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Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

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Arkeus said:
It's not either/or.

ZB+ is crowd control in the physical sense while FVM is crowd control in the spiritual sense, so ZB hampers movement and give ranged dice (both defensive and offensive) as well as increase initiative, while FVM is more about hampering people through their resolves and so on.
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They are both Crowd control abilties that vie for Ling Qi actions, the arts simply don't synergize because Ling has to choose which one to activate and FVM is currently the superior option. When Ling Qi needs to put a person down she has to rely on either pitiful knife throws or archery which doesn't currently have a big damage spike.

Erebeal said:
Anyway, about ZB. ZB is amazing for our dodgy ranged support build. Its passives give us +ranged, +ranged def, and + initiative (which is awesome). It's arts give us pushback and a projectile shield, Against the Wind is a great debuff. Guiding Zephyr would be great if it was instant.

And that's really the big problem. It's dice are limited right now because it's only a mid-red art. AGtW and GZ not being instant is really really bad. If they were instant we'd be able to actually use them with our other techniques. Right now we have to choose between AGtW and GZ, so we pretty much always use AGtW because that's the best option. If we could use GZ to buff our dagger throw when we're procing AGtW though it would be way better - and a more usable GZ would also significantly improve our ability to throw stuff in while we're playing. Being able to stack ZB on top of FSA would hugely improve our ranged game as well. ZB is one of the best options we have to shore up and improve our core style.

Also, it doesn't overlap with AC. AC is a melee technique. We are primarily ranged. We have allies who also do ranged (i.e. Xiulan). ZB is great for us.
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I mean, maybe it was talked in the thread somewhere but I didn't see any guarantee that the upgrade art would simply improve ZB instead of being it's own thing (That requires it's own meridians), and for all that talk of Ling being a ranged fighter most of her techniques require her to be within 30 meter radius of her opponents which is nearly her speed if she also uses SCS which kinda suggests that it's also her opponents range as well. Only one of Ling's allies is ranged (Meizhen, Han, Suyin and the spirit animals are melee based and even Su Ling is trying to switch to melee arts) so that argument falls kinda flat.

I agree that ZB is currently isn't pulling it's weight but I am not convinced that putting so much effort in it is worthwhile, especially when there are other tech that do help Ling and shore up her other weaknesses.

Also a dumb nitpick, but using the Black Ichor Elixir without knowing the art hidden in the book seems like a waste, even if the art turns out to be useless for Ling Qi.
 
Wanna solo the Renshu mission and play stealth rather than overwhelming power. Not confident in Please QM, Let us have everything vote though. Abstaining for now.
 
I too think that is better to infiltrate alone.

Possible scrying aside (And Renshu is exactly the kind of munchkin to scry his enemies, he lives in a cave ffs) taking a second doubles our chances of being discovered. Double the rolls means double chance of a low roll.

And i don't think trying to brute-force the issue is a good idea either. This is the secret basetm​ of a third realm with considerable time to prepare and an unknown number of minions to help him. Assuming that we can just beat him in his turf, even with Meizhen is just hubris.

(And note, Meizhen is actually slower than Ling Qi, which can be a problem if we need to bail).
 
SITB said:
Also a dumb nitpick, but using the Black Ichor Elixir without knowing the art hidden in the book seems like a waste, even if the art turns out to be useless for Ling Qi.
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But, as we discussed earlier, we're not going to be able to stack it + FVM + SCS to get the full 3 rolls.

So at best, we get 2 arts on the elixir. That could be SCS + FVM. It could be SCS + unknown. Banking on there being that kind of art there doesn't seem worth it.
 
SITB said:
They are both Crowd control abilties that vie for Ling Qi actions, the arts simply don't synergize because Ling has to choose which one to activate and FVM is currently the superior option. When Ling Qi needs to put a person down she has to rely on either pitiful knife throws or archery which doesn't currently have a big damage spike.
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Archery is a big damage spike, and throwing knives are used for crowd control mainly but once ZB improves can be used for damage too.

ZB and FVM synergizes because some of the techs are defensive instants and the others stacks with FVM and can be used while having FVM active without bringing it down. FVM being almost always superior doesn't mean the techs don't stack, and ZB does bring something to the table FVM can't do beside.
 
I still dislike worrying about scrying. We don't know what they are but there must be some pretty severe limitations for scrying at our level. Also, it isn't something we can do something about so I figure we live in fear and don't do anything we don't want to be seen; find a work around, a way to protect against it etc; or we just accept the possibility that our every action is being watched and get on with our lives.

Honestly just find it a weak argument for anything really. If people think it's an actual issue, let's go to the archive to learn more about it. If no one cares enough to do so, it just feels like fear mongering.

