Assuming we can actually start looting, which is not what Mechanis said we could do in the way of salvage runs, I'd say send the 2nd Heavy Militia. We've pretty thoroughly refit their armor, so they should be sufficiently survivable.
A Different Breed (Warhammer 29K)
DarkLight140
Credit to Team
- Location
- Lost in my thoughts
Look, if their allies have already scried for them, then our scrying for them will not make the situation worse since Kairos already knows what there is to know. If their allies have not scried for them, then we have no starting point for where to look for them and so will need to scry for them. It feels to me like we need to have someone scry to the able to take a shot at winning this one at all, so paranoia over Kairos is useless- it's a forced move and we can only deal with the consequences.
I am reasonably sure that if we don't touch a category at all its research won't go away (see Meson, sitting there since game start). So if we leave combi-grav entirely untouched and devote everything to Haywire, it should be there with the same set of votes next turn.
Considering that the moot was held way outside our map of the webway and we don't seem to have had trouble navigating there, I don't think getting to the general area where Nacretinei was last seen is likely to be a problem, nor will finding the people we met at the moot who will want to talk to us anyway, since they'll have told us about where they are.
I agree that bypassing quest mechanics won't work. Fortunately that is not being proposed, since the next step of the quest is "go search for them" and not "run around for five years talking to everyone they knew". If a diplomatic action is necessary, which I personally doubt but will concede is possible, it needs to be taken in concert with immediate movement of enough fleets to actually find them- and, if you're concerned about the ability to fight whatever has caused them problems which is not unreasonable, a warfleet sufficient to at least fight its way out after encountering it and report back. There isn't a reasonable interpretation of their situation where an extra five years of wait time can be afforded, because the clock on their faction quest started when the game started and we didn't even get it until twenty years late.
The fact that we, the revealers of the Curse and thwarter of a thousand thousand of his plots is scrying for them would probably be more salient to Kairos than a couple of random small and minor craftworlds doing so, and seems more likely to encourage him to dig into it further, to do his own scrying and try to interfere.
At least, that's how I see it. We've raised our profile a lot, and anything we're interested in he'll probably be interested in, if only to spite us.
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I'm fairly sure of that as well, but I'm also fairly sure Alratan was referring to the fact that Haywire Bombs are 3-5 turns, while Scramblers and (if taken) Haywire guns are "?? turns" and thus if we sink all our AP into Haywire, we won't be touching Combi-Gravs for a while.
Though it still might be less time than it takes us to get another go around at the untouched applications if we skip some.
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DarkLight140
Credit to Team
- Location
- Lost in my thoughts
The concern that anything we specifically scry for will be given a lot more weight and be likely to draw fire than something anyone else scries for is fair. I'll give you that one. So if we decide that we shouldn't be scrying at all, what is your suggestion for how we should be handling this quest? Just send extra ships to the general area they were last seen as per their allies and comb around with a somewhat less precise starting point? Something else?
Ah. That's also true... although, I'm not sure that we need anything combi-grav for that long while. They don't do anything too exciting compared to other weapons systems, and "research compact microfusion" is potentially a centuries-long research chain anyway so delaying it a couple decades won't hurt us.
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- Pronouns
- Reader
I thought you were talking about refits things from martial at first for one.
at this point though it's priority. I'm putting the seer ap and the ability to maintain pressure on the curses while spending AP on other projects over getting foundries done a turn early. our military while important isn't in a state where getting those factories up is a critical this turn action.
maybe in the process of creating this we figure out variations for others. maybe it's just the scale involved. shrine of Khane was a lot bigger than I expected and had a lot more practical utility. maybe the network of facilities and the Psyker energy charged through the ritual circle have a beneficial effect. it's more likely than there simply being no option to expand Seer.
the update confirms that they themselves are looking, and while they may be small, I reckon between them and their two allies their spending more seer ap than we are.
then there is the fact that anything scryed by the seers of Vau-Vulkesh is probably up their on Kaeros the fateweavers list of things to fuck with.
it's not. the QM confirmed that meeting them during the Aeldmoot would give a modest boost to meeting with them diplomatically post moot because meeting them post moot is the natural follow up step to start assisting them and begin the quest line. believe it to be as stupid as you like, but facts are facts.
A small and a two tiny craftworlds, assuming they haven't suffered significant losses in the Fall, have between them less than a fifth of our population.
And they're not guaranteed to have the basic Seer infrastructure.
DarkLight140
Credit to Team
- Location
- Lost in my thoughts
I wasn't able to find a quote of this, and neither did the two other people who looked when I asked. As far as I can tell this is simply your personal interpretation of the line "You can indeed do some basic groundwork at this time to get a modest head start on your various diplomatic actions", which doesn't say anything whatsoever about the A Pearl Without Price quest being one of those diplomatic actions, nor even if it is that it should be treated as solely a diplomatic action instead of, say, taking the logical route of treating it as a major military endeavor halfway across the galaxy on a very short timeframe to failure and assigning resources appropriately.
If you have some other quote by all means please share it; I would be happy to be incorrect and have an extra turn to relax on this one.
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Mechanis
Confirmed Extremely Screwed
- Location
- Absconding with Alacrity
Shuriken weapons are actually mostly equivalent to Needlers in terms of actual when-firing performance; Needlers have superior armor-peircing properties but inflict more localized damage, Shuriken weapons are more likely to ricochet off tougher armor but inflict fairly nasty slashing wounds to things they hit. The big deal difference between them techwise at the moment is that Ulthwe didn't have Fatecaster weapons to study for the ammo generation, so they're stuck with conventional premade ammo blocks.
Grav-weapons are for the most part shield-ignorant, yes. There are shield types that can block them---You yourselves have one---but they are moderately uncommon. The primary trade-off is that they tend to be shorter ranged than most other types of weapons in the same category, whether you are sorting by damage, cost, or size.
