- Location
- scrabbling
'things like this' being...what exactly? nasty things in general? lying? sneaking? betrayal?
Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Fantasy
Black Noise
Curious
- Location
- About 1AU from Sol
Some less serious observations from this chapter:
> "Liming's presence bolsters their lesser kin"
Well that explains why CRX is flying all over the place despite it costing us 5 Qi/turn. She has discount flight. What is worrying is that Liling can keep up without an artificial spirit.
-------
Now the heavy part, what Cai tells us about herself:
> CRX is uncomfortable enough talking about it that she's showing visible tells.
> Didn't she meet her mom at age 6?
> "fitted me to Liming", considering that Shenhua makes artificial spirits... Kinda ominous implications there.
> "weaving she intends to be" - what Shenhua plans to ascend as?
> CRX thinks her mom might "bring ruin" when (not if) she grows bored
> She knows she thinks this way because that's how Shenhua shaped her to be. Hard to parse what this means at this point. We'd need at least another interlude from her PoV to tell.
This is also why I don't think this is a some deeper move on Cai's part. Just her showing trust in the only way she knows.
What a ride.
- EPC roll was above average. We're 42 xp short assuming we get full xp from the tower. Still pretty much no chance to get it done in 1 action.
- Scrubs have low spiritual defense, and it looks like the meridian cap is real. This probably means we'll be seeing dedicated spiritual defense from peers+ as a matter of course, but we're probably gonna keep dominating weaker opponents even in large groups. Nothing really surprising here.
- GG is Bronze/Yellow. Considering he started as a commoner, he's got some good talent to reach this level already. Character-wise, it does seem like he's self-aware about how he comes across, but seems to embrace it? Might see the world in black/white though.
I see a bright future for the Ma Sisters. One of them is a musician right? Well Zeqing showed us how to properly inspire that type of cultivation.
- CRX is gonna ask us once we're fully Bronze. (if the current vote doesn't break things)
Politics 4 at work.
So our robe has literal wings of shadow. This is good.
> "Liming's presence bolsters their lesser kin"
Well that explains why CRX is flying all over the place despite it costing us 5 Qi/turn. She has discount flight. What is worrying is that Liling can keep up without an artificial spirit.
- There are only 3 others like Liming, Shenhua, the Empress, and a 3d (Shenhua's lover?). I'm guessing Liming will grow more powerful along with CRX.
TREE CITY that's HIGH UP. Very wood/wind. Zhengui might fit even.
For reference, Meizhen was awakened at 8. And she wasn't brought up so high that a mortal would suffocate either. CRX confirmed for maximum trauma I guess
CRX takes her tea seriously it seems. We're gonna get culture beaten into us one way or another.
I wonder if Liming is sentient or if it's just reading the mood off of CRX. Could be a useful tell off an otherwise perfect poker face if it's the latter.
-------
Now the heavy part, what Cai tells us about herself:
Few things:
> CRX is uncomfortable enough talking about it that she's showing visible tells.
> Didn't she meet her mom at age 6?
> "fitted me to Liming", considering that Shenhua makes artificial spirits... Kinda ominous implications there.
Another heavy paragraph:
> "weaving she intends to be" - what Shenhua plans to ascend as?
> CRX thinks her mom might "bring ruin" when (not if) she grows bored
> She knows she thinks this way because that's how Shenhua shaped her to be. Hard to parse what this means at this point. We'd need at least another interlude from her PoV to tell.
This is what I mean when I say CRX has a very inhuman response. Normal humans don't go from cordial work relationships to MAXIMUM TRUST level of privileged information.
This is also why I don't think this is a some deeper move on Cai's part. Just her showing trust in the only way she knows.
What a ride.
- Location
- Fabulously Rainbow Ireland
We're an enforcer for her, on her council, have stood by her through a lot of shit and have even gotten a job offer from her.
This isn't "shooting our mouth off to random people" this is confessing to our potential future boss. How the heck are you coming to the conclusion she'll see it as a negative?
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So, I just had a thought.
If we confess, will Cai want to ask us to swear to her? Like, she's not going to be happy with us. I could easily see her putting things off further in order to feel better and see if we're serious about not doing shit like this anymore.
And that suddenly makes all our other career options much more competitive. We have time to get to know Tai. We aren't having to decide on Cai way before the Sect...
If we had the make the decision at the beginning of next year or something, things would be a lot more interesting.
Good idea or best idea? @yrsillar? Is this your brilliant plan?
