Dresden files describes their fall basically as pre destined. As god never gave them free will in the first place.

Basically its like a play except they all actually feel emotions incredibly vividly the end is the same though and real.
I don't see a difference between free will and a perfect imitation of it.
If they feel like other beings, then someone from outside the WGs plans and power can most likely help them come to different decisions than predestined.
 
@DragonParadox, so for the Mythic Ancient Wight Lord, after we sacrifice it and I turn it into a trophy—would there be any special bonus to making a Sacrifice Spear out of one of its bones (restoring the trophy immediately afterwards via Make Whole, of course) since it was a Mythic CR 17 Ancient Wight Lord or are all Sacrifice Spears the same?
 
@DragonParadox, so for the Mythic Ancient Wight Lord, after we sacrifice it and I turn it into a trophy—would there be any special bonus to making a Sacrifice Spear out of one of its bones (restoring the trophy immediately afterwards via Make Whole, of course) since it was a Mythic CR 17 Ancient Wight Lord or are all Sacrifice Spears the same?

If you sacrifice it any magical virtue is gone from the bones. It's sacrifice or make something out of it. That said yes weapons made from its bones could be quite potent.
 
I don't see a difference between free will and a perfect imitation of it.
If they feel like other beings, then someone from outside the WGs plans and power can most likely help them come to different decisions than predestined.

You're conflating predestination with how free will appears to work in DF. This is something that we still understand imperfectly through the narrative, though, and the merged metaphysics involved in HT only make explaining it harder.

If you have access to The Warrior, I'd seriously give it a read. It's a very good primer on this, in my opinion - it certainly helped me.
 
This is so sad, and re-iterates the WG's cuntery.
Eh he might have good reason for it for all I know. Though yes from what we know the white god does sound like a bit of a cunt. I mean some of the fallen clearly fell becAuse they fell in love. I mean some of them were cannibalistic baby eaters but still. Seems like the behavior of a cunt. Though I don't know there could be legitimate reasons for it.
 
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Oh ffs. I disagree with the statement you quoted, quite strongly in fact.
Fair enough. I'm not complaining about possibly being wrong. Though it would be nice if you actually said why. Instead of coming off as just disagreeing because I said it.


Its like critiquing someone without any actual input.
 
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Oh ffs. I disagree with the statement you quoted, quite strongly in fact.

I can't see where it flagrantly missteps and it's an evocative image representative enough of how I understand the situation.

Look, the thing is you cannot have a situation where you are all powerful and constrained by circumstances. You're either flawed or at fault, maybe both but never neither.
 
I can't see where it flagrantly missteps and it's an evocative image representative enough of how I understand the situation.

Look, the thing is you cannot have a situation where you are all powerful and constrained by circumstances. You're either flawed or at fault, maybe both but never neither.

Free Will cannot endure a world where the White God acts.

The literal point of the angels as far as we know is to ensure that a mortal's right to exert their will and make choices is protected. This has some holes in it, I admit - ahem, Molly - but it's probably one of the better ways at looking at it.

The angels, as Uriel says to Dresden in the Warrior, act in the pursuit of a better world, but they can't truly modify things due to Free Will. They just...make sure that mortals are able to make their choices. And if they can have multiple good returns from a single act, they'll game the system as hard as possible to get as many of them as they can.

They won't protect you from the consequences of your choice, to be clear. But they'll make sure that you can make it.
 
Then the fact that the WG cannot change this paradigm or change human nature such as both Free Will and His capacity to act can exist at the same time means that He is constrained by circumstance.
It could be seen as him constraining himself though

It seems reasonable to assume if out there that he created the fallen and demons or whatever to ensure some form of balance. Wtf that is could be lots of things like good and bad or subjective morality stuff. I mean he could just be a cunt or an eldrich god of unfathomable means. I mean that is way way way out there and im98% that the latter isn't true. But really who knows.
 
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So we've decided that the white god is either infallible and thus a total cunt, or can make mistakes like any other albeit immensely powerful.

What a wonderful world.
 
On the bright side star wars is still a force for good. Wonder when the last time Dresden watched a movie. Also poor Dresden he will never be able to watch the newer sequels as a wizard. actually he could probably do something like what he did on the late night show he was on. Though given he is probably even more paranoid these days I don't know if she should be watching a movie out in the open.
 
Then the fact that the WG cannot change this paradigm or change human nature such as both Free Will and His capacity to act can exist at the same time means that He is constrained by circumstance.

I think I'm gonna have to default to the view espoused so efficiently by @spiritualatheist :V

I do think that there's an answer buried here, that is a lot more complex than 'He's a douchnozzle' but I don't have time right now to delve. Three hour drive yaaaaay...
 
Id like to think the white god is just fallible more than anything its a nicer thought really.

Well good night people I have college in 7 hours and I've been up for like 20. I've taken melatonin and I've got insomnia hope no one else has sleep problems. What is it like 11am for do or something? Do you live in Europe or something dp?
 
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@DragonParadox, what kind of action and how much progress do we need for a new Terminus in Amun Kelisk?

Edit: *crosses fingers and hopes it's just enchanting time and no action at all*
 
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