Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

The Good Doctor part 1
Hmm... It would be a little sad if I didn't at least try and post an Omake in the month of July. So, I wrote the very first section of a larger omake that has been bouncing around in my head. Hey, at least this time the guy isn't a street rat or a prisoner!

The Good Doctor: Part I

I dreamed. I knew it was a dream for the events playing out before my eyes happened in the ancient past when I was younger, brasher, and more arrogant from the qi coursing through my veins. I also knew that this was a dream for it was exactly the same dream I had been plagued with for 100 years now. This was the dream of when I killed the traitor Zu Dao, my best friend, and brother.

Abruptly, I was awoken from my nightmare by the sound of a hesitant knocking at my door. Understanding flashed within me as I realized that it was only 3:00am in the morning, well before I was normally roused from my seldom bouts of slumber.

I called out to the messenger, "One moment, I wish to be presentable before hearing the esteemed message you have been tasked to bring me."

I briefly flexed my qi to cleanse myself from the sweat that always followed the nightmare and began quickly readying myself for the message. Finally placing my gloves over my blood stained hands, I opened the door to greet the messenger waiting outside of my room.

"Greetings, I'm sorry the message had to wait for me to become presentable, who desires my attention at such a time and could not bear to wait or use more prompt means of communication?"

The messenger looked pale and ragged, it seemed that he had no desire to be here either. However, when he spoke it was with the presentation of the seal of authority, "The Emperor, long may he live, has requested your presence in his court at your earliest convenience."

I nodded at the messenger and began to walk briskly to my room in order to wear clothes fit to be presented in front of the Emperor, long may he live, himself. After finishing my preparations, I walked to my balcony, faced the direction of the Imperial Palace, stepped up on to the railing and flexed my qi, summoning the air and heavens themselves. In an instant, I was before the gate of the Imperial Palace, in all of its splendor.

I made my way through the familiar corridors of the Palace, moving past guards, servants, and sycophants as the court of the Emperor grew ever closer. Eventually standing in the vestibule of the court, I nodded to the guards who had been guarding the entrance. Without a sign of acknowledgment, they turned and pushed open the great doors and when there was enough room for me to pass I began walking forward. The moment before I crossed the threshold, I flexed my qi and the world slowed to a crawl. With my sense of time distorted to such an extent, I could comfortably assess the situation and see if there were any clues as to the reason the Emperor had called the head of his ministry of health to be presented in front of him.

Emperor An was, of course, sitting on the Dragon Throne with the court room filled at the sides with murmuring sycophants plotting, betraying, and all around trying to win the tightly spun political games that they were always playing. Of more interest, was the few individuals that were talking to the Emperor, all of them were either from the newly acquired province or from regions that boarded the province. In other words, pardoned traitors. A weary sigh vibrated through my cranium. There was a good chance that it was politics, actually, it was almost always politics. I hated politics.

Time snapped back into focus again as I crossed the threshold, walking briskly through the opened center directly towards the Emperor. Reaching the appropriate location in front of the Emperor, I bowed deeply to him and stated my appearance before his presence "Zu Hao presents his unworthy self before the Imperial throne. You have willed my presence before your majesty and as such, I have arrived."

The Emperor waved away the men who were around the base of his throne and began to address me, "We have been notified that your ministry has been failing in the task that has been required of you."

That did not sound particularly pleasant, for I had no idea what matter he was addressing. Without missing a beat I responded, "I am humbled that your majesty would take the time to check on the workings of a ministry as lowly as ours, however, nothing has been brought to my attention in regards to where I have failed my duty. If his Excellency would be so gracious as to instruct me as to where my ministry has failed, then I will do everything in my power to correct the oversight."

"It has come to our attention that in our western provinces a plague has been allowed to spread, unchecked by your ministry of health. What say you to this failure of yours?

