[X] War Carrack, Fate upgrade
-[X] Chassis: Carrack (8 Systems, 6 Weapons Batteries, 2 Heavy Weapons Batteries)
-[X] Convert 2 Weapons Batteries and 1 Heavy Weapons Battery to System Slots (+4 Systems)
-[X] Weapons: 1x Heavy Starlance, 4x Fatetwister Cannon Batteries
-[X] Systems: 3x Aethersail, 1x Plasma Drive, 1x Fatesheer Close In Weapons Battery, 1x Holofield, 1x Grav-Shiel
 
Unfortunately Mechanis said that graviton thrusters don't make big enough holes for Fatetwister shots to go through them
That leaves Fatesheer Cannons then. We could either design an assault ship that's both durable and highly maneuverable to use Fatesheer as CIWBs with the Lances, or a carrier equipped with the Lances with its strikecraft primarily armed with Fatesheer Cannons.
 
we only want a single vehicle grade fatesever, and only on an interceptor type defensive strike craft. we plan to pair it with two vehicles grade missile launchers, which could be armed with Melta missiles or some other manner of specialty missile. any other new strike craft made passed this point can use whatever we like and at this time I have no particular thoughts.

agreed. I can see us reaching a total AP and some slack in what we are spending sometimes from turn 20 to 25, though it may be a 2 or 3 turn venture.
Coool, cool but uh, what about an interceptor with no exotics at all? Shouldn't that also be on the table? Also, why missiles? To keep the 'homing weapons' thing going? What about three lascannons to just vaporize other fighters at the speed of light in the joust?
 
Coool, cool but uh, what about an interceptor with no exotics at all? Shouldn't that also be on the table? Also, why missiles? To keep the 'homing weapons' thing going? What about three lascannons to just vaporize other fighters at the speed of light in the joust?
Well, lascannons have significantly less firepower than our plasma cannons. Missile launchers probably have less firepower than plasma cannons in exchange for homing and multiple payload types (because a plasma missile is noted to have the same blast radius as a plasma cannon of the same size, but a missile launcher has limited ammo)
 
Well, lascannons have significantly less firepower than our plasma cannons. Missile launchers probably have less firepower than plasma cannons in exchange for homing and multiple payload types (because a plasma missile is noted to have the same blast radius as a plasma cannon of the same size, but a missile launcher has limited ammo)
Missile launchers also have the benefit of being able to launch their entire payload in one devastating salvo, making them very effective at bursting down targets in an alpha-strike. The strike craft would have to rearm at the carrier afterwards, but with how fast the average Aeldari craft usually is compared to other factions' spacecrafts, I don't think it's going to be that big of an issue.
 
Coool, cool but uh, what about an interceptor with no exotics at all? Shouldn't that also be on the table? Also, why missiles? To keep the 'homing weapons' thing going? What about three lascannons to just vaporize other fighters at the speed of light in the joust?
AOE weapons & customizability. I imagine we can change what missile types an interceptor uses without doing a full refit. Also because it leaves us with the option of putting some of them in an infantry support role with indirect fire.

Since it's going to be a long, long time before we have strike craft in bulk, I'm in favor of a single exotics weapon to compensate for their low numbers. It's the whole reason we iterated the Air Racer chassis and are planning to do an interceptor based of that chassis in the first place. So our factor can speed up fielding these by just doing bright eagle refits.
Missile launchers also have the benefit of being able to launch their entire payload in one devastating salvo, making them very effective at bursting down targets in an alpha-strike. The strike craft would have to rearm at the carrier afterwards, but with how fast the average Aeldari craft usually is compared to other factions' spacecrafts, I don't think it's going to be that big of an issue.
Especially since as interceptors we want these primarily in a defensive role, which means they maintain relative proximity to the fleet their deployed from.
 
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/Disclaimer, this is not meant to be serious.

I present to you the Wet Dream of this Thread!

