If Valk Cores didn't have limits, this war would already be over. They are not wishing machines. They are psudo-black boxes that come equipped with a bunch of preset abilities that are really useful, and can learn more. They have to be taught those new things first, and psychology is most defiantly NOT part of the factory standard.
Battle Action Harem Highschool Side Character Quest (No SV, you are the Waifu)
- Thread starter Avalanche
- Start date
- Original
If Valk Cores didn't have limits, this war would already be over. They are not wishing machines. They are psudo-black boxes that come equipped with a bunch of preset abilities that are really useful, and can learn more. They have to be taught those new things first, and psychology is most defiantly NOT part of the factory standard.
It depends. The anime is in Japanese, right?
Icipall
Don't worry, we can fanfix that!
- Location
- Cold snow fields of Finland
Now I'm hoping for another Fauxchan-omake.
The thing with Anna is that she, like the first gen, had time not being in full combat or prep for combat mode. Which probably was a big influences on the early core-human interaction. Durga was set in a norm that the shift to combat slowly destroyed, leaving whatever it is that Anna got. Might be that they where on the road to VDS but due to the earlier 'norm' and mom's plea for Durga to keep Anna safe stopped it from developing like the common version that the younger gen got.
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- Location
- Austria
Less limits than humans. Thus, better answers to the question of "What do I need?" than human can provide, with all else being equal.
Not deliberately, thanks.
And, like....maybe I misunderstand the nature of Valk Cores?
They extend mental capacities of the pilot, thus seemingly causing more severe forms of PTSD and unhealthy ways of coping - but the same extension of mental capacities magically does not apply to dealing with PTSD and healthy ways of coping. Why?
They extend mental capabilities of pilot in everything regarding war, planning, math, physics and so on, but do not touch anything social, psychoogical and so on. Why?
Overall, isn't there a general power-up of pilot's mental capabilities involved? And if there is one, why it is applied only selectively? Is it inherent limitation of Cores or what, and if so, why?
That implies that there is more certainty in combat than in conversation though. I am not sure that's the case.
And under some not-inconsiderable restrictions on their actions, if Kandakara is anything to go by.
Actually the update says that anna destroyed 3% of the antag production capacity ie infrastructure and factories in NA and eatting up 20% of all of the antag forces produced from 2 minor hives in over 8 years.
Familiar - My work here is done.
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
If I run somebody though with a blade they die, If I compose an argument and explain it 'clearly' nobody will disagree with it.
It is the case.
I just really want to see what Kandaraka's opinion on Anna and Durga is. Maybe next chap when She(?) and Coke zero are finally talking? Also kinda want to see when it gets spilled that Anna is #1. Even if it's only on fauxchan. Sandra knows, Shuri probably suspects, and Yukari is starting to get the inclings of suspicion. But the rest? No idea at all. Even better if somebody tries to deny it and one of the top ranks steps in to confirm.
(And I know about the one omake already, with Medusa, but there's not nearly enough interaction at the end to satisfy me).
(And I know about the one omake already, with Medusa, but there's not nearly enough interaction at the end to satisfy me).
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Ginger Maniac
Subject to Gravity
- Location
- Old Blighty
The problem vis a vis VDS seems to me to centre around the interaction of the Valkyrie core with the human subconscious. I mean, we know for a fact that Cores operate by direct thought control, and they can bypass or buttress certain mindstates or trains of thought in the name of enhancing operator effectiveness. It's not much of a stretch at all to extend that kind of interface-and-response loop to the subconscious areas of the mind, which as far as I'm aware have a lot to do with mental health. From there, it's a very short hop to the Core blindly optimising those regions of the brain to produce fewer responses that hinder the operator. It just so happens that emotional associations are tied up deeply with trauma, and it's very difficult to manipulate one without fucking up the other.