"That it is a failure of my ministry, and as its head, I will accept responsibility for the plague and seek to do everything in my power to correct this failure," I responded, quickly thinking of an opportunity to be salvaged from this debacle. "If it would be pleasing to Your will, I will personally go to the west to investigate and curb this plague in order to save face for this failure of mine."

I sensed the Emperor give pause, considering the offer. Before this calamity, I had been in favor with the Emperor and he could likely see how this situation came about. It would be a simple matter, expensive but simple, to bribe every one of my agents in the western regions to stay silent about the plague for a time while sprinting messengers ahead to inform the Emperor of my "failing." The Emperor would have been forced to dismiss me if I had fought against the news and it would have shamed me to simply accept responsibility. Losing a trusted servant at court would have been a blow that the Emperor would have had little room to deal with especially after his handling of the Sun incident. Hopefully, with this way out that I had given him, I could remain alive and in my position, and the Emperor could retain my service and loyalty in his court of vipers and sycophants.

After a moment of deliberation, the Emperor spoke, "We are pleased by your willingness to correct this error of yours. However, while you are gone, who would continue your duties as the Head of the Ministry of Health? Your talents and skills are nearly without peer, who would you have taken up the mantle you wear while you are in the west?"

I calmly stated the final part of the plan I had just concocted, "My personal assistant, a man who is known as Huang Biming, has enough skill to hold the position until I return. Should he encounter a problem that he is not prepared to handle, he is easily able to communicate with me despite any distance between us and I will be able to guide him on the proper course of action."

"We declare it so," spoke the Emperor. "Prepare your things to travel to the Western provinces that have so recently come under my authority in order to stop the plague from spreading and to destroy the root of such a danger to my Empire. Order Heung Biming to take up your position as Head of the Ministry of Health until your return. We have willed it, and so let it be so!"

A messenger standing to the side of the court bowed deeply to the Emperor and approached me. I handed him the signet ring denoting my position as Head of the Ministry of Health and told him where to find Huang Biming. As he raced off to impart the news to him, I bowed once more, deeply, to the Emperor and took my leave. I had a lot of work to do and not a lot of time to do it. I needed to see which of my agents had been bribed and inform the Ministry of Integrity of their identity, I needed to find who had bribed them and report those individuals to that same ministry, and I needed to stop a plague that was apparently sweeping the Western provinces. I had no idea what the plague did, where it started, or where it was probably heading to. I also had been tasked with not only stopping the plague but also destroying whatever had caused it, or at least identify the cause enough so that it could be prevented from happening again. I kneaded my temples as a painful pressure built up between them. This was going to be a long, difficult, and tiresome "vacation" from the politics of the capital city. I flexed my qi when I left the palace and once again I stood on my balcony. It was time to do what I do best, save the Empire from disease and filth. And traitors I suppose.
 
Guess who got commissioned to do MORE art!

Spoiler: IT'S ME.

Let's all remember to thank @Codex for his wonderful donation for the cause~ (Also it's transparent for your dragging image needs.)

SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*explodes into rainbows*
 
*finishes catching up*

GOD DAMMIT! The one ship in this quest that actually grew on me as more than "Eh I suppose they'd look cute together". :cry:

............................Well we could both just go Spirit like Jiao and his wife so then we wouldn't have to worry about stupid facts of human biology like this anymore.

Or maybe there's a teeny tiny 0.0000000000001% chance Ling Qi's introspection results in her discover some seriously repressed bisexuality.

As for the interlude itself, Jiao and Xin are surprisingly adorable together, I definitely want to see more of them and so far Xin is looking to be best Moon Sis/Moon Mom. Wouldn't be opposed to us following her version of EPC if that leads to more interaction with her.

Though If we're really unable to love Meizhen back the way she wants maybe Xin and Yueliang might have some cute son/nephews we could bind/date?

Oh and our little Xuanwu is just the cutest yes he is, yes he is!
 
Hmm, where is yrsillar today? He usually chimes in by now. If he is taking a break great he deserves one but it's a bit weird not to hear from him.
 