[]-Laughter Class Dhow
-[]Heavy Torpedo Launcher
-[]Three Weapon Batteries to System Slots
-[]1*Plasma Thruster
-[]Holo Field
-[]2*PD
-[]4*Hanger (12 Squads)
-[]3*Reinforced Hull

It has PD! It has Armor! It has a small Fleet worth of Squads AND Torpedoes!
Everything a Ship needs and not a single precious Unit of Exotic Material was "wasted (TM)", while we keep hoarding them
like Eldar Lives. 🎉

[]-Slaughter Class Dhow
-[] 1*Heavy Naval Macro Imploder
-[] 1*Heavy Naval Amplifier Bombard
-[] 3*Naval Point Singularity Projectors
-[] 1*Holo Field
-[] 1*Plasma Thruster
-[] 1*Aether Sail
-[] 1* PD Graviton Thruster Lance
-[] 1 * Close In Weapon System Super Heavy Graviton Sheer Bombard
-[] 2 * Reinforced Hull

This one is a Chunky Ship, meant to throw its Weight around.
 
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Missile launchers also have the benefit of being able to launch their entire payload in one devastating salvo, making them very effective at bursting down targets in an alpha-strike. The strike craft would have to rearm at the carrier afterwards, but with how fast the average Aeldari craft usually is compared to other factions' spacecrafts, I don't think it's going to be that big of an issue.

Just work noting that in canon, Eldar missile launchers can't do this. They have magazines of missiles that reload the launcher.
Doubling our Fateforges would cost 28 BAP.

If you want that to happen anytime soon, find ways to squeeze extra Enhance Industries in.

That said, at 6 Psy-Scopes a year, a single Fateforge is enough to arm 15 fighters with a single Fatesever every turn - more than a squadron. It's not actually an impossible ask, especially since we don't currently have plans for using Psy-Scopes in military expansion, ground or army - just the refit-type hulls and the Sword of Vaul. And those are one-time costs.

I think we might want to consider having a core of war hosts that use exotic weapons that we initially send on the wild hunt and then use as a super elite force to deploy in critical situations.

For example, Fatecaster Rifles are great weapons for Ithilmar armoured shock infantry detachments as they can be fired freely into and while in melee combat, and a pairing of a Fateshredder Cannon and a Starlance on a Fata Morgana hull would make for an immensely effective and versatile armoured vehicle.

We wouldn't want a large number of hosts equipped like this, and they'd be an ever decreasing fraction of our army, but in the short term I think they'd be very valuable to have indeed.

Essentially they'd allow us to partially substitute quality for quantity while we build up our numbers.
 
Honestly, maybe we should consider something other than fate-guns for a mass production fighter. Yes, yes, they're aimbot and hax and that's all very good, but what if we made something that the pilot has to aim, but which can still really fuck somebody up? Melta gun and dual plasma maybe, for that firey theming?

At some point though, we need to bite the bullet and expand exotics production. Doubling our Fateforges would be a good starting point.

People that propose using any of the exotic weapons on something that will see mass production don't get the logistics and the scale we will be trying to work our way up to.

That is at least all I can say to that.

Non-exotic weapons is the go to for pretty much anything that will see mass production.

For what weapons to use that is a bit of a question that also needs to ask how are they mounted* and how much of a problem is a delay between fire and hitting the target.

*are we talking about a turret weapon or something that is hard mounted for a start
 
Can they at least fire the entire magazine in one go?

Not from what I can tell from the description. They have magazines like regular guns have magazines, with a limited rate of fire.

Edit: I think canon Eldar missile launchers more closely resemble Imperial bolters than they do Imperial missile launchers, it's just that the Eldar's technology is better so they have better payloads which have higher performance/lethality than most bolter rounds do (although there are some exotic bolter rounds as well).

People that propose using any of the exotic weapons on something that will see mass production don't get the logistics and the scale we will be trying to work our way up to.

That is at least all I can say to that.

Non-exotic weapons is the go to for pretty much anything that will see mass production.

For what weapons to use that is a bit of a question that also needs to ask how are they mounted* and how much of a problem is a delay between fire and hitting the target.

*are we talking about a turret weapon or something that is hard mounted for a start

The core use I see for exotics is to essentially create a higher tier of troops and ships to be used in particular important situations. Under this model we'd have militia war hosts with basic weapons, regular war hosts and fleets with advanced weapons and special war hosts and fleets with exotics.

