A Game of Crowns (Mafia)

Nictis · Oct 14, 2019

*Realizes I forgot to finish reading the post*

PyrrosWarrior said:
I believe you are probably thinking of how last game, I said to someone that I have tried posting only when I have something to say of substance, since I don't like adding mere fluff to the chat. Heck, one of Evenstar's comments reprimanding me for supposedly finding people scummy yet refusing to say why has only reinforced my desire to not give any feelings on anyone until I have a full argument to provide. Evenstar didn't even bother to ever ask me about anything at that point, and I wasn't exactly deflecting or saying I had found anyone "scummy" at that point in the game. I had merely said I found some of the SB players a bit weird because they were posting slightly differently, not that I actually found any specific thing they said to tip me off nor had their behavior at that point rung any alarm bells to me.

Wait, what? Where was this?

PyrrosWarrior · Oct 14, 2019

Now, to make myself productive, I

Nictis said:
*Realizes I forgot to finish reading the post*

Wait, what? Where was this?

Actually I misremembered that one a bit. Broken Base said that, not Evenstar.

Broken Base said:
I stated my feelings on Usili here. I overall still find Usili's lack of engagement and just kinda pop-in and pop-outness suspicious, but given the replacement request there's a decent probability he just couldn't get into the game, so I won't call it damning.

Post #1- I don't like how Pyrros' entry into the game is a nothing comment on flavor and a joke to Dovah. No opinions on players, no opinions on current events, no nothing, despite claiming to be caught up with the game. There's a lot of material to dig into that Pyrros apparently simply wasn't inclined to.

Post #2- Has literally no reads on anyone 38 pages into the game. Talks about acting "odd" but refuses to actually explain what he means. He has no reads. He has opinions, but refuses to share them.

His next post is a few paragraphs indicating that his current behavior is null for him and he doesn't have any idea what to talk about and that he feels everyone is essentially playing typically. I personally do like the tone of this post, but I'm pretty "eeh" on the content, such as it is. His latest post is just a comment on experience.

That said, I would appreciate that we drop this. I would rather not make drama where there need be any. I was just trying to use that as an example for what seemed to be the behaviors expected of me when playing Mafia: that being not to generally give opinions on things unless they are strong and worthwhile. It doesn't really bother me now that that is far in the past.

PyrrosWarrior · Oct 14, 2019

PyrrosWarrior said:
Now, to make myself productive, I

This part didn't save the whole thing. What I was saying is that to make myself productive, I am willing to do an archive-dive on people if anyone wishes for that.

Nictis · Oct 14, 2019

PyrrosWarrior said:
Now, to make myself productive, I

Actually I misremembered that one a bit. Broken Base said that, not Evenstar.

That said, I would appreciate that we drop this. I would rather not make drama where there need be any. I was just trying to use that as an example for what seemed to be the behaviors expected of me when playing Mafia: that being not to generally give opinions on things unless they are strong and worthwhile. It doesn't really bother me now that that is far in the past.

Ah, thought you were talking about something said this game. Was going to be newpapering someone for saying that.

I don't think that was quite the lesson BB was going for, but okay.

PyrrosWarrior said:
This part didn't save the whole thing. What I was saying is that to make myself productive, I am willing to do an archive-dive on people if anyone wishes for that.

Without diving, could you give me your thoughts on Est, Meso, and TurtleDucks/Comi?

PyrrosWarrior · Oct 14, 2019

Nictis said:
Without diving, could you give me your thoughts on Est, Meso, and TurtleDucks/Comi?

No info on TD as they wouldn't say anything, Est has been one of the two I have been trying to follow closely but they won't say enough substantial for me gain a solid opinion on, and Meso has said enough but none of what he has said has made me put him in either category.

1KBestK · Oct 14, 2019

Nictis said:
Blegh, so need to do my ISO on Cyricubed when I am actually in a position where I can concentrate and not get constantly distracted by political talk that I have no interest in, wanted to report that Hobo is back to his place near the top of the list with his response, and I can probably answer any random questions if it doesn't require consistent focus.

Yeah, I forgot how many posts Est has, so it's also going to be a bit for me too.

