Update: I might be showing a plumber around the house later, so I might not have the time for some more serious posting, and I've got a potentially early shift tomorrow as well. Should still leave me plenty of time before Day End but... Yeah.
Update: I might be showing a plumber around the house later, so I might not have the time for some more serious posting, and I've got a potentially early shift tomorrow as well. Should still leave me plenty of time before Day End but... Yeah.
Oh yeah, did a read through on Ban before but started feeling bad and lost my quotes. The main thing I remember noting was the odd amount of scum he was predicting along with the expectation of neutrals. Six scum with neutrals initially, and then four or five scum and the game being neutral heavy are things I recall as seeming odd, but I can't remember anything actually actionable that pulled my attention.
Gonna go grab some Meso quotes now. Try to anyways, we'll see if I have time to finish doing that.
I've been asleep, not lurking, but sure. I don't particularly like either the Comi or Absum lynch. If I had to choose one it'd probably be Comi because I didn't like the way he was responding to Nictis, but while I agree that voting every round is extremely important getting on bandwagons I don't particularly like two days early seems premature.
I was referring to your general acting throughout Day 3 and Day 2, not just while the Comi thing has been going on. Mind you, you have been a bit busy so it's understandable that you won't appear often, but I am not content to let you slip under the radar after you were scum last game without me detecting it. Therefore, I want you to tell me more of your thoughts over this game and the various people beyond merely the lynches going on.
Oh yeah, did a read through on Ban before but started feeling bad and lost my quotes. The main thing I remember noting was the odd amount of scum he was predicting along with the expectation of neutrals. Six scum with neutrals initially, and then four or five scum and the game being neutral heavy are things I recall as seeming odd, but I can't remember anything actually actionable that pulled my attention.
Gonna go grab some Meso quotes now. Try to anyways, we'll see if I have time to finish doing that.
To tell the honest to God truth? This is my third game, and the first one where I both started and made it past night 1. I'm not good at set-up spec and gave that number because I thought I remembered scum being 1/3 of the total, rather than 1/3 the size or 1/4 of the total.
Read into it if you want, but it was just me being dumb as hard as that is to admit 🤷♂️
That does remind me. I forgot to go back to Ban's answer
I was referring to your general acting throughout Day 3 and Day 2, not just while the Comi thing has been going on. Mind you, you have been a bit busy so it's understandable that you won't appear often, but I am not content to let you slip under the radar after you were scum last game without me detecting it. Therefore, I want you to tell me more of your thoughts over this game and the various people beyond merely the lynches going on.
I don't think I've been lurking nearly as much day 3, but fair (in fact with this post we'll be tied on the who replied). I also only lived for one day before getting SK'd last game so understandable that I slipped under the radar
Now, general thoughts on the game and the people... Noone is standing up to Nictis. They might be town, might be scum, but noone is really acting as a counter to their force of personality.
Additionally a lot of people, but mainly Eva and Comi, are acting fucking bizarre. I've never really played with either so maybe this is just how they are, but their actions are just confusing as fuck to me and read scummy.
Going into the day my strong town reads were Interstellar and Cyri, but then neither one has said much more than me and I'm being accused of trying to sneak under the radar sooooo
Happerry and Dimension are both being inactive as fuck, and I think Eva latching onto Dimension's inactivity while totally ignoring Happerry's is questionable. Normally it would make me think investigative, but she's a self-proffessed neighbor. My next thought is that she's in a mason or scum chat rather than a neighborhood, both of which would help explain things.
Absum is... Absum? This is reading like how they always play, tbh, and I really dislike how people are latching onto it. Same with 1k, though in the opposite direction. She's reading town, but she's also reading like how she always reads and she's always town so idk.
I do think it is strange that QT was targeted. They weren't especially active, and they voted for the Rosen lynch, which would have made them look potentially more suspicious than someone who never supported that lynch. The fluff of their role included them being a "game keeper" which makes me wonder if they had a power role like tracker. If scum had a rolecop, would they have been able to use that power and get results before selecting a nightkill in most games?
