It's a plausible theory but I don't subscribe to it. Slaanesh is the most jealous and possessive of the four, I don't see it allowing a practice that hurts their pride and claim over Eldar even if it's net positive for Slaanesh.
A Different Breed (Warhammer 29K)
I think that there is a chance that Dark Eldars are already Deva/daemons of Slaneash in all ways that matter, so she is just giving them an illusion of freedom from him.
I disagree here. For example, the Wych Cults quite openly worship Khaine.
The Dark Eldar also have their one pantheon of minor gods, the Dark Muses, who they're probably deva of.
I didn't exactly read the primary sources, but I thought that Drukhari souls just sort of... linger and they just have to be collected extremely quickly.
No, they can be resurrected later, even thousands of years later. El'Uriaq Is an example.
The Haemunculi who raised him says that with the right sacrifice he could have raised Eldanesh from the dead.
It's just more expensive the longer they've been dead, so it usually needs to be done within a couple of days.
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So, it's morning, I'm up, and I've been thinking.
We can use weapons being developed (by Bonesingers) in a turn as part of rationalizations and new designs, and we're probably going to be developing a bunch of new gear come next turn for that purpose, now that we've a larger selection of non-exotic equipment. If nothing else, we'd probably like to have a design to refit capitals into; I don't think we'll have enough of a stockpile of wargear to justify spending all our Steward AP on refitting again.
Might be worth chewing over some designs ahead of time.
... Looking back at our ship design tables, I see that a pair of fighter squadrons take up the same amount of system space as point defense batteries. How well do fighters substitute for those, given they've got other uses as well?
We can use weapons being developed (by Bonesingers) in a turn as part of rationalizations and new designs, and we're probably going to be developing a bunch of new gear come next turn for that purpose, now that we've a larger selection of non-exotic equipment. If nothing else, we'd probably like to have a design to refit capitals into; I don't think we'll have enough of a stockpile of wargear to justify spending all our Steward AP on refitting again.
Might be worth chewing over some designs ahead of time.
... Looking back at our ship design tables, I see that a pair of fighter squadrons take up the same amount of system space as point defense batteries. How well do fighters substitute for those, given they've got other uses as well?
- Location
- Somewhere Beyond the Sea
Decided to try my hand with some ship designs using the new grav-weaponry we have available to us, none of these will feature any kind of exotics but we can swap out a couple for fatetwisters and starlances if we're okay with spending them.
For the capital ships, I won't be designing carriers since we need to focus on refitting our current motley fleet of mid before we can start doing those, but when we do design a carrier fleet we should probably use the alternate hulls that have additional system slots (so we can add more hangars)
[ ] Vibration-Ketch
-[ ] 2x Vibration Bombards, 1x Heavy Graviton Sheer Bombard
-[ ] 1x Æthersail - 1 System slot
-[ ] 1x Reinforced Hull - 1 System slot
-[ ] 1x Plasma Thrusters - 2 System slots
-[ ] 1x Vibration Bombard Point Defense Battery -1 System slot
-[ ] 1x Holo-Field -1 System slot
-[ ] Trade in one weapon slot for 1 System Slot
-[ ] Grav-Shield - 2 system slots.
I'm hoping that this design will be something akin to a close range slugger, slip into a enemy ship's guard and just absolutely chop up their hull with the main guns (both of which love close range engagements), the extra plating on the hull, the holo-fields and the grav-shields should make for a surprisingly resilient frigate that we can use as a harassment force capable of pulling apart larger ships.
That being said, ironically the biggest issue I'm having with the grav-weapons is more of a decision paralysis, there's just so many options.
Anyway.
[ ] Grav-Caravel
-[ ] 1x Heavy Thruster Lance
-[ ] 2x Point Singularity Projectors, 2x Amplifier Bombards
-[ ] 2x Æthersails - 2 system slots
-[ ] 1x Plasma Thruster - 2 system slots.
-[ ] Holo-Field - 1 system slot
-[ ] Grav-Shield - 2 system slots
-[ ] Vibration Bombard Point Defense - 1 system slot
Same system layout as our current War Ketches, but this time the caravels will have a graviton thruster for our heavy slot option, 2 PSP's and 2 amplifiers as our standard battery, general idea of the Gravavel is to basically sit back and lob singularities + amplifiers at the target until the shields are down, and then lay on the hurt with the grav-thruster (doesn't matter if we can't hit a weakpoint or not, carving giant holes is bad news for every warship)
I picked Vibration weaponry to act as my PDF since the ability to ignore armour would come in very handy against enemy fighter-craft and armoured torpedoes (the latter because microwaving their hull is gonna be hell for the pilots and their ammunition and the former because it might cook off the payload before it hits us)
I admit, this a whole lot of conjecture and guesswork since we don't know how the Grav-Weapons work in a naval environment, so until we get a WOG elaborating further on each weapon in their naval variants, this'll remain a concept.