Re: Nacretinei; Their friends are absolutely looking with what they can afford to spare already, this turn, because temporary interruptions in communication between Craftworlds is pretty normal at the moment but missing something like the Aeldmoot after stating one's intentions to go is another matter entirely. Throwing in your own two cents to the effort in a reasonable manner would require a degree of actual coordination, yes, though you can certainly earmark fleet and warhost assets for the physical searching portion in advance if you so desire, which would give you a modest head start on that front. (ordinarily I would follow this with warnings about then not having them, but as you are explicitly in something of a lul period thanks to some very favorable rolls and your specific focuses over the first three turns having cleared out most of the immediate issues more quickly than anticipated, that doesn't really apply.)
- Pronouns
- Reader
he was referring to basically all cooperation opportunities unlocked as part of the Aeldmoot requiring actual AP investment to follow up on.
as evidenced by this bit strait from the update major issues.
edit: ahh. already confirmed. glad that misunderstanding is over.
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Ah, fair enough on the refit thing.
Possibly. It might be that expanding Seer AP might be gated behind some Stewardship action to set up a better education system that's gated behind having an actual government, rather than it being a question of physical infrastructure, which might be less helpful to Seers than better organisation.
As long as our weapons are still resoundingly superior (which infinite ammo hax certainly seems like), I think we can still take the win and generously offer our factory design to the poor benighted souls.
He's just confirmed it.
Ah.
Sorry, @DarkLight140 , it looks like there is a critical enough Diplomacy action right now that I'll be going with moving into the Steward's Hall this turn.
- Pronouns
- Reader
excellent. glad to have that sorted.
@Mechanis I've been guessing for a while now that after we buggered off and left Grimtusk without an opponent he took his doomstack and armada to fight fairly close by K'Phar. are we on a position to be know if that's the case or not without sending scouts or scrying?
[] Plan Basic Industry
- [] Stewards
-- [] Move Existing Councils (5 AP)
-- [] Manage Diplomatic Affairs (2 AP)
- [] Bonesingers
-- [] Enhance Industry x 2 (6 AP + 2 x Forge of Vaul)
-- [] Armour Foundry - Voidguard Warsuit (2 AP)
-- [] Weapon Forge - Sunblaster Rifle (2 AP)
-- [] Weapon Foundry - Light Rending Blade (2 AP)
-- [] Develop Basic Grenades (1 AP)
-- [] Continue ship repair (1 AP)
-- [] Continue ship refits (1 AP)
- [] Seers
-- [] The Eye of Tzeentch (10 AP)
- [] Seekers
-- [] Grav-Gun Hybridization
--- [] Perfect Hybridization (6 AP)
-- [] Reverse-engineer Haywire Weapons
--- [] Scrambler Fields (6 AP)
- [] Warriors
-- [] Organize Troops (2 AP)
-- [] The Burden of Command (1 AP)
-- [] Chassis Militization x3 (6AP)
-- [] Develop Refit Profiles (1 AP)
-[ ][WARRIOR] Deploy forces to conduct an exploration and salvage mission in the Kronite System
--[ ] Send 1 Combat Brig, 4 Battle Carracks, 10 Assault Ketches, and 20 Lance Sloops, Zahr-Tann's 15th Scout Fleet is to assist as they are able and provide early warning in case any local Problems decide to start coming our way.
--[ ] 2nd Heavy Militia are to be deployed as a precautionary measure and to ensure the security of our investigators in case anything nasty is still living in those wrecks, their skills in close quarters combat will be valuable then.
---[ ] This is not to be a combat operation despite the forces being deployed, our objective is to salvage any artifacts from the human wreckage that may provide useful insights for our own Seekers, sure, it's crude and poorly developed--but the core principles are still useful, and we're hardly in a position to be picky for sources of how to rebuild our forge-craft without the blessings of the Phoenix Court. Withdraw if there is any significant risk of sustaining damage.
-- [] Send the 15th Scout Fleet to scout the wreckage in the Kronite system.
-- [] Prepare to deploy forces to look for and potentially rescue Nacretinei while coordinating with their allies:
--- [] 3rd Heavy Fleet, 4th Line Fleet, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 1st Transport Fleet
--- [] 1st-10th Battle Hosts, 15th-30th Line Host, 1st-4th Armour Assault Hosts, 1st Siegebreaker Host
--- [] Send 1 Combat Brig, 26 War Ketchs, and 5 Nettle Class Destroyers
--- [] Grand Warcasting Circle, 3rd Heavy Militia, 1st, 4th, 5th Militia
Added in deployments in preparation for potentially needing to rescue Nacretinei in force
Edit: Transferred the core of the Kronite forces to the Nacretinei mission, givn the optics of sending mostly our forces on a safe mission and mostly Zahr-Tann's on a dangerous one, which is something we were warned of.
I'm sending the Combat Brig so we can deploy lots of forces through a Webway Gate using the 1st Transport Fleet as relays or as backup if the Brig is destroyed, as a single Webway gate is a bottleneck, but I don't want to send more to reduce the attack surface to make i5 easy to denfed against attacks through the gate against our Craftworld.
- [] Stewards
-- [] Move Existing Councils (5 AP)
-- [] Manage Diplomatic Affairs (2 AP)
- [] Bonesingers
-- [] Enhance Industry x 2 (6 AP + 2 x Forge of Vaul)
-- [] Armour Foundry - Voidguard Warsuit (2 AP)
-- [] Weapon Forge - Sunblaster Rifle (2 AP)
-- [] Weapon Foundry - Light Rending Blade (2 AP)
-- [] Develop Basic Grenades (1 AP)
-- [] Continue ship repair (1 AP)
-- [] Continue ship refits (1 AP)
- [] Seers
-- [] The Eye of Tzeentch (10 AP)
- [] Seekers
-- [] Grav-Gun Hybridization
--- [] Perfect Hybridization (6 AP)
-- [] Reverse-engineer Haywire Weapons
--- [] Scrambler Fields (6 AP)
- [] Warriors
-- [] Organize Troops (2 AP)
-- [] The Burden of Command (1 AP)
-- [] Chassis Militization x3 (6AP)
-- [] Develop Refit Profiles (1 AP)
--[ ] Send 1 Combat Brig, 4 Battle Carracks, 10 Assault Ketches, and 20 Lance Sloops, Zahr-Tann's 15th Scout Fleet is to assist as they are able and provide early warning in case any local Problems decide to start coming our way.