We'd only mass produce regular and militia formations. Special formations would exist in limited and proportionally declining numbers, and in the long term would, as the name suggests, be reserved for special occasions.

We probably want exotic armed variants of our squads, vehicles, and ships for those special formations, but we also need advanced weapon armed versions for our regular troops.

Now, given the situation we're in, I think we probably want to design and build the special versions first, while we have limited numbers and want to make an impression on the Wild Host, but in the longer run we'd want to switch production to the regular versions while have militia versions as a tertiary priority for designing and establishing a background pipeline of.

That's why I think it does make sense to design an exotic armed fighter to upgrade our current versions to, and initially focus on manufacturing that. However, we'd need to go back to the drawing board at some point later to design a version armed with advanced weapons for our regular fleets.
 
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The core use I see for exotics is to essentially create a higher tier of troops and ships to be used in particular important situations. Under this model we'd have militia war hosts with basic weapons, regular war hosts and fleets with advanced weapons and special war hosts and fleets with exotics.

We'd only mass produce regular and militia formations. Special formations would exist in limited and proportionally declining numbers, and in the long term would, as the name suggests, be reserved for special occasions.

We probably want exotic armed variants of our squads, vehicles, and ships for those special formations, but we also need advanced weapon armed versions for our regular troops.

Now, given the situation we're in, I think we probably want to design and build the special versions first, while we have limited numbers and want to make an impression on the Wild Host, but in the longer run we'd want to switch production to the regular versions while have militia versions as a tertiary priority for designing and establishing a background pipeline of.

The thing with exotic weapons is that their production is a lot more limited as it doesn't scale with our overall industry apart from just being really expensive to expand even a small bit.

That leads to the best use of them as you said for "higher" tier troops, but going beyond that for "bespoke" vehicles and ships where we don't really give a shit about the EP costs because EP just fundamentally isn't the bottleneck there.

I think our titans will generally fall into that category also, in part because they will need active AP to create like ships.

For what we want to design first that would be the regular forces not the special ones.
Because so far we have voted at least vehicle design wise for stuff that is intended pretty much 100% for the mass production and use by main forces of our ground forces.
 
The thing with exotic weapons is that their production is a lot more limited as it doesn't scale with our overall industry apart from just being really expensive to expand even a small bit.

That leads to the best use of them as you said for "higher" tier troops, but going beyond that for "bespoke" vehicles and ships where we don't really give a shit about the EP costs because EP just fundamentally isn't the bottleneck there.

I think our titans will generally fall into that category also, in part because they will need active AP to create like ships.

For what we want to design first that would be the regular forces not the special ones.
Because so far we have voted at least vehicle design wise for stuff that is intended pretty much 100% for the mass production and use by main forces of our ground forces.

I disagree. Exotics are currently as relatively cheap as they'll ever be, and our forces are the smallest they'll ever be, and it's currently probably the hardest to raise large numbers of troops that it'll ever be.

I think that incentivising making those troops we can raise as effective as we possibly can, using our stock piles of exotics to effectively discount the short term real production cost of those units.

That allows us to get the strongest possible forces for short to medium term AP investment.

Yes, this effectively means we're borrowing production from the future that will be required to refill our stockpiles, but that's, I think, the rational thing to do in our situation where our forces are very small and we have a mission, the Wild Hunt; that we'll want to send forces in and have them seen to perform well.

For example, if the Fata Morgana hull is designed in time I think it would make sense to design an exotic variant using a Starlance and Fateshredder Cannon first (particularly if we can recycle those weapons from our existing vehicles). We then build and deploy those in and armoured detachment on the Wild Hunt.

At some point after our Wild Hunt forces have departed we can then design a version with advanced weapons for our regular forces. One Warrior AP can design multiple vehicles, it seems, so this isn't a prohibitive cost.

It's the same with shock infantry. If we want to send shock infantry detachments along, Fatecaster Rifles in the hands of ithilmar armoured troops should be enormously effective. It would be worth designing a squad based on that concept (with other gear like EDFs and gravity blades) and building a couple of detachments around that.

This same principle applies to other kinds of ground units, I feel.

