Ok, hold on, unrelated to the change in slot prices for the defense systems...

Are the base slots for the Dhow and Carrack correct?

I'm pretty sure the Dhow should only have 3 Standard Batteries, rather than being strictly higher slots than the Caravel. And the Carrack, according to the reference on the first page, should have 6. Did they get swapped?
 
A Carrack with two Æthersails and no other propulsion might not be up to much diving, I think.

My default assumption is that a heavier vessel with the same amount of drives as a lighter vessel will be slower; do we have any evidence otherwise?
There's not room for more if you want to stack on more and more engines, not if you also want defenses. I have 8 system slots on that hull, and 8 weapons slots. Rather than cut out the short range wepaons battery or the shields, I opt for a perfectly comulant dual-sail configuration. There are eldar ships that only have one sail, so two shouldn't be that slow. It's still four macrocannons and two heavy lances at range.


Ok, hold on, unrelated to the change in slot prices for the defense systems...

Are the base slots for the Dhow and Carrack correct?

I'm pretty sure the Dhow should only have 3 Standard Batteries, rather than being strictly higher slots than the Caravel. And the Carrack, according to the reference on the first page, should have 6. Did they get swapped?
I think they did, so I'm going with the front-page being correct.
 
I was copy-pasting the armament from the Battle Carrack directly.
Wasn't a criticism of your plan, I'm quite aware the Battle Carrack is only carrying three standard batteries.

I just think there's something up with Mechanis' reference table. The weapon batteries listed for the Dhow and Carrack hulls this update don't match the slots listed for those hulls on the front page, and since the version from this update makes certain hulls strictly higher slot than other hulls in the same class...
 
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I took the Plasma Engine off to free up the points. So 3 (Aethersails), + 2 (CIWB), + 2 (Holofield) + 3 (Grav-Shield) = 10, and then the last one for the Hangar

And which weapon slot am I missing? 1 Heavy Starlance Battery, 3 Fatetwister Cannon Batteries? I've got 4 Batteries of standard and 2 Heavy, but I liquidate one of each of those to get System Slots back.
Carracks come with 6 weapon batteries, according to the front page:
Carrack hulls can be made into reasonably formidable cruisers, boasting a pair of heavy weapons batteries, six standard weapons batteries, and eight system slots.
Slots: 8 System | 6 Weapon Batteries | 2 Heavy Weapon Batteries

I see now that there is a mismatch between this update and the front page

Edit: I think # of weapon batteries for Dhow and Carrack got swapped by accident
 
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So, looking at those Transport Bays.

People have said putting Webway Gates on cheap, poorly defended ships is a bad idea, but whether or not you agree with that, Webway Gates are too big to easily refit into a Caravel or Carrack.

And that means in the immediate future we've got issues with sending out light forces, say for the purpose of scavenging fleet wreckage or supporting other Craftworlds on light missions.

Do we want to make dedicated light transport ships, scatter small transport bays among our actual combatants, or what?
 
Ngl, it's starting to get really frustrating waiting a week or two and being handed another unit creation thing instead of a story update of any kind. There is such a thing as too much crunch.
 
Have to wait until Mechanis weighs in then, before doing a finalized draft.
Look at Dhow and Carrack on the update and the front page. The weapon battery numbers are swapped.

So, looking at those Transport Bays.

People have said putting Webway Gates on cheap, poorly defended ships is a bad idea, but whether or not you agree with that, Webway Gates are too big to easily refit into a Caravel or Carrack.

And that means in the immediate future we've got issues with sending out light forces, say for the purpose of scavenging fleet wreckage or supporting other Craftworlds on light missions.

Do we want to make dedicated light transport ships, scatter small transport bays among our actual combatants, or what?
We could simply accept sending 1 battleship with any force intended for ground combat. We do have a decent number of BBs.
 
There's not room for more if you want to stack on more and more engines, not if you also want defenses. I have 8 system slots on that hull, and 8 weapons slots. Rather than cut out the short range wepaons battery or the shields, I opt for a perfectly comulant dual-sail configuration. There are eldar ships that only have one sail, so two shouldn't be that slow. It's still four macrocannons and two heavy lances at range.



I think they did, so I'm going with the front-page being correct.
If space for survivability features is an issue it's because the hull just isn't designed for close quarters combat.

Trying to outfit our current capital ships for close range combat when all of our capital scale hulls are favor Weapon Slots over System Slots is trying to force a square peg into a round hole.

