- Location
- Australia
Europe is cold, European room temperature is cold, mystery solved.
Courtesy of Australia, where it is not cold.
A Sword Without a Hilt: A Song of Ice and Fire/D&D 3.5 Crossover
- Thread starter DragonParadox
- Start date
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- a song of ice and fire a sword without a hilt d&d 3.5 dungeons & dragons 100% high octane dragon fuel ave corvidae battle action dragon diplomacy best sister bureaucromancy delicious soul-stuff dragon dreams come true dragon ta'veren greatest uncle hubris is a coward's word in defiance of gods and men mammon's folly mutually assured mage's disjunction qm murderhobo top tier coatl
Europe is cold, European room temperature is cold, mystery solved.
Courtesy of Australia, where it is not cold.
Algalon
Herald of the Titans
- Location
- Celestial Planetarium
First off, that's why I said a Septon of fitting temperament and theological orientation. The one from the Riverlands for example had no problem with us, and that one Reachmen farmer - who was one of the first immigrants too boot - also managed to rationalize his faith so it doesn't contradict whatever Viserys was doing. We've already seen that while the Father's Chosen is hostile, Dannelle, the Maiden's Chosen, seemed to have no problem with us and indeed was trying to arrange peace between us and the Faith.
As for all the tenets that the Targaryens simply break by existing... well, the Seven't haven't smitten them yet, have they. Neither have they done anything for the last 300 years where the Targaryens were the Protectors of the Faith. Obviously, the incest ban is for Andals only, Valyrians can do that if they want
Anyway, the purpose of this is to organize the faithful of the Seven within our realm. This allows to get a pulse on their interpretation of their Faith, allowing us to identify any radicals or zealots that could become problematic, while slowly convert non-conformists to a version of the Faith that accepts Viserys' rule. If the Seven come into contact, even better. Now we can talk about their role in our realm, including Westeros which will soon be annexed as well, and see about how to end the feud between them and the Old Gods as well as discuss the threat of the White Walkers.
All in all however, it's to get the legitimacy that the Andal faith provides. Having a Sept in SD or even more in other provinces would go a long way towards assuaging the fears of the Westerosi populance and nobility of Viserys being a heretical monster that comes to destroy all Septs. Take Darry for example. He is now part of the Loyalist group Manford Velaryon is building, yet he is still nervous of what he hears about Viserys. Being publically known to have build a magnificent Sept would give our supporters a strong argument against such accusations.
Even better, if our Sept becomes famous enough, either through the size of its following or through its magnificence (I'm certain Viserys can designt something more impressive than Baelor's or the Starry Sept) then we could actually gain influence within the Conclave of the Most Devout. This would serve as a powerful mechanism through which we can pacify the smallfolk of Westeros and attack the legitimacy of zealots.
- Location
- ?????????
First off, that's why I said a Septon of fitting temperament and theological orientation. The one from the Riverlands for example had no problem with us, and that one Reachmen farmer - who was one of the first immigrants too boot - also managed to rationalize his faith so it doesn't contradict whatever Viserys was doing. We've already seen that while the Father's Chosen is hostile, Dannelle, the Maiden's Chosen, seemed to have no problem with us and indeed was trying to arrange peace between us and the Faith.
As for all the tenets that the Targaryens simply break by existing... well, the Seven't haven't smitten them yet, have they. Neither have they done anything for the last 300 years where the Targaryens were the Protectors of the Faith. Obviously, the incest ban is for Andals only, Valyrians can do that if they want
Anyway, the purpose of this is to organize the faithful of the Seven within our realm. This allows to get a pulse on their interpretation of their Faith, allowing us to identify any radicals or zealots that could become problematic, while slowly convert non-conformists to a version of the Faith that accepts Viserys' rule. If the Seven come into contact, even better. Now we can talk about their role in our realm, including Westeros which will soon be annexed as well, and see about how to end the feud between them and the Old Gods as well as discuss the threat of the White Walkers.
All in all however, it's to get the legitimacy that the Andal faith provides. Having a Sept in SD or even more in other provinces would go a long way towards assuaging the fears of the Westerosi populance and nobility of Viserys being a heretical monster that comes to destroy all Septs. Take Darry for example. He is now part of the Loyalist group Manford Velaryon is building, yet he is still nervous of what he hears about Viserys. Being publically known to have build a magnificent Sept would give our supporters a strong argument against such accusations.
Even better, if our Sept becomes famous enough, either through the size of its following or through its magnificence (I'm certain Viserys can designt something more impressive than Baelor's or the Starry Sept) then we could actually gain influence within the Conclave of the Most Devout. This would serve as a powerful mechanism through which we can pacify the smallfolk of Westeros and attack the legitimacy of zealots.