Hmm, where is yrsillar today? He usually chimes in by now. If he is taking a break great he deserves one but it's a bit weird not to hear from him.

You can find out just by clicking on his name on the top of the page. It will tell you when he last logged on.

Edit:

Name, not picture.
 
Hmm, where is yrsillar today? He usually chimes in by now. If he is taking a break great he deserves one but it's a bit weird not to hear from him.
I expect he has been exceedingly busy yesterday. Even if he was taking a break to think through how to write things I would have expected him to have gushed about the superb Xuanwu omake above.

So yeah, people shouldn't expect an update before saturday at the earlier I think, and he is probably very tied right now. That or entertaining company.
 
Finally fought my way through the tears to get to my second read through.
"Outer Sect riff raff can hardly be trusted with complex procedures," she added, words that should have sounded malicious or arrogant simply seeming matter of fact.

Li Suyin laughed a little awkwardly, glancing nervously at Ling Qi. Ling Qi simply gave her a reassuring look, even if this Bao Qingling's attitude was a little grating she wasn't going to say something dumb. Besides, it had taken a second for it to occur to her... but she was probably partially at fault for the girls presence. After all, the curse and Sun Liling's little rampage were probably what had pulled inner disciples down to the outer mountains hall. "I see, well, in anyway, I guess I should be thanking you for taking care of my good friend Li Suyin, Elder Sister Bao."

The girl looked at her a little longer this time, though her gaze remained apathetic. "Mm. You are welcome, Assistant Li has a good hand for delicate matters, it seems this year's outer disciples are less useless than usual," she responded bluntly, and Ling Qi had a feeling that was as close to an acknowledgement as she would get from the girl.
Aw, looks like Suyin has a type. Seems to have a thing for the abrasive with both Lings fitting pretty easily into that category. Maybe Meizhen too since it's more Meizhen than Suyin who kept up the distance. Like with Meizhen and Su Ling though, it's clear that despite her hard exterior Bao Quingling also has a heart full of love and compassion.

Maybe she would be bristling if she was the same person she had been when she came to the mountain, but she had come far enough to recognize the difference between a generally abrasive attitude and targeted contempt. She couldn't say she liked the older girl though. "Just… don't get caught up in anything weird, alright?"
Our little Ling Qi is growing up...

Ling Qi crossed her arms, a bit of awkwardness surfacing despite her efforts to keep her thoughts in order. "Yeah, thats me," she said, before wincing a bit and correcting herself, and pulling the note with the sect seal out to show him. "I mean… Yes, I am Ling Qi. Thank you for taking the time to teach me, Senior Brother Ruan," she corrected, coughing into her hand. "I… suppose they must have given you a description?"

He chuckled slightly, pushing himself up from the pillar he leaned against and lowering his instrument to his side as he fished a matching seal marked note from his pocket to confirm his identity. "Yeah, they did. No reason to be so stiff though. You can call me Shen though, if you'd like, it won't bother me any."

"Senior Brother Shen," Ling Qi responded after a moment as she stopped in front of him, dipping her head. If he said it was fine she could relax a little. "I… haven't done this before, so what exactly are we going to do?"
... But she's still adorable.
Ruan Shen seems decent enough though.

"Might be because you can get pretty nosy about the shit you do care about," Su Ling called up, giving her an annoyed look. Ling Qi simply grinned cheekily down at the silent accusation of 'showoff'. "You're not her mother you know. Let her do her own thing."

Ling Qi made a disatisfied sound and crossed her arms as she stood on the cliff edge, giving Su Ling a few moments to catch up. "Maybe I'm just being paranoid," she admitted grudgingly.

"Yeah, you don't see me prodding you about whatever you're getting up too with that guy you've been hanging around with," Su Ling said as she pulled herself up over the top and stood, dusting herself off.

Ling Qi rolled her eyes at the implication, but she got the point. "You know it's just music practice."

