Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
It's not finalized, since we still need some info from Mechanis.
A Different Breed (Warhammer 29K)
It's not finalized, since we still need some info from Mechanis.
- Location
- Seattle, Washington
I think your design is okay, but not what we need right now.
Professor Vesca
Good News Everyone!
You should also factor in that ships undergoing refit cannot be used. Though with Zhar-Tann backing us up that is less of a driving force like how it drove the War Ketches.
- Location
- Seattle, Washington
73% of caravels and 44% of carracks are damaged, so we wouldn't be using them anyway unless our craftworld gets attacked.
I want you to go here, read the sections on ork and Eldar ships and then come back. Try to compare the mid-range ork weapons and the range of the eldar weapons on cruisers and escorts, I'll wait. Now, how effective is kiting as a fleet when your weapons and the enemy weapons have the same range? I'd say it's not effective! You're in range and they are also in range and you can't meaningfully concentrate fire. yes, we don't have to go into range of Ork heavy gunz, but they still have their regular Gunz, Zappas, and Shokkas.
Also, our plasma weapons aren't mid-tier. We focused on power, cost, and range, so they ought to be some of our stronger, longest ranged macroweaponry. Grav weapons, on the other hand, are frequently noted as short ranged. So your design is equally poor at sniping with it's most powerful heavy guns, although I'll admit your exotic weapons will outperform non-exotic technology.
And look, 2 aethersails isn't great, but Dragonships just have one. Lots of Eldar ships have 0 turrets as well, so having any at all is an upgrade.
Some are. The Graviton Thruster Lance is explicitly not.
If we had Fusion Lances, they'd be longer ranged than Graviton Thrusters, but alas we didn't pick that tech and thus have no Heavy Naval plasma guns.
Interestingly, the Amplifier also lacks any note that it's short ranged; I suspect the issue with those is that the Amplifiers just aren't that powerful on their own, requiring another grav weapon to get decent use out of them.
Last edited:
Yeah, well I use a graviton thruster lance in my design, and LOLROFL's doesn't. He goes for a high-damage short-to-medium range combo.
- Pronouns
- Reader
[ ] Plan Star Citadel Carracks # 2
-[ ] Light Capital #2
--[ ] Swap 2 weapon slots and 1 heavy weapon slot for 4 system slots.
-[ ] Equipment: 12 system slots. 4 weapon slots and 1 heavy weapon slot.
--[ ] 1 × Heavy Naval Starlance Weapon Battery
--[ ] 1 × Imploder Bombard Naval Weapon Battery
--[ ] 1 × Grand Macro Amplifier Bombard Naval Weapon Battery
--[ ] 2 × Fatetwister Cannon Naval Weapon Batteries
-[ ] System Slots 12/12
--[ ] 3 × Æthersails 3 SS
--[ ] 1 × Plasma Thruster 2 SS
--[ ] 1 × Point Defense Spike Cannon Weapon Battery 1 SS
--[ ] 1 × Point Defense Suncannon Weapon Battery 1 SS
--[ ] 1 × Hollow Field 2 SS
--[ ] 1 × Grace Shield 3 SS
we are planning to refit three or four carracks for participation in the wild hunt. given the importance of impressing our ally Durran Fellwinter, sending ships which make use of our Exotics weaponry is a wise move.
this would still give us back 114 Fatebender Psyscopes.
#2 model keeps the heavy starlance but goes for an amplifier & Imploder combo with some of the naval batteries while mixing things up in the anti fighter point defense and grabbing the Holo Field Grav Shield Defenses at their proper prices.
ultimately this will be a good at all ranges stealth brawler that takes very little damage even over say, a decades long military campaign, like the wyld hunt. with the amount of exotics we are investing in this ship, going heavy on defenses is only sensible.
-[ ] Light Capital #2
--[ ] Swap 2 weapon slots and 1 heavy weapon slot for 4 system slots.
-[ ] Equipment: 12 system slots. 4 weapon slots and 1 heavy weapon slot.
--[ ] 1 × Heavy Naval Starlance Weapon Battery
--[ ] 1 × Imploder Bombard Naval Weapon Battery
--[ ] 1 × Grand Macro Amplifier Bombard Naval Weapon Battery
--[ ] 2 × Fatetwister Cannon Naval Weapon Batteries
-[ ] System Slots 12/12
--[ ] 3 × Æthersails 3 SS
--[ ] 1 × Plasma Thruster 2 SS
--[ ] 1 × Point Defense Spike Cannon Weapon Battery 1 SS
--[ ] 1 × Point Defense Suncannon Weapon Battery 1 SS
--[ ] 1 × Hollow Field 2 SS
--[ ] 1 × Grace Shield 3 SS
we are planning to refit three or four carracks for participation in the wild hunt. given the importance of impressing our ally Durran Fellwinter, sending ships which make use of our Exotics weaponry is a wise move.
this would still give us back 114 Fatebender Psyscopes.