Nictis · Oct 14, 2019

PyrrosWarrior said:
No info on TD as they wouldn't say anything, Est has been one of the two I have been trying to follow closely but they won't say enough substantial for me gain a solid opinion on, and Meso has said enough but none of what he has said has made me put him in either category.

...
So if you had to give some leans...?

PyrrosWarrior · Oct 14, 2019

Nictis said:
...
So if you had to give some leans...?

No info, inconclusive, neutral. See, not very helpful.

I am starting to think it might just be better to stay out of Mafia unless I can guarantee getting either one of those roles that start with a huge amount of info over everyone, or an SK. I am fairly certain I've been a failure as a player in every game other than the one SK one, and my presence only serves to bring the game quality down and anger those around me when I do say anything.

1KBestK · Oct 14, 2019

PyrrosWarrior said:
No info, inconclusive, neutral. See, not very helpful.

I am starting to think it might just be better to stay out of Mafia unless I can guarantee getting either one of those roles that start with a huge amount of info over everyone, or an SK. I am fairly certain I've been a failure as a player in every game other than the one SK one, and my presence only serves to bring the game quality down and anger those around me when I do say anything.

mesonoxian said:
This seemed a lot easier when I was just a looky-loo.

Yeah, it's harder than it seems, at least when you're starting out. I'm still not very good, but I'm getting better. I've found even the minimal notes I've been taking have really helped. Reading people in mafia is a skill, and it takes some time to develop. If you've been paying attention to that kinda thing, I've been town every single game so far, and in nearly all of them I've been little to no help to town, and frequently been the target of town because of my low participation. It can be hard starting out to even know what's suspicious and what's not. Personally, I find it best for me to try and focus myself rather than try and take in the whole thread at once, which can be super overwhelming. Pick a person, read through their posts in the thread, and work from there. Don't bite off more than you can chew.

Happerry said:
Also I was expecting there to be a lot more to read through after RL hit me over the head yesterday, activity seems to have dropped compared to D1.

Ah, that's probably my fault. Been busy and haven't been sleeping well, so my energy levels are pretty low.

Nictis · Oct 14, 2019

PyrrosWarrior said:
No info, inconclusive, neutral. See, not very helpful.

I am starting to think it might just be better to stay out of Mafia unless I can guarantee getting either one of those roles that start with a huge amount of info over everyone, or an SK. I am fairly certain I've been a failure as a player in every game other than the one SK one, and my presence only serves to bring the game quality down and anger those around me when I do say anything.

No no, okay. Hold on.

How about we try looking at things in a different way? You're looking for something that they're saying that makes you read them one way or the other, how about we take a look at what is not being said instead? I'm going to make an assumption here and say that you think the Day 1 lynch was Town v. Town, so you've got Est who has been posting but hasn't been posting anything of substance. Maybe it's more scum sided because he was uninvested but was looking busy, or maybe he was dodging certain topics and avoiding calling out stuff that scum wouldn't know to be a landmine. If Meso has content but it matches what you might expect from Town or Scum, maybe look at the timing or the tone of the posts. Try pressuring, ask Meso some questions on stuff that is unrelated to the first Day, pull him into some topics that he didn't touch on. If TurtleDucks has not been posting anything, has Comi been continuing that trend? Is there someone else that you might have wanted to get more info on that you can ask about others?

I can't speak for everyone, but I'll say that you haven't been angering for me, and quality can only improve with practice. I just feel like you've been hearing the wrong things in what criticisms have been given.

Nictis · Oct 14, 2019

1KBestK said:
Yeah, it's harder than it seems, at least when you're starting out. I'm still not very good, but I'm getting better. I've found even the minimal notes I've been taking have really helped. Reading people in mafia is a skill, and it takes some time to develop. If you've been paying attention to that kinda thing, I've been town every single game so far, and in nearly all of them I've been little to no help to town, and frequently been the target of town because of my low participation. It can be hard starting out to even know what's suspicious and what's not. Personally, I find it best for me to try and focus myself rather than try and take in the whole thread at once, which can be super overwhelming. Pick a person, read through their posts in the thread, and work from there. Don't bite off more than you can chew.