We wouldn't want to build them in huge numbers, but if we want to ever build them it makes to front load construction of them, for the reasons I stated above. To recap:

Exotic stockpiles are essentially saved production. We can spend it to reduce the effective immediate cost of building something. That means that we can get a more powerful force in a shorter amount of time than we can with non-exotic weapons. When we're on a deadline, like with the Wild Hunt, that's important.

While our forces are small the relative benefit of each additional unit is magnified. Adding an exotic armed unit makes more of a difference now than adding that exotic armed unit in the future, while the relative cost of an exotic armed unit will increase as our BAP total increases. As a result it makes sense to front load any production of exotic armed units to now and build non-exotic armed units later.

That's what we're effectively doing with our refits, where we're choosing to spend the exotics stockpile embodied in our own existing ships on their upgraded versions.

I think we should be doing the same with our ground troops, spending our exotics stockpile on the squads and vehicles that we'll be using in the short term.

I emphasise that this is a short term strategy. Once we have a small number of war hosts equipped like that we should transition to using advanced weapons for our regular forces that we then build up.
 
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Why do you want to fire the entire Magazine in one Go? Do we get a Discount on Ammunition if we dump Torpedoes fast enough?
Because burst fire weapons would complement Aeldari hit-and-run tactics very well.

Imagine two kinds of Eldar strikecraft, one equipped with Suncannons, the other with Missile Pods (because apparently Missile Launchers can't do salvos). Both are fast and agile like all Eldar craft, so they can easily reach and engage something like a Killkrooza:
  • The Suncannon craft has a respectable rate of fire and virtually unlimited ammo, but it needs to at least stay within its weapons' maximum range from the Killkrooza the entire time to deal damage, which risks it getting shot down with PD Shootaz or Flakk the longer it stays there.
  • The Missile craft can enter within range, empty its entire payload in one great salvo all in a short span of time, and immediately run back to its carrier to rearm and do it again.
 
Because burst fire weapons would complement Aeldari hit-and-run tactics very well.

Imagine two kinds of Eldar strikecraft, one equipped with Suncannons, the other with Missile Pods (because apparently Missile Launchers can't do salvos). Both are fast and agile like all Eldar craft, so they can easily reach and engage something like a Killkrooza:
  • The Suncannon craft has a respectable rate of fire and virtually unlimited ammo, but it needs to at least stay within its weapons' maximum range from the Killkrooza the entire time to deal damage, which risks it getting shot down with PD Shootaz or Flakk the longer it stays there.
  • The Missile craft can enter within range, empty its entire payload in one great salvo all in a short span of time, and immediately run back to its carrier to rearm and do it again.
Eldar do get missile pods, eventually. The revenant titan has two missile pods next to the head.
 
While I realize I'm a little late to the discussion and party here, I would like to put forward a design for a fleet escort using our latest advances in technology.

An examination of Turn 1 - the fleets of arach quinn - reveals some very interesting design choices : Multiple engines are possible, even desired, and for frontline combat vessels, you can take -multiple- hull reinforcements. Mixing engine types is also permittable. Presumably, Aethersails are for strategic advantage and folded during engagements.
Also of note is that ships of this class get 3 squadrons per hangar for 1 space, not 2, and that defensive technologies are +1 slot. Threadlink compare, contrast


This design is not meant to be elegant, or be entirely full of the best technolgoies. It is meant to be reliable and tough: Fast enough to stand at the front of every engagement, take a bloody nose, and keep fighting. While i'd -prefer- to do this is a militarized frigate/subcapital, the forces of the eldar still need a fleet screener and beatstick.
Warden Escort Cruiser: Clipper - 12 slots
4: Plasma thruster x2.
2: holo field
3: Grav shield
2: 2x hanger
1: reinforced hull

Weapons: 4 naval, 2 heaavy
2x heavy Grav-thruster
1x 'weapon' battery' downgraded to triple 'close in weapons':(same as heavy -> naval): 1 close-in las lance, 1 close in grav-vibration, 1 close-in grav-imploder
1 naval suncannon
1 naval gun of choice at construction: point-singularity, heavy torpedo, or fusion mortar.
The intent here is the las-lance and grav weaponry are the point defense array. they all work together. (Reminder: vibration is mid range, and the smaller something is, the more vulnerable it is to being shaken apart, while an imploder can easily detonate munitions or fuel cells,and is also mid range.)