--[ ] 2nd Heavy Militia are to be deployed as a precautionary measure and to ensure the security of our investigators in case anything nasty is still living in those wrecks, their skills in close quarters combat will be valuable then.
---[ ] This is not to be a combat operation despite the forces being deployed, our objective is to salvage any artifacts from the human wreckage that may provide useful insights for our own Seekers, sure, it's crude and poorly developed--but the core principles are still useful, and we're hardly in a position to be picky for sources of how to rebuild our forge-craft without the blessings of the Phoenix Court. Withdraw if there is any significant risk of sustaining damage.
-- [] Send the 15th Scout Fleet to scout the wreckage in the Kronite system.
-- [] Prepare to deploy forces to look for and potentially rescue Nacretinei while coordinating with their allies:
--- [] 3rd Heavy Fleet, 4th Line Fleet, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 1st Transport Fleet
--- [] 1st-10th Battle Hosts, 15th-30th Line Host, 1st-4th Armour Assault Hosts, 1st Siegebreaker Host
--- [] Send 1 Combat Brig, 26 War Ketchs, and 5 Nettle Class Destroyers
--- [] Grand Warcasting Circle, 3rd Heavy Militia, 1st, 4th, 5th Militia
Added in deployments in preparation for potentially needing to rescue Nacretinei in force
Edit: Transferred the core of the Kronite forces to the Nacretinei mission, givn the optics of sending mostly our forces on a safe mission and mostly Zahr-Tann's on a dangerous one, which is something we were warned of.
I'm sending the Combat Brig so we can deploy lots of forces through a Webway Gate using the 1st Transport Fleet as relays or as backup if the Brig is destroyed, as a single Webway gate is a bottleneck, but I don't want to send more to reduce the attack surface to make i5 easy to denfed against attacks through the gate against our Craftworld.
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- Pronouns
- Reader
given the lull period it does make sense to be using our assets rather than locking them up however.
since we can do this for a headstart this turn, which is different than just sending fleets scouting, how about the following.
-[][Warrior] Prep the Zahr-Tann 3rd Heavy Fleet and 6th Line Fleet and 3rd, 9th, and 15th Scout fleets, as well as the 3rd, 6th, 9th battle warhosts and 3rd, 6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, 18th, 21th Line warhosts for coordination with Stel'ys-Ran and it's Allies in the search for Nacretinei.
heavy line fleets can also be used in a scouting role and it gives the fleet in question some Grand Cruiser Class firepower and some extra light cruisers, and enough escorts to win some serious appreciation and get results. thoughts?
transport fleet feels a bit heavy? you can fit 10 warhosts with just the heavy fleet and line fleet. also, probably want to mention coordination in their.
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If things are really bad we might be pulling out a few survivors and relics from a burning Craftworld...
Made the change to mention coordination.
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Actually, given how dangerous rescuing it might be, and the optics about sending a force that's mostly our troops on a milk run salvage mission and a force heavily weighted to our allies to dive into the Webway and rescue a lost Craftworld, I think we should consider not doing the Kronite mission this turn and intead send those forces on the Nacretinei mission.
What do people think?
What do people think?
Given that Mechanis only ever said we could do a more-in-depth survey of Kronite, my plan just called for sending a single scout fleet to Kronite and another to Ectosa to go look, and we probably don't even need to send that much.
I'm entirely fine with not trying to loot immediately.
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- Pronouns
- Reader
I think your a little too pessimistic about this. the Drukhari aren't unified yet, so tackling a small craft world in just a few years is beyond them. most likely their lost in the webway after having taken unfamiliar routes to escape some raiders, and we just need to find them.
I think we are going to keep coordinating during the duration of the quest line, so change the wording a smidge.
kinda excessive. these are likely rudimentary Drukhari raiders before they were whipped into shape and likely lacking the tech and quality for proper military like Zahr-Tann. if the danger was that great we'd have more to go on than just them vanishing in order to indicate the danger inherent in the quest line.
more likely than not we'll find evidence of how dangerous things are before we actually find Nacretinei and be given the option to reinforce our fleets. Mechanis is talented and reasonable writer who gives us problems we can overcome with enough effort, rather than GW.
I'd specify them as "to scout the wreckage in the Kronite system"
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I think it's much better to have and not need extra forces than the opposite way around when we're in the Webway. Particularly as Mechanis has said we're in such a good spot that he can skip the warnings about needing to keep a defence force at home.
Mechanis has already told us the Webway is dangerorus, by saying this:
I think we've received fair warning. It's not just the proto-Drukhari we have to worry about*, it's the Things and the Daemons that we and they might encounter in the Webway.
As I say above, I think it's a case of better safe than sorry.
* And one of the things we may have to worry about is that the Webway Port Cities were big. In some sources, Dyson sphere big. Even if they don't have proportionately large or professional armies, they may simply have incredibly vast populations of murder cultists using the remnants of Pre-Fall gear.
Vect hasn't come to power and banned them yet, so they're probably still using psyker powers and psychically controlled devices. They may have started off wealthier than we did, as they're often the old nobility, so even if they're a disorganised rabble if they preserved lots of exotic equipment from before the Fall that hasn't been used up yet they could be a terrible threat.