This ^^

Nictis · Oct 14, 2019

Well, there is a point that things have stagnated pretty horribly. So... *spins the gacha wheel*

[x] Null Look to the Left
[x] Lynch ComiTurtle

Post!

Nictis · Oct 14, 2019

Alright, done watching my grandmother for the night, so now I'm either going to be doing that ISO on Cyricubed or falling asleep, definitely one or the other.

I'll make a post at the end of it, I might even include some quotes if I find stuff worth looking at!

And courtesy pinging @ComiTurtle since I didn't do anything that would have pinged him before.

InterstellarHobo · Oct 15, 2019

Ugh, I said I'd do this today so I will. It'll be pretty half assed tho.
EDIT: It gets half-half assed halfway through, and eventually reaches a half-assymptote.

I think I might not be able to do much better by Thurs, I've still got hella shit to do.

mesonoxian: Slight scum lean
Started the 'wrong lynch' train
Doesn't have much posting besides interaction with -Rosen.
Could be a deliberate mislynch attempt.
OTOH, reasoning wasn't terrible from what I remember? Could easily just be well intentioned wrongness.

Look to the Left: Unnoticed
Have not paid much attention to them. Will correct when(if) I fully ass.

Cyricubed: Slight town read
Early opposition to -Rosen lynch.
Provided reasoning for all actions.

Est: Unnoticed
Have not paid much attention to them. Will correct when(if) I fully ass.

QTesseract: Definite scum

LostDeviljho said:
The day begins with the discovery of a new corpse.

@QTesseract is found within his quarters, a pulped mass of blood, bone shards, and grey matter where his skull used to be. Examination of his clothing and effects reveals him to be another Kingdom native: The castle gamekeeper, Old Basset.

InterstellarHobo: too attractive, intelligent, and humble to be scum

1KBestK: Strongest town read
Early, strong opposition to Rosen lynch.
Considerable openness about reasoning.

Nanimani: Suspicious.
Not goodlynch suspicious, but take a closer look suspicious.
-Rosen thought he was scum is a big one.
The sequence of lynch votes is odd. Should check how well timing coincides with when lynch votes would be valuable.
(e.g. if argued for Rosen lynch when support low, and distanced themself when support high, increase sus)

TurtleTurtle: Deeply suspicious, but of god knows what
I have no idea what TurtleDucks was doing. None. It doesn't seem like anyone else does either.
If @ComiTurtle could guess as to the purpose behind TD's actions?

Nictis: Probably town
High participation is good.
Providing reasoning is good.
On the other hand, was largely responsible for a town lynch, so could theoretically be scum hiding in audacity.

Happerry:Unnoticed
Have not paid much attention to them. Will correct when(if) I fully ass.

DimensionalGuy: Unnoticed
Have not paid much attention to them. Will correct when(if) I fully ass.

BanTheFairyKing: Suspicious, but unfounded
I have vague memories of suspecting Ban. Didn't put in effort here.

Absum: Vague townread
Consistently gave good reasoning.
Did not put in effort here.

Evenstar: Suspicious
For reasons already covered. Has not increased or decreased.
Other strong contenders this time, so probably won't get repeat vote.

Absum · Oct 15, 2019

PyrrosWarrior said:
It is, however, my answer to your questioning for reads. There is very little point in saying "this guy feels vaguely suspicious" without having a logical foundation and argument prepared for why that person is suspicious. All that does is open up to suspicion, paranoia, and false reads on either the people I find merely weird or on myself for seemingly appearing to paint people as scum without a solid foundation for it. It's as I think either Nictis or TPK told me a while ago: there really isn't a use for mere "feeling" like someone is scum or not if you aren't ready to actually be able to offer a case for why they are suspicious. So no, I don't consider myself to have any reads. By your guys's general definition, I would have reads that are "lightly town" or "lightly scum" or "blank," but there is no point in saying things that can so easily shift on the drop of a dime. Those types of so-called "reads" are effectively pointless, especially when we still don't have enough variety of night and day action to give them a sliver of worth.

