our archery is, uh, kinda fallen behind.

Falling Star Shot has 35 dice. HC has 50 dice. Effectively 54 with SEA. Our music is overwhelmingly stronger.

If we had jumped us back during Crimson Princess Interrupt, we would have oneshot us easily.
 
So, Domains. They're kinda complicated, but here's my (100% flawlessly accurate) take.

Whether or not we slot AM into our Domain, we've understood the Art's philosophy to the degree of mastery. That is intrinsically what it is to cultivate and master an Art, without exception and with no escape. The realization we're choosing now isn't in regards to the Art, not really a measure of our comprehension of the Art's lessons, it is in regards to Ling Qi herself. It is whether she realizes the lesson of the Art as being fundamentally core to her own being or not. It's a choice of how Ling Qi defines herself and is defined by the natural laws of the world.

The Mirror is clear, revealing all deceptions, including those of the self. Yet this is no matter of virtue or vice, only an understanding of the self. Whether following reason or passion, one must face forward and acknowledge the truth of their choices, without deception.
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Being defined by an antipathy to deception, including to oneself, is a step further than most people seem interested in as far as a lesson of self-knowledge is concerned for Ling Qi. The question isn't whether Ling Qi understands The Mirror, the question is whether Ling Qi is The Mirror. That's what it means to add a lesson to one's Domain. The philosophy or teaching or lesson becomes a fundamental component to the cultivator.

I'm not convinced it's a great choice considering the obscuring themes core to Ling Qi's lunar patrons and more central Arts. Grinning Moon is mischief done in the night, out of sight, even the more contemporary take of exposing the misdeeds of others using hidden means. Hidden Moon concerns itself with hidden secrets and truths, not revelation. SCS is shadow, the unseen, the void. FVM is mystery and hidden danger, deception and illusion. PLR is a frenetic illusory chaos of colours and sound and movement which obscure the user and confound their foes.

AM's realization isn't wholly incompatible with all of those, but it likely can't be anything but a more complicated fit. This naturally means a narrowing of other, yet unseen, options. My preference is passing on this truth so that we can be more open to others as we walk further down our Path. We are early on in our career and I'd like to keep more doors open, especially since we still have a lot to learn about the shape of the challenges that confront us in this world. So now in a slightly ironic move, I'll be honest with myself and vote for what I really want.

[X] Discard this realization

Floom said:
It does mean we can can hide in the mist and prep an Alpha strike with our bow, since Traveler's End allows us to put down the flute.
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Sadly impossible. Traveller's End requires the rest of the techniques to be active, and @yrsillar has previously ruled that at least Diapason and Elegy require at least one target to be within range to even use. I forget if Dissonance did too. Regardless, it's not possible to set up the Art 'safely' in absence of opposition. The fight must be started and the enemy must be in range for the required techniques to be applied.
 
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