Note, I'm expecting "wight lord" refers to anything from a wight who commands half a dozen undead warriors to the CR 17 Blightfire-wielding Mythic Motherfucker we fought. Who was a Winterwight, not a Wight Lord.

It's a generic title. I expect they fought things like the one wight Valaena fought at the Wall.
That is a fair guess, but I'm thinking that the closer proximity to the Lands of Always Winter make them more powerful or something. Apparently they needed to be stabbed with the Sacrifice Spear to actually be killed. That's considerably tougher than the wight Valaena fought.
 
Somehow even with the horror of what you are seeing you still have the presence of mind to realize the thing thinks the ravens are Bloodraven's. In a sense you suppose they are, for you felt his featherlight touch upon the spell. You had thought it merely to allow the staff to function in such an accursed place, but now you see that like with so many workings of the Last Greenseer's mind the true purpose was deception.

"Did you lead some foolish goatherd into looking here, hoping for glory or power?" the dreadful voice asks mockingly. Then rising to a dreadful screech like the full fury of a blizzard hurled out in an instant it calls, "Arise now and redeem your failures, kill the fool's tools and then slake yourself upon all who cross your path!"

The icy plinth in the center of the room shatters and out of it emerges a figure out of nightmare. Its flesh is blackened by frostbite and withered upon its bones, its form wreathed in pale flame, its eyes burning with the same dreadful light as the once children, bearing a sword of cursed ice... only the remnants of ancient bronze armor still marks that this had once been a man. From dreams old as flame and ice you know this thing, not by whatever name it had once borne and befouled in the days of Dawn, but by the purpose its foul masters would put it.


The horror turns to the ravens and says in a voice like death: "I suppose I aught to thank you, meddler. Had you not interfered my penance would not have ended until Nightfall."
A drop of gold in a sea of silver flies... and swift as death the ice sword moves to meet it, cleaving it in twine ere it can find its mark. Bloodless lips draw back into what might be a snarl of rage or some dreadful grin. "I am abroad... and loose... and I will not be put back!" the accursed warrior grates, and in a whirl of snow and broken light that seems to pierce the eye it vanishes from the chamber, just as Dany is finishing her incantation.
So does Braga, warrior of Thenn, take up his bow of wood and horn, an heirloom of times gone by, and shoots an arrow upon the foe of his people. A thing of common wood tipped with sharpened flint, a thing that could no more pierce the armor of sorcery and frost than a man could dig through stone with his fingernails, but the Ancient Wight Lord is a prideful thing, cutting the arrow from the air rather than letting it strike him.

As he is thus distracted you cast a second sphere of amber with words and will of binding. This one shatters against his armor, enveloping it whole in yet another coffin.

With a horrid keening the remaining wight children gouge out their hungering eyes and cast them into the center of the room... the chamber rings with the shrill call of the worms in dreadful cacophony, but nothing answers, nothing can, you understand with vicious satisfaction. Winter had overplayed its hand in this place.

"Flawed, wretched thing..." The voice of emptiness fades.
Okay, from the above:

1. The Mythic Ancient Wight Lord had failed the Others somehow, and was trapped in the icy plinth and serving some form of penance.
2. The fact that we used our Runestaff of the Old Gods was what allowed him to get free in the first place.
3. I'm also guessing that had we not accidentally freed him, whatever the wight children tried to summon would have had enough power to manifest and face us.
4. The "Flawed, wretched thing" was indeed because the Others regarded the Mythic Ancient Wight Lord as a failure.
 
I was more thinking that Lasciel has the potential to become Lash, small part of her did so after all?

Changing the whole of the demon is a somewhat larger project, but Viserys does not shy back from changing gods, so it's far from unthinkable.
'Lash' was not the real Fallen angel, she was just a imprint or shadow of the original thing on Dresden's mind, her existence as a mere imprint on a mortal mind is what made her malleable to some extent. The same is likely not true of the real thing.

As for killing Lasciel, I am not sure that is even possible or at least practical.
 
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Za? Little confused, actually, as to where this is coming from. Is it just the inability of Viserys to Plane Shift out, or something else?

Something is stopping not only plane-shift but summoning and any sort of communication with the gods back home e too. That has to be rather strong.

This brings up several questions.

1. How many wight lords were there?
2. How strong were the wight lords compared to the Mythic Ancient Wight Lord we just captured?
3. How strong is Magnar that he managed to kill them?
4. How many wight lords are left? If we're evacuating the Thenn we'll need to clear out all the barrows before we go.
  1. No one is quite sure
  2. Probably much weaker
  3. You have not seen him fight to guess but I guess a small spoiler would not be that bad here. Styr is level 13 and he has level appropriate gear, maybe even a little over-leveled.
  4. See above
 
I was more thinking that Lasciel has the potential to become Lash, small part of her did so after all?

Um...ah! Yeah, pretty much this:

'Lash' was not the real Fallen angel, she was just a imprint or shadow of the original thing on Dresden's mind, her existence as a mere imprint is what made her malleable to some extent. The same is likely not true of the real thing.

As for killing Lasciel, I am not sure that is even possible or at least practical.

Also the fact that she's currently stuck in the Vault of the Lord of the Underworld. Oh, and the Fallen are, like their counterparts, categorically incapable of free will. This means that they actively cannot change. And trying to alter that would be trying to fight the White God. Who is omnipotent in the 'can make a boulder He could not lift and then lift it anyway' kind of way.