"Course I do," Su Ling replied, unruffled. "Which the point," she replied flatly. Ling Qi lowered her head a bit, acknowledging the point as they started out through the scraggly trees clinging to the still steep mountainside. "Not that I'd blame ya, from what I saw, that is a pretty fine hunk of meat," she added blithely.

Ling Qi shot her a withering look. "You too? I get enough of that from Gu Xiulan," she replied dryly.
Liking the casual banter, wonder if Xiulan will hear about this and comment.

"Your songs are stiff, aside from that one. You've got the technical stuff down, you don't miss any notes, and you know all the little details of how to play… least when it comes to your flute anyway, but today's the first time I really felt any soul in your music, you know? You were alone for a long time, weren't you?" He spoke casually, even as Ling Qi stiffened at his assertion. "Yeah… lonely, afraid, hurting and hungry," he continued blithely. "Whoever gave you that song matched it to you well."

Ling Qi's grip on her flute tightened, and she scowled at the older boy. "Don't just assume you know things," she snapped, her politeness had been worn down over the past few days with the irreverent boy, and his assertion got under her skin more than it really should have
Yeah, Ruan Shen is awesome. FVM is awesome. This scene is awesome. Awesome all around, really liked this nod back to where Ling Qi is coming from. Strong roots required for a large tree and all that. With all the talk of the Grinning Moon and how we want Ling Qi to change for the better it was good to get a reminder of how she started. Having to fight, steal and betray for everything she got. Wasn't an easy life but it turned her into the talented survivor she is today! I like her resolution to be better than she was, to find freedom but be strong enough to take her friends with her rather than leaving them in her wake, but she's practical and I think it'd be out of character to not use what she has available to her. Hunger is in her bones at this point, she won't just forget it like she won't just forsake dark qi and FVM seems to be an acknowledgement of a Greater Spirit seeing that in her. Not to say she will never change or evolve but for her to turn away from tricks and trying to outsmart her opponent to just honourably try to brute force her way through feels unlikely. The ferocity, desperation and drive she can bring to bear will be one of her greatest resources. Dark qi and connections to an arguably less than moral spirit would only be one facet of Ling Qi and not a completely negative one. Light may show the way but you only get to see the stars by enduring the dark. :V

"So, what's your advice, Senior Brother Shen? How can I improve?" She asked, the weird delight he seemed to get out of her calling him that was kind of annoying, but it was useful for getting straight answers.

Even if she could tell that he was playing things up a little, the sharp eyed boy was a lot more perceptive than he let on.

He grinned down at her. "Well, I can show you a few things, how to really get the feel for the qi going into every note, and the way it flows from your fingers and breath. What you need the most, if you're gonna focus on this though… is some time on other songs. You gotta cheer up a little, you know? Write something yourself, something that you can really put your all into."
Happiness for the win! Still want her to write a song for Meizhen. I imagine her celebration with Xiulan and Meizhen's celebration at the lake were the happiest and most relaxed she'd been in a long time. Probably easier to reminisce about happy times with Meizhen than with her mother.

"Meizhen," Ling Qi called after her, a sinking feeling in her gut telling her that she hadn't helped matters. "I… I did have fun that night, and I hope you did too. I still appreciate everything you've done for me."

The pale girl paused for a moment at the door, glancing back over her shoulder, a flicker of something unreadable in her eyes. "I appreciated your effort as well," she said simply. "It is for the best that we avoid such overt familiarity in the future though, for both of us. I am sorry Ling Qi."
And so we get to this, once again... I reread their fight in Serpent's Treasure far too many times because it was awesome. Awesomely written and just kinda glorious to see Meizhen emote like that. Not for the best reasons but she actually opened up! This though... This was painful. Just seeing her withdraw further and further into herself as her cold indifferent shell hardened... She even went back to calling Ling Qi by her full name although she at least never specified that Ling Qi would have to. Still, I can't truly bring myself to regret it. Meizhen was withdrawing already, full of worry and unable to meet Ling Qi's eye and with her lack of social experience I'm not confident she wouldn't be too paranoid to just forget it even if Ling Qi were able to. Which she wasn't. She herself was getting increasingly uncomfortable and awkward, second guessing everything. Not great but she hasn't exactly had the most stable background/support structure either. With the way she was acting Meizhen would have inevitably felt worse, especially knowing that Ling Qi isn't usually the subtle type, I can imagine she'd take the lack of confrontation as a sign the relationship was irreparably damaged. Hopefully this meeting with Xiulan will help calm Ling Qi and the two can eventually talk again with the wounds less fresh. Zhengui needs his aunt Meizhen in his life!