A couple questions about role blocking. I assume town role blockers could accidentally block town PRs, right? Would the person being blocked see anything if they didn't have a night action to block? And does the blocker normally get any feedback about whether they blocked an action or just wasted their move?
Sorry, didn't mean to be fishing. I just wasn't clear whether saying "I was roleblocked" was equivalent to "I had a role and it was blocked" or just "somebody used a roleblocking power on me". It seems it is the latter.
That's why I didn't tag you specifically to ask. It doesn't benefit us to give any clues about PRs at this point. But I needed to know what was implied by your claim. It is one of the handful of clear sources of information from this whole day, and the only one that makes sense to me. I would have asked in the general mafia thread but I didn't want to look like I was discussing the game outside this thread.
So it appears all this tells us is somebody is a roleblocker or jailer.
I wanted to know if having a power was implicit in being roleblocked. If so, Nani would presumably intend to share that information. If not, no more info has been provided. Like I said up above, the only reason I didn't ask in the general mafia thread was because I didn't want to be perceived as talking about the game in a separate thread.
These all feel like new player fishing, and give me a good feel. It feels like Meso is trying to figure out game mechanics and the setup rather than digging for specific info (aside from the bit on if Roleblocked=PR, but that is explained well enough for me)
I wonder if they might have been a lyncher, or maybe having something like a one shot day/night kill and a single target they needed to identify. Given the general oddity of the set up, a single target makes more sense than usual.
Checked the posts before, this is the first mention of it for the day and is surprisingly on point from someone who supposedly isn't informed. I can see two possibilities. One is good, the other is alarming. Pretty sure it's the first but... Well, Certain Town or Certain Doom.
These are really early pushes for a claim from Absum, continuing off of Absum's Day 2 offering of claiming if about to be lynched. Somewhat concerning, but probably not actually bad? This is the only real role fishing I can see.
The 'one shot day/night kill' speculation was one of the reasons I said Meso felt somewhat off to me, though in general last time I looked at his posts it felt like there was something I couldn't put my finger on. Or my gut feelings are misleading me, who knows.
Honestly, regardless of whether DG is scum or not, I feel that the targeting of people with night actions in the world of a scum!rber wasn't based on knowledge of Nani's role, but rather a systematic targeting of vets done by a very paranoid scum team. Note how the biggest voices, that is myself, Nictis, etc, haven't been targeted. It seems like an earlier hypothesis of mine that I think I mentioned is somewhat accurate: scum is killing vets, but avoiding the 'obvious' targets to play around protective roles, watchers, etc.
It seems vanishingly unlikely that scum both RBed and rolecopped Nani n1, wich was the only point they could've copped them before killing them. That's also dependant on scum having a rolecop. Given Nani's posting, I really can't see how you would get 'captain of the guard' out of it. It seems more like they're working through the potentially dangerous town voices while trying to be unpredictable. This makes sense if scum knew that their gameplan was to take down one target.
Frankly, the more I think about it the more I think the theory @Nictis presents is just overcomplicated given that the current situation is adequately explained by a normal maf team. Sure, I might be proven wrong, but I'm gonna continue operating under the assumption that we're up against a regular killing maf team. Assassins are thematic, sure, and they fit with LttL being called one, but it didn't really seem like LttL would've been restricted to only killing once from what we saw of their flavor. I also think it's dangerous gor us all to assume Nictis is right, so I at least will continue things from my own angle.
The 'one shot day/night kill' speculation was one of the reasons I said Meso felt somewhat off to me, though in general last time I looked at his posts it felt like there was something I couldn't put my finger on. Or my gut feelings are misleading me, who knows.
This is my first game, but I spent a while reading through the mafiascum wiki and I watched the last two games to try to prepare so my contribution would be somewhere south of 90% confused flailing.