Even more so when the vast majority of our fleet still isn't equipped with Holo-Fields or Grav-Shields which means any kind of close combat ship is going to be going in largely unsupported unless you want to throw a bunch of unprotected ships into close range combat.

Anyways, I personally favor dropping the Carrack's Heavy Starlance for a Heavy Amplifier and Imploder combo as we're going to be needing those Starcrystals for our Brig and Sword of Vaul refits.

We already have a ton of Heavy Starlance's in our fleet thanks to our War/Assault Ketch's and given how few weapons can actually stop Grav-Weapons I think the Heavy Amplifier Imploder combo will give us a whole new attack vector beyond just hosing things down with Starlance fire.

The Brig in particular is kind of a hot mess as it's only using a single one of it's special weapon slots while two of it's heavy weapon slots are being used for fitting regular naval weapons instead of heavy ones.
So, looking at those Transport Bays.

People have said putting Webway Gates on cheap, poorly defended ships is a bad idea, but whether or not you agree with that, Webway Gates are too big to easily refit into a Caravel or Carrack.

And that means in the immediate future we've got issues with sending out light forces, say for the purpose of scavenging fleet wreckage or supporting other Craftworlds on light missions.

Do we want to make dedicated light transport ships, scatter small transport bays among our actual combatants, or what?
We could have a go at a clean sheet Dhow design capable of fitting a few transport bays or a clean sheet Clipper design that can fit a Transport bay and a Webway Gate.

I expect that a Dhow designed for acting as a transport shouldn't take too long to build given our current Caravel only takes a single turn to build.

The Transport bay on the Clipper should alleviate some of the security concerns that come with the Webway Gate as you could have a warhost onboard to counter boarders going after the Webway Gate.

Similarly if the ship is going down you could evacuate the Warhost from the ship through the Webway gate before scuttling the whole thing.
 
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Anyways, I personally favor dropping the Carrack's Heavy Starlance for a Heavy Amplifier and Imploder combo as we're going to be needing those Starcrystals for our Brig and Sword of Vaul refits
I disagree. We have 54 carracks and 73 caravels, 2/3 of which are damaged. We need the refits to be fast so we can get them done in a timely manner. Replacing more weapons than we need to will drastically increase refit time
 
Ngl, it's starting to get really frustrating waiting a week or two and being handed another unit creation thing instead of a story update of any kind. There is such a thing as too much crunch.
i can very much understand that.

feels like we are a bit lost in the sauce for the scale we are operating at
 
If space for survivability features is an issue it's because the hull just isn't designed for close quarters combat.

Trying to outfit our current capital ships for close range combat when all of our capital scale hulls are favor Weapon Slots over System Slots is trying to force a square peg into a round hole.

Even more so when the vast majority of our fleet still isn't equipped with Holo-Fields or Grav-Shields which means any kind of close combat ship is going to be going in largely unsupported unless you want to throw a bunch of unprotected ships into close range combat.

Anyways, I personally favor dropping the Carrack's Heavy Starlance for a Heavy Amplifier and Imploder combo as we're going to be needing those Starcrystals for our Brig and Sword of Vaul refits.

We already have a ton of Heavy Starlance's in our fleet thanks to our War/Assault Ketch's and given how few weapons can actually stop Grav-Weapons I think the Heavy Amplifier Imploder combo will give us a whole new attack vector beyond just hosing things down with Starlance fire.

The Brig in particular is kind of a hot mess as it's only using a single one of it's special weapon slots while two of it's heavy weapon slots are being used for fitting regular naval weapons instead of heavy ones.
I think you need to internalize a few facts here. Fact one, a holofield is all the defense a cannon eldar ship has, other than maybe a few points of Reinforce Hull. Fact two, by putting any sort of second defense field on, we're already making our ships significantly more tanky than their counterparts by adding another layer of the survivability onion. Fact three, those short ranged weapons are more powerful so when you do a driveby of an ork Kill Kroozer, you leave a hulked or exploding burning wreck in your wake. Fact four, all Eldar ships are fast, some are just faster than others.

So if your objection is that my ship isn't durable enough to survive an attack run, then I say it is once you understand that eldar ships are durable before they're hit. If your arguement is that I'm trying to force a square peg into a round hole, no I'm not, I'm leaning into the hull's weapons-slot focus. If you think it's not equipped to fly without friends, well glory be, we can make it some friends by keeping our conversions running, and in the meantime focus on small numbers engagements! And if you think I'm picking the wrong weapons, you've misunderstood my design as purely a refit instead of a 'clean sheet' design for a new-build cruiser.
 
