If they didn't come, it would be totally different. Murdering heads of state at a diplomatic conference you've invited them to and taking the opportunity that creates to invade and conquer their nation is such a pretty much the ultimate breach of good faith to the degree that it is quite arguably much worse than anything Biel Tan has done or was planning to do.
Okay, so, point of order, my plan in no way involves killing their head of state. It preferably avoids killing anyone as much as possible. The goal is to capture for the purposes of trial for their crimes against Aeldari (read as "humanity" rather than "humans").
Frankly Cegorach is probably safer than we are, and getting a second key would make him moreso.
Do we actually have confirmation that double the keys is double the control? I've asked a few times and have gotten no response.
 
Do we actually have confirmation that double the keys is double the control? I've asked a few times and have gotten no response.
The description emphasises how difficult powering them would be, so presumably that wouldn't be the case for any one Craftworld given them to use. Even Cegorach would probably have to spend an appreciable fraction of his power on two Keys instead of other areas, but it'd probably be worth it for him.

TL: DR probably only double the control if you can properly power both in the first place.
Yet this must be used adroitly and sparingly, not simply because of the vast Psykeic might which needs must be expended upon even the most minor changes,
 
The description emphasises how difficult powering them would be, so presumably that wouldn't be the case for any one Craftworld given them to use. Even Cegorach would probably have to spend an appreciable fraction of his power on two Keys instead of other areas, but it'd probably be worth it for him.

TL: DR probably only double the control if you can properly power both in the first place.
Yeah, that's what I figured. Really depends on if he's throttled by the throughput of the key he already has or if it can handle as much power as he can afford to give it.
 
I mean bitch will probably try to jump us while we are freeing Isha, so snatching her key will we are keeping her away could be a result of another triple nat100
we better have those anathemic souls when that happens.

And blackstone fortresses and tesseract labyrinths...

How do you like being vored? Well, more like getting your hand caught in a bear trap forever. But still, it's the thought that counts.
 
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i didn't mean "soon" so it wouldn't be competing with the top priorities when everything is on fire.
But there's going to come a point where we have all of the weapons we need... a non warp ftl method might be a good thing to put our seeker ap into.

And i mostly want it for the craftworld.

If the webway gets warped, we could end up trapped in a corner.
The path to Meros was narrowing, and might have left them stranded.
Fea-Eresh was not reachable via the webway until the struggling between Slaanesh and Cegorach caused a new path to appear.

There are probably significant parts of the galaxy we can't get to cos our craftworld doesn't fit in the paths.

So there is a use case.

And a secondary benefit might be giving ulthwe the technology to get away from the eye of terror. If a large craftworld is restricted in where it can travel with the webway, a major one probably has it much worse. The webway there is probably hellish.
when precisely do you think we are going to have the AP to do another fleet refit down the line? right now it's hell, but it's not going to get better. we took a smaller than usual fleet. after expansion and engines we are in foundry & Aid other craft worlds hell. then we enter our own refit and build new ships hell, because we have to start the latter early to make progress.

then we are in more aid and refit the serpent with exotics and more advanced weaponry hell, because it's using probably a quarter of it's weapon batteries and we need to swap the ones it has for Starlances anyway. after that it's shipyard expansion to deal with needing to rotate damaged ships from starting to clear out the ork planets, and general loss of efficiency from the expansion of our alliance beyond our ability to support with merely huge shipyards.

I can see where coming from, but I don't see the stars aligning to make it feasible for broad applications for several centuries. we'd be better off going through our vault and hoping Webway seeds or key pop up, looting crone worlds, or discovering Slaanesh has two Webway keys and forming a coalition to steal one back.
What about susceptibility to warp storms? And temporal warp shenanigans? And demonic attacks?

We could have the technology to avoid all of that.
great, let's have that technology, and not be able to put it on enough of our ships between now and century two anyway, assuming quest mechanics even allow us to do something like that. it feels like something the QM would need to block or nerf for quest balance.
 
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when precisely do you think we are going to have the AP to do another fleet refit down the line?
I want it for the craftworld. If the webway narrows to the point where our battleships can't use it, the craftworld will have been stranded quite a long time.

As for the fleet, we could build a specialized class of ships that have non warp ftl that would let us reach places the webway doesn't.