These are really early pushes for a claim from Absum, continuing off of Absum's Day 2 offering of claiming if about to be lynched. Somewhat concerning, but probably not actually bad? This is the only real role fishing I can see.
I don't want to give scum any more information, but I am also pretty desperate for another source of information. Several players aren't posting much, we've lost three townies, and if my guess is right, we've yet to take out a member of the main scum team. I'd really like something firmer to go on so we don't lynch town, because we're almost certain to lose someone to a night kill tonight.
Absum is on my unfortunately not as short as I'd like list of people to vote for, so more data on them would be useful in narrowing things down.
Frankly, the more I think about it the more I think the theory @Nictis presents is just overcomplicated given that the current situation is adequately explained by a normal maf team. Sure, I might be proven wrong, but I'm gonna continue operating under the assumption that we're up against a regular killing maf team. Assassins are thematic, sure, and they fit with LttL being called one, but it didn't really seem like LttL would've been restricted to only killing once from what we saw of their flavor. I also think it's dangerous gor us all to assume Nictis is right, so I at least will continue things from my own angle.
I tend to agree. The fluff surrounding LTTL's role really implied an outsider (savage beast person from the south and all that), and their faction name seems unlikely to be the generic faction name, given that the invaders are supposed to be "the black clad legions of Reim" according to the set up.
It seems vanishingly unlikely that scum both RBed and rolecopped Nani n1, wich was the only point they could've copped them before killing them. That's also dependant on scum having a rolecop. Given Nani's posting, I really can't see how you would get 'captain of the guard' out of it. It seems more like they're working through the potentially dangerous town voices while trying to be unpredictable.
Also, while I don't beleive there's a vig, it's possible that LD wanted to throw town a bone by throwing in an anti-scum third party in the form of LttL. I don't know if this is an actual thing, but are there roles that kill people who try to visit/kill the PR in question? Kinda like a landmine rather than an active killer. That'd explain the lack of a n1 kill, and provide something of a substitute for an sk/vig that would have no possibility of killing the Monarch. Not sure that this theory is at all relevant, but the thought's been bouncing around in my head and I wanted to see if that was a thing that exists.
It's going to become obvious that I'm coordinating with people in private, and I don't want others to assume that means I'm scum. I've been burned by that before from the other direction.
The answer to 1KbestK's question " Are you going to explain yourself? ". Really dislike this answer. Voting someone for no reason, and when asked just says "no u".
Yeah, rosen is reading weird to me as well, but frankly I don't know how to read them in general. Their play is very chaotic and often seems intentionally wine-ey. In general this argument seems mostly just weird.
I don't really have any scumreads that I'd consider adequate for lynching atm. Considering the rosen push, considering nictis, considering you. None of it is certain enough.
These are all before Even voted for them. So, they didn't want to vote up the newbies, a position I am sympathetic towards, and didn't jump on -Rosen, someone who we now know were town. Either way, I don't think that this is enough of a reason for Even to lynch 1KbestK.
My conclusion is...
I don't like Evenstars reasoning. So, 1KbestK doesn't want to lynch newbies? Don't want to jump on the -Rosen train? Lynch em.
Still feeling like 1K has a strong chance of being scum. Their tone is off and they've spent the day so far pursuing basically an inactive lynch on me. Rather than writing me off as busy with other shit, they're doubling down on scumreading me because I'm buried under university work and therefore not super on my game. Plus, y'know, doing shit in the neighbourhood.
I'll self-pres to -Rosen if that ends up as necessary, but frankly I'd much prefer a 1k lynch today. Nothing I have yet seen changes my mind that they're being prickly for little reason.
IH is probably town, though. Has his priorities in the right order.
It's also noticeable that 1K themselves has not produced much original reasoning about alignments, despite eagerly engaging in setup analysis when that option was presented.
Still feeling like 1K has a strong chance of being scum. Their tone is off and they've spent the day so far pursuing basically an inactive lynch on me. Rather than writing me off as busy with other shit, they're doubling down on scumreading me because I'm buried under university work and therefore not super on my game. Plus, y'know, doing shit in the neighbourhood.