Seriously, if we actually have all knowing enemies, the fact that even Xiulan's heard about us sneaking around means we might as well give up on the stealth approach all together. Lets just storm the place with a shit-tonne of backup.
 
Grigori said:
I still dislike worrying about scrying. We don't know what they are but there must be some pretty severe limitations for scrying at our level. Also, it isn't something we can do something about so I figure we live in fear and don't do anything we don't want to be seen; find a work around, a way to protect against it etc; or we just accept the possibility that our every action is being watched and get on with our lives.

Honestly just find it a weak argument for anything really. If people think it's an actual issue, let's go to the archive to learn more about it. If no one cares enough to do so, it just feels like fear mongering.

Seriously, if we actually have all knowing enemies, the fact that even Xiulan's heard about us sneaking around means we might as well give up on the stealth approach all together. Lets just storm the place with a shit-tonne of backup.
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I dunno, this is meant to be a stealth mission. We got it from the Grinning Moon after all, and storming the place with a shit ton of dudes doesn't sound too stealthy. Granted, it's not like the Grinning Moon told us we couldn't do that. But it seems to go against the spirit of the whole thing. Either way, I'd prefer to go it alone.
 
The update's awesome, thanks @yrsillar !

Now, time to give the various plans a look
Adhoc vote count started by Waffle on Oct 9, 2017 at 7:42 AM, finished with 92 posts and 10 votes.
  • [X]Plan Plumb the Darkness
    -[X] Train with Elder jiao (LOCKED)
    --[X] Formations
    ---[X] Try to figure out the locking formations on the last bag
    --[X] Larceny
    ---[X] Sable Crescent Step
    -[X] Train with Zeqing
    -[X] Train at the vent with Su Ling
    --[X] Thousand Ring Fortress
    -[X] Train with Meizhen
    --[X] Argent Current
    -[X] Infiltrate Yan Renshu's hideout
    --[X] Ask Meizhen to back you up
    -[X] Minor Actions
    -[x] You haven't had much time for Li Suyin lately, and you have a mysterious tome, maybe the two of you could work on deciphering it?
    -[x] Xuan Shi seems to be busy setting something up at the council meeting pavilion, perhaps you could help him out?
    [X] Plan Please let us have everything oh benevolent QM?
    -[X] Resources: 3 RS, 1 YS, 1 qi expansion pill (2), basic wind/water/wood pills (6), 2nd level wind/wood pills (12), 1 Black Ichor Elixir, 1 sturdy oak pill (18), 1 steady growth pill (8), 1 Qi Sea Pill (25). Total = 1 YS, 74 RS
    -[X]Major actions
    -[X] Spend time taking care of and raising Zhengui
    --[X] Meizhen is going out shopping for something at the market, though she hasn't mentioned what. Tag along?
    -[X] Train with Elder jiao (LOCKED)
    --[X] Larceny
    ---[X] SCS
    --[X] War
    ---[x] ZB+ (grab from archive)
    -[X] Train with Zeqing
    -[X] Infiltrate Yan Renshu's hideout
    --[X] Do it on your own.
    ---[X] But tell Meizhen where we're going, so if we don't back she knows where to drop the hammer
    -[X] Train at the vent with Su Ling
    --[x] TRF
    -[x]Minor Actions
    --[X] You haven't had much time for Li Suyin lately, and you have a mysterious tome, maybe the two of you could work on deciphering it?
    --[X] Xuan Shi seems to be busy setting something up at the council meeting pavilion, perhaps you could help him out?
    [X] Plan Mountain's 11
    [X] Resources: 3 red spirit stones, 1 yellow spirit stone, 1 soul concentrating elixir, 1 rippling lake pill, 1 Stalwart Mountain Pill, 1 first level wood pill, 1-second level wood pill, 1-second level lake pill, 1-second level Mountain pill. (Total 1 yellow stone, 38 red stones)
    [X] Overflow: Qi
    [X] Spend time taking care of and raising Zhengui
    [X] Train with Elder jiao (LOCKED)
    -[X] Investigations
    --[X] Argent Mirror
    -[X] Formations
    --[X] Try to figure out the locking formations on the bags you looted from the shaman
    --[X] Question! How far should we progress in EPC before breaking into green?
    [X] Train at the vent
    -[X] TRF
    [X] Train with Meizhen
    -[X] SCS
    -[X] Tell her of the Black Pool
    [X] Continue Investigating Yan Renshu and Sun Liling's whereabouts
    [X] Compose a letter back to mother
    [X] Su Ling didn't look like she was in good shape, spend some time with her and try to see if you can help?
    [X] Plan Mountain's 11
    [X] Resources: 3 red stones, 1 yellow stone, 1 qi expansion pill, 1 channel cleansing pill, 1 Heavy Rains Pill, 1 Gushing spring pill, 1 level one fire pill, 1 level 2 water pill, 1 level 2 fire pill, 1 Black Ichor Elixir, 1 sturdy oak pill, 1 steady growth pill. (1 yellow stone, 59 red stones)
    [X] Spend time taking care of and raising Zhengui
    -[X] Have a chat with Han Jian, it has been some time since you trained together, see what is occupying him
    [X] Train with Elder jiao (LOCKED)
    -[X] SCS
    --[X] Larceny
    -[X] Argent Current
    --[X] Overflow to arm meridian
    [X] Train with Zeqing
    [X] Infiltrate Yan Renshu's hideout
    -[X] Ask Meizhen to back you up
    [X] Train at the vent with Su Ling
    -[X] Heart Meridian
    --[X] Give Argent Current to Su Ling and Li Suyin
    [X] You haven't had much time for Li Suyin lately, and you have a mysterious tome, maybe the two of you could work on deciphering it?
    [X] Meizhen is going out shopping for something at the market, though she hasn't mentioned what. Tag along?
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Not sure what I should vote for, they all look decent and I can find flaws with every plan. I guess I'll wait. Anyhow, I believe we should give ourselves a deadline for Sable Light week, otherwise we'll never find time to do it.
 