#2 model keeps the heavy starlance but goes for an amplifier & Imploder combo with some of the naval batteries while mixing things up in the anti fighter point defense and grabbing the Holo Field Grav Shield Defenses at their proper prices.
ultimately this will be a good at all ranges stealth brawler that takes very little damage even over say, a decades long military campaign, like the wyld hunt. with the amount of exotics we are investing in this ship, going heavy on defenses is only sensible.
Last edited:
*cough*
You may want to check the reference tables in the most recent threadmark. Full out capitals don't pay the same slot costs as the Escorts do.
It's a good thing we aren't using 40k Eldar weapons then.
If you had taken a look at our weapons list you will notice that things like Pulsars, and Starcannons aren't there.
What are there are things like Las-lances which are outright stated to be comparable to human equivalents.
Using BFG as a source is questionable too since I could just as easily pull numbers from BFGA2 where Eldar capital ship weapons have comparable range to Imperial weapons and outrange most common Ork weapons as a counterpoint or Lexicanum where Pulsars aren't portrayed as short ranged either.
- Location
- Seattle, Washington
This argument is going in circles. There is no objectively correct answer on how much extra mobility is worth compared to firepower. Both designs are workable.
Agreed, I'm not gonna convince that guy. Though, I did decide to try making a more high-mobility design based on our actual refit-able hulls.
[ ] War Carrack High Impact Refit
-[ ] Chassis: Carrak (+8 Systems, +6 Weapons, +2 Heavy Weapons),
-[ ] 1 weapon slot traded for 1 system slot.
-[ ] Weapons: 3x Fatetwister Cannon weapons batteries, 5x Macro-Suncannons, 1x Heavy Starlance (1 heavy weapon slot mounts three Suncannons)
-[ ] Systems: 3x Aethersails, 1x Plasma Drive, 1x Fatesheer Cannon Close-In Weapons Battery, Holofield
Not a lot of room for more exotic weapons, but I can keep what's there and just...slam five suncannons on the hull. That'll make a hell of a mid-long range battery.
[ ] War Carrack High Impact Refit
-[ ] Chassis: Carrak (+8 Systems, +6 Weapons, +2 Heavy Weapons),
-[ ] 1 weapon slot traded for 1 system slot.
-[ ] Weapons: 3x Fatetwister Cannon weapons batteries, 5x Macro-Suncannons, 1x Heavy Starlance (1 heavy weapon slot mounts three Suncannons)
-[ ] Systems: 3x Aethersails, 1x Plasma Drive, 1x Fatesheer Cannon Close-In Weapons Battery, Holofield
Not a lot of room for more exotic weapons, but I can keep what's there and just...slam five suncannons on the hull. That'll make a hell of a mid-long range battery.
It's not though, one design has a comparable amount of engines as our existing ships, the other does not. That means one is incapable of keeping up with the rest of the fleet while the other doesn't have this problem.
Reminder that it takes 1 BAP to refit each capital ship and every turn vote so far has involved people fighting tooth and nail for where every bit of BAP is being allocated.
We have 24 Carracks and 54 Caravels that are out of action before we even begin to tap into the fully functioning ships which means we've got 88 BAP worth of damaged ships to refit between these two designs. Even if we sank all our BAP into refits it would still take more than 5 turns to refit all of these ships.
Given how precious BAP is right now we aren't going to be refitting more than a handful each turn so it is outright detrimental to push out little groups of ships that are incapable of keeping up with the rest of our much more numerous active fleet.
Mechanis
Confirmed Techpriest
- Location
- Deep Net
MMMMMMkay.
Firstly.
I tend to do the crunchy bits first because it, you know, gives me time to write all that pesky "dialogue" and "descriptions that aren't ass" stuff.
You also aren't actually doing very much, storywise, right now, compared to the crunchy bits of sorting out your army and navy, which are presently in a bad way; As you exhaust low-hanging technological fruit and get your army sorted out, the ratio of Doing Things vs Setting Up To Do Things will almost certainly be increasing.
Firstly.
Yes. yes they did. This has now been fixed.
This turn's Big Story Chunk is now at three pages long, so.
I tend to do the crunchy bits first because it, you know, gives me time to write all that pesky "dialogue" and "descriptions that aren't ass" stuff.
You also aren't actually doing very much, storywise, right now, compared to the crunchy bits of sorting out your army and navy, which are presently in a bad way; As you exhaust low-hanging technological fruit and get your army sorted out, the ratio of Doing Things vs Setting Up To Do Things will almost certainly be increasing.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Yeah, that seems fair. Anyway, I'll take another look with the revised numbers! Thanks for covering them!
EDIT: Cephied is right apparently, Carrack has a bit more gun I can strap on though, very nice.
[ ] War Carrack
-[ ] Chassis: Carrack (8 Systems, 6 Weapons Batteries, 2 Heavy Weapons Batteries)
-[ ] Convert 2 Weapons Batteries and 1 Heavy Weapons Battery to System Slots (+4 Systems)
-[ ] Weapons: 1x Heavy Starlance, 4x Fatetwister Cannon Batteries
-[ ] Systems: 3x Aethersail, 1x Plasma Drive, 1x Fatesheer Close In Weapons Battery, 1x Holofield, 1x Grav-Shield,
The main difference between this and the previous version is it has the Plasma Drive for greater speed and redundancy, and an additional Fatetwister Cannon battery to give it even better bullet hose potential, so this is an absolutely nightmarish ship that gets in close rips you apart, and skirts out from any return fire due to the fact that it's actively contemptuous in the face of lucky shots.