Now we get into the heavyweights.
(Side note but god I wish we had Clippers instead of Carracks)
[ ] Neo-Carrack
-[ ] 1 Heavy Macro Imploder, 1 Heavy Amplifier Bombard
-[ ] 2x Point Singularity Projectors.
-[ ] 3x (???)
-[ ] Trade 1 Weapons battery for 1 system slot.
-[ ] 1x Reinforced Hull - 1 system slot
-[ ] 2x Æthersails - 2 system slots
-[ ] 1x Plasma Thruster - 2 system slots.
-[ ] Holo-Field - 1 system slot
-[ ] Grav-Shield - 2 system slots
-[ ] Vibration Bombard Point Defense - 1 system slot
I admit, I got lazy with the weapon selection here, I'm hoping that there is a synergy between the amplifier "Increasing the effects of gravity on a ship by 30 times" and the imploder's "use the effects of gravity to crush the hull" to make it hit incredibly hard, the PSPs to act as a macrocannon battery equivalent and trading away a system slot for a better hull.
Using only grav-weapons might be a bad idea (alas, my dream of a grav-weapon centric faction will remain a dream) so here would be a different design.
[ ] Exotic Neo-Carrack
-[ ] 2x Heavy Starlance
-[ ] 2x Fatetwister Cannon batteries
-[ ] 2x Point Singularity Projector Batteries
-[ ] 2x Graviton Thruster Lance Batteries
-[ ] 2x Æthersails - 2 system slots
-[ ] 1x Plasma Thruster - 2 system slots.
-[ ] Holo-Field - 1 system slot
-[ ] Grav-Shield - 2 system slots
-[ ] Vibration Bombard Point Defense - 1 system slot
This would replace the reinforced hull with another weapon battery, allowing us to get a diverse mix of fatecaster, singularity and thrusters as our main batteries while reserving the heavy slots for starlances, creating an even mix of weaponry that should punch extremely hard, but might be a little pricey for our tastes.
@Mechanis do grav-weapons ignore void shields?
For the capital ships, I won't be designing carriers since we need to focus on refitting our current motley fleet of mid before we can start doing those, but when we do design a carrier fleet we should probably use the alternate hulls that have additional system slots (so we can add more hangars)
[ ] Vibration-Ketch
-[ ] 2x Vibration Bombards, 1x Heavy Graviton Sheer Bombard
-[ ] 1x Æthersail - 1 System slot
-[ ] 1x Reinforced Hull - 1 System slot
-[ ] 1x Plasma Thrusters - 2 System slots
-[ ] 1x Vibration Bombard Point Defense Battery -1 System slot
-[ ] 1x Holo-Field -1 System slot
-[ ] Trade in one weapon slot for 1 System Slot
-[ ] Grav-Shield - 2 system slots.
I'm hoping that this design will be something akin to a close range slugger, slip into a enemy ship's guard and just absolutely chop up their hull with the main guns (both of which love close range engagements), the extra plating on the hull, the holo-fields and the grav-shields should make for a surprisingly resilient frigate that we can use as a harassment force capable of pulling apart larger ships.
That being said, ironically the biggest issue I'm having with the grav-weapons is more of a decision paralysis, there's just so many options.
Anyway.
[ ] Grav-Caravel
-[ ] 1x Heavy Thruster Lance
-[ ] 2x Point Singularity Projectors, 2x Amplifier Bombards
-[ ] 2x Æthersails - 2 system slots
-[ ] 1x Plasma Thruster - 2 system slots.
-[ ] Holo-Field - 1 system slot
-[ ] Grav-Shield - 2 system slots
-[ ] Vibration Bombard Point Defense - 1 system slot
Same system layout as our current War Ketches, but this time the caravels will have a graviton thruster for our heavy slot option, 2 PSP's and 2 amplifiers as our standard battery, general idea of the Gravavel is to basically sit back and lob singularities + amplifiers at the target until the shields are down, and then lay on the hurt with the grav-thruster (doesn't matter if we can't hit a weakpoint or not, carving giant holes is bad news for every warship)
I picked Vibration weaponry to act as my PDF since the ability to ignore armour would come in very handy against enemy fighter-craft and armoured torpedoes (the latter because microwaving their hull is gonna be hell for the pilots and their ammunition and the former because it might cook off the payload before it hits us)
I admit, this a whole lot of conjecture and guesswork since we don't know how the Grav-Weapons work in a naval environment, so until we get a WOG elaborating further on each weapon in their naval variants, this'll remain a concept.