To be clear on the reasons for my evenstar lynch, @InterstellarHobo brought up something I hadn't really thought about.
They've given no reasons for their lynch votes. They've not followed up. They have a fair number of posts, but there's a surprising lack of actual content in them. The big thing was them claiming to be in a neighborhood, and that's not even really anything in and of itself. They've been giving short, coy responces and answering questions, talking about mafia, but not really doing anything.
Yes, I'm sure inactivity was the only thing. It's not the other reasons blatantly stated by 1KbestK. Furthermore, if you wanted people to know that you would be busy, then maybe mentioning it before would've helped? I'm not one to talk about this one, but in order to be able to complain about that, I feel you'd need to actually inform someone before hand.
I'll self-pres to -Rosen if that ends up as necessary, but frankly I'd much prefer a 1k lynch today. Nothing I have yet seen changes my mind that they're being prickly for little reason.
It's also noticeable that 1K themselves has not produced much original reasoning about alignments, despite eagerly engaging in setup analysis when that option was presented.
Reads so far (or, "1K fumbles with notetaking")...
Mesonoxian - Is acting pretty friendly, not sure if trying to buddy up with people or if it's genuine. Has seemed generally impressionable. They're a new player, so I'm reading this as genuine. Need to keep watch to see if anyone's leading them astray, and if I'd warn Meso to not sheep as much (although some sheeping is expected if you're a beginner). Scum will try and be your friend. Be aware of that.
-Rosen - Doing weird stuff as usual. I agree that they're somewhat sus, but the arguments Nictis lays out don't convince me, so unless I get a better grip on what they're doing/trying to do, they're probably staying in my null category. One thing I've noted is that they seem to be pretty deliberate and careful with their posting even when not scum, so I'm worried I'm missing the reasoning.
Look to the Left - Needs to post more.
Cyricubed - Was my mason buddy last game, and probably the person who knows my play the best. Unfortunately, I still am not very good at reading them, so while I like what they've posted so far, but I'm unsure if my town lean on them is just leftover from being their teammate. I nearly always townread them to my recollection. Their lynch vote seems decently weak, but it is day 1.
PyrrosWarrior - Needs to post more.
Est - I don't really have a strong read on Est, which worries me a little based on their post count. Clearly still adapting to SV's ruleset.
QTesseract - I don't think anything they've posted so far has been alignment indicative, but I can't read QT for shit. They're usually pretty analytical.
InterstellarHobo - I don't like the wagon they joined, so I'm a little suspicious. They're a new player though, so some sheeping is expected. Hasn't posted too much.
1KBestK
Nanimani - Did a fair bit of meming, not done much of actual value yet. Effectively no real content so far.
TurtleDucks - New player, having fun acting sus. I don't like the lynch on them. Their behavior has been pretty coy, but not really in a way I'd consider alignment indicative. They definitely like their wine, though. Claims not in a QT. Just made a weird vote on Cyri... Unsure.
Nictis - Claims to have a role that gives them knowledge that makes them believe that we should keep information tighter than normal. Started a pretty unconvincing Rosen wagon. Generally being townread and I'm townreading them to some degree, but I'm worried they're gonna lead us astray.
Happerry - Needs to post more.
DimensionalGuy - Needs to post more. I have a bad feeling about them, but I'm 90% sure that's because I really don't like their avatar.
BanTheFairyKing - I like them arguing against the Rosen wagon, but not much else besides that to talk about. Needs to post more actual content.
Absum - I can't read Absum very well, TBH.
Evenstar - I'm bad at reading Evenstar, but this whole neighborhood thing kinda has me flipflopping. I'm mostly leaning towards town, although I really don't agree with the vote on TD. Has been a town leader as usual, which is always going to make me suspicious.
Honestly, I'm no closer to a lynch vote than I was when I started putting this together.
This one's just here if maybe someone else finds it usefull.