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- Pronouns
- Reader
fair enough. I'll take what you've written for Nacretinei into my own plan but I'm still doing Kronite scavenge. the search isn't likely to finish quickly and Grimtusk forces will find the system eventually. best to start now before we end up with even more missions in need of ships.
Part of the issue I have with doing Kronite is the optics. We were warned about differential treatment of our own and our allies' forces, and sending predominantly or our own forces to salvage and predeominantly allied forces into the depths of the Webway seems like it could be interpreted like that.
And if we do make it proportional, then we're effectively stripping forces from where they may be needed. It's a hard one.
I think we can get away with just scouting this turn and then potentially sending troops to investigate next turn. YMMD.
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Ok, so, [Insert XKCD StandardsPLANS! page here]
Tentative draft:
[] Plan Insert Witty Name Here Part A
-[] [Steward] Move Existing Councils (5 AP)
-[] [Steward] Manage Diplomatic Affairs (2 AP)
-[] [Bonesinger] Enhance Industry (3 AP)
--[]Forge of Vaul: Aid a Construction/Repair project (Enhance Industry)
-[] [Bonesinger] Enhance Industry (3 AP)
-[] [Bonesinger] Seer Circle (4 AP)
--[] Forge of Vaul: Aid a Construction/Repair project (Seer Circle)
-[] [Bonesinger] Continue ship repair (1 AP)
-[] [Bonesinger] Continue ship refits (1 AP)
-[] [Bonesinger] Develop Melta Weapons (1 AP)
-[] [Bonesinger] Develop Basic Missile Launchers (2 AP)
-[] [Seer] Raise a Seeing Circle (2 AP)
-[] [Seer] The Eye of Tzeentch (8 AP)
-[] [Seeker] Reverse-engineer Haywire Weapons (12 AP total)
--[] Haywire Guns (2 AP)
--[] Haywire Bombs (4 AP)
--[] Scrambler Fields (6 AP)
-[] [Warrior] Organize Troops (2 AP)
-[] [Warrior] The Burden of Command (1 AP)
-[] [Warrior] Design a Light Capital (Cruiser or Light Cruiser)x2 (4 AP)
-[] [Warrior] Chassis Militizationx2 (4 AP)
-[] [Warrior] Develop Refit Profiles (1 AP)
--Wraithweave Brigantine replaces Wraithbone Trauma Plates
-[][Warrior] Dispatch an Allied Force to conduct a "see what's what" mission to more throughly survey things in the Kronite System
--[] Send Craftworld Zahr-Tann's 15th Scout Fleet
--[] The 2nd Heavy Militia are to be deployed as a precautionary measure and to ensure the security of our investigators in case anything nasty is still living in those wrecks, their having actual armour should really help them not die.
--[] This is not a combat operation, our objective is to "see what's what" in preparation to begin salvaging any artifacts from the human wreckage that may provide useful insights for our own Seekers. Withdraw if there is any significant risk of sustaining damage.
-[][Warrior] Dispatch an Allied Force to conduct a "see what's what" mission to more throughly survey (things in the) Ectosa (System)
--[] Send Craftworld Zahr-Tann's 13th Scout Fleet
--As with the previous expedition, this is not a combat operation, just an operation to get the pre-salvage work done. If the Scout Fleet meets any significant resistance they are to withdraw.
-[][Warrior] Prepare to deploy forces to look for and potentially rescue Nacretinei:
--[] 3rd Heavy Fleet, 4th Line Fleet, 3rd, 5th, 7th Scout Fleet, 1st Transport Fleet
--[] 1st-10th Battle Hosts, 15th-30th Line Host, 1st-4th Armour Assault Hosts, 1st Siegebreaker Host
--[] 26 War Ketch
--[] Grand Warcasting Circle, 3rd Heavy Militia, 1st, 4th, 5th Militia
Going section by section, spoilering the larger ones:
Steward: Don't think there's anything particularly controversial here.
Seer: Again, I don't think there's anything particularly controversial here.
I'd like to get some loose Blade Dancers as well as the Warseers and Battlecasters, but considering they're a 4-turn commitment and very fragile, it's probably better to just shuffle them out of our raised forces. Especially since we don't know how much Seer AP we'll have to dump into the Seer Circle and we can only apply Bird Curse AP in blocks of 2, we don't want to get it ready in a couple of turns and find we need 4 to activate it and 1 locked to a Bladedance Troupe letting us only put 4 AP in the Curse. I guess we could make the initial investment in Warstaff or Witchblade development this turn? I'd rather put the AP in the Curse though, TBH.
Seeker: Going all in on Haywire to leave CombiGrav for a heavier investment later.
I'm not super sold on Haywire Guns, but considering they have some overlap with Haywire Bombs in the "the main issue is the don't-break-self shielding" I have hope doing it this way is better than not. That's also why I went for 4/6 on Bombs/Scramblers, rather than 5/5. Could also go 6/6 and drop Guns, though.
That "suggestions/opinions welcome" goes for the whole draft, actually, especially for which techs to grab in Bonesinger, Guns/not and AP breakdown in Seeker, and what exactly to do for Military (AP or assignments).
"Borrowed" Alratan's fleet plan for Nacretinei on account of that coming up right while I was only most of the way through the plan already, I'll be going over it to see if I want to change stuff around myself.