I took the Plasma Engine off to free up the points. So 3 (Aethersails), + 2 (CIWB), + 2 (Holofield) + 3 (Grav-Shield) = 10, and then the last one for the Hangar

And which weapon slot am I missing? 1 Heavy Starlance Battery, 3 Fatetwister Cannon Batteries? I've got 4 Batteries of standard and 2 Heavy, but I liquidate one of each of those to get System Slots back.
Aren't aethersails unarmored and large? It seems rather foolish to have our propulsion be entirely made up of unarmored, large systems for one of our capital ship designs.

And yes, I get that we have shields, but capital ships are very much going to end up in brawls, and it would be deeply unfortunate if one of our capital ship designs is rapidly crippled as soon as its shields go down, even if the rest of the ship is fine.

Just my thoughts. Maybe I'm worrying over nothing.

Ngl, it's starting to get really frustrating waiting a week or two and being handed another unit creation thing instead of a story update of any kind. There is such a thing as too much crunch.
Yeah, this. There is very little story to this story. And that's what it is--when even the bulk of the rolls and battles are not even visible to us other than perhaps a few sentences, there's almost no meat on the bones.

Throw in all of these individual unit creations back to back to back, and you've got...well, pacing that is more like a series of brick walls than a classic flow.

We're running a faction, not a design bureau. This is like the leadership of the federal government dropping everything to design individual ships...repeatedly.
 
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Aren't aethersails unarmored and large? It seems rather foolish to have our propulsion be entirely made up of unarmored, large systems for one of our capital ship designs.

And yes, I get that we have shields, but capital ships are very much going to end up in brawls, and it would be deeply unfortunate if one of our capital ship designs is rapidly crippled as soon as its shields go down, even if the rest of the ship is fine.

Just my thoughts. Maybe I'm worrying over nothing.


Yeah, this. There is very little story to this story. And that's what it is--when even the bulk of the rolls and battles are not even visible to us other than perhaps a few sentences, there's almost no meat on the bones.

Throw in all of these individual unit creations back to back to back, and you've got...well, pacing that is more like a series of brick walls than a classic flow.

They're unarmored and large, but concealed by holofield and protected by the Grav-Shield.
 
Aren't aethersails unarmored and large? It seems rather foolish to have our propulsion be entirely made up of unarmored, large systems for one of our capital ship designs.

And yes, I get that we have shields, but capital ships are very much going to end up in brawls, and it would be deeply unfortunate if one of our capital ship designs is rapidly crippled as soon as its shields go down, even if the rest of the ship is fine.

Just my thoughts. Maybe I'm worrying over nothing.
Aethersails are fast. We can avoid brawls in anything except last ditch defense of a craftworld or something. Additionally, holoshields combined with Grav shields mean our ships will be really hard to damage. Finally, the ships have 3 sails, so if they lose 1 they can still retreat
 
Making a capital that's decently tough in a brawl is much easier on a Clipper hull.

Something like this:

[] Black Horizon
-[] Clipper
-[] 1x Holo-Field
-[] 1x Grav Shield
-[] 3x Æthersail
-[] 1x Plasma-Thruster
-[] 1x Suncannon PD
-[] 1x Reinforced Hull
-[] 4x Macro-Suncannon
-[] 1x Gravetic Amplifier Chieorovile
-[] 1x Macro-Imploder Chieorovile

Is a lot more capable of getting in punch-ups where it's going to be taking fire. That's not something we can reach through a refit, though, so the question is "do we want an iffy capital that we can easily refit to now or a solid design we'll keep using in the long term?"

And well, in the long term, we're almost certainly going to want a properly militarized hull for our starships. Something "crappy but actually carries defenses" is good enough, right now.
 
Yeah, we should be designing fast refits now, even if they have suboptimal weapons like las-lances, because we will eventually be replacing them with better designs later.
 
Making a capital that's decently tough in a brawl is much easier on a Clipper hull.

Something like this:

[] Black Horizon
-[] Clipper
-[] 1x Holo-Field
-[] 1x Grav Shield
-[] 3x Æthersail
-[] 1x Plasma-Thruster
-[] 1x Suncannon PD
-[] 1x Reinforced Hull
-[] 4x Macro-Suncannon
-[] 1x Gravetic Amplifier Chieorovile
-[] 1x Macro-Imploder Chieorovile

Is a lot more capable of getting in punch-ups where it's going to be taking fire. That's not something we can reach through a refit, though, so the question is "do we want an iffy capital that we can easily refit to now or a solid design we'll keep using in the long term?"