5 Exotic weapons is expensive, but as a special "Premium Model", it's worth the cost, and this is mostly a conversion kit for already existing Carracks as most of what it is compared to the original version is having Holofields and Grav-Shields, along with a few extra guns. We should be able to afford this, and it'll last us a long time as a main combatant.
I wouldn't want to make any of these from "Scratch", given their absurd Exotic costs, but as a placeholder to last us until we can field bespoke hulls? It'll do.
EDIT: Cephied is right apparently, Carrack has a bit more gun I can strap on though, very nice.
[ ] War Carrack
-[ ] Chassis: Carrack (8 Systems, 6 Weapons Batteries, 2 Heavy Weapons Batteries)
-[ ] Convert 2 Weapons Batteries and 1 Heavy Weapons Battery to System Slots (+4 Systems)
-[ ] Weapons: 1x Heavy Starlance, 4x Fatetwister Cannon Batteries
-[ ] Systems: 3x Aethersail, 1x Plasma Drive, 1x Fatesheer Close In Weapons Battery, 1x Holofield, 1x Grav-Shield,
The main difference between this and the previous version is it has the Plasma Drive for greater speed and redundancy, and an additional Fatetwister Cannon battery to give it even better bullet hose potential, so this is an absolutely nightmarish ship that gets in close rips you apart, and skirts out from any return fire due to the fact that it's actively contemptuous in the face of lucky shots.
5 Exotic weapons is expensive, but as a special "Premium Model", it's worth the cost, and this is mostly a conversion kit for already existing Carracks as most of what it is compared to the original version is having Holofields and Grav-Shields, along with a few extra guns. We should be able to afford this, and it'll last us a long time as a main combatant.
I wouldn't want to make any of these from "Scratch", given their absurd Exotic costs, but as a placeholder to last us until we can field bespoke hulls? It'll do.
Last edited:
- Pronouns
- Reader
thanks. I've fixed things. As I said in post, if we want to impress Fellwinter, we need to bring our exotics and defenses, and we would want to invest in the survivability of high exotic use naval vessels anyways.
F0lkL0re
Officially not an Inquisitor
- Location
- Shetland
Let me see a Caravel hull is:
So here's a proposal
[] Line Caravel refit
-[] weapons
--[] 1 heavy weapon battery: Heavy Graviton Thruster Lance
--[] 1 weapons battery: Heavy Torpedo Launcher
--[] 1 weapons battery: Spike Macrocannon
--[] 2 weapons batteries: 2 Macro-Suncannons
-[] systems
--[] 2 Æthersails
--[] Holo-Field
--[] Grav-Shield
--[] 1 Spike Point Defense Battery
and the Battle Caravel has:
which uses 2 weapons batteries, 1 heavy weapon battery and 4 system slots
So here's a proposal
[] Line Caravel refit
-[] weapons
--[] 1 heavy weapon battery: Heavy Graviton Thruster Lance
--[] 1 weapons battery: Heavy Torpedo Launcher
--[] 1 weapons battery: Spike Macrocannon
--[] 2 weapons batteries: 2 Macro-Suncannons
-[] systems
--[] 2 Æthersails
--[] Holo-Field
--[] Grav-Shield
--[] 1 Spike Point Defense Battery
The actual ship design seems fine, but your design notes need to be updated.
I think I'd go with a Suncannon battery rather than an extra Fatetwister just so there's no exotics cost to the refit, but that's minor. Given the amount of exotics on these things, burning weapon slots for extra defenses is a call I agree with.
Last edited:
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
The actual ship design seems fine, but your design notes need to be updated.
I think I'd go with a Suncannon battery rather than an extra Fatetwister just so there's no exotics cost to the refit, but that's minor.
I'm willing to pay 50 Psy-Scopes per refit given how relatively few of these we have, and it'll make these things absolutely hellish to fight.
Professor Vesca
Good News Everyone!
We can always recover exotics for the sword of vaul, once we have it.
- Pronouns
- Reader
that's 4 system slots I think?
your spending 50 Fatebender Psyscopes per carracks refits with 54 carracks to refit total, meaning your using 2700 when we'll have 2029 at the start of next turn.
- Location
- Seattle, Washington
We have 54 carracks, that is 2700 psy-scopes
Just give them 1 suncannon
Last edited:
- Pronouns
- Reader
better yet pair them down and give them a grav amplifier & Imploder combo or two suncannons, gaining Fatebender Psyscopres for other things.
Do plasma drives add any real acceleration on an aethersail equipped ship? I've been proceeding under the theory that they are largely backup drives, not meaningful contributions to flank speed. A bit like, well, a small put-put motor on a sailing ship that's used for getting in and out of harbor.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
A bit, yeah, it's still a fourth form of propulsion--and one that'll work even in environments that Aethersails are less efficient with (Directly approaching or going away from the system's primary)