See one problem with all this is that
1. The Seven, or at least the more problematic aspects, have deemed us to be worse that the others
2. We have planned to do some significant humbling to the faith.
3. We shouldn't help our enemy till after they stop being such so no building projects
4. Yeah sure a small to medium sept is fine to assuage fears but a grand sept can die in the water
5. Danielle is hopefully reasonable. She would be a fine lever for a schism
All in all while yes I would love to have schism within the faith but I'm not supporting building temples till the schisms reach critical mass.
- Location
- Germany
i don't think we should try to make nice with the Seven.
Maybe with the Four or Five, after we are done with them, that's acceptable.
Maybe with the Four or Five, after we are done with them, that's acceptable.
- Location
- United States
Or. And here me out here. We don't ignore the problem until it solves itself, and actually encourage the sect of the Faith which is compatible with our existence and rule!
But not too much. Or the Old Gods might realize we and Bloodraven are all but openly working to make their revenge less destructive than originally intended.
- Location
- United States
That's not exactly a secret, man. And in any case they never demanded we exterminate the Seven, so no matter what we need to create a version of it compatible with the Empire. I'm just advocating we start doing that now. Because there's literally no reason to not.
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- ?????????
Sure as soon as the pantheon head doesn't have ambitions of murdering us and monopolizing magic.
Sure but what I'm saying is we shouldn't seem to friendly with them until the vengeance is done. Specially because we won't make any headway anyways until we show that no, trying to kill us won't work. And that will only happen after we deliver a fairly decisive beating to the Seven's mortal representatives.
Any work on the new version done before the Gods themselves are ready to accept change is likely to be wasted.
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- Location
- Germany
And immortal.
Now with Baelor we know the have some angelic servants.
- Location
- United States
That is never going to happen on its own. What you're basically advocating is just not coming to an understanding with the Faith of the Seven.
I think the deal is that you two aren't thinking of the Faith as a religion. We aren't trying to go to their table and negotiate, we are taking their worshipers and influencing what they worship. Gods are powerful, yes, but they derive that from their worshipers. Change the worship, you change the god.
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- ?????????
Priest: Oh hey this is my interpretation of the Faith
Father in his dreams: Heresy. It is heresy. Also fuck mages
Priest: Wowie thanks Father. I was such a heathen.
That is how I imagine it would go. All I am saying is that first we need to beat them up then we need to pick them up and fix them. I am saying wait not don't do it ever. Like maybe till after we stab the Father in his side and the Warrior too. Fuck that guy. Also change the worship is rather hard considering we cant directly involve our selves in faith politics currently. As for the big temple plan what is stopping the zealots from infiltrating the temple? Are we going to put a divination chain on it? What is stopping the Starry sept and the Baelors sept from infiltrating those temples. Just shuffle a few priests around or better yet teleport people in.
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Crake
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING
- Location
- USA
DP says (not even sure this has to be houseruled) that you can cast under your top-most capabilities, using whatever number of CL for a spell as you desire.
It is just assumed (and obviously prudent) to cast at full capabilities in a life or death battle.
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- ?????????
Goddam duelling. This is 18th century Europe all over again. There has to be better ways to solve their grievances. Well if they want to fight should we also introduce the 10 Duel commandments? Might as well if they want to go there
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- Location
- Germany
Problem is the real, living, active gods have a much easier time keeping their religion in line than we have changing it.
The god can send visions, outsider-servants, at need even an Avatar to set his followers straight.
There is a very cheap magic item that tells you "Would my god approve of this?" At will.
Phylactery of Faithfulness – d20PFSRD
I don't see how we could manipulate any really faithful if gods have such easy options to make their actual will known in this high-magic world.
- Location
- The internet
Have we actually seen evidence of this in universe? We've seen that the Old Gods don't give a tinwhistle shit about worship so I doubt that's the case for them, but they might be an exception given thier unique structure.
- Location
- Israel
I'd recommend developing a talisman dedicated to stepping through one mirror to reach another - not enough to move armies, but highly convenient.
A few portable holes + the above / erinyes teleporting, you have instant transport for high level valuables, necessary army provisions or general commerce (though using erinyes for the last is probably inadvisable).
A few portable holes + the above / erinyes teleporting, you have instant transport for high level valuables, necessary army provisions or general commerce (though using erinyes for the last is probably inadvisable).
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- ?????????
Yss is also pretty much an exception as his only commandment is to honour deals. Alien creatures aside Bloodraven has gone into the dreams but that could more because of the Old Gods and their domain
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- Location
- United States
Then why hasn't that happened already? There's already a significant amount of FotS worshipers in our domain, priests who push against the orthodoxy in Westeros. Yet there's been no holy host coming from the heavens and laying down the law. It's clear that Gods have a limited amount of direct influence, and almost always act through their champions. And we can fight Luncan Longfield on much more even terms.
I think you're exaggerating the ability of Gods to directly intervene. For example, why hasn't Rhllor done something about us being proclaimed Azor Azhai? Pretty sure he ain't thrilled about that little bit.
- Location
- Australia
Best done after we bind him to our realm more closely through Divine Source contracting, reminder Yss still doesn't give a fuck about us, only profit.