And well, in the long term, we're almost certainly going to want a properly militarized hull for our starships. Something "crappy but actually carries defenses" is good enough, right now.
I should note that 'Oh we need something decently tough to brawl' isn't the only option here you guys. We can just...fight it out, and punch the other guy out first. You know, how eldar capital ships fight? Move like a butterfly, sting like a suncannon? Like, that's not decently tough, that's almost *freaky* tough by Eldar standards, isn't it?
 
I think you need to internalize a few facts here. Fact one, a holofield is all the defense a cannon eldar ship has, other than maybe a few points of Reinforce Hull. Fact two, by putting any sort of second defense field on, we're already making our ships significantly more tanky than their counterparts by adding another layer of the survivability onion. Fact three, those short ranged weapons are more powerful so when you do a driveby of an ork Kill Kroozer, you leave a hulked or exploding burning wreck in your wake. Fact four, all Eldar ships are fast, some are just faster than others.

So if your objection is that my ship isn't durable enough to survive an attack run, then I say it is once you understand that eldar ships are durable before they're hit. If your arguement is that I'm trying to force a square peg into a round hole, no I'm not, I'm leaning into the hull's weapons-slot focus. If you think it's not equipped to fly without friends, well glory be, we can make it some friends by keeping our conversions running, and in the meantime focus on small numbers engagements! And if you think I'm picking the wrong weapons, you've misunderstood my design as purely a refit instead of a 'clean sheet' design for a new-build cruiser.
Holo-Fields do not make a ship impossible to hit, just very difficult to hit as canon Eldar aren't exactly curbstomping everyone they run into and regularly lose to the Orks, Chaos, and the Imperium.

The massed fire which the Orks favor is also the best counter to Holo-Field equipped ships barring aimbot shenanigan's from weapons like Fatetwisters.

This is further exacerbated by your ships inferior mobility compared to our existing ships as being slower means the Orks need to saturate less space with weapons fire in order to hit you since your ship won't be able to cover as much potential space in the same timespan as our current ships.

The one engagement our Holo-Field equipped ships took part in was only low level skirmishing. While they took no damage compared to our Holo-Fieldless ships taking plenty of damage note how none of our major capital ships took damage which suggests that the Orks never came in numbers significant enough for our capitals to get involved.

Trying to force limited engagements where we aren't horribly outnumbered isn't going to work when we are overwhelmingly outnumbered by the Orks on a strategic scale.

Our most likely reasons for attacking or defending against the Orks will either be because we need to hit critical infrastructure which will be heavily guarded or be because we are forced to defend a location we cannot give up which means that the Orks would be coming in force.

While you could make an argument for going after small concentrations of Ork ships to trim down their numbers before a big fight you still run into the issue that we are horrendously outnumbered so even relatively "small" Ork fleets will still likely outnumber us by a significant degree.

Your design doesn't have any Plasma Thrusters either thanks to how limited System Slots are on Carracks.

That makes your design very vulnerable to being mobility killed due to the fragility of Aethersails as it needs to expose itself to a ton of fire to leverage a significant portion of it's weapons.

That mobility kill vulnerability is further exacerbated by the fact that the QM has stated that Aethersails are vulnerable to vehicle scale weapons that strikecraft carry which conveniently should also bypass the ship's conversion fields since those things can't stop slow moving objects which strikecraft should count as given they bypass Void-shields in canon.
Re: Strike Craft & Voidships
Cliff's Notes version: Strike Craft with Superheavy weapons can hurt a Voidship. Strike Craft with Bomb Bays can also hurt a Voidship. Strike Craft that carry troops can (attempt to) board a Voidship and cause problems. Otherwise, the most a strikecraft can do is scratch damage, barring explicitly unarmored systems (Aethersails, certain types of sensor and commissions equipment, etc) or attempting to attack and disable an enemy's hangers.
Given you only have the System Slots for a single PD battery this thing isn't going to be swatting down a ton of fighters either.

Notice how all of the issues I've brought up could be fixed with more System Slots (more engines, more PD, etc.)?

So yes, you are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole as all those weakness's I've pointed out could be resolved with a more System Slot heavy hull like the Clipper.