Now we get into the heavyweights.
(Side note but god I wish we had Clippers instead of Carracks)
[ ] Neo-Carrack
-[ ] 1 Heavy Macro Imploder, 1 Heavy Amplifier Bombard
-[ ] 2x Point Singularity Projectors.
-[ ] 3x (???)
-[ ] Trade 1 Weapons battery for 1 system slot.
-[ ] 1x Reinforced Hull - 1 system slot
-[ ] 2x Æthersails - 2 system slots
-[ ] 1x Plasma Thruster - 2 system slots.
-[ ] Holo-Field - 1 system slot
-[ ] Grav-Shield - 2 system slots
-[ ] Vibration Bombard Point Defense - 1 system slot
I admit, I got lazy with the weapon selection here, I'm hoping that there is a synergy between the amplifier "Increasing the effects of gravity on a ship by 30 times" and the imploder's "use the effects of gravity to crush the hull" to make it hit incredibly hard, the PSPs to act as a macrocannon battery equivalent and trading away a system slot for a better hull.
Using only grav-weapons might be a bad idea (alas, my dream of a grav-weapon centric faction will remain a dream) so here would be a different design.
[ ] Exotic Neo-Carrack
-[ ] 2x Heavy Starlance
-[ ] 2x Fatetwister Cannon batteries
-[ ] 2x Point Singularity Projector Batteries
-[ ] 2x Graviton Thruster Lance Batteries
-[ ] 2x Æthersails - 2 system slots
-[ ] 1x Plasma Thruster - 2 system slots.
-[ ] Holo-Field - 1 system slot
-[ ] Grav-Shield - 2 system slots
-[ ] Vibration Bombard Point Defense - 1 system slot
This would replace the reinforced hull with another weapon battery, allowing us to get a diverse mix of fatecaster, singularity and thrusters as our main batteries while reserving the heavy slots for starlances, creating an even mix of weaponry that should punch extremely hard, but might be a little pricey for our tastes.
@Mechanis do grav-weapons ignore void shields?
Mechanis
Confirmed Extremely Screwed
- Location
- Absconding with Alacrity
Mainly depends on the fighters, of course, with the biggest advantage being an increase in engagement envelope since you can send them way over there to kill enemy fighters without having to bring the whole ship.
Obviously "ideally" you have both, because Defense Onion, but the biggest issue is that squadrons of strike craft tend to lose capacity a lot more quickly than organic point defense on a voidship, because, well, at that scale of combat strike craft are very much "dodge or die, no middle ground". Even a single Lascannon PD grid is going to be shooting at you with ~10 or more on the low side, and that is not exactly easy to just ignore.
Depends on the weapon. Stuff like Amplifiers, which are just directly mucking with gravity typically do, something like a PSP is still vulnerable to "yeet it into the Warp", since it's firing an actual projectile.
I have to admit, I'm somewhat interested in getting a new bomber design simply because we can use those as integrated close air support, and the point singularity weapons and fusion bombards seem like they're quite suited for the purpose. Or maybe heavy Imploder Cannons to go with vehicle Bombards; the Imploders note that they're effective at slowing targets down, which seems useful at increasing the variety of targets vulnerable to being bombarded.
More expensive than the SPG skimmer design that's been suggested per bombard, but they should be able to respond to enemy force concentrations very quickly. And we get two per Special Unit, according to the front page; I think the SPG might be one per unit, based on our existing organization?
Right, I was worried about that. Even Holo-fields and grav-shields can only do so much, huh? Probably still very useful for superiority fights, though.
- Location
- Somewhere Beyond the Sea
Ok that's exactly what I needed to hear, thanks a bunch
One last thing, I was dabbling with the idea of fielding an Imploder and Amplifier together because I was thinking there might be a synergy between the two (amplifying gravity and then crushing things) and I just want to ask if this is something we can do, or if it's just a pipe dream? Because I can imagine that imploders would work very well if gravity was suddenly X times stronger than normal.
It's a synergy Mechanis has previously called out, so I think yes, it's something we can do.
- Location
- Somewhere Beyond the Sea
Oooooh that changes things a lot.