This would make a solution to VDS rather difficult, because first you'd have to delve deep into the back-office functions and processes of the brain to understand what changes the Core is making, and why they result in VDS. And once that preliminary work is done, you'd have two choices. One, alter the way the human subconscious works, so that the Core doesn't streamline it in such a way as to bring about VDS. Second, patch the Core to alter the way it makes changes.
I'm not sure which would be more viable, in the end. Changing the human mind is evidently something a Core can do, so maybe a program of mental exercises for Valks to nudge the Core into making the right sort of changes would work. On the other hand, if word ever got out that the UN had worked out how to deliberately alter Valks' brains and was doing so en masse, you can bet the ethics discussions will be thermonuclear in scale. I can already hear the cries of "BRAINWASHING!". But on the other hand, patching a Core would take a lot more understanding of the things than the UN presently has. Adding safeties to make sure the noobs don't splatter themselves across the walls the first time they open the taps is one thing, but we know that the operating system is currently a complete blank to human scientists. Editing that without proper understanding sounds to me like a very quick way to make things go very wrong indeed. With luck, you'd get a bluescreen. Without, well...
_____
Just as an aside, that kind of optimisation-without-intelligence really reminds me of the control system for the protomolecule in James S A Corey's Expanse series. Mostly the way it applies incremental trial-and-error approaches to problems and systems to produce a desired result, without any shred of understanding of exactly what it's doing. I wouldn't be surprised if that's why the Core can unintentionally damage human psychology - it's making changes, observing the results, then making further changes. There haven't been any abort-retry-fail errors yet, so clearly nothing is going wrong. Right?
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Yarudazuigu
Frostbyte's overlord.
- Location
- Poland
I fucking hated the ending of the Omake.
Sandra destroyed humanity and got victory bullshit on the top of it? What nonsense with the Higgs Particles Wall.
What's worse she used poor Anna as a sacrificial bomb-terrorist. Who "won" against Antagonists. By blowing up everything.
I think that Plot Armour of Sandra was too thick. Setsu and Koiji should have serious shot at killing her, when they were in Frames, and she was not in Frame. Primary because while Sandra is good, she is not Anna. Also Shuri being useless doormat? I mean, what?!
I expected Shuri to not be shocked silly, but simply put Particle Cannon the biggest traitor of humanity ever.
Unlike kids, and unlike Sandra, she is a veteran like Anna ... if much less traumatized.
Sandra destroyed humanity and got victory bullshit on the top of it? What nonsense with the Higgs Particles Wall.
What's worse she used poor Anna as a sacrificial bomb-terrorist. Who "won" against Antagonists. By blowing up everything.
I think that Plot Armour of Sandra was too thick. Setsu and Koiji should have serious shot at killing her, when they were in Frames, and she was not in Frame. Primary because while Sandra is good, she is not Anna. Also Shuri being useless doormat? I mean, what?!
I expected Shuri to not be shocked silly, but simply put Particle Cannon the biggest traitor of humanity ever.
Unlike kids, and unlike Sandra, she is a veteran like Anna ... if much less traumatized.
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It's a parody of Dr. Strange Love.
- Location
- Austria
Ah, yes, good olde Machine Learning approach:
Thanks, I like your explanation, btw.
I think unawoken Valk Cores, at best, qualify as very high level expert systems. They are tremendously capable in their designs parameters, but outside of that they fumble terribly. Give them an engineering/physics problem, they will work wonders. Tell them to make people happy, and they'll stare at you while trying to parse what the parameter 'happy' is.
Also important, is that nothing resembling an owner's manual has ever been found. Humanity has been fumbling in the dark since day one trying to figuring out how to actually use the damn things. There's a difference between "50 years of trial and error" and "Factory certified expert with full backing of the designers".
"Mental extension" is such a nebulous catch all term that I have to shake my head whenever it's thrown around like this. The big things that Cores gives are a neurological accelerator and a really nice super computer with very extensive physics database.
At most a day's delay as translators get to work.
Basically, philosophy.
Everything about the Valkyries, even the UN's own policies for handling its Valks, is designed to get more bodies with cores to throw at the Antagonists. Everything. Including its psychological support system.