There are still people arguing not to kill Tor, doesn't seem like a minor action to me.
Shouldn't the Silver Eye be subsumed, mages are to answer to the Scholarum first and foremost, this arrangement would undermine that, the Inquisitors should be Inquisitors only.
Wasn't there talk of the sword potentially belonging to House Rogare?
- Location
- Germany
yes, some evidence with Yss.
He has been changed a bit, by constantly associating him with trade and deals.
Though not enough to flip a domain yet, so it's relativly superficial for now.
Algalon
Herald of the Titans
- Location
- Celestial Planetarium
1. Only the Father has, and to his Chosen only. Whom the Maiden's chosen refers to as an idiot.
2. And this does not run counter to that.
3. This isn't helping our enemy. It's a poisoned gift at best. The Sept is on our land, staffed by clerics chosen and vetted by us, and will be visited by people who came to SD even with all the negative propaganda and then experienced all the good Viserys did. They're not going to buy any calls to action against us, meaning that any Zealot that tries to radicalize will get reported, allowing us to purge SD of hostile elements.
4. The grander the Sept the greater our influence over the Faith. We can't ignore the Seven and it's faithful. Westeros is full of people who worship the Seven and can be swayed by religion. Refusing to engage them on religious grounds will just deliver them on a silver plate to our enemies who will simply decry us as a heretic and demon. You can't rule a continent when the peasants think you're literally Satan. This would only lead to the rise of the Faith Militant, which is a huge mess we don't want. Oldtown has the Starry Sept, King's Landing Baelor's Sept. If we want to justify control over the clergy, then we need a seat that surpasses both so we can move the Conclave to SD once we take Westeros. We don't want them to plot far away from our eyes and hands.
5. Thing is, she won't start or cause a schism on her own. She's the Maiden's chosen, and the Maiden is known to be all about mercy and selflessness. She won't cooperate with us to destroy or take over the Faith for no reason. We can show that we are reasonable and there's a place for the Seven under us as well, if they conform to our laws. Our influence in the faith would then serve as both carrot and strick. Stick because could fracture the faith on our own, and carrot because we could spread the messages her patron actually wants spread thus preventing further chaos.
The Schism is not going to reach critical mass by itself. The clergy are clearly starting to adapt to circumstances. First the High Septon toady get's replaced by someone more zealous (who also just happened to be related to a Reacher Lord), now there's a Council to discuss and interpret theology in light of the coming of magic. Meanwhile, the Chosen have done nothing to confront or truly discredit the clergy, which means that all their acts contribute to the legitimacy of the official Faith, instead of creating an alternative faction, so people will trust the Septons more, instead of less.
Peasant: That doesn't sound right. Mages are nice! I'll believe Emperor Viserys, who has done so much good for us, more than some voice in your dreams! It's probably a demon in your head! I'll report you for being possessed!
Inquisitor: Your preaching is against the law. You are hereby expelled from the estate of the Clergy as outline in the Imperial Constitution. Also, you will need to come with us to talk about the voices in your head...
New Priest: Hello! I like mages and think that Emperor Viserys has the Father's Wisdom, the Warrior's Chivalry, the Maiden's Mercy and all the other virtues too!
Peasant: Yay!
That's how I imagine it would go. We have not seen any indication that the Seven are talking to others beyond their Chosen. From the Danelle interlude we even heard that one fey saying that the Father should let his Chosen die and 'roll the bones'. This does not seem indicative that they can talk to as many people as they want.
Waiting until they are beat is foolish. It means conceding the usage of religion as a weapon. If only their narrative about Viserys being a monstrous prevails, then we'll have to deal with a continent full of enemies. By pushing forward our own Septons with Viserys and Imperium-friendly interpretations, we can muddle the waters, making people insecure or outright move them towards our side.
We need to start early so that once the conquest happens we'll have our own infrastructure in place to simply supplant the previous one. We are rising our own Anti-Pope, or Anti-Septon if you want. It'll raise our legitimacy in the eyes of the Westerosi while undermining the one of our religious enemies.
- Location
- The internet
Unrelated, but this shit right here is why being a god is a bum deal. If someone was walking around proclaiming themselves to be our chosen one and doing the opposite of what we want, we handle that shit. Meanwhile Burny has to sit on the sidelines and watch while we jack his whole mythos, apparently
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- Location
- Germany
Only by a tiny fraction of his Faith so far.
He did come down with a personal investment in that Lyseni Oracle, over a relativly minor matter, so he clearly can take direct influence if he wants to.
- Location
- United States
I asked, and DP confirmed that it does not belong to House Rogare. However, DP did say that we can support Shara Rogare in hunting down Truth and reclaiming it. It's hers by right.
@egoo
-[] Give Shara whatever support she needs in hunting down Truth and reclaiming it for her house. This will cement her new beginnings as your vassal. Loan her Wayfinders and Inquisition agents when necessary.