We already have that with FVM don't we?
Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Fantasy
But our pointless arguments!
As always, people in the thread like to ignore Ling Qi personnal feeling on the matter, because roleplaying is evil.
Ling Qi filial piety is pretty much non existent. She didn't trust her mom as a kid (otherwise she would have trusted her mom rather than run away), and don't care for her anymore now. Ling Qi has multiple shown concern for her friends outside of minors. I didn't see her thinking about her mom a single time outside of the letters.
Besode mom feeling about the matter are irrellevant because she doesn't know Cai, she is not a cultivator and don't know Ling Qi well enough to give any information.
Ling Qi filial piety is pretty much non existent. She didn't trust her mom as a kid (otherwise she would have trusted her mom rather than run away), and don't care for her anymore now. Ling Qi has multiple shown concern for her friends outside of minors. I didn't see her thinking about her mom a single time outside of the letters.
Besode mom feeling about the matter are irrellevant because she doesn't know Cai, she is not a cultivator and don't know Ling Qi well enough to give any information.
- Location
- United States of America
Add to th
OK this is getting annoying , I feel like either I'm not getting my point across right or people are ignoring what I'm actually saying just reading "HE DOESN'T WANT US TO VASSAL TO GLORIOUS UVERLORD CAI, HE WANTS US TO ASK PERMISSION FROM MOM, HE WANTS US TO NO BE GREEN REEEEEEEE!"
When I'm not saying any of that
If we were as you say actually role playing then you'd be completely wrong. Was ling qi mad at her mom at the beginning of quest? Yes. But as the story has progressed we see things aren't as black and white as they might have seemed and ling qi herself admitted in the last chapter that she is gonna have to rethink some of her opinions as well.
We know ling qi still cared for her mom in the beginning because she felt GUILTY when she saw her mom's health condition when she saw her again. You don't feel guilty for someone you fully hate.
And her situation is far more complex then your making it out to be.
She didn't run away because she didn't fully trust her mom, she ran away because she believed herself to being groomed to be a prostitute like her mother. Something a 9 year old would absofuckinglutely be terrified of, especially from seeing how much harm can come to them from clients (her mom literally being raped by the pedo noble dude who was trying to buy her)
So yes, she decided she would rather risk a life as a street urchin then a prostitute. Luckily while her time as a street urchin wasn't by any notion easy, it definitely was not as grim dark as it could have been in a setting where mortal lives can be cheap. (Thank you QM )
Now to get to the point. I am advocating speaking to her mother because
1: character growth. Ling qi is becoming an adult and realising the world is far more complicated then the sandbox she grew up in. Her mom may not have been a great person or even a moral person but she certainly was not a bad person.
We see from the last chapter that while she may have been grooming ling qi to be a concubine to a rich noble, she certainly wasn't going to let someone touch her 9 year old (or younger) daughter and convinced the client to go after her own self. She could have easily said "do whatever just give me money" if she didnt care or just wanted influence.
2-We have a bunch of friends with momma issues as well and it could help to speak of it with them (in the future of course). And would make for interesting dialog etc, also considering that her mother is mortal and WILL die while ling qi is still relatively young as an immortal this can help create more interesting dialog and world building, (how do cultivators handle the death of those around them, family members with low talent who will perish , etc )
As for the vassal thing. NO , we do not need or require our mothers permission to do whatever the he'll we want, whether its to swear to cai, bai , dance around naked under the moonlight etc.
However, there is a vast difference between asking for permission and just giving a heads up because our mothers life Is going to change. So is our sisters, doubly so if she has any talent.
Secondly , if you literally cannot see all the plot bunnies and hidden background stuff that's been hammered into our heads since the start then Idk what to tell you. We need to find out who our dad is, why we have this weird affinity with spirits and the visions etc. Ling qi is the hidden bloodline protagonist trope.
It would be nice to get some of those questions out of the way before we swear to cai, if we can't so be it. Someone pointed out vassals can leave , and that's a fair point.
And lastly I have no idea where the hold off b4 breaking into green argument came from as I never once said that ?
That is all.