She soon found herself looking down at the tiny, blunt face of black scaled tortoise, with eyes that were a bright, solid green. It blinked up at her in confusion, and let out a plaintive little sound, a high pitched mix between a chirp and a squeak.

It's stubby forelegs followed it out of the crumbling shell as it stumbled forward, revealing a dark green shell, formed of dull triangular spikes. Suddenly remembering that she should be doing something, Ling Qi rubbed her thumb along the little creature's head, brushing away some leftover ash. "Look at you, you're wonderful," she breathed, unable to contain her grin, she had done it, she had a spirit beast. It was warm to the touch, hot really, and rubbed his little head back against her hand, blinking up at her with a adorably guileless gaze as his stubby little foreclaws scrabbled at her dress, slipping on the sleek fabric. She could feel its… no, his qi, if she was feeling it right, bright and hot as a newborn flame. Her spirit had been born right into the first realm.

She quickly remembered that spirits were often born quite hungry, and, while continuing to pet the little fellow with one hand and make reassuring sounds, she summoned a small grade one core she had acquired from hunting out of her ring. She smiled and lowered her hand, amused by the way his little eyes immediately fixed on the sphere in her hand.

Then she blinked as she heard a hiss, and something snapped the core right out of her hand. There, protruding from the back of her spirits shell, where his tail should be, was what looked like the front half of a black scaled serpent, with bright red eyes, a puff of smoke and ash escaped its mouth as it swallowed down the core and nuzzled against her hand, even as the the tortoises other head let out a distressed squeak.

That… that hadn't been in any of the books she had read.
And there we have our precious little Xuanwu, Zhengui. Was a pretty sad chappie but well worth a reread. Excited to see Han Jian and Xiulan. Golden Fields bond are strong. It would be a little sad (and funny) if Xiulan wanted to show off her awesome spirit beast that'd grow into third realm only to see Zhengui. Or maybe she's smug about hearing something else she wants to tell us. Hopefully she won't mention Meizhen. Han Jian event should be an interesting distraction though and I'm obviously looking forward to see more of our little precious.
 
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Finally fought my way through the tears to get to my second read through.

Aw, looks like Shiyun has a type. Seems to have a thing for the abrasive with both Lings fitting pretty easily into that category. Maybe Meizhen too since it's more Meizhen than Suyin who kept up the distance. Like with Meizhen and Su Ling though, it's clear that despite her hard exterior Bao Quingling also has a heart full of love and compassion.


Our little Ling Qi is growing up...


... But she's still adorable.
Ruan Shen seems decent enough though.


Liking the casual banter, wonder if Xiulan will hear about this and comment.


Yeah, Ruan Shen is awesome. FVM is awesome. This scene is awesome. Awesome all around, really liked this nod back to where Ling Qi is coming from. Strong roots required for a large tree and all that. With all the talk of the Grinning Moon and how we want Ling Qi to change for the better it was good to get a reminder of how she started. Having to fight, steal and betray for everything she got. Wasn't an easy life but it turned her into the talented survivor she is today! I like her resolution to be better than she was, to find freedom but be strong enough to take her friends with her rather than leaving them in her wake, but she's practical and I think it'd be out of character to not use what she has available to her. Hunger is in her bones at this point, she won't just forget it like she won't just forsake dark qi and FVM seems to be an acknowledgement of a Greater Spirit seeing that in her. Not to say she will never change or evolve but for her to turn away from tricks and trying to outsmart her opponent to just honourably try to brute force her way through feels unlikely. The ferocity, desperation and drive she can bring to bear will be one of her greatest resources. Dark qi and connections to an arguably less than moral spirit would only be one facet of Ling Qi and not a completely negative one. Light may show the way but you only get to see the stars by enduring the dark. :V


Happiness for the win! Still want her to write a song for Meizhen. I imagine her celebration with Xiulan and Meizhen's celbration at the laker were the happiest and most relaxed she'd been in a long time. Probably easier to reminisce about happy times with Meizhen than with her mother.