This is understandable, they're in a war of extinction as far as they know. But it does mean that Valkyries are encouraged to think in hard data and better ways to crush the Antagonists before them. Social stuff? Don't need it for civilian interaction, Valks understand me. Psychology? Valks are combat troops, not support troops. Dealing with PTSD? Disassociate and get back on the line, there's Antagonists that need to die.
To deal with the social and psychological issues caused by the cores generally upgrading their wielders you need time, time to think, time to talk, time to read and time to write. All time for Valkyries is already assigned. Anything that isn't (tangentially) useful in teaching concepts that you can use to kill Antagonists better and faster and more is not part of your expected schedule, so dump it and get ready to fight.
It's immensely unhealthy, this kind of mind set. At best it gets you soldier class, and given Valkyries and their morale position, influential soldiers. Who do not think like normal people do while having access to the higher levels of power. The UN has probably realised this and would be trying to keep this from being a big problem, but UN High Command is still constrained by the war situation and politics.
Either the UN gets enough Valkyries to start rotating Valkyries into support roles and to figure out how to develop the psychological/moral side of Valkyries as healthily as the physical and the mental, the war ends soon in a victory and Valkyries can start with getting integrated with normals, or there's going to be an eventual take over by Valkyries simply because they are better at everything that matters to them and have the power to make it stick between them. Only question is how bloody the revolution ends up being.
During the spar between Anna and the rest of the flight Kandaraka remarked on Anna and Durga.
Said remark was basically 'this is bullshit.'
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Jonen C
F.M.D.G.
- Location
- Lincopense, Ostrogothia, Suecia
And what that parody lacked was 2nd flight doing a survival kit content check.
- Location
- Austria
This whole discussion on Cores being tailor-made for a set of purposes and thus kinda upgrading people into a certain paths, helped by the circumstances of usage, combined with the possibility of overtake because Valks are better remind me heavily of Exalted thematics.
Don't forget improved version of eidetic memory with unlimited database space to store the memories with no distortion, coupled with ability to recall and analyze them at any angle at any moment.
Don't forget improved version of eidetic memory with unlimited database space to store the memories with no distortion, coupled with ability to recall and analyze them at any angle at any moment.
- Location
- Plato's Cave
Can someone point me to where evidence of this is shown? Because I can't remember seeing it when I've read through the thread, and I'm not a long-term reader here so most discussions like this had come and gone by the time I found this.
Or the Daodan Chrysalis from Oni.
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It's worth noting that the 1st and 2nd gen Valks, who basically ARE the higher ranks of the Valk Corps, have nowhere near the same level of problems. The 1st Gen were, typically, fully grown adults with established neurological patterns when they got their cores, and the 2nd gen predate the existence of what we would consider an organized training regime. It's the more recent batches that have truly suffered from the demands of expediency.
Additionally, I think it's unlikely that the original designers intended for the cores to be bonded to still developing minds and immediately thrown into the battlefield. Again, there is a distinct lack of what would be considered "Factory Certified Experts" anywhere in the solar system, so we still don't really know just what exactly the cores actually are or how they were meant to be used.
Additionally, I think it's unlikely that the original designers intended for the cores to be bonded to still developing minds and immediately thrown into the battlefield. Again, there is a distinct lack of what would be considered "Factory Certified Experts" anywhere in the solar system, so we still don't really know just what exactly the cores actually are or how they were meant to be used.
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
I forgot this existed, then just spent an entire day working through somewhere around sixty thousand words.
That escalated quickly.
Poor Anna, and all these dumb people stepping on her buttons.
That escalated quickly.
Poor Anna, and all these dumb people stepping on her buttons.
It's somewhere in the text. Well, implied in the text of the quest.
Watch this space, I'm going for an archive trawl into the depths of Avalanche's updates.
Found it @Krika:
Although not quite in the text, the context with all other data available makes this clear.
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