If we confess, will Cai want to ask us to swear to her? Like, she's not going to be happy with us. I could easily see her putting things off further in order to feel better and see if we're serious about not doing shit like this anymore.
And that suddenly makes all our other career options much more competitive. We have time to get to know Tai. We aren't having to decide on Cai way before the Sect...
If we had the make the decision at the beginning of next year or something, things would be a lot more interesting.
Good idea or best idea? @yrsillar? Is this your brilliant plan?
TheLastOne
Person of impeccable tastes (for destruction)
Things like this, that leave her feeling like this.
- Location
- United States of America
There is a ton of difference between what you believe we would be doing "simply gathering intelligence" and what wiretapping is. Wiretapping goes through a neutral third party to determine whether the wiretapping is needed and allowable, and that neutral third party gives the clearance for said wiretapping. This third party would be the judicial branch of the American Government.
What you believe we would be doing, on the other hand, is directly gathering information on the orders of a single party, nominally the executive branch, without any checks or balances to determine whether said information gathering is needed or warranted. The closest analogy to this in Modern America would be when President Nixon ordered the wiretapping of his political opponents. Otherwise known as Watergate, where the only reason he wasn't impeached after getting caught and trying to cover it up was that he resigned from the presidency. Normal wiretapping doesn't get on the highway to being impeached in the modern American justice system.
As for the gradient argument, I agree that there is a difference between gathering information and framing for a job they didn't commit. That argument, however, entirely leans on the assumption that Lady Cai will only be having us do information gathering, which the evidence of that seems to be sorely lacking. We already know that she is perfectly fine with us sabotaging and ruining the lives of people she considers her enemies. We already know she is fine with using blackmail to get people to agree to her demands and agenda. To say that she would only have us gather information from political opponents is unsubstantiated by what she has ordered us to do and what she has allowed.
Furthermore, there is literally no point in gathering information just to gather information. Information is useless unless it is used. If we gather information on a political opponent of hers, that information will be used. It will be used to arrange a scandal, it will be used to have just cause to imprison, and it will be used to blackmail them into supporting her (and lets all be honest here, she will need all the support she can get in order to make any headway against her mother's regime).
I personally feel that she will also have us directly sabotage her opposition. She is not strong enough to simply steamroll everybody like her mother was able to do, so she will need to be more flexible in how she gets rid of her staunchest enemies. If there is no blackmail to be had on them, no scandal to draw attention to, no crime they had committed to justify imprisonment, then I feel that Cai will use us to frame them for something they didn't do. In that way, she creates the scandal and the justification to imprison them.
To say she wouldn't do that is to underestimate how far she is willing to go in order to get the power needed to make her "order." If she can't have what she wants through sheer force of strength, then I firmly believe that she will use us to get it.
Gan is a growing boy who hit his Bronze growth spurt. Wait till he hits Steel and is 7 feet tall.
Edit:
Also wait, didn't Cai already have us steal shit from a neutral party to sway them to her side? Like, that's some Cold War CIA shit. Again, if you invite Catwoman to the Justice League you can't be surprised she stole shit.
Double Edit: Nope that was Fu Xiang! How much CRX knows about that is ambiguous.
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And none of those checks and balances exist here. Or are even considered to be desirable. I mean, that isn't a good thing, but it is what it is. And this isn't even necessarily a problem for justice - look at how much people complain when the "rules" get in the way of "bad" people being punished. Someone who believes in justice could absolutely see such barriers as undesirable.
Wiretapping absolutely involves invading privacy in a way that would be illegal for normal people. It is considered "acceptable" (by some) if authorised by the appropriate authorities. The same as would be the case here.
I agree that we don't really know what exactly Cai will want us to do. I would argue though that your assumption that if she's fine with gathering blackmail for politics and sabotaging enemies in a wargame that she will also be fine with us sabotaging political opponents working within the law in the same way. That's a huge leap.
Of course she would use the intel. Revealing a scandal is hardly unjust. Negotiating with someone to keep politically awkward yet non-criminal information secret is also not really unjust. Neither is using illicitly gathered information to bring someone to justice.
And this is what I disagree with. No. I do not think Cai would do this. This goes completely against her stated ideals, and everything we have seen or been told about her says that yes, she really is exactly what she appears to be. She isn't secretly corrupt. She really does believe what she says and acts accordingly.
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- Location
- Canada
[X] Remain silent, thank her sincerely for her trust.