That is not going to end well.
 
Something is stopping not only plane-shift but summoning and any sort of communication with the gods back home e too. That has to be rather strong.


  1. No one is quite sure
  2. Probably much weaker
  3. You have not seen him fight to guess but I guess a small spoiler would not be that bad here. Styr is level 13 and he has level appropriate gear, maybe even a little over-leveled.
  4. See above
... This sounds like a perfect place to level people up when the Thenns are evacuated.
 
Also the fact that she's currently stuck in the Vault of the Lord of the Underworld. Oh, and the Fallen are, like their counterparts, categorically incapable of free will. This means that they actively cannot change. And trying to alter that would be trying to fight the White God. Who is omnipotent in the 'can make a boulder He could not lift and then lift it anyway' kind of way.

That is not going to end well.

That's not entirely true. At least not in the crossover cosmology. Viserys has personally experienced a place where the WG was not omnipotent therefore since the term allows no exceptions the WG cannot be truly omnipotent. That is the sort of distinction a dragon who conquered the world would draw. Not that I am saying he would take up the challenge lightly, but given enough provocation he would.
 
The White God is probably just going to go "how cute" and let him try as long as he is willing to face the consequences. It likes mortal to have free will.

Edit: Hmm, I wonder if fucking with a Fallen angel like that will allow Old Lucifer to act against Viserys.
 
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I'm guessing just how strong Styr is will depend on what classes he has in that 13 levels (probably a number of Barbarian class plus something else). And on top of that just how strong can he be if he gets blinged out by the best that Viserys can equip him with?
 
Something is stopping not only plane-shift but summoning and any sort of communication with the gods back home e too. That has to be rather strong.


  1. No one is quite sure
  2. Probably much weaker
  3. You have not seen him fight to guess but I guess a small spoiler would not be that bad here. Styr is level 13 and he has level appropriate gear, maybe even a little over-leveled.
  4. See above
Also, I am very excited about this gear. He's probably rocking a whole bunch of runecrafted stuff.

... wait a minute... @DragonParadox, was the reason that the Thenn's magic items still worked that:

1) All of it was runecrafted and more resilient in nature
2) The Land-Wards were designed to retain magic?
 
The first thing he would do in that situation would be to try and convert every last worshiper of the WG to see if that lessens his power. 'Cute' is not how I would describe the reaction.
Something that will take centuries, even if it works and considering the power of White God's servant, it might just decide to let The Arch-angels work slightly more freely to shut down Viserys, if it actually cares Enough. Multiple Arch-angels with intellectus is not something Viserys can outscheme ever.
 
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Um...ah! Yeah, pretty much this:



Also the fact that she's currently stuck in the Vault of the Lord of the Underworld. Oh, and the Fallen are, like their counterparts, categorically incapable of free will. This means that they actively cannot change. And trying to alter that would be trying to fight the White God. Who is omnipotent in the 'can make a boulder He could not lift and then lift it anyway' kind of way.

That is not going to end well.
They Fell.

That implies the potential to change, they have done so after all.
 
Something that will take centuries, even if it works and considering the power of White God's servant, it might just decide to let The Arch-angels work slightly more freely to shut down Viserys. Multiple Arch-angels with intellectus is not something Viserys can outscheme ever.
  1. Viserys has centuries, millennia even (again given the caveat that he is not hurrying home)
  2. Which would count as Viserys compelling the WG to action. I'm not entirely sure how well He would take that.
  3. Stage two in fighting a seemingly omnipotent being within a closed system would be to crack the system open
I would like to reiterate that Viserys would be extraordinarily unlikely to ever attempt this. These are just the steps I think he would use.
 
We have fuck-thousand research projects right now, so that will have to wait a bit longer.
Do you have a rough order of priority worked out for Lya's research? I was thinking we save ourselves the sacrifice and have her poke at it when we return the visiting Thenns back to their holdfast and prepare for evacuation.

@DragonParadox, how long would it take for Lya to study the Land Wards? My thinking was she just needs a bit of time to observe the effects in the real world and the dreamlands along with learning the maintenance rituals to be able to reverse engineer it.
 
Do you have a rough order of priority worked out for Lya's research? I was thinking we save ourselves the sacrifice and have her poke at it when we return the visiting Thenns back to their holdfast and prepare for evacuation.
@DragonParadox, how long would it take for Lya to study the Land Wards? My thinking was she just needs a bit of time to observe the effects in the real world and the dreamlands along with learning the maintenance rituals to be able to reverse engineer it.
Given that she already has a good background in rune-crafting I would say it's a 15 progress research action.
Will add that in an hour or so.

Also, @Duesal, we indeed have a fuckton of research, but we also don't have the numbers for many, many projects listed.
And amongst those listed, some need to be redone to account for changed mechanics.

So giving a preliminary estimate before very end if this month, when I'll nag at DP to do this, is unlikely.
 
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Do you have a rough order of priority worked out for Lya's research? I was thinking we save ourselves the sacrifice and have her poke at it when we return the visiting Thenns back to their holdfast and prepare for evacuation.

@DragonParadox, how long would it take for Lya to study the Land Wards? My thinking was she just needs a bit of time to observe the effects in the real world and the dreamlands along with learning the maintenance rituals to be able to reverse engineer it.
No, there's just a hundred notions about what to research floating around. And this isn't even getting into the bits I would like to prioritise.
 
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