And so we get to this, once again... I reread their fight in Serpent's Treasure far too many times because it was awesome. Awesomely written and just kinda glorious to see Meizhen emote like that. Not for the best reasons but she actually opened up! This though... This was painful. Just seeing her withdraw further and further into herself as her cold indifferent shell hardened... She even went back to calling Ling Qi by her full name although she at least never specified that Ling Qi would have to. Still, I can't truly bring myself to regret it. Meizhen was withdrawing already, full of worry and unable to meet Ling Qi's eye and with her lack of social experience I'm not confident she wouldn't be too paranoid to just forget it even if Ling Qi were able to. Which she wasn't. She herself was getting increasingly uncomfortable and awkward, second guessing everything. Not great but she hasn't exactly had the most stable background/support structure either. With the way she was acting Meizhen would have inevitably felt worse, especially knowing that Ling Qi isn't usually the subtle type, I can imagine she'd take the lack of confrontation as a sign the relationship was irreparably damaged. Hopefully this meeting with Xiulan will help calm Ling Qi and the two can eventually talk again with the wounds less fresh. Zhengui needs his aunt Meizhen in his life!


And there we have our precious little Xuanwu with the name Zhengui winning. Was a pretty sad chappie but well worth a reread. Excited to see Han Jian and Xiulan. Golden Fields bond are strong. It would be a little sad (and funny) if Xiulan wanted to show off her awesome spirit beast that'd grow into third realm only to see Zhengui. Or maybe she's smug about hearing something else she wants to tell us. Hopefully she won't mention Meizhen. Han Jian event should be an interesting distraction though and I'm obviously looking forward to see more of our little precious.

I find it really difficult to believe Gu Xiulan wouldn't notice how Ling Qi and Meizhen can't meet each other's eyes. I'm going to guess at some point Gu will find out something happened, and she will question us. Maybe not this week, but definitely if things go on for a while. Suyin is the type to leave us alone and wouldn't question it, because she's the secretive type and she's fine with leaving things be. Gu Xiulan is significantly more pushy.
 
I find it really difficult to believe Gu Xiulan wouldn't notice how Ling Qi and Meizhen can't meet each other's eyes. I'm going to guess at some point Gu will find out something happened, and she will question us. Maybe not this week, but definitely if things go on for a while. Suyin is the type to leave us alone and wouldn't question it, because she's the secretive type and she's fine with leaving things be. Gu Xiulan is significantly more pushy.
Yeah, you're probably right though we probably would've gotten away with it if not for the meeting. We aren't often seen around Meizhen and she's not generally the most expressive. Hoping with the air cleared some of the anxiety will disperse and there'll be less awkward around each other even if not as close as they were. Maybe we can distract Xiulan with our adorable spirit beast!
 
I find it really difficult to believe Gu Xiulan wouldn't notice how Ling Qi and Meizhen can't meet each other's eyes. I'm going to guess at some point Gu will find out something happened, and she will question us. Maybe not this week, but definitely if things go on for a while. Suyin is the type to leave us alone and wouldn't question it, because she's the secretive type and she's fine with leaving things be. Gu Xiulan is significantly more pushy.
Mmmh. Not sure about that.

Both Gu Xiulan and Li Suyin are very pushy, and when they are non-pushy they are more often than not scared. Though, well, they aren't pushy about the same things at all.

I'm unsure either of them would be pushy about this.
 