A destroyer for scouting new regions, and a battleship with a mobile webway portal, so we can deploy there.

I want to have the technology for redundancy.

It's like you didn't even read the post you quoted
 
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I want it for the craftworld. If the webway narrows to the point where our battleships can't use it, the craftworld will have been stranded quite a long time.

As for the fleet, we could build a specialized class of ships that have non warp ftl that would let us reach places the webway doesn't.

A destroyer for scouting new regions, and a battleship with a mobile webway portal, so we can deploy there.

I want to have the technology for redundancy.

It's like you didn't even read the post you quoted
I read the post, my argument is simply focused on the realities of our ability to put it into use.

if it means leaving most of our fleets behind and traveling without them, and without any allied fleets because they lack it, are we really going to want to take our craft world cruising about through the void?

your talking about having maybe a few dozen ships for taking risks reaching places most of our fleet can't?

I'm alright developing the technology in the long-term. I'm sure we can con some craft world into trading for it, but it's not something I ever see us using to any significance. I'd rather focus on an avenue of recovering or developing some means of influencing the webways instead.
 
I read the post, my argument is simply focused on the realities of our ability to put it into use.

if it means leaving most of our fleets behind and traveling without them, and without any allied fleets because they lack it, are we really going to want to take our craft world cruising about through the void?

your talking about having maybe a few dozen ships for taking risks reaching places most of our fleet can't?

I'm alright developing the technology in the long-term. I'm sure we can con some craft world into trading for it, but it's not something I ever see us using to any significance. I'd rather focus on an avenue of recovering or developing some means of influencing the webways instead.
it's a long term plan for me as well. Something useful to put seeker actions in after we've got the basics down.

And it would be a backup for the webway, mostly.

If the webway narrows to the point that would strand the craftworld, we would still have a way to cross galactic distances.

As for leaving the fleet behind, they should still have access to a narrowed down webway, so they could travel to the craftworld's destination in advance.

The craftworld would only be unescorted while traveling faster than light in the materium.

like i said, i don't think it's a difficult technology to reseach. Manipulating the webway is not mutually exclusive with having a better backup ftl, but it is a very difficult technology tree to research, especially without a sample to work off.
 
When we are speaking about eventual ways to deal with Chaos + hubris. What about eventually reforging Khaine?
 
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When we are speaking about eventual ways to deal with Chaos. What about eventually reforging Khaine?
Khaine's fragmented state has advantages while chaos is ascendant.

He can't die further while in this state, so chaos's scheme is permanently stalled.

If we were to reforge him, we'd have to do it somewhere out of reach (like inside an infinity circuit), where Khorne and Slaanesh can't try to kill him again.
 
Khaine's fragmented state has advantages while chaos is ascendant.

He can't die further while in this state, so chaos's scheme is permanently stalled.

If we were to reforge him, we'd have to do it somewhere out of reach (like inside an infinity circuit), where Khorne and Slaanesh can't try to kill him again.
Of note, the Fall gave Khorne and Slaanesh a significant circumstantial advantage due to the narratives involved, while reforging him would have almost opposite narratives.
 
When we are speaking about eventual ways to deal with Chaos + hubris. What about eventually reforging Khaine?
The reason Khaine shattering himself worked to deny the Chaos gods is that to claim any part of him they need to have every shard.

Correspondingly this means if we wanted to put him back together we'd need to collect every shard as well, which is unlikely to happen.
 
it's a long term plan for me as well. Something useful to put seeker actions in after we've got the basics down.

And it would be a backup for the webway, mostly.

If the webway narrows to the point that would strand the craftworld, we would still have a way to cross galactic distances.

As for leaving the fleet behind, they should still have access to a narrowed down webway, so they could travel to the craftworld's destination in advance.

The craftworld would only be unescorted while traveling faster than light in the materium.

like i said, i don't think it's a difficult technology to reseach. Manipulating the webway is not mutually exclusive with having a better backup ftl, but it is a very difficult technology tree to research, especially without a sample to work off.
I have to believe someone at the Aeldmoot has something Webway related and is about to flaunt it for political reasons.

the problem with other FTL is the possibility of the enemy developing a tech which disrupts it, and using that tech to isolate us far from any webway. a greater possibility than you'd thinking with seering and the forces of chaos to consider.

that said, I've already agreed to research it.
 