Tentative draft:
[] Plan Insert Witty Name Here Part A
-[] [Steward] Move Existing Councils (5 AP)
-[] [Steward] Manage Diplomatic Affairs (2 AP)
-[] [Bonesinger] Enhance Industry (3 AP)
--[]Forge of Vaul: Aid a Construction/Repair project (Enhance Industry)
-[] [Bonesinger] Enhance Industry (3 AP)
-[] [Bonesinger] Seer Circle (4 AP)
--[] Forge of Vaul: Aid a Construction/Repair project (Seer Circle)
-[] [Bonesinger] Continue ship repair (1 AP)
-[] [Bonesinger] Continue ship refits (1 AP)
-[] [Bonesinger] Develop Melta Weapons (1 AP)
-[] [Bonesinger] Develop Basic Missile Launchers (2 AP)
-[] [Seer] Raise a Seeing Circle (2 AP)
-[] [Seer] The Eye of Tzeentch (8 AP)
-[] [Seeker] Reverse-engineer Haywire Weapons (12 AP total)
--[] Haywire Guns (2 AP)
--[] Haywire Bombs (4 AP)
--[] Scrambler Fields (6 AP)
-[] [Warrior] Organize Troops (2 AP)
-[] [Warrior] The Burden of Command (1 AP)
-[] [Warrior] Design a Light Capital (Cruiser or Light Cruiser)x2 (4 AP)
-[] [Warrior] Chassis Militizationx2 (4 AP)
-[] [Warrior] Develop Refit Profiles (1 AP)
--Wraithweave Brigantine replaces Wraithbone Trauma Plates
-[][Warrior] Dispatch an Allied Force to conduct a "see what's what" mission to more throughly survey things in the Kronite System
--[] Send Craftworld Zahr-Tann's 15th Scout Fleet
--[] This is not a combat operation, our objective is to "see what's what" in preparation to begin salvaging any artifacts from the human wreckage that may provide useful insights for our own Seekers. Withdraw if there is any significant risk of sustaining damage.
-[][Warrior] Dispatch an Allied Force to conduct a "see what's what" mission to more throughly survey (things in the) Ectosa (System)
--[] Send Craftworld Zahr-Tann's 13th Scout Fleet
--As with the previous expedition, this is not a combat operation, just an operation to get the pre-salvage work done. If the Scout Fleet meets any significant resistance they are to withdraw.
-[][Warrior] Prepare to deploy forces to look for and potentially rescue Nacretinei:
--[] 3rd Heavy Fleet, 4th Line Fleet, 3rd, 5th, 7th Scout Fleet, 1st Transport Fleet
--[] 1st-10th Battle Hosts, 15th-30th Line Host, 1st-4th Armour Assault Hosts, 1st Siegebreaker Host
--[] 26 War Ketch
--[] Grand Warcasting Circle, 3rd Heavy Militia, 1st, 4th, 5th Militia
Going section by section, spoilering the larger ones:
Steward: Don't think there's anything particularly controversial here.
Starts two Enhance Industry and a Seer Circle this turn, takes some low-hanging tech.
I'm not 100% married to Melta and Basic Missiles, but I think Melta is likely to be needed for the Ship Design this turn and I'd like to have Basic Missiles done for starting a Strike Craft Chassis Militization, since I think that's a likely weapon design to have mounted on them and I think the available weapons will shape the Chassis. Alternatively we could get Torpedos and Meltas, but since we aren't doing a Torpedo Sloop design this turn and the actually warheads themselves should be largely interchangeable in terms of the ship design, I don't think we need them this turn (and if I'm wrong about the interchangeability, we'll need to redo the Designs for Haywire in a few turns anyway).
Similarly, I don't think we need Grenades this turn, since they should be quite quick to rollout, but probably not quick enough to be able to get them on a Nacretinei Rescue Force before they leave this turn, and we aren't looking at any other significant ground combat in the next few turns.
I'd propose we then only start one Enhance Industry next turn, and assign a Forge use to finishing off whatever's left of our existing one with the rest rolling over, potentially using the other for the Seer Circle depending on rolls this turn. Meanwhile the rest of the uninvested BAP next turn can go to Torpedos, Grenades and getting Primary Power Distribution halfway or so towards done and ready for its project (depending on how our Steward commitments are looking at that point).
I'm not 100% married to Melta and Basic Missiles, but I think Melta is likely to be needed for the Ship Design this turn and I'd like to have Basic Missiles done for starting a Strike Craft Chassis Militization, since I think that's a likely weapon design to have mounted on them and I think the available weapons will shape the Chassis. Alternatively we could get Torpedos and Meltas, but since we aren't doing a Torpedo Sloop design this turn and the actually warheads themselves should be largely interchangeable in terms of the ship design, I don't think we need them this turn (and if I'm wrong about the interchangeability, we'll need to redo the Designs for Haywire in a few turns anyway).
Similarly, I don't think we need Grenades this turn, since they should be quite quick to rollout, but probably not quick enough to be able to get them on a Nacretinei Rescue Force before they leave this turn, and we aren't looking at any other significant ground combat in the next few turns.
I'd propose we then only start one Enhance Industry next turn, and assign a Forge use to finishing off whatever's left of our existing one with the rest rolling over, potentially using the other for the Seer Circle depending on rolls this turn. Meanwhile the rest of the uninvested BAP next turn can go to Torpedos, Grenades and getting Primary Power Distribution halfway or so towards done and ready for its project (depending on how our Steward commitments are looking at that point).
I'd like to get some loose Blade Dancers as well as the Warseers and Battlecasters, but considering they're a 4-turn commitment and very fragile, it's probably better to just shuffle them out of our raised forces. Especially since we don't know how much Seer AP we'll have to dump into the Seer Circle and we can only apply Bird Curse AP in blocks of 2, we don't want to get it ready in a couple of turns and find we need 4 to activate it and 1 locked to a Bladedance Troupe letting us only put 4 AP in the Curse. I guess we could make the initial investment in Warstaff or Witchblade development this turn? I'd rather put the AP in the Curse though, TBH.
Seeker: Going all in on Haywire to leave CombiGrav for a heavier investment later.
I'm not super sold on Haywire Guns, but considering they have some overlap with Haywire Bombs in the "the main issue is the don't-break-self shielding" I have hope doing it this way is better than not. That's also why I went for 4/6 on Bombs/Scramblers, rather than 5/5. Could also go 6/6 and drop Guns, though.
Obviously the Burden of Command is basically Mandatory.