I believe you are probably thinking of how last game, I said to someone that I have tried posting only when I have something to say of substance, since I don't like adding mere fluff to the chat. Heck, one of Evenstar's comments reprimanding me for supposedly finding people scummy yet refusing to say why has only reinforced my desire to not give any feelings on anyone until I have a full argument to provide. Evenstar didn't even bother to ever ask me about anything at that point, and I wasn't exactly deflecting or saying I had found anyone "scummy" at that point in the game. I had merely said I found some of the SB players a bit weird because they were posting slightly differently, not that I actually found any specific thing they said to tip me off nor had their behavior at that point rung any alarm bells to me.

Hm well I ask for reads because
1) I do actually think it's better to to talk about something than to be silent, even at the cost of making people suspicious.
2) I personally can almost always think of a reason why someone is suspicious (currently f.e. I think the only person that I couldn't find anything sus for is 1K? Possibly Ban also but as I mentioned previously I was actually pretty sus of them more because of gutfeels so meh). Thought this is not to say that those reasons should always immediately be mentioned, as they can be so weak as to be irrelevant (to the point of technically being NAI, even) or you can want to not tip off scum.
3) In my second game at EoD2 I decided to not reveal I was in a Mason with someone relatively inactive who got a bit of heat because I didn't want to tip off scum. Then I died and Town wasted like half a Day on my at that point wholly inactive buddy. That happened because I did not consider "What if I die tonight?". Then later @Terrabrand made this post, which I still think is very good, and because of what happened earlier it really stuck with me. And so I now try to make sure I always leave something behind for when I die even if they're trash D1 reads.

Nanimani said:
Also, kind of odd that you're putting Pyrros below LttL and Happery. Got a participating impression off them.

I did not. I expect them to be more useful than LttL later on (at least as things stand), Happerry kind of depends. The point was that LttL had after some prodding produced at least one read (one I actually think is somewhat odd, but a read), while Pyrros had been more active than LttL, Happerry and DG, but has as far as I could tell not given any opinions on anyone, and the more posts someone has the more suspicious that becomes (as it's an easy way for scum to not give anything away).

Oh and
[X] Null

I wanna do the ISOs before I vote, which will likely be a while cause I've also got other stuff to do. I don't think I'll vote for either of the leading candidates (well, I say leading candidates, but they're only at 2 votes each anyway and both are more pressure than anything else so...). I do agree with Comi pressure, but as I'm still pretty suspicious of Cyri and Nictis led the previous vote I'm too concerned about scum conversation control to join. Vote on Ban... hm... Hey @Nanimani, can I get your opinions on Evenstar and me? Cause I don't wanna go looking.

Cyricubed · Oct 15, 2019

InterstellarHobo said:
Early opposition to -Rosen lynch.

I should say this to a lot of people: Remember that scum are looking for towncredit. Don't take someone not participating or talking against a lynch as town credit. It can be under the right circumstances, however keep in mind that scum know who scum are, and thus might try to seemingly pull traction away from what they believe is a town lynch. Aka distancing. It was some early traps I fell for when I started playing(Especially in witches)

Finally have some time to do my Iso's.

Absum said:
I do agree with Comi pressure, but as I'm still pretty suspicious of Cyri and Nictis led the previous vote I'm too concerned about scum conversation control to join. Vote on Ban... hm... Hey @Nanimani, can I get your opinions on Evenstar and me? Cause I don't wanna go looking.

I don't think I can be considered to be leading the vote when my suspicions only garnered...what...a vote extra? Nictis understanding. Also I'm just side eying since I'm not the biggest fan of asking for thoughts on oneself

Absum · Oct 15, 2019

Cyricubed said:
I don't think I can be considered to be leading the vote when my suspicions only garnered...what...a vote extra? Nictis understanding. Also I'm just side eying since I'm not the biggest fan of asking for thoughts on oneself

I meant "I am still suspicious of Cyri; and also Nictis lead the previous vote".