(Chuck Voidsman when his battleship "The Litany of Litany's Litany" get microwaved, poked full of holes, shot at with black holes and gravity is now amplified by 30x Earth's gravity before getting squeezed like a soda can. /jk)
(Chuck Voidsman when his battleship "The Litany of Litany's Litany" get microwaved, poked full of holes, shot at with black holes and gravity is now amplified by 30x Earth's gravity before getting squeezed like a soda can. /jk)
Superheavy mounts are a tough fit with our existing airframes.
The only chassis that can reasonably fit a superheavy would be the Cargo Shuttle airframe which has the following slots:
Slots: 0 R | 2 H | 4 V | 0 SH | 20 S
For reference here are the Passenger Shuttle and Air Racer slots:
You could in theory fit an SH weapon onto a Passenger shuttle as well but you'd need to ditch all but one heavy weapon slot and then you wouldn't have any space for Holo-Fields unless you dropped that final Heavy weapon slot.
The Cargo Shuttle is far better as you'd only need to drop 2 of the Vehicle weapon slots and one Heavy weapon slot to fit the SH weapon and after that you'd still have 2 Vehicle and 1 Heavy slot to play around with.
From there I'd want at least 1 Vehicle weapon slot left so we can cram in a Fatesever as those should be excellent for self defense and then we can figure out what else we need as far as System slots go.
You could probably also do an absolutely murderous but slow Air dominance Fighter by just cramming a Cargo Shuttle full of Fatesevers to sweep the skies with aimbotted Wraithbone spikes that always go for the weakest part of an airframe. It'd probably be a solid tankbuster too given how potent the Fatesevers are.
It would be prohibitively costly though and basically be reserved for special situations rather than as a spammable generalist.
Edit:
I don't think we've actually seen what System slot options are available for airframes so it is possible that there are other things that we may need or want to have on an airframe that could make this tougher.
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Yeah, but the suggested speeder SPG used a vehicle-mount Fusion Bombard, I'm pretty sure. Air Racer mounts two of those just fine, and isn't too expensive, based on the existing Bright Eagle design; almost half of that thing's pricetag is the two 100 EP Starlances it mounts.
Cargo shuttle with a Superheavy is probably also good, but unlike the Air Racer pairs I don't think we've confirmed warhosts can include those.
- Location
- Utrecht
What about putting a superheavy grav amplifier on the starship, and an imploder on a fighter carried on the starship?
In fighter-vs-fighter engagement, they trade well, because fighters are also light vehicles.
But they also get the opportunity to "punch up" when combined with the Naval amplifier gun from the carrier.
In fighter-vs-fighter engagement, they trade well, because fighters are also light vehicles.
But they also get the opportunity to "punch up" when combined with the Naval amplifier gun from the carrier.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
This discussion has me wondering how we'd go about designing a purpose built airframe for combat aircraft. That is, not something derived from shuttles or racers. Is that something we'll start seeing show up under Seeker AP?
- Location
- Germany
Should be able to get started on that pretty soon i think, same for the ground vehicles which are still all civilian frames.
That said, i have strong doubt we will update our fighters anything soon considering the low amount we have of them and us likely only developing a carrier only after we updated all of our current ships.
- Location
- Utrecht
We're going to have some free Seeker AP this turn, depending on what new options get unlocked.
assuming we press on with the Conversion fields, we'll have 10 AP. Of the current turn options, Meson blasters and Haywire weapons are left, and they total 9 AP.
So there's at least 1 left, even if we take both.
- Location
- United Kingdom
There's still the plasma Fusion Lances left to research as well, so that's another 1-3 AP.
Ack. Just noticed an error I made back when we were doing refits: Wraithweave Voidsuits aren't just used by vehicle crews, Militia Marine Squads also use them. Given these units come equipped with Fatesplitter Carbines, that's something we'll want to fix the moment we get the chance.
Militia Marines show up in Hearthguard Skirmish and Militia Heavy detachments; there's two Skirmish detachments in the Grand Warcasting Circle Warhost, and all our Militia warhosts (both heavy and regular) have a Militia Heavy detachment.
More AP to fix.
Militia Marines show up in Hearthguard Skirmish and Militia Heavy detachments; there's two Skirmish detachments in the Grand Warcasting Circle Warhost, and all our Militia warhosts (both heavy and regular) have a Militia Heavy detachment.
More AP to fix.
- Location
- Utrecht
Assuming we keep the option. We didn't keep all of the Grav options from turn 2 to 3 (even though we're probably not missing much...).