- Location
- Brazil
Forgot to comment with all the heavy CRX content, but this cements my determination to get FSA+.
The versatility seems more and more worth it as we go up.
[X] Admit to the deception about the market, apologize.
One trust deserves another. Even if our "trust" is more of a poison pill to her worldview.
I dunno if this is some test for us because she knows or suspects, but it definetly should be OUR test for HER.
She has repeatedly stated her pure ideals of order and justice, but we never have seen how she deals with the messy real world, where her subordinates have minds and plans of their own, and take actions that may help her but certainly benefit themselves more. Actions that may square with her ideals. Actions that are exactly what we would likely have to do and keep doing repeatedly in our presumed job as her left hidden hand.
Today is the day when we find out if we really can work together. Will she rule our actions unacceptable? Will she just not want to know what her spooks do?
One trust deserves another. Even if our "trust" is more of a poison pill to her worldview.
I dunno if this is some test for us because she knows or suspects, but it definetly should be OUR test for HER.
She has repeatedly stated her pure ideals of order and justice, but we never have seen how she deals with the messy real world, where her subordinates have minds and plans of their own, and take actions that may help her but certainly benefit themselves more. Actions that may square with her ideals. Actions that are exactly what we would likely have to do and keep doing repeatedly in our presumed job as her left hidden hand.
Today is the day when we find out if we really can work together. Will she rule our actions unacceptable? Will she just not want to know what her spooks do?
- Location
- Cyberspace
Now, I will say there's a response to a confession that I didn't think of that could be interesting and perhaps actually improve the Ling Qi/Cai Renxiang relationship. Something like:
Cai Renxiang: (stills) "Why did you tell me this?"
Ling Qi: "Because I want to know if this is the kind of thing you'd be asking me to do."
Cai Renxiang: "... No."
Ling Qi: "Good."
I don't think it that likely - hell, I just don't know how Cai Renxiang would react, and how Ling Qi would react in turn - or even how Ling Qi would bring up the topic, etc etc. Again, back to one of the reasons why I dislike this kind of vote, the easily disconnect between what a QM has planned for the expression of a given vote and what the voters think they have planned.
But that could be an interesting way it could go.
Still firmly:
[X] Remain silent, thank her sincerely for her trust.
Cai Renxiang: (stills) "Why did you tell me this?"
Ling Qi: "Because I want to know if this is the kind of thing you'd be asking me to do."
Cai Renxiang: "... No."
Ling Qi: "Good."
I don't think it that likely - hell, I just don't know how Cai Renxiang would react, and how Ling Qi would react in turn - or even how Ling Qi would bring up the topic, etc etc. Again, back to one of the reasons why I dislike this kind of vote, the easily disconnect between what a QM has planned for the expression of a given vote and what the voters think they have planned.
But that could be an interesting way it could go.
Still firmly:
[X] Remain silent, thank her sincerely for her trust.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Yeah, that's basically--IMO, the best possible outcome to that.
I don't see it going that nicely, but holy shit would bit be nice if that's how it gets resolved.
But yeah, this is basically an ugly situation all around. We could have just not repaid him--but that would mean he'd have no real reason to help us out either--and at the very least, we wouldn't be able to track Renshu using him. We could have half-assed it, but the chances of that really sailed when nobody was willing to get it out of the way early.
I don't see it going that nicely, but holy shit would bit be nice if that's how it gets resolved.
But yeah, this is basically an ugly situation all around. We could have just not repaid him--but that would mean he'd have no real reason to help us out either--and at the very least, we wouldn't be able to track Renshu using him. We could have half-assed it, but the chances of that really sailed when nobody was willing to get it out of the way early.
Black Noise
Curious
- Location
- About 1AU from Sol
... You're basically ignoring the part where much of the reason scrubs have no spiritual defense means that peers will have less of it than physical defense.
More to the point, the only role in our tournament-time art lineup FSA+ might serve is high damage physical offense.
Considering that we're learning a rather high damage spiritual offense art from the Spirit that embodies its themes, one that aligns with our talent and specialty in music no less, that role is firmly taken by a superior option.
Like, I'm not saying we shouldn't get FSA+ eventually, but it's prospects for pre-tournament aren't looking good, and the role I'd want it to serve would be something like mid-long range kiting/softening up plus a maximum damage burst if FSS or AC don't provide one.
- Location
- Staring into the void
Spiritual damage is hard to counter, and only the most talented can even make a token defence. So you want to boost our physical damage instead?