OK this is getting annoying , I feel like either I'm not getting my point across right or people are ignoring what I'm actually saying just reading "HE DOESN'T WANT US TO VASSAL TO GLORIOUS UVERLORD CAI, HE WANTS US TO ASK PERMISSION FROM MOM, HE WANTS US TO NO BE GREEN REEEEEEEE!"
When I'm not saying any of that
If we were as you say actually role playing then you'd be completely wrong. Was ling qi mad at her mom at the beginning of quest? Yes. But as the story has progressed we see things aren't as black and white as they might have seemed and ling qi herself admitted in the last chapter that she is gonna have to rethink some of her opinions as well.
We know ling qi still cared for her mom in the beginning because she felt GUILTY when she saw her mom's health condition when she saw her again. You don't feel guilty for someone you fully hate.
And her situation is far more complex then your making it out to be.
She didn't run away because she didn't fully trust her mom, she ran away because she believed herself to being groomed to be a prostitute like her mother. Something a 9 year old would absofuckinglutely be terrified of, especially from seeing how much harm can come to them from clients (her mom literally being raped by the pedo noble dude who was trying to buy her)
So yes, she decided she would rather risk a life as a street urchin then a prostitute. Luckily while her time as a street urchin wasn't by any notion easy, it definitely was not as grim dark as it could have been in a setting where mortal lives can be cheap. (Thank you QM )
Now to get to the point. I am advocating speaking to her mother because
1: character growth. Ling qi is becoming an adult and realising the world is far more complicated then the sandbox she grew up in. Her mom may not have been a great person or even a moral person but she certainly was not a bad person.
We see from the last chapter that while she may have been grooming ling qi to be a concubine to a rich noble, she certainly wasn't going to let someone touch her 9 year old (or younger) daughter and convinced the client to go after her own self. She could have easily said "do whatever just give me money" if she didnt care or just wanted influence.
2-We have a bunch of friends with momma issues as well and it could help to speak of it with them (in the future of course). And would make for interesting dialog etc, also considering that her mother is mortal and WILL die while ling qi is still relatively young as an immortal this can help create more interesting dialog and world building, (how do cultivators handle the death of those around them, family members with low talent who will perish , etc )
As for the vassal thing. NO , we do not need or require our mothers permission to do whatever the he'll we want, whether its to swear to cai, bai , dance around naked under the moonlight etc.
However, there is a vast difference between asking for permission and just giving a heads up because our mothers life Is going to change. So is our sisters, doubly so if she has any talent.
Secondly , if you literally cannot see all the plot bunnies and hidden background stuff that's been hammered into our heads since the start then Idk what to tell you. We need to find out who our dad is, why we have this weird affinity with spirits and the visions etc. Ling qi is the hidden bloodline protagonist trope.
It would be nice to get some of those questions out of the way before we swear to cai, if we can't so be it. Someone pointed out vassals can leave , and that's a fair point.
And lastly I have no idea where the hold off b4 breaking into green argument came from as I never once said that ?
That is all.
I think, we should focus on training and talk with Cai's other subordinates for now. both her 'lieutenants' and some of the rank and file.
- Location
- The Temple of the Winds
I doubt she has much of anything relevant to say besides generalities like "nobles are dangerous".
Remember that she is quite young, even assuming she is fallen noble, i doubt she even hit adulthood before having Ling Qi (assuming she got "fallen" from that) and getting out of nobility.
I mean, over the handful of letter to mom actions, what did we got out of it ? "you have a sister" and a pretty comb. Sure worldbuilding and character's past is nice and all, but it's eating into useful stuff we could be doing instead like formations or finally taking a look at the library...
It got him as far as being the Founder of the greatest nation ever ? A nation that still stands centuries latter and in face of opposition from all sides ?
Filial piety king of is a cultural thing. Respect for it is a huge thing in wuxia (and chinese culture).
Heck, it's one of the few (if not the only) thing that can, from time to time, hold a wuxia protag back!
What futher amuses me is that "normally" a stealth focused characted like this should be rather weak in combat (rogue/scout) or maybe just decent in 1vs1 (assassination), Ling Qi on the other hand is great at tanking and group battle.
Talk about getting your opposition wrong-footed!
Also: those pills aren't unique. Yan renshou had two un-used as an Outter disciple, pretty sure a Inner will have access to more and/or better resources.