Cyricubed · Oct 15, 2019

DimensionalGuy said:
Wew, reading through the thread always leaves me completely overwhelmed. I never really have an idea of whats important to focus on, and whats just meaningless. Even worse because of it being day 1. So I guess I
ll just start of with answering these questions.
1) Nope. In fact, my skills at reading people are considered (by me) to be abyssmal. I don't know if thats underselling me, but the only time I actually managed to do something was the first(?) archdemon game, with Nictis as scum, and that was full of bad decisions from my part.
2) Nictis, without a doubt. I'm always inclined to view him as scum. I could probably be in a mason with him, with him being proven town, and still somehow suspect him. It's completely paranoid.
3) Nictis, Absum, Nanimani and Look to the Left are the first names to come to mind, I suppose.

Gonna try to read through the thread again, maybe find something to actually latch onto.

Hmm...I think your selling yourself short but I'm not seeing much here.

DimensionalGuy said:
Agreed.

There's nothing wrong with my avatar! It just radiates innocence and glee. Strong scumread from this!

Anyway, joking aside, I'm not good at talking or conversations, so I only really tend to post much when I feel that I have something to say. Too often that means that I simply do nothing for large parts of a game. I want to change that myself, so I really appreciate you calling me out. Anyways, there are a few posts that I see as odd (if it's because of my inexperince or if they actually are odd I don't know).

If you feel that the method you proposed is more usefull for scum, then why would you propose it? Furthermore, if you did feel that "random" guesses would be usefull for town, then why would you not provide your own, and instead use RNG? It just seems off to me.

Anyway, QT and Evenstar raised some eyebrows from me as well, with Evenstar claiming to be in a neighbourhood for what seems to me be no reason, and QT revealing more about his role then I would be comfortable with doing this early. I mean, that may just be me not being good at social, but still.

I don't really have any good reads at the moment, but if someone put a gun to my head and told me to vote, then I would vote Rosen at the moment.

Well I'm calling you out again. Do more stuff. *Pokes with stick* cause I only had a single digit to ISO on which leaves little for interpretation...urg.... Top reasoning aligns with what nictis was saying I believe. I see Evenstarts point, but not the QT point from earlier. I think?

Did say back then essentially if they had to vote it'd be rosen.

Overall I think this is NAI post

DimensionalGuy said:
Maybe I'm reading to much into that whole "most bizarre scum role ever", but that seems almost like a power role claim to me. Probably just me misinterpreting things though.

Hard to say, could be subtle rolefishing/reaction fishing but I believe that's just my intense paranoia kicking in.

DimensionalGuy said:
I completely forgot about that, honestly. Yeah, that did feel like a bit much to me.

Also

Do you have any opinions regarding the game or players? Something that you want to share? None of your posts actually have any substance at all.

I like the poking at look. But that is pretty NAI. Urg...

DimensionalGuy said:
Nah, I don't really have anything important I've noticed. I can give some thoughts about current matters though. Just like earlier, I'm still eyeing -Rosen a little bit, not sure if that's justified, or a bad first impression staying overdue. However, I'm still not really comfortable voting for them.

Now, regarding Cyricubed's post: I'm really not feeling Absum as scum, and I'm willing to gloss over TurtleDucks posts as, as they called it, excessive memery for now. I mean, if it weren't day 1 and a new guy, then I'd probably be voting for TurtleDuck at the moment, but those factors currently prevent me from doing so.

Also, just to mention it, but I've been rather tired today so I've been skimming through most of the longer posts. It's not only possible, but likely that I missed som good arguments that would've swayed me one way or another. I'd just like to apologize for that, just in case.

Notes doubt about the -Rosen lynch later, not sure because I did much of the same although to a harder degree...points out my arguments and doesn't feel them. Ahh...nai? I think.

DimensionalGuy said:
Yeah, that's fair. My only real disagreement is about scum and lynchwagon, but that's probably just me going wine, honestly. Gonna try and look for something suspicious day one again. No promises that I'll find something, I'm honestly not that good at it, but I'll try to do so soonish. Not right at this moment though. Have to study some.

You found anything yet because I sure as hell didn't with this ISO...which is the more concerning thing. Okay onto the ones with a bunch of meat to digest...

Nictis · Oct 15, 2019

I started to do my ISO last night, then my friend called over Discord. Just woke up, and he's heading towards my house now. So... Yeah, this is getting pushed back a lot more than I'd like, but so far I'm liking Cyricubed's stuff.

