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A Different Breed (Warhammer 29K)

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Karugus said:
If you're arguing these things as self-evidently following from 'effectively every Eldar was already a Daemon to their benign deities and after Slaanesh won their souls by right of conquest its a desperate struggle to keep every Eldar from becoming a Daemon of Slaanesh' than yeah- I'm going to dismiss the optimism. If 40k is presented as an easy setting to get a good ending from, it cheapens the setting and the tragedy of the trillions of people supposedly dead to build the setting.
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I never said the ending would be easy, and specifically went out of my way to highlight all of the ways in which I'm not pushing that take, but merely being optimistic about plausible outcomes in which we do succeed in our goals.

Dismiss as you wish. no one is saying you have to feel optimistic. that was more meant as a "don't worry, we aren't going to lose our heads over this and attempt anything drastic" than a "Chipper up old chum. Vaul can be revived."
Karugus said:
Optimism in the face of trillions of deaths, the permanent damaging of reality, the creation of a new major evil, and things getting objectively worse for everyone just feels more insensitive and tone deaf than it does uplifting or encouraging.
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Well I'm sorry my optimism is so offensive, but I'm afraid my involvement in this is more about grand space navies, overcoming terrible forces with brilliant innovation, and political maneuvering, than the grand tragedy of warhammer 40k.
 
The Froggy Ninja said:
I thought the Nids were psykers? Their Synapse Creatures definitely are.

Does that include in the depths of the Black Library or did the Aeldari Gods just figure keeping that shit away from the mortals was probably a good idea, and no everyone's either too dead or too Cegorach to actually do anything with it?

Does he have friendly fire for that? If he did happen to come across a God or God-Construct that he was willing to ally with, would he still burn them regardless of intent?
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Original Lore was that nid psychic stuff was explicitly not connected to the Warp at all, with the Zoanthrope as the sole exception because that's what they spat out from playing with Eldar DNA. If Geedubs has decided to change that, I am disappointed because it reduces their alien-ness that is the entire point of the faction.


The Aeldari learned Some of Godsmithing, just because you can't not when spending a bunch of time around the Old Ones who used it all the time, but if any of that lore survives now it's somewhere in the depths of the Black Library and good luck actually finding it.

He's very much mastered his abilities, so yes he can dial the effects down to "basically nothing" or up to "Whoops, did I just delete one of your Exalted by poking them?"... At least when he's had time to shake off the rust from being, well, dead.
 
My two cents is regarding the Vaul debate is that he's been consumed utterly, with zero possibility of revival. Any attempts to revive him will result in failure at best and total disaster at worst.

All that being said, I can't honestly say that Vaul is completely dead, at least in a metaphorical sense. The deity himself, sure, but the lessons he taught, the arts he inspired, his legacy in general, those survive him, and will continue to do so so long as the Vulkhari continue to stand against the darkness. So long as Vaul's legacy remains intact, he is not truly dead, and Slaanesh has not fully won.

Admittedly, this is, at best, a small victory in the grand scheme of things. The wounds to the souls of the Eldar alone are far too great for it to be otherwise. Still, when you're going up against a foe as mighty as the Four in a setting as fucked up as 40k, you've got to appreciate the small victories. It's too easy to give into despair if you don't.
 
Mechanis said:
Most critical he is The Anathema: an impossibility, a paradox: a Pariah whose negative-soul is so impossibly strong it has looped back to present as a normal Psyker of godlike strength, but whose very touch is utterly in opposition to the Gods of the Immaterium.
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Everyone in this thread seems to be treating this as a stack underflow type thing, but honestly this feels more like a quasar or even lightning rod type situation. My theory is that Emps is constantly drawing in warpstuff, and that concentration of decomposing immaterial creates a halo of raw power around him that can in turn be used for psykery.
 
Mechanis said:
Original Lore was that nid psychic stuff was explicitly not connected to the Warp at all, with the Zoanthrope as the sole exception because that's what they spat out from playing with Eldar DNA. If Geedubs has decided to change that, I am disappointed because it reduces their alien-ness that is the entire point of the faction.
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Mechanically Tyranids use psychic powers the same as everyone else but lore-wise no one really knows and it's just wild mass guessing about why they cause the Shadow in the Warp.
 
So... technically, the Craftworld leaders could all theoretically be classified as rebelling Deva, who took their followers with them.

And, even more theoretically... it should be possible to rob the usurper of one of their domains.

Crackpot theory: the Farseer Mehlendri Silversoul, who ignited the first infinity circuit, became the first of a soul gestalt that became the God Ynnead.
The infinity circuit is a place where the Chaos gods can't reach, so it's probably the only place such a soul-gestalt/nascent deity could possibly be nurtured without corruption.
 
Ynnead was theorized to be gestating within the infinity circuits of the Craftworlds, yes, with the original estimate of when he would come to fruition requiring the souls of every single Asuryani to ignite.
 
Since all Eldar are Devas of their Pantheon, or were, and technically Slaanesh is currently the Pantheon, and Exalted can overthrow/kill their linked gods...
Depending on how things work we may be able to logic things into being able to overthrow The Prince.
This is probably stupid but I'm putting out there anyway in case it isn't.
 
dgr11897 said:
Since all Eldar are Devas of their Pantheon, or were, and technically Slaanesh is currently the Pantheon, and Exalted can overthrow/kill their linked gods...
Depending on how things work we may be able to logic things into being able to overthrow The Prince.
This is probably stupid but I'm putting out there anyway in case it isn't.
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It's theoretically possible.

But, last time an exalted tried that, Khorne yeeted Skarbrand without getting off the toilet.
According to the infopost, Slaanesh can contest the other three. We're not going to manage to kill Slaanesh.

Overthrowing is a lot more possible, and Mechanis has even mentioned a few ways we could (Blackstone fortresses meet Phoenix Court)
 
Mechanis said:
The Aeldari learned Some of Godsmithing, just because you can't not when spending a bunch of time around the Old Ones who used it all the time, but if any of that lore survives now it's somewhere in the depths of the Black Library and good luck actually finding it.
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I mean, with what we have learned IC about the eldary soul and how it connected to their gods.
I think we have at least IC now a very good reason to try and find said information that did survive.
 
Karugus said:
millions of loved ones at least- eaten and eternally damned because their souls were plugged into the Eldar gods
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Just to note, this isn't true. The Haemunculi in the future are apparently fully capable of extracting the souls of Pre-Fall Eldar from Slaneesh's gullet and resurrecting them, just as they are for Post-Fall Eldar. They just don't as it's expensive and no one is interested to pay them to do so.
 
Alratan said:
Just to note, this isn't true. The Haemunculi in the future are apparently fully capable of extracting the souls of Pre-Fall Eldar from Slaneesh's gullet and resurrecting them, just as they are for Post-Fall Eldar. They just don't as it's expensive and no one is interested to pay them to do so.
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... How, I am reminded we may need to make a few deals or try to steal some Haemunculi from the dark city because holy fuck.
 
Alratan said:
Just to note, this isn't true. The Haemunculi in the future are apparently fully capable of extracting the souls of Pre-Fall Eldar from Slaneesh's gullet and resurrecting them, just as they are for Post-Fall Eldar. They just don't as it's expensive and no one is interested to pay them to do so.
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So what you're telling me is that we need to crack open enough Haemunculi lootboxes to fix our pop growth?
 