What does talking to the rank and file or other subordinates than Gan actually provide that actually talking to Cai or Gan would not? We shouldn't keep creeping around this issue, we should go straight at Cai and spend a minor with her for a few weeks to see if we can get along and stop running in circles.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
It tells us what she's like to people she isn't trying to court for her own purposes, which is going to be important to decide whether we think she'll actually be a good overlord or not.
- Location
- scrabbling
I imagine there's definitely something that lets you steal a use of a technique or steal the qi that would power the technique or something. Which would be rad as hell but Ling Qi doesn't have any arts that help her steal stuff she normally couldn't steal. Just arts that make her better at stealing what she can already steal.
More reason to find that art that would allow stealing from storage rings that Ling Qi posited a while ago.
I don't know if it's 'levels of arts including at least one meridian of this element' or 'levels of arts after you gained that element', or if Ling Qi actually has enough levels in FVM to proc a Music element breakthrough mastery. She missed out on Water for her Yellow after all, though FVM wasn't maxed then. I'm also sure Green's requirements for a mastery are steeper.
So I'd really like to make sure that Ling Qi gets a Music mastery by grabbing some levels in another second-realm music art...
I am not even in favor of being Cai vassal.
Yes, you do. Human are empathic beings. Beside there is a difference between full hate and not trusting her mother.
Ling Qi doesnt trust her mother. She didnt even try to know wether her mother was grooming her as a prostitute or not. She ran out immediately. Ling Qi didnt trust her visibly.
Lastly you are making meta arguments when I am talking about roleplay. This is exactly what I was arguing against.
- Location
- Cyberspace
As I understand it, the goal was to have broken through by Week 40, giving 12 weeks to firm things up and get a couple arts up into Green/Bronze territory. The areas that needed to be ready:
1. Spirit - this is ready to go, being at peak (180/180).
2. Physique - this has a lot of successes to go (34/180).
3. Meridians - this is possibly ready to go (21/?)*.
4. Qi - this is possibly ready to go (68/?)**.
5. Cultivation Arts - almost ready to go (Argent Soul 5/5, Eight Phase Ceremony 3/4+).
5. Combat Arts - this is probably not quite ready to go (various/?)***.
So what's left? EPC, physique, perhaps a few meridians, perhaps some more qi, and some Combat Arts. Let's say Ling Qi starts Spiritual breakthrough at week 39 and starts Physical breakthrough at week 40 - so the goal is to have everything ready by the end of week 38 (so after this week, there's 6 weeks to prepare). She can probably play a bit with the rolls, but not sure if there's really that much benefit in doing so****.
EPC needs... hmmm... well, it might finish this week. Stealth/Larceny successes are aimed at it - I would assume a Stealth roll used at some point for the job - and there's a proper action as well. If it doesn't, it'll definitely complete next week. So that's five or six weeks of 0-25 successes going to Abyssal Exhalation, Fleeting Zephyr or Physique (call it... 100 successes; 77 might be enough to put Fleeting Zephyr at level 4/5). Eight weeks of +5 to an Argent Art means +40 successes to Argent Current or Argent Storm. A week of Highsun + Sable Light focused on meridians would give some Physique from the roll and overflow (call it 50 successes) and some Qi from the bonus rolls and from the meadow (EPC this week, Falling Stars in the future) (call it +5 qi). An Eightfold Path pill gives another meridian (and quite a few bonus dice).
And that's putting aside actions. Call it five meridian actions, eighteen-ish Art actions... I mean, plans do change, but I think Ling Qi can finish breaking through by the end of week 40 with a solid foundation. Especially if she uses the pills she has and invests in tutoring along with jobs that allow her to exercise Larceny and Stealth to their fullest.
* Meridian count for maximal bonus is unknown. On the flip side, meridians impact the physical breakthrough, which could probably lag a week or two behind the spiritual breakthrough without impacting the cultivating advantages of hitting the next realm very much at all.
** Qi count for maximal bonus is unknown. Best guideline is Bai Meizhen's "at the very least this much" (which calculated to a bit under 60).