Mmmh. Not sure about that.

Both Gu Xiulan and Li Suyin are very pushy, and when they are non-pushy they are more often than not scared. Though, well, they aren't pushy about the same things at all.

I'm unsure either of them would be pushy about this.
When's Suyin been pushy? o_O
Xiulan I can imagine bringing it up as teasing but I doubt she'd be cruel if she picks up it's somewhat serious.
 
When's Suyin been pushy? o_O
Xiulan I can imagine bringing it up as teasing but I doubt she'd be cruel if she picks up it's somewhat serious.
She's been pushing Su Ling around when it came to doing things a bit, and she has been pushy with us a few times when she desired things. Well... I guess it depends what you mean by pushy. Her dialogue/etc isn't pushy, but what she does is pushy?
 
She's been pushing Su Ling around when it came to doing things a bit, and she has been pushy with us a few times when she desired things. Well... I guess it depends what you mean by pushy. Her dialogue/etc isn't pushy, but what she does is pushy?
Hmm, so sort of unyielding? So she's determined in doing things sometimes. I guess she has some steel to her but I wouldn't go so far as to describe her as pushy and I don't think we've seen enough interaction between Suyin and Su Ling to comment. With us at least she's always seemed more like the follower. She approached us but it was to ask for help and since then we've taken the lead whether it was where to study or approaching Su Ling about exploring. I think most people have some strength to them but I don't think pushy is a fitting description.
 
Hmm, so sort of unyielding? So she's determined in doing things sometimes. I guess she has some steel to her but I wouldn't go so far as to describe her as pushy and I don't think we've seen enough interaction between Suyin and Su Ling to comment. With us at least she's always seemed more like the follower. She approached us but it was to ask for help and since then we've taken the lead whether it was where to study or approaching Su Ling about exploring. I think most people have some strength to them but I don't think pushy is a fitting description.
Actually, Li Suyin has taken the lead for approaching Su Ling afterwards (both for the vent and she was the one who convinced her to train with Han Jian). Likewise she didnt just approach us for training once, but did it again for physical, and then made sure we knew what she wanted for her challenge. The way she organised the challenge is also all her- she trembles and is scared, but that's how she thinks and do things.

So I do think we have seen enough to say she is pushy when it comes to quite a lot of things, but it's also interesting given how she also tends to be very secretive and very scared, so it makes for a weird mix.
 
So I do think we have seen enough to say she is pushy when it comes to quite a lot of things, but it's also interesting given how she also tends to be very secretive and very scared, so it makes for a weird mix.
Yeah, Li Suyin is a special cookie in terms of personality. To me, it seems that she wants to be outgoing and sociable but is crippled by horrible self-esteem and self-efficacy. She wants to be able to get other people to hang out with her and wants to be able to demand the attention from a room, at least subconsciously, and is trying to work towards that by being more forceful with her opinion around people whom she trusts, but she has a long way to go and huge hurdles to overcome if she wants to become someone like Gu Xuilan.
 
Actually, Li Suyin has taken the lead for approaching Su Ling afterwards (both for the vent and she was the one who convinced her to train with Han Jian). Likewise she didnt just approach us for training once, but did it again for physical, and then made sure we knew what she wanted for her challenge. The way she organised the challenge is also all her- she trembles and is scared, but that's how she thinks and do things.

So I do think we have seen enough to say she is pushy when it comes to quite a lot of things, but it's also interesting given how she also tends to be very secretive and very scared, so it makes for a weird mix.
Yeah she took the lead in the approach because she's closer but it was Ling Qi that convinced her it was a good idea in the first place, Suyin has very much been the follower in our relationship with her so far. The training and challenge I would say are examples of her being determined and somewhat assertive but being pushy is usually seen as being excessively assertive or ambitious which I don't think fits Suyin. It's great that she has some agency and it's showing even more in her current work but she's never shown herself to be excessive or unpleasantly driven which is how Xiulan was initially described.
 