Cyricubed · Oct 15, 2019

So I'm halfway done with my 1st ISO while also juggling work.

@ComiTurtle and @Evenstar you've both been quiet this day, Comi I get because you just got in, not sure about Even although college stuff could be playing interference so figured I'd ping.

@Absum Now that comi has taken the slot any further thoughts on the Turtle?

Ahh...Nani wasn't too bad with trying to get conversation started.

@Happerry and @BanTheFairyKing I'd like to hear more from both of you. Thoughts, have you looked through and found something off or to note?

Absum · Oct 15, 2019

Cyricubed said:
@Absum Now that comi has taken the slot any further thoughts on the Turtle?

What Comi posted ruled out the one Town role I thought could make TD act like that (wrt me). So I'd say Jester but now that I'm typing that out I think that what people have speculated about the setup makes that less likely. So mostly confusion still wrt TD.

For Comi I suppose I did actually like the reads he posted, but as I said I think some pressure is good. Mostly because with how confusing TD was previously I'd like to see some more stuff.

mesonoxian · Oct 15, 2019

@ComiTurtle just curious. Does how TurtleDucks played your role make sense to you now that you've seen the role PM?

Nanimani · Oct 15, 2019

Absum said:
Vote on Ban... hm... Hey @Nanimani, can I get your opinions on Evenstar and me? Cause I don't wanna go looking.

Evenstar's behavior is sus, but their roleclaim, seeming knowledge about the setting that would be bad to let scum know, and early claim of a neighborhood group are more than enough to have me give them a town impression early. It's not exactly gonna hold at Lylo though; I do hope to see more from them.

You... Honestly, you and 1K both occupy the same "People in general seem to think you're being really Town, but I don't really remember much from you other than generally participating" Null read due to lack of noted data points.

Albany · Oct 15, 2019

Cyricubed said:
So I'm halfway done with my 1st ISO while also juggling work.

@ComiTurtle and @Evenstar you've both been quiet this day, Comi I get because you just got in, not sure about Even although college stuff could be playing interference so figured I'd ping.

@Absum Now that comi has taken the slot any further thoughts on the Turtle?

Ahh...Nani wasn't too bad with trying to get conversation started.

@Happerry and @BanTheFairyKing I'd like to hear more from both of you. Thoughts, have you looked through and found something off or to note?

Midterms are the anathema of participation it seems, especially when ALL OF THE PROJECTS are due right about now. Uhm, honestly my thoughts haven't really changed that much. I still like where my vote is at, I still townread you and Nictis, and I am still neutral on Absum and TDComi. I'm liking Interstellar's posting, and I'd like some insight from meso about the other people on the Rosen train, but I just... Don't really have much? Once this latest project is done I'll try and be more active, but as a lover of inactivity lynches myself if that is whe- actually wait there are still people with way less content than me, pls send a vote their way while I'm busy getting my college shit together ok thx

Absum · Oct 15, 2019

Nanimani said:
Evenstar's behavior is sus, but their roleclaim, seeming knowledge about the setting that would be bad to let scum know, and early claim of a neighborhood group are more than enough to have me give them a town impression early. It's not exactly gonna hold at Lylo though; I do hope to see more from them.

You... Honestly, you and 1K both occupy the same "People in general seem to think you're being really Town, but I don't really remember much from you other than generally participating" Null read due to lack of noted data points.

Well, I suppose this passes the hidden but possibly obvious question of why you picked the Ban vote over me or ES.

I'm definitely back to considering you linked to ES though.

BanTheFairyKing said:
actually wait there are still people with way less content than me, pls send a vote their way while I'm busy getting my college shit together ok thx

I think you just made me less likely to do that actually.

A Game of Crowns (Mafia)

Best Sidekick

Best Sidekick

Best Sidekick

Best Sidekick

Best Sidekick

Best Sidekick

Best Sidekick

Cosmic Vagrant

Residant Bird.

Residant Bird.

Best Sidekick

Residant Bird.

Staying noided

Probably listening to music