*** This category is more or less "more is better", with the proviso that lots of similar arts, or arts that are of insufficient level of power or complexity, don't really offer much here. Ling Qi's got a good count of 23 levels (not counting Zephyr's Breath's 3 levels) across a pretty reasonable range of elements (although Darkness is still disturbingly dominant):
Darkness: 13, Water: 6, Music: 5, Wind: 4, Lake: 4, Mountain: 4, Wood: 3, Heaven: 3, Fire: 1, Earth: 1
Yin: 12, Yang: 6, Balanced: 5
**** Well, kinda. For example, she could go for the first Spiritual breakthrough roll, say... next week. It distracts from another cultivation action, but if it succeeds it makes the final push easier, and if it fails then Spirit progress can be restored with overflow and the use of medicines that give Spirit rolls or successes, such as Skyblood Elixir or The Black Pool. The latter is going to be used during the next six weeks anyway to work on Abyssal Exhalation and Argent Current, after all...
Kai Merah
Hound Hearted Hedonist
- Location
- Somewhere in the corners of my imagination
I honestly don't care how good an overlord she is. What matters to me, is her personal relationship to Ling Qi. As an example. Satsuki treats her minions as disposable cannon fodder (because they are), but she values her elite four. She also has slightly different personal relationships with her elite four, but the important thing is, they all have personal relationships with her.
I see worth in talking to actually valuable minions like Gan Guangli, because that's the sort of relationship we're getting, but more important is the personal relationship we develop with Renxiang. I don't consider trash minions remotely worth talking to, in terms of our decision to follow Cai or not. They're too personally far from her to have any worthwhile insight.
- Location
- scrabbling
What's wrong with that? Do you not like the trait of 'wanting' things? Or some other aspect of Darkness? I think Ling Qi has tempered her core of Darkness enough already—she's far from Zeqing, for an example of Darkness too far.
Arkeus
Crazy cat guy
- Location
- France
It's sadly somewhat unlikely for us to be able to get another music art before breakthrough. We might get one from Zeqing, which would be awesome considering it should roughly be as strong as a 3rd floor archive art, so would means not having to get the points there. It does mean not picking one up in specific when we do, though.
Sect points wise, we can easily do a weekly tutor week for weeks 33 and weeks 34, assuming we take eightfold week 34 and not 33 (so we do a mission week 33). This should put us, end of week 34, at around 10-20 sect points. Assuming we stop chaining tutors for a bit and instead do missions for stealth and larceny experience as well as saving points, we could have over 50 sects points week 37.
So, technically, even if we do not get a music art from Zeqing we could instead pick one up in the archive week 37 and train its first level. It wouldn't be worth it to actually equip it before breakthrough, obviously (we would break through the following week), but it should help out a tiny bit for breakthrough purposes if we learn it.
It's important to have two other elements vying with Darkness, so that we can more easily balance it out if needed. Our current plans would get us a minimum of 5 wind meridians for example (and maybe up to 7) before breakthrough.
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When it comes down to it how Cai treats her foot soldiers is a part of her, but it's not nearly as important as seeing more Cai and Ling Qi interactions and if they can run smoothly. There is no amount of hanging out with the enforcers that will show us as much as a single minor action with Cai herself.
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My mistake due to talking about the two characters elsewhere, but my point still stands. How Cai treats foot soldiers that will probably never see her again once she is Inner Sect is much less informative than actually spending time with her. We can't keep hanging around the edges on such an important decision. Better to spend multiple actions with her total rather than one with her and one with other council members talking about her and one with the enforcers.
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There is a hidden assumption here that a Music element art would be available at the archive. One that's really isn't supported by the story. Remember that Ling Qi only had that specific breakthrough because of Zeqing? If you want to get another Music element art then asking Zeqing or studying under her is the way to go.
Also, chasing after literally every breakthrough bonus while languishing in the current realm is kinda silly. Pick a few easily reachable ones (darkness wind and possibly water) and be done with it. Do you really think that Ling Qi would get Mountain or Lake bonuses? Focus on what she can reasonably reach with her time constraints (and of course if EPC gives a virtual green stone than the drive to reach green to start using the big boost it gives becomes that much stronger).