Organise Troops is IMO worth taking just to see exactly how it works, but also some others wanted to shuffle troop types around and hopefully we'll be able to seperate out our Blade Dancers, potentially saving us a lot of Seer AP and turns (especially to replace any that get shot up).
We want to fix up our fleets further, and doing both designs at once should let us plan for synery. I'd like to start Hull Militization, but it's way too expensive to start it this turn, especially when we have a bunch of low-hanging ships to fix still.
Chassis Militization I'm taking primarily for Strike Craft because I really want to get that started alongside or before potential Carriers, since I think that is likely to have design benefits on both sides as one of those "things we don't know we don't know" things, though it is just my own opinion even if I think it's fairly logical one. Also to get started on Jetbikes, since the current ones are terrible and everyone hates them.
As for the Refits, I'd have liked to get more set up, but I'm running kind of tight on Military AP with this plan so I've prioritised. We don't actually have any Needler Rifles produced, just Carbines, so we're probably not going to be able to get any Needler weapons but the 109 carbines onto any Nacretinei Rescue Force we send before it leaves, which isn't likely to be a huge factor. Meanwhile we have nearly 700 Wraithweave Brigandine Armor Suits sitting in the stockpile, which is a pretty significant amount to refit, but not enough to refit everyone, so let's prioritise replacing the Wraithbone Trauma Plates since they're the shittiest. We can toss on a new Refit for the Needlers, and possibly to replace the Wraithbone Hardsuits, next turn. If anyone has a suggestion for a better Refit order (for instance, to focus on armour for whatever Rescue Force we're going to send before we do so), please feel free to make suggestions.
Not sure whether to send along the 2nd Heavy Militia to assist the Scout Fleet with surveying Kronite wreckage, or if they'll be putting off any actual boarding operations till later and we can send them along later... yeah, thinking about it, let's wait.
Organise Troops is IMO worth taking just to see exactly how it works, but also some others wanted to shuffle troop types around and hopefully we'll be able to seperate out our Blade Dancers, potentially saving us a lot of Seer AP and turns (especially to replace any that get shot up).
We want to fix up our fleets further, and doing both designs at once should let us plan for synery. I'd like to start Hull Militization, but it's way too expensive to start it this turn, especially when we have a bunch of low-hanging ships to fix still.
Chassis Militization I'm taking primarily for Strike Craft because I really want to get that started alongside or before potential Carriers, since I think that is likely to have design benefits on both sides as one of those "things we don't know we don't know" things, though it is just my own opinion even if I think it's fairly logical one. Also to get started on Jetbikes, since the current ones are terrible and everyone hates them.
As for the Refits, I'd have liked to get more set up, but I'm running kind of tight on Military AP with this plan so I've prioritised. We don't actually have any Needler Rifles produced, just Carbines, so we're probably not going to be able to get any Needler weapons but the 109 carbines onto any Nacretinei Rescue Force we send before it leaves, which isn't likely to be a huge factor. Meanwhile we have nearly 700 Wraithweave Brigandine Armor Suits sitting in the stockpile, which is a pretty significant amount to refit, but not enough to refit everyone, so let's prioritise replacing the Wraithbone Trauma Plates since they're the shittiest. We can toss on a new Refit for the Needlers, and possibly to replace the Wraithbone Hardsuits, next turn. If anyone has a suggestion for a better Refit order (for instance, to focus on armour for whatever Rescue Force we're going to send before we do so), please feel free to make suggestions.
Not sure whether to send along the 2nd Heavy Militia to assist the Scout Fleet with surveying Kronite wreckage, or if they'll be putting off any actual boarding operations till later and we can send them along later... yeah, thinking about it, let's wait.
That "suggestions/opinions welcome" goes for the whole draft, actually, especially for which techs to grab in Bonesinger, Guns/not and AP breakdown in Seeker, and what exactly to do for Military (AP or assignments).
"Borrowed" Alratan's fleet plan for Nacretinei on account of that coming up right while I was only most of the way through the plan already, I'll be going over it to see if I want to change stuff around myself.
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Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
[ ] Final Draft 2: Final Mix: The Dawn of a New Day
-[ ][STEWARD] Move Existing Councils (5 AP)
-[ ][STEWARD} Manage Diplomatic Affairs (2 AP)
-[ ][BONESINGER] Replace Primary Power Distribution Control (2 AP)
-[ ][BONESINGER] Enhance Industry (3 AP)
--[ ][FORGE] Use the Forge (One Turn Completion)
-[ ][BONESINGER] Seer Circle (4 AP)
--[ ][FORGE] Use the Forge (-1d3 Turns)
-[ ][BONESINGER] Continue ship repair (1 AP) [Strongly recommended]
-[ ][BONESINGER] Continue ship refits (1 AP)
-[ ][BONESINGER] Develop Basic Grenades (1 AP)
-[ ][BONESINGER] Develop Basic Voidship Torpedos (2 AP)
-[ ][BONESINGER] Develop Melta Weapons (1 AP)
-[ ][SEER] Two Scrying Options--Reserved for the Nacretinei Crisis (2 AP)
-[ ][SEER] Raise a Seeing Circle (2 AP)
-[ ][SEER] The Eye of Tzeentch (6 AP)
-[ ][SEEKER] Grav-Gun Hybridization
--[ ] Perfect Hybridization (6 AP)
-[ ][SEEKER] Reverse-engineer Haywire Weapons
--[ ] Haywire Bombs (6 AP)
-[ ][WARRIOR] Organize Troops (2 AP)
-[ ][WARRIOR] The Burden of Command (1 AP)
-[ ][WARRIOR] Design a Light Capital (Cruiser or Light Cruiser) (4 AP)
-[ ][WARRIOR] Chassis Militarization (2 AP)
-[ ][WARRIOR] Develop Refit Profiles (3 AP)
--[ ] Wraithbone Trauma Plates and Wraithweave Void Suits to be replaced with Wraithweave Brigantine. Infantry Lasweapons replaced with Infantry Needle Weapons
-[ ][WARRIOR] Deploy forces to conduct an exploration and salvage mission in the Kronite System
--[ ] Send 1 Combat Brig, 4 Battle Carracks, 10 Assault Ketches, and 20 Lance Sloops, Zahr-Tann's 15th Scout Fleet is to assist as they are able and provide early warning in case any local Problems decide to start coming our way.