- Location
- Not Telling
[X] Admit to the deception about the market, apologize.
Let's see how our boss reaction, and probably upped or relationship. Or burn it altogether.
Let's see how our boss reaction, and probably upped or relationship. Or burn it altogether.
- Location
- California
[X] Remain silent, thank her sincerely for her trust.
Still don't like CRX enough to throw Ling Qi at her justice.
Still don't like CRX enough to throw Ling Qi at her justice.
- Location
- Brazil
What we've learned is that, for the vast majority of people, there's an enormous opportunity cost.
The Cloud Tribes are the Big Bads of Emerald Seas, and they swing wildly in their cultivation. They are full tilt on either spiritual or physical.
Spirits are also clearly focused.
And that, even for the 1%, as we well know, it's not something trivially done. Extra defenses come at the expense of less passives, less counters, less utility.
In any case, due our great talent and finding some synergistic arts already, it doesn't take much effort at all to be competitive in archery. Not only that, but it fills a niche ou music doesn't, and it goes extremely well with a debuffer build, as we naturally need less resources to up our numbers if we can just bring their's down.
There's always going to be a weak spot.
And exploiting that is how we avoid ever losing.
TL;DR: Being able to geek the Mage and blast the Fighter is how you avoid getting geeked by a better Fighter or blasted by a better Mage. You make their job harder and yours far easier.
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Black Noise
Curious
- Location
- About 1AU from Sol
Except your own argument means we'd be better off doing something like going full spiritual offense with both debuffs and high damage attacks.
People must invest in physical defense since that's what most use, and as a result their spiritual defense won't be as complete.
The niche archery is filling now is 3 things:
1. "things more than 80m away"
2. "we can set and ambush and get a free hit from stealth, might as well make it a nuke"
3. "opponent is all nice and debuffed, might as well finish them off with one hit"
2 is arguably on track for replacement. We can use HC without setting up Aria and while FSS (the tech) is stronger, HC both has higher dice and confers a 4 die debuff to all clashes. 3 goes for a similar reason.
Only 1, range, remains a strength we can't replicate with music as we are now.
Well, that's not fully true, archery has trick arrows going for it and those can provide unmatched versatility. The problem is though, we'd need to invest in that instead of FSA+, and there's nothing preventing us from having "trick knives" or "trick minion constructs".
Which includes everyone we are going to fight. Explicitly, spiritual is only a weakpoint for scrubs, not anyone at our tier.
Are you not planning on using our debuffs?
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- Location
- Staring into the void
They will still be equipped with more physical defence than spiritual. I like the versatility of having both options, but there is not enough time between now and the tourney to do both.
notanautomaton
I've got 99 quests, I've finished one
The Cloud Tribes and spirits are almost certainly able to defend against both types of attack as well as an Imperial Cultivator. Otherwise they would be incredibly vulnerable to getting hit with basic rock-paper-scissors against any opponent that can afford even the least amounts of specialization. Like, you know, the Empire.
And remember that opportunity cost still exists for us. If we spend time working on an Archery Art, that's time we're not improving our defenses, perception, stealth, movement and spiritual attacks.
... But if Physical Defense=Spiritual Defense in peer opponents, then that means that it's significantly better to choose one rather than try to do both. If an enemy has both their defenses at 5 (arbitrary number), then attacking one with 10 is better than being able to attack either at 5.
- Location
- Brazil
Except it's much easier for us to train up wind+imperial spine archery than for them to train up anything else.
Point is, high level opponents can heavily spec against a single style. If we are getting a reputation for "spiritualist", I'd love to see their faces when we OTK them with a big nuke Art through stealth bonuses.
If we are full-on one side, they can simply swap their defenses that usually guard the side we can't do anything against for the one we focus on.
Forcing them to be average at both of leave a big glowing spot we can hit for massive damage is quite amazing.
If they don't know, we've already halfway won.
They usually have their super familiars and small things like blood sacrifice to get around that.
Point is, high level opponents can heavily spec against a single style. If we are getting a reputation for "spiritualist", I'd love to see their faces when we OTK them with a big nuke Art through stealth bonuses.
If we are full-on one side, they can simply swap their defenses that usually guard the side we can't do anything against for the one we focus on.
Forcing them to be average at both of leave a big glowing spot we can hit for massive damage is quite amazing.
If they don't know, we've already halfway won.
But... That's more or less exactly what happens?
They usually have their super familiars and small things like blood sacrifice to get around that.
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