Fundamentally with our current hulls we are much better off sticking with a long range kiting paradigm because none of our big ships have the System Slots to fit a lot of survivability improving features without eating into our Weapon Slot.
 
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So, here is what I think we should do for caravels:
[ ] War Caravel
-[ ] Battle Caravel Refit (+8 Systems, +4 Weapons, +1 Heavy Weapons)
-[ ] 2x Naval Las Lance
-[ ] 1x Heavy Las Lance
-[ ] 2x lascannon PD batteries
-[ ] 2x Aethersails
-[ ] Remove 1x Lascannon PD battery
-[ ] Add 1x Holofield, 1x Grav shield, 1x Naval Suncannon Battery, 1x Heavy Torpedo Launcher

This refit reduces the Caravel's PD to drastically improve defense and firepower
 
Caravels should be upgunned to a middle-stage thing, because they don't use exotics, so we can pivot it fairly easily to our Pre-Wartime thing.
 
Holo-Fields do not make a ship impossible to hit, just very difficult to hit as canon Eldar aren't exactly curbstomping everyone they run into and regularly lose to the Orks, Chaos, and the Imperium.

The massed fire which the Orks favor is also the best counter to Holo-Field equipped ships barring aimbot shenanigan's from weapons like Fatetwisters.

This is further exacerbated by your ships inferior mobility compared to our existing ships as being slower means the Orks need to saturate less space with weapons fire in order to hit you since your ship won't be able to cover as much potential space in the same timespan as our current ships.

The one engagement our Holo-Field equipped ships took part in was only low level skirmishing. While they took no damage compared to our Holo-Fieldless ships taking plenty of damage note how none of our major capital ships took damage which suggests that the Orks never came in numbers significant enough for our capitals to get involved.

Trying to force limited engagements where we aren't horribly outnumbered isn't going to work when we are overwhelmingly outnumbered by the Orks on a strategic scale.

Our most likely reasons for attacking or defending against the Orks will either be because we need to hit critical infrastructure which will be heavily guarded or be because we are forced to defend a location we cannot give up which means that the Orks would be coming in force.

While you could make an argument for going after small concentrations of Ork ships to trim down their numbers before a big fight you still run into the issue that we are horrendously outnumbered so even relatively "small" Ork fleets will still likely outnumber us by a significant degree.

Your design doesn't have any Plasma Thrusters either thanks to how limited System Slots are on Carracks.

That makes your design very vulnerable to being mobility killed due to the fragility of Aethersails as it needs to expose itself to a ton of fire to leverage a significant portion of it's weapons.

That mobility kill vulnerability is further exacerbated by the fact that the QM has stated that Aethersails are vulnerable to vehicle scale weapons that strikecraft carry which conveniently should also bypass the ship's conversion fields since those things can't stop slow moving objects which strikecraft should count as given they bypass Void-shields in canon.

Given you only have the System Slots for a single PD battery this thing isn't going to be swatting down a ton of fighters either.

Notice how all of the issues I've brought up could be fixed with more System Slots (more engines, more PD, etc.)?

So yes, you are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole as all those weakness's I've pointed out could be resolved with a more System Slot heavy hull like the Clipper.

Fundamentally with our current hulls we are much better off sticking with a long range kiting paradigm because none of our big ships have the System Slots to fit a lot of survivability improving features without eating into our Weapon Slot.
I'm sick and tired of the fucking 'oh we need more survivability' talk. NO this ship is not meaningfully more vulnerable than existing designs! IT HAS ACTUAL DEFENSES. You are getting too hung up on 'it might take a critical hit and be mobility killed' as if that's not a thing that can happen to any ship. Yes, the best defense against holofields is massed fire. That's why it has a conversion shield! And you won't be able to mass fire for long against a design with this many guns! Yes, it doesn't have any plasma thruster, because I'd have to remove the conversion shield to fit it and you'd be throwing a fit if it didn't have that too! No, it's not effective at swatting down tons of fighters because that's not it's role.

Our fleet ought to hold that the best defense is a good offense, and get out there and hit people, not 'stick with a long range kiting paradigm' because our long ranged kiting weapons aren't actually notably longer range than enemy weapons. My Solar Dragon is already fitted as a long range design with it's primary weapons, it's just this one short-ranged weapons battery that has everyone saying it's a brawler. But it's not, and that weapon is there as much for flavor as because I expect people to use it. Have you ever even looked at the original BFG designs? Do you remember how many of them have stuff like "Oh this ship has a long ranged weak weapon and a short ranged high power weapon battery?" Or you can split fire, and focus that small weapon on an enemy ship coming in for a ram while the long ranged ones focus on a more distant enemy.