--[ ] 2nd Heavy Militia is to accompany as security forces for the expedition
---[ ] This is not to be a combat operation despite the forces being deployed, our objective is to salvage any artifacts from the human wreckage that may provide useful insights for our own Seekers, sure, it's crude and poorly developed--but the core principles are still useful, and we're hardly in a position to be picky for sources of how to rebuild our forge-craft without the blessings of the Phoenix Court. Withdraw if there is any significant risk of sustaining damage.
-[ ][WARRIOR] Deploy 2 Scouting Fleets from Zahr-Tann's forces to assist in scouting the regional Webway.
-[ ][WARRIOR] Have 4 Combat Brigs, 12 Battle Carracks, and 20 War Ketches accompany the 3rd and 5th Scout Fleets, the 3rd Heavy Fleet, and the 6th Line Fleet of Zahr-Tann, they are to serve as a Liberation/Rescue/Search force for Nacretinei once we've coordinated with their allies and gathered the data we can. from them
--[ ] They are additionally to be accompanied by the Vaul-Hammer Warhost and the Grand Warcasting Circle of Vau-Vulkesh, as well as the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Battle and Line Hosts of Zahr-Tann, ideally we don't need the military strength, but it's better to have it and not need it. If further Reinforcements are required, they can be transported through the Webway Gates on our Brigs.
MAJOR REVISION LOG
Grav-Gun Hybridization has been moved up to Basic Hybridization due to significant outcry. This took 2 points from the Scrambler Field project, but it'll get us a superior weapon when it's ready.
Refit Profiles were adjusted to replace our shitty Trauma Plates and Void Suits with Brigantine, and Infantry Lasweapons with Needle Weapons.
Due to absolutely relentless bullying by everyone, removed the Forge and Foundry construction options to start on the Seer Circle and moved the Forge Action to that to speed it up a bit.
Added a deployment to the Kronite System to see if we can sneak a quick salvage op in while nobody's looking that way. Mostly in-house forces using pre-Fall upgunned merchantmen that haven't been refit yet, with orders that this is a salvage and investigation mission, and not a combat one. They are to withdraw if they run into anything greater than token resistance.
On reasonable suggestions and a lack of any real better idea, converted the two Scrying actions into starting the Warstaff project
With some good points brought up, moved the Escort and Strike Craft commissions out so we can do a pass on both of our current Cruiserweight designs at once, so we can build them with complimentary roles in mind.
Fifth Draft's major revision--on even further pushback--was to do a second Enhance Industry boosted by the Forge, trading off the Seer Circle to get it, this gives us 2 more BAP next turn without discarding everything else we need to work on still, as going with 3x Enhance Industry will cost us another 1-2 BAP beyond what we need and only leave us with 4 BAP that we can spend between every other project on our docket, including a lot of basic-of-the-basics level stuff. The remaining AP was put getting some damaged Assault Ketches refit to the War Ketch standard because I couldn't find any good things that only took 1 AP beyond that that wouldn't start another riot.
The Final Draft, and the one I will be submitting, finally decides to stick to my guns and build the Seer Infrastructure upgrade. Even if it just lowers the difficulty, we're still going to need to do a lot of Scrying in the future, and with the pivot of the Final Draft to prepare to bail Nacretinei out of whatever crisis it's in, we'll want to stack the deck as hard in our favor as possible. While it's unlikely we'll one turn this, it's also not impossible, and that's worth hedging for.
The other Major Change is to Seeker Options. I've done some long soul searching, and ultimately decided that "Fine, okay, we can wait on the Scrambler Fields and Haywire Guns, especially since they're both involving Unknown Unknowns", and instead started two 6 AP projects--one for Perfect Hybridization (Which does also require Unknown Unknowns, but if we're going to start salvaging wrecks of non-Space Elfs, we might find a solution to our problems there, and fair is fair, a Perfect Imploder/Amplifier Weapon would be an absolute killbeast against almost all known targets. You don't need many of them, and it probably scales up to vehicle/naval levels much better.)
Finally, with the soft-confirmation that we're not in imminent danger, I detached a large force as part of our earmarked Search Crew for Nacretinei, two Scout Fleets, 2 each Battle and Line Fleets, and a very large detachment of Vau-Vulkesh's wunderwaffen ships, including most of our currently active War Ketches, which are sturdy, stealth-ships with a very scary primary gun for their size--a synergy that's already been confirmed in the Pirate Hunter engagement.
We saved Meros with considerably less than this, so it should be enough as long as they get there in time.