Arkeus
Crazy cat guy
- Location
- France
The assumption is that there would be music arts in the archive. "Music element" is something that Ling Qi herself has added to FVM, and is something she can add to any other musical art. For example, our flute works for "music based arts clashes", and 'music based arts' don't need a music meridian by default... but one can be added to them.
flute said:
Huh, it's certain that Ling Qi will get Mountain and Lake bonus. Those we know she will get are Darkness, Water, Mountain, Lake. We are currently chasing after Wind and Wood, and hoping the rest of our arts can trigger other bonus.... but those are less certain.
Anyway, what I am saying is we can spend a single action a music art. It's not 'chasing after literally every breakthrough bonus', it's "spend one action to increase our chance to get a bonus to our core speciality". Music is not 'random bonus', here, but core to Ling Qi's ability.
She created that solely because of Zeqing interaction. It's not that other arts with that element don't exist, but I heavily doubt tbat Ling Qi will find them in the first floor archive. Remember all those bonuses that even one meridian attuned to music gave to Ling? It's not gonna be found in the first floor archive and possibly not in the archive at all due to it's status of being born by enlightenment).
Ling Qi certainly wont get Mountain and Lake bonuses. She didn't get water despite having FVM at the last breakthrough so why would she get those? If you want those bonuses then just having one art isn't nearly enough (especially if it's split like Argent Mirror is). It's why the only elements that look achievable are wind (mono and split art), darkness and possibly water (two split arts, though water is lagging far behind. It's possible that even with AC maxed it still wouldn't be enough).
Music is important, but Ling is unlikely to find another music element art without Zeqing's help.
Ling Qi has also noticed that she is and was too narrow minded, especially back then, and now realised that looking back it seems she was wrong. Her mother was protecting her, at cost to her own body, and was spending her time and resources giving Ling Qi education not necessary for a prostitute. In other words, Ling Qi was wrong about her, and she realises this.
She still thinks running away was right for her, which it seems so, particularly as her mother's intentions and actions aren't really likely to have been enough protection against her being forced into prostitution. BUT, she acknowledges that her mother wasn't trying to force her into it, and had been doing her best to give her a better future.
She is also trying to reconnect with her mother.
Arkeus
Crazy cat guy
- Location
- France
We don't need an art with the music element, we need a musical art. Ling Qi herself can then add the music element to said art, like she did to FVM. FVM doesn't have the music element, either.
We have been told by Yrsillar before that "arts like FSA" would give us breakthrough bonus on being mastered. We hadn't mastered FVM to the cap of our cultivation then, we broke through before getting FVM3. Argent Mirror is definitely higher quality than FSA, and the bonus is weighted by quality of the art, too.
There is no question that we won't get Mountain or Lake breakthrough bonus, considering the nature of argent arts and their role in the sect.
EDIT: Said quote:
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FVM does have the music element, look back at the character page at the arts description and what elements Ling Qi lungs are using. And tricholysis post was about the music element in the first place.
Notice the wording: 'a bunch of early red arts' and 'a few around FSA level', it's several arts of the same type needed for the bonus. If we want Mountain/Lake bonus Ling Qi needs to study another Mountain/Lake bonus art since one isn't enough (especially for a split art which probably don't have the same 'weight' as a mono art). And as the supposed bonus increases so does the investment needed to trigger it in the first place.
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Arkeus
Crazy cat guy
- Location
- France
Ah, I see where you got things wrong. FVM doesn't have the music element, but the thunder element. Ling Qi learned to replace the thunder element with music:
Ling Qi had mastered FVM5 before Zeqing taught her the Music Element, and it didn't have a Music element, but a Thunder one. Zeqing's lesson taught her how to replace Thunder or Wind meridians in musical arts with Music ones.Week 30 part 2 said:
Notice the wording: diminishing returns. Getting a bunch of early red arts mastered would rapidly give less and less bonus. However, getting a bunch of FSA-tier arts would continue to give bonuses for each ones.
Furthermore, here is the post Yrsllar was responding to:
Basically, it was about the difference in quality for breakthrough. Getting a bunch of red arts mastered would lead to lesser and lesser bonus for each one mastered, while ones FSA-tier wouldn't.
AM tier certainly wouldn't give diminishing returns.