That's day one. Coming out of this, I'm really not liking Evenstar one bit. I did skip a bunch of posts which were either meaningless, or facts about the game, such as roles. A bunch of NAI, basically.
Firstly, just a stray thought that popped into my mind. Might be nothing though. At the start of day 1, Evenstar said that they got Witches in Twisted Miasma vibes. I didn't play that one, but I think it was about several quicktopics with some scum among them, right? Either way, I don't think that people could get invited into other quicktopics in that game, so if Evenstars "Mason" could do so, is that the vibe they would get? Either way, I don't know. The real thing I dislike is voting without a reason. Again.
Hm. On thinking about it, I think you're right, the only valid reason I have to scumread you is that you've defended Absum. Which rather implies that I should...
The lack of posting is understandable considering this, but I'm still unhappy about the lack of reasoning for Absum, and as mentioned earlier, I don't think their arguments towards 1KbestK holds any water.
It's been days. You have done nothing but avoid actually giving any reasoning. You have now multiple times expressed that you think I or others are scum or even voted, rarely ever providing a reason. I get that you're busy, but this is ridiculous.
Once more. No reason for the vote on Nanimani. Interesting thing, during day three the roleblocker is scum for targeting Nani, despite the last thing Evenstar did day 2 was vote for them. Defending LttL might be scummy, depends on if LttL has a team. So it's up in the air at the moment.
Less activity this day, so let's go for day 3 as well.
@BanTheFairyKing: Just what I said. They didn't feel like a legit candidate: it was a blatant policy lynch. The fact that it hit scum anyway makes me suspect deliberate bussing of an inactive partner.
Also, I was roleblocked last night, and would very much like the roleblocker to claim.
1: The roleblocker is almost definitely scum, because Nani was blocked N1 and then killed N2. If you are the roleblocker and you are not scum, this is very much your last chance to claim.
2: Note the accuracy of the block/kill. Nanimani was the Captain Of The Guard, almost certainly a power role. (Bodyguard? Gunsmith?) They got exactly zero chances to use their night power. That points towards "someone experienced is scum" - that, or scum are better informed than usual.
3: Let's assume it was player skill for the moment. Who then should we suspect? Well, there's me, but I'm town and also not actually that great at night kills. Cyri? They're known for strong SK play, and a lot of that is knowing who to kill when. Nictis? Having GMd for Nictis The Busdriver, he's got suprisingly good accuracy even when his reads are terrible. Nanimani is dead. QTesseract ia dead. Could it be Comiturtle? They definitely have the analysis skills, and they're acting weird regarding what they did last night. (Stressing that they acted pretty much at random... but then claiming that they have no night action? What's up with that?)
Definitely stressing more about Nictis' alignment as well.
4: BanTheFairyKing is getting near-universally scumread but has seen no real pressure. I think I'd like to address that.
Reads: Town
Happerry
Nictis
Mesonoxian
InterstellarHobo
1KBestK
PyrrosWarrior
Null/Neutral
Comiturtle
Cyricubed
BanTheFairyKing
Est
Absum
DimensionalGuy Scum
Actually now that I've built this... gut says DimensionalGuy is scummy as hell, and they seem to be sliding under the radar. Let's have a look at that.
While I like seeing a readlist, I also like seeing some basis for those reads. For example as the concerned party, I'd appreciate something other then a gut feeling. At the very least, quote a post and say, "I don't like this".
Maybe I'm just not understanding this post, but this one thing causes them to be on the top of town? And no Nictis effortpost is enough to win over that one single post? Really now.
A little more this day, at least. Anyway, after reading through all of this, I'm done for the day. I have to admit that I maybe sped through this last day more then I should've, but I still think that I got a lot of good info out from it. Also, I'm pretty much certain that Evenstar is scum at this point.
... Okay, that does not feel like a town reaction to pressure.
DG's got two votes on him. People are scumreading him for lack of activity and failure to contribute. What does he do? He posts a giant fuckoff wall accusing his accuser.