-[ ][STEWARD] Move Existing Councils (5 AP)
-[ ][STEWARD} Manage Diplomatic Affairs (2 AP)
-[ ][BONESINGER] Replace Primary Power Distribution Control (2 AP)
-[ ][BONESINGER] Enhance Industry (3 AP)
--[ ][FORGE] Use the Forge (One Turn Completion)
-[ ][BONESINGER] Seer Circle (4 AP)
--[ ][FORGE] Use the Forge (-1d3 Turns)
-[ ][BONESINGER] Continue ship repair (1 AP) [Strongly recommended]
-[ ][BONESINGER] Continue ship refits (1 AP)
-[ ][BONESINGER] Develop Basic Grenades (1 AP)
-[ ][BONESINGER] Develop Basic Voidship Torpedos (2 AP)
-[ ][BONESINGER] Develop Melta Weapons (1 AP)
-[ ][SEER] Two Scrying Options--Reserved for the Nacretinei Crisis (2 AP)
-[ ][SEER] Raise a Seeing Circle (2 AP)
-[ ][SEER] The Eye of Tzeentch (6 AP)
-[ ][SEEKER] Grav-Gun Hybridization
--[ ] Perfect Hybridization (6 AP)
-[ ][SEEKER] Reverse-engineer Haywire Weapons
--[ ] Haywire Bombs (6 AP)
-[ ][WARRIOR] Organize Troops (2 AP)
-[ ][WARRIOR] The Burden of Command (1 AP)
-[ ][WARRIOR] Design a Light Capital (Cruiser or Light Cruiser) (4 AP)
-[ ][WARRIOR] Chassis Militarization (2 AP)
-[ ][WARRIOR] Develop Refit Profiles (3 AP)
--[ ] Wraithbone Trauma Plates and Wraithweave Void Suits to be replaced with Wraithweave Brigantine. Infantry Lasweapons replaced with Infantry Needle Weapons
-[ ][WARRIOR] Deploy forces to conduct an exploration and salvage mission in the Kronite System
--[ ] Send 1 Combat Brig, 4 Battle Carracks, 10 Assault Ketches, and 20 Lance Sloops, Zahr-Tann's 15th Scout Fleet is to assist as they are able and provide early warning in case any local Problems decide to start coming our way.
--[ ] 2nd Heavy Militia is to accompany as security forces for the expedition
---[ ] This is not to be a combat operation despite the forces being deployed, our objective is to salvage any artifacts from the human wreckage that may provide useful insights for our own Seekers, sure, it's crude and poorly developed--but the core principles are still useful, and we're hardly in a position to be picky for sources of how to rebuild our forge-craft without the blessings of the Phoenix Court. Withdraw if there is any significant risk of sustaining damage.
-[ ][WARRIOR] Deploy 2 Scouting Fleets from Zahr-Tann's forces to assist in scouting the regional Webway.
-[ ][WARRIOR] Have 4 Combat Brigs, 12 Battle Carracks, and 20 War Ketches accompany the 3rd and 5th Scout Fleets, the 3rd Heavy Fleet, and the 6th Line Fleet of Zahr-Tann, they are to serve as a Liberation/Rescue/Search force for Nacretinei once we've coordinated with their allies and gathered the data we can. from them
--[ ] They are additionally to be accompanied by the Vaul-Hammer Warhost and the Grand Warcasting Circle of Vau-Vulkesh, as well as the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th Battle and Line Hosts of Zahr-Tann, ideally we don't need the military strength, but it's better to have it and not need it. If further Reinforcements are required, they can be transported through the Webway Gates on our Brigs.
MAJOR REVISION LOG
Grav-Gun Hybridization has been moved up to Basic Hybridization due to significant outcry. This took 2 points from the Scrambler Field project, but it'll get us a superior weapon when it's ready.
Refit Profiles were adjusted to replace our shitty Trauma Plates and Void Suits with Brigantine, and Infantry Lasweapons with Needle Weapons.
Due to absolutely relentless bullying by everyone, removed the Forge and Foundry construction options to start on the Seer Circle and moved the Forge Action to that to speed it up a bit.
Added a deployment to the Kronite System to see if we can sneak a quick salvage op in while nobody's looking that way. Mostly in-house forces using pre-Fall upgunned merchantmen that haven't been refit yet, with orders that this is a salvage and investigation mission, and not a combat one. They are to withdraw if they run into anything greater than token resistance.
On reasonable suggestions and a lack of any real better idea, converted the two Scrying actions into starting the Warstaff project
With some good points brought up, moved the Escort and Strike Craft commissions out so we can do a pass on both of our current Cruiserweight designs at once, so we can build them with complimentary roles in mind.
Fifth Draft's major revision--on even further pushback--was to do a second Enhance Industry boosted by the Forge, trading off the Seer Circle to get it, this gives us 2 more BAP next turn without discarding everything else we need to work on still, as going with 3x Enhance Industry will cost us another 1-2 BAP beyond what we need and only leave us with 4 BAP that we can spend between every other project on our docket, including a lot of basic-of-the-basics level stuff. The remaining AP was put getting some damaged Assault Ketches refit to the War Ketch standard because I couldn't find any good things that only took 1 AP beyond that that wouldn't start another riot.
The Final Draft, and the one I will be submitting, finally decides to stick to my guns and build the Seer Infrastructure upgrade. Even if it just lowers the difficulty, we're still going to need to do a lot of Scrying in the future, and with the pivot of the Final Draft to prepare to bail Nacretinei out of whatever crisis it's in, we'll want to stack the deck as hard in our favor as possible. While it's unlikely we'll one turn this, it's also not impossible, and that's worth hedging for.
The other Major Change is to Seeker Options. I've done some long soul searching, and ultimately decided that "Fine, okay, we can wait on the Scrambler Fields and Haywire Guns, especially since they're both involving Unknown Unknowns", and instead started two 6 AP projects--one for Perfect Hybridization (Which does also require Unknown Unknowns, but if we're going to start salvaging wrecks of non-Space Elfs, we might find a solution to our problems there, and fair is fair, a Perfect Imploder/Amplifier Weapon would be an absolute killbeast against almost all known targets. You don't need many of them, and it probably scales up to vehicle/naval levels much better.)
Finally, with the soft-confirmation that we're not in imminent danger, I detached a large force as part of our earmarked Search Crew for Nacretinei, two Scout Fleets, 2 each Battle and Line Fleets, and a very large detachment of Vau-Vulkesh's wunderwaffen ships, including most of our currently active War Ketches, which are sturdy, stealth-ships with a very scary primary gun for their size--a synergy that's already been confirmed in the Pirate Hunter engagement.
We saved Meros with considerably less than this, so it should be enough as long as they get there in time.
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