- Location
- Germany
We did keep the options.
It just moved from general weapon types to the specific weapons that are nearing production.
These were the options we had in turn 2.
Its us taking several of the options is what resulted in so many free picks this turn.
The options we got in turn 3 covered all 4 general types.
We didn't pick the Torsion weapons as example but still got the actual weapons of that type in our turn 3 vote.
Edit: Looking through the turn 3 gravity actions nothing for the torsion weapons is listed even when all the other weapons types are.
So i am just wrong about us having gotten weapons that fall under torsion.
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All this discussion in regards to making new Eldar Gods has me thinking about other possibilities on how Vau-Velkesh/other Eldar may unknowingly indirectly help the Imperium of Man bring up/grow their own pantheon but this time it would be The Big Three? The Emperor, by his own actions and by his citizens, would be the first to reach godhood by being the Fifth, or Sixth if we count Malal, Choas God.
Due to both Ectosa and Keopsis both actually having valuable DAoT terraforming equipment we can either fix it up for them, snag it all and sell it for a price to other Human/Xenos species. This is where the second Human pantheon God comes in. In 40k lore it is said that Terra itself receives billions of pilgrims that not only revere it as the sacred Homeworld of Humanity but is also considered the most sacred of holy temples due to having the God-Emperor sitting on the Golden Throne there. Once the Emperor/Imperium manages to get a hold of great terraforming tech, they will be able to bring Terra back to it's full glory before and after the Horus Heresy. I wonder what the personification of Terra would be like?
Thirdly, and that is if the Emperor's son's actually stick around to make sure that the Imperium doesn't actually stagnant into a technologically backward hellhole, the Omnissiah god itself that would be the holder of knowledge and safe scientific advancement in technology itself. We can also be indirectly involved in it's creation a little as we try and find the Pandrax lll genetic labs and steal the STC Penacea back from the Dark Eldar. Once things like that are done we can sell or give it away for a price to Imperium.
The Anatolian would no longer be alone in his eternal duty of shepherding and guiding Humanity alone this time as he would not only have his demi-god sons by his side but also Human Chaos God produced entities by his side as well.
Due to both Ectosa and Keopsis both actually having valuable DAoT terraforming equipment we can either fix it up for them, snag it all and sell it for a price to other Human/Xenos species. This is where the second Human pantheon God comes in. In 40k lore it is said that Terra itself receives billions of pilgrims that not only revere it as the sacred Homeworld of Humanity but is also considered the most sacred of holy temples due to having the God-Emperor sitting on the Golden Throne there. Once the Emperor/Imperium manages to get a hold of great terraforming tech, they will be able to bring Terra back to it's full glory before and after the Horus Heresy. I wonder what the personification of Terra would be like?
Thirdly, and that is if the Emperor's son's actually stick around to make sure that the Imperium doesn't actually stagnant into a technologically backward hellhole, the Omnissiah god itself that would be the holder of knowledge and safe scientific advancement in technology itself. We can also be indirectly involved in it's creation a little as we try and find the Pandrax lll genetic labs and steal the STC Penacea back from the Dark Eldar. Once things like that are done we can sell or give it away for a price to Imperium.
The Anatolian would no longer be alone in his eternal duty of shepherding and guiding Humanity alone this time as he would not only have his demi-god sons by his side but also Human Chaos God produced entities by his side as well.
We actually have a ton of fighters since every one of our Combat Brigs has a hanger that should have 3 squadrons of 6 fighters each.
There are 12 active Combat Brigs and another 4 damaged ones (none mention issues with their hangars) so that's 288 fighters in total.
Our only current fighter is the Bright Eagle and they are quite expensive as each of them carries 2 vehicle scale Starlances and have no Holo-Fields or Grav-Shields.
If we have the ability to refit the Bright Eagle we can either give them Holo-Fields and maybe Grav-Shields so they are much more survivable or we could swap out the Starlances for something else.
We'd be getting 40 Starcrystals back per airframe for a total of 11,520 Starcrystals and even if we can only get the Starlances back rather than convert the weapons into Starcrystals that's still 576 vehicle scale Starlances we can use for that new tank we designed.
- Location
- Utrecht
We may as well keep the Starcrystals on.
If we keep swapping out the Starcrystals on all our designs we're going to end up with a Hoard of Starcrystals and a worse navy overall.
We make two designs, one with the existing Starlances and Shields added, and another that swaps out starlances. We refit the existing fighters to the first design, but we fabricate mostly the non-exotic version (until we ramp up production on Starcrystals)