I'm sorry, what? Two votes were enough to rouse a 20poster into writing this kind of case?
Maybe I'm just not understanding this post, but this one thing causes them to be on the top of town? And no Nictis effortpost is enough to win over that one single post? Really now.
... Okay, that does not feel like a town reaction to pressure.
DG's got two votes on him. People are scumreading him for lack of activity and failure to contribute. What does he do? He posts a giant fuckoff wall accusing his accuser.
I'm sorry, what? Two votes were enough to rouse a 20poster into writing this kind of case?
Eva, no. Please. Please do not try to suspect DG for putting effort into scum hunting. All his points against you are fair.
What do you expect him to do when that's the reasoning for suspicion? And even besides that, DG has been participating, he's just been low in posts because, if I remember correctly, college.
This is the second time Evenstar's done this. It's incredibly frustrating because I share the same concerns but I haven't been going after them because every time I try nobody supports me and they pull this shit, and I'm already stressed enough. I am 100% done with this evasive, overly aggressive bullshit.
[X] lynch Evenstar
I swear to god, post some fucking explanations rather than yelling at anyone who looks in your direction.
Gotta vote for someone, and I'm not feeling Nani. While I dislike how Evenstar revealed information, they do still feel town to me, at least for the moment...
Est pretty much addressed my issues immediately so...
Apologies for the short abscence. I've no clue who to trust, and those that I've earlier read as town-ish is pretty quickly dropping down to more scummy territory. At the very least, Comi is reading pretty scummy to my inexperienced, easily swayed eyes. Absum vs Nictis is town vs town, on that I'm fairly certain at least, but I really didn't like Comi or Even this day. Also, Est remains completely invisible to me. Can't remember a single thing about them once more, even thought they are posting.
Reads: Town
Happerry
Nictis
Mesonoxian
InterstellarHobo
1KBestK
PyrrosWarrior
Null/Neutral
Comiturtle
Cyricubed
BanTheFairyKing
Est
Absum
DimensionalGuy Scum
Actually now that I've built this... gut says DimensionalGuy is scummy as hell, and they seem to be sliding under the radar. Let's have a look at that.
The progression Eva. It existed. Someone you suspect suddenly swinging a vote onto you is a pretty good incentive to start a dig, or a good excuse to make one as Scum. His points against you have all already been raised before, there's a legitimacy to them. There are good reasons for people to suspect you, or if not suspect you get annoyed.
I was planning on holding off on this until it was absolutely needed, but... sigh.
I am the firstborn son of King Hubert, Prince Geralt. After my father and the Magi, I am probably the most knowledgeable to the workings of the Veil, considering that its continued existence is tied to my own. With the threat of both the Assassins (Who I personally had been referring to as "The Dark Brotherhood" until LttL flipped) and the invaders looming over us, my guard, and acting bodydouble, Aaron has been tasked to test the loyalty of others in a private environment, and to eliminate those who pose a threat to the continued existence of the Crown. Aaron is, in actuality, a Bomb that explodes twice. Which isn't going to be of much help if people I'm pretty sure are Town decide to lynch her.
So it's been a bit of a ruse, I've been near constantly hinting that she is more important than all others, and acting the role of the over zealous guard in pulling attention away whenever she comes under suspicion or serious threat, and she's been... Well, she's been acting like she's been acting. As if she doesn't need to act Town, because everyone knows she is Town. And I know it's been... incredibly frustrating, and me brushing everything over and pulling attention hasn't helped, so I'm sorry @1KBestK.
As for why it's time to stop? I think that people might be right, I had thought that there were more assassins because it was plural in my rolecard, but if LttL had any allies they probably would have put it together by now and either killed me or been exploded, and the Invaders don't seem to care about the Veil to the best of my investigations, so that might be it. Evenstar is the one person I am 100% sure is Town, and if it's gotten pointless for us to keep up the ruse then I should drop it to avoid a mislynch.