Yes, I am short on system slots compared to a Clipper design. News flash, a clipper design is TOO SHORT ON GUNS for my taste here. More guns means more dead enemies and dead enemies don't shoot back. A clipper ship might be more survivable against chance hits but it's going to get more shots fired at it in the same fights because you'll be starting from a significant firepower disadvantage.
 
I'm sick and tired of the fucking 'oh we need more survivability' talk. NO this ship is not meaningfully more vulnerable than existing designs! IT HAS ACTUAL DEFENSES. You are getting too hung up on 'it might take a critical hit and be mobility killed' as if that's not a thing that can happen to any ship. Yes, the best defense against holofields is massed fire. That's why it has a conversion shield! And you won't be able to mass fire for long against a design with this many guns! Yes, it doesn't have any plasma thruster, because I'd have to remove the conversion shield to fit it and you'd be throwing a fit if it didn't have that too! No, it's not effective at swatting down tons of fighters because that's not it's role.

Our fleet ought to hold that the best defense is a good offense, and get out there and hit people, not 'stick with a long range kiting paradigm' because our long ranged kiting weapons aren't actually notably longer range than enemy weapons. My Solar Dragon is already fitted as a long range design with it's primary weapons, it's just this one short-ranged weapons battery that has everyone saying it's a brawler. But it's not, and that weapon is there as much for flavor as because I expect people to use it. Have you ever even looked at the original BFG designs? Do you remember how many of them have stuff like "Oh this ship has a long ranged weak weapon and a short ranged high power weapon battery?" Or you can split fire, and focus that small weapon on an enemy ship coming in for a ram while the long ranged ones focus on a more distant enemy.

Yes, I am short on system slots compared to a Clipper design. News flash, a clipper design is TOO SHORT ON GUNS for my taste here. More guns means more dead enemies and dead enemies don't shoot back. A clipper ship might be more survivable against chance hits but it's going to get more shots fired at it in the same fights because you'll be starting from a significant firepower disadvantage.
It objectively is less survivable though.

By reducing mobility in the name of firepower your ship can't cover as much potential space as a design with more engines which means that the effectiveness of Holo-Fields is reduced since the Orks would need to fill less space with weapons fire in order to land a hit on your ship.

In addition, being slower means the ship gets either gets left behind when the rest of the fleet starts to kite or it forces the rest of the fleet to slow down which negatively impacts the rest of the fleet.

The slowness, limited PD loadout, and lack of hangar means that it is even more vulnerable to strikecraft in situations where it gets isolated and this is further compounded by the lack of Plasma Thrusters increasing the chance of the ship getting mobility killed since even vehicle scale weapons can disable Aethersails.

Even from a firepower standpoint your ship isn't impressive as you're stripping all the ship's current exotic weapons and fitting them predominately with our mid end Plasma weapons rather than using our high end exotics or Grav-Weapons as my design or Alectai's proposed.

Edit:
Pretty much all the Carrack and Caravel designs being proposed have some sort of shield along with Holo-Fields, your design having conversion fields along with Holo-Fields doesn't make it special in terms of survivability.

Our ships don't operate on their lonesome, they operate as a part of a fleet.

Given the fact that most of our ships are running a significant number of engines it makes sense to keep that consistent so our ships can stay in formation with one another.
 
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Caravels should be upgunned to a middle-stage thing, because they don't use exotics, so we can pivot it fairly easily to our Pre-Wartime thing.
We have 73 caravels, so I figured fast refits are better than perfect refits, but now that I think about it, the bottleneck seems to be AP for starting refits, not dock-space, so long refit time shouldn't pose a notable problem.

So you are right, although I oppose how your design trades away a weapon slot:
[ ] War Caravel V2
-[ ] Battle Caravel Refit (+8 Systems, +4 Weapons, +1 Heavy Weapons)
-[ ] 2x Naval Las Lance
-[ ] 1x Heavy Las Lance
-[ ] 2x lascannon PD batteries
-[ ] 2x Aethersails
-[ ] Remove 1x Lascannon PD battery, all Las lances
-[ ] Add 1x Holofield, 1x Grav shield, 3x Naval Suncannon Battery, 1x Heavy Torpedo Launcher, 1x Heavy graviton thruster lance
 
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