I'd also like to see a variant that swaps 1 hangar for +1 reinforced hull if possible.

References:
grav weapons break down
armory post here

I'd like to point out that suncannons and plasma technologies are excellent bang for buck, and cheaper than las lances.
Note on Cost: Do click here. its kind of illuminating.
Las Lance: 5 naval, 8 heavy naval
Suncannon(plasma): 5 naval.
Fusion mortar: 6 naval
Grav-Thruster(long range): 9 naval, 14 heavy naval
Grav-Shear(short range): 7 naval
Grav-Vibration(short/medium range): 10 naval
Grav-Imploder(short+medium range): 6 naval, 14 heavy naval
grav-PSP- 12 naval
Needler: 3 naval
Starlance: 10 + 20 starcrystals
Holofield: 9 capital
grav-shield 12 capital
energy dispersion barrier - 6 capital

Thanks for reading!
 
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An examination of Turn 1 - the fleets of arach quinn - reveals some very interesting design choices : Multiple engines are possible, even desired, and for frontline combat vessels, you can take -multiple- hull reinforcements.
It's notable that Arach-Qin doesn't have any kind of shielding, yeah. With no shielding (not even Holo-Fields), their sails are certain to get shredded in any engagement, and hull reinforcement is the only defense they've got.

Combine that with their best guns being Meltas - and so very short ranged - their current naval doctrine implies they take a lot of attrition. I suppose it's not that surprising that their fleet got smashed as badly as it did - or why their response to their docks getting wrecked was to smash every Ork world in range in a single berserk fit, rather than taking a defensive posture while getting the fuck out of there.
 
I also have a second design, but I predict there will be less interest in it. Still..
We don't have any good carriers for establishing webway gates on places of interest. Is this maybe better done with a smaller ship? yes.
Do smaller ships have the ability to take and HOLD territory before setting up shop there, or good force projection abilities? No.



'beachhead' Invasion Carrier - Clipper-class ship
weapons: 1 heavy grav-thruster
1 heavy battery returned for +2 systems
1 naval suncannon
1 naval fusion mortar
1 naval battery downscaled to close-in las-lances for point defense.

systems:
2: holofield
5: webway gate
2:large transport bay - 5 warhost
2: 1 plasma engine
1: 1 aethersail
1 reinforced hull
1 hangar - 3 squadrons

Thats it. It gives a lot up to carry the webway gate, but in return it carries 5 warhosts, 3 squadrons, an aethersail for strategic speed, and a holofield to get places unseen.
 
second to last one.

Bully-class
Cruiser - Clipper class

You know how all the various the factions and races inevitably cram their ships full of las-weapons then call it a day, because its cheap?
This is made to -beat them-. It has no vulnerable engines, a tough hull, and all the defensive technologies. Its a mix of plasma and gravitics weapons made to trade against shitty kinetics or weapons in the las category, while chewing up enemies in the mid and close range.

4: 2x plasma-thruster
2: holo field
3: energy dispersion barrier
3: grav shield
2: reinforced hull

Heavy 1: returned for system slots
Heavy 2: Graviton Imploder (shear is unavailable, or id' take it)
B1: Downgraded to close-in batteries. Mix of las-lance, grav-vibro, grav-imploder.
b2: Naval Suncannon
b3: Graviton Shear
b4: Naval Suncannon or Fusion Artillery


its major failing is that it would be significantly better as a proper militarized design.
 
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Actual last one.

Archer-class missile destroyer
Caravel class

heavy 1: Downgrade to naval, add torpedos
naval 1: suncannon
naval 2: torpedo
naval 3 torpedo
naval 4: torpedo
by my count, 12 tubes of pain.

2: holofield
4: 2 plasma thruster
1: reinforced hull
1: hangar

This is another simplistic design, cheap(i think) too. Fast enough to dump and run. Thats it: its a cheap ship made to take advantage of advancements in fighter and missile technologies down the road.

The hangar is required to ensure torpedo's are not intercepted or shot down (you escort the payload with strike craft)
 
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