Spectrum said:
Oh for the love of

That is such a "I am TOTALLY straight I swear, yes that's me definitely 100% straight" fronting answer

Someone secure with themselves wouldn't feel that way =/
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Well she is 15, and romantically inexperienced, and I don't know too many people who were secure in their sexuality in those circumstances.

Add in all the baggage from her mother and choosing to be homeless- of course sh s not secure in her sexuality.

I mean it's not evidence she's straight, but it's not evidence she's gay either.
 
[X] Plan Mountain's 11

Voting for this for now, but i would prefer to infiltrate alone. Meizhen tiples the chances of being discovered.
 
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Wait wait. @TheLastOne your plan doesn't have Zhengui. Is that on purpose?

Because I was thinking 'Mmmh, this plan is the only one with Shaman Bag', but if it doesn't have Zhengui major action it's basically a non-starter for me. What's your reasoning for not having him?
 
I'm just pointing this out in case nobody notice, plan 'Plan Plumb the Darkness' doesn't have Zhengui in it.

Edit: Ling Qi'ed
 
Voting for Mountain because Plumb the Darkness ignores Zhengui and has the shaman bags I'm not convinced matter at this point.
 
I'm wondering what Meizhen's role in all of this will be?

I mean is she just going to sneak around with us, and act as backup if something goes wrong? That doesn't seem viable- she may be good at stealth, but she adds another point of failure for stealth rolls. Is she any good at formations? I suppose she could help there. But more importantly, what's in it for her? Does she like sneaking around and stealing? I doubt she's interested in any new Arts and she probably doesn't need more drugs or stones.

She might do it, but it's be purely as a favor for Ling.

On the other hand, if she (possibly teamed up with Cai) were to launch a large ostentatious attack on the rebel base, she might enjoy that a lot more. And Lig could sneak in in the chaos and steal basically everything she wanted to.
 
My, I hadn't seen Mountain 11 had us taking Meizhen along.

[X] Plan Please let us have everything oh benevolent QM?

@Erebeal, could you add the Li Suyin minor action?
 
[X] Plan Please let us have everything oh benevolent QM?

I'm willing to change my vote if the QM says this is a nonstarter (and I honestly think attaching the Meizhen minor to Zhengui probably is), but it's the best plan so far. Mountain doesn't train FVM (a total waste, it's our most used art and we only can train it every other week with the spirit's help) and Darkness doesn't have Zhengui.
 
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Just read the update, but have a small remark at Plan Please let us have everything oh benevolent QM?
Can't we ask Elder Jiao for a Zephyr's Breath successor art? Maybe one that's better than the one we would stumble upon in the first level of the archive? Elder Ying was more than happy to provide us with our excellent Thousand Ring Fortress Art.
 
[X] Plan Please let us have everything oh benevolent QM?

@Erebeal I'd like to make the argument for giving Su Ling Argent Current.

Basically, we technically owe her a share of the spoils from the shamans bag, but the drugs we've found so far are all useful to us. The thinking in the Discord was we give her Argent Current as a trade, as it is especially relevant considering she is looking for a melee art so she can rely less on her fox heritage (plus AC being half-fire, Su Ling being fox might have bonuses to it?).

For Li Suyin as well, we could give her the bone crow puppets, as we know she's been looking into puppets, and it's not like they're of any use to us or Su Ling. Thoughts?

EDIT: To clarify, we wouldn't be giving Suyin Argent Current, we'd just give her the bone crows.
 
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