Yeah she took the lead in the approach because she's closer but it was Ling Qi that convinced her it was a good idea in the first place, Suyin has very much been the follower in our relationship with her so far. The training and challenge I would say are examples of her being determined and somewhat assertive but being pushy is usually seen as being excessively assertive or ambitious which I don't think fits Suyin. It's great that she has some agency and it's showing even more in her current work but she's never shown herself to be excessive or unpleasantly driven which is how Xiulan was initially described.
That seems like narrator-tinted vision though. I mean, Gu Xiulan was described more harshly because Ling Qi was suspicious of her (rightly). Likewise, Ling Qi feels differently about someone showing confidence and agression compared to someone showing self-esteem issues and shyness, but that doesn't mean one is more pushy than the other.

Gu Xiulan introduction had her sparring with us (iirc), and Li Suyin had her getting to train with us and get uncomfortably close to us while we were meditating (moreso than Ling Qi had agreed to). As for Su Ling stuff, she didn't just take the lead because of Ling Qi, she went behind Ling Qi's back to include Su Ling without asking. You can definitely be pushy without being agressive at all, and I think Li Suyin qualifies.

However, I also don't think pushy is 'excessively assertive or ambitious', so maybe we are talking past each others.
 
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That seems like narrator-tinted vision though. I mean, Gu Xiulan was described more harshly because Ling Qi was suspicious of her (rightly). Likewise, Ling Qi feels differently about someone showing confidence and agression compared to someone showing self-esteem issues and shyness, but that doesn't mean one is more pushy than the other.

Gu Xiulan introduction had her sparring with us (iirc), and Li Suyin had her getting to train with us and get uncomfortably close to us while we were meditating (moreso than Ling Qi had agreed to). As for Su Ling stuff, she didn't just take the lead because of Ling Qi, she went behind Ling Qi's back to include Su Ling without asking. You can definitely be pushy without being agressive at all, and I think Li Suyin qualifies.

However, I also don't think pushy is 'excessively assertive or ambitious', so maybe we are talking past each others.
Pushy is by definition negative. It's an excessive/obnoxious level of confidence. Ling Qi was pushy during the Serpent's Treasure when she confronted Meizhen about her feelings and in her mission with Su Ling. Maybe try another word to describe what you're saying? I don't think the word really applies to Suyin, she's too timid. Even when she got uncomfortably close it wasn't intentional, more thoughtless than uncaring regarding Qi's comfort. I agree that Suyin can be assertive and she's growing moreso but being pushy means taking it to an objectionable level where it's seen as unpleasant and negative and it's hard to describe Suyin that way.
 
Pushy is by definition negative. It's an excessive/obnoxious level of confidence. Ling Qi was pushy during the Serpent's Treasure when she confronted Meizhen about her feelings and in her mission with Su Ling. Maybe try another word to describe what you're saying? I don't think the word really applies to Suyin, she's too timid. Even when she got uncomfortably close it wasn't intentional, more thoughtless than uncaring regarding Qi's comfort. I agree that Suyin can be assertive and she's growing moreso but being pushy means taking it to an objectionable level where it's seen as unpleasant and negative and it's hard to describe Suyin that way.
She still is both timid and pushy though. She has 'happened to be' in pushy positions often enough that her timidity only means she is timid, not that she isn't pushy. I think we'd have to ignore a lot of her actions to advance that she isn't pushy given her habit to organise things so that you either don't have an opportunity to say no or you aren't allowed to. She's just this kinda of unholy union of low self-esteem, secretive and pushiness.

Likewise, pretty sure that while the connotation of pushy is negative it doesn't mean it's by definition negative. It might be my ESL here, but I would definitely consider Li Suyin pushy before being assertive or forward, simply because the way it happens is as often positive as negative and pushy does denote, for me, that awkwardness.
 
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Alright, sorry about the long delay on this one folks. This will be out on monday at the latest. It's going pretty long again and not-writing stuff has been really into into my free time.
 
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