Yeah. Khane's present state is actually a huge strategic advantage for the Eldar vis a vis fighting the Ruinous Powers, because he's not alive enough to kill or corrupt, but he isn't dead enough for someone to move in on his claimed domains/sphere of influence or stop providing the passive bonus he gives the Eldar just by existing. So basically 99.99999~% of the Chaos toolkit just doesn't work on him as long as he's sharded like he is, because that sort of in-between state is really hard to target properly.

And then somebody figured out the Ritual of the Young King, and he didn't stop laughing for like a decade because it means that the Eldar can still pull out most of his active blessing when they need to, even though he's not got the power for it normally, and have bits of him running around Swording things in the face even though he should be too dead for that.
 
I can't believe I am saying this, But once more we need to ... Urgh Thank Khaine for his contribution during the birth of slannesh and after. Bastard god he may be, But he is a Bastard god of the Eldari and he came through in a big way for us.

Man/god scored more W's during the fall of the eldar then the rest of the species/Pantheon combined.
 
Yeah. Khane's present state is actually a huge strategic advantage for the Eldar vis a vis fighting the Ruinous Powers, because he's not alive enough to kill or corrupt, but he isn't dead enough for someone to move in on his claimed domains/sphere of influence or stop providing the passive bonus he gives the Eldar just by existing. So basically 99.99999~% of the Chaos toolkit just doesn't work on him as long as he's sharded like he is, because that sort of in-between state is really hard to target properly.

And then somebody figured out the Ritual of the Young King, and he didn't stop laughing for like a decade because it means that the Eldar can still pull out most of his active blessing when they need to, even though he's not got the power for it normally, and have bits of him running around Swording things in the face even though he should be too dead for that.
Alright alright alright Khaine, kudos to you for pulling that trick.
 
I can't believe I am saying this, But once more we need to ... Urgh Thank Khaine for his contribution during the birth of slannesh and after. Bastard god he may be, But he is a Bastard god of the Eldari and he came through in a big way for us.

Man/god scored more W's during the fall of the eldar then the rest of the species/Pantheon combined.

The problem is that Khaine is pretty much the main reasons things ever got as bad as they did.
So at best he made up some of the damage he did.
 
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Yeah. Khane's present state is actually a huge strategic advantage for the Eldar vis a vis fighting the Ruinous Powers, because he's not alive enough to kill or corrupt, but he isn't dead enough for someone to move in on his claimed domains/sphere of influence or stop providing the passive bonus he gives the Eldar just by existing. So basically 99.99999~% of the Chaos toolkit just doesn't work on him as long as he's sharded like he is, because that sort of in-between state is really hard to target properly.

And then somebody figured out the Ritual of the Young King, and he didn't stop laughing for like a decade because it means that the Eldar can still pull out most of his active blessing when they need to, even though he's not got the power for it normally, and have bits of him running around Swording things in the face even though he should be too dead for that.
wait, is the ritual of the young king already a thing? As in, is someone about to share it on the moot or will it be changed by virtue of us putting Khaine as a defender of Aeldari in the moment of our greatest need, like ritual of Old Sentinel?
I can't believe I am saying this, But once more we need to ... Urgh Thank Khaine for his contribution during the birth of slannesh and after. Bastard god he may be, But he is a Bastard god of the Eldari and he came through in a big way for us.

Man/god scored more W's during the fall of the eldar then the rest of the species/Pantheon combined.
I am so sad that we can no longer shit on Khaine because he actually did probably one of the most important things for post-fall Aeldari: Prevent us all from acting like fucking Biel-Tan.
 
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wait, is the ritual of the young king already a thing? As in, is someone about to share it on the moot or will it be changed by virtue of us putting Khaine as a defender of Aeldari in the moment of our greatest need, like ritual of Old Sentinel?
I don't think it's happened yet.

But if it did, it was probably Caras Mythair with their five shards.
 
wait, is the ritual of the young king already a thing? As in, is someone about to share it on the moot or will it be changed by virtue of us putting Khaine as a defender of Aeldari in the moment of our greatest need, like ritual of Old Sentinel?

It does exist, because some nutjob invented it to kick a Keeper of Secrets off his ship. It's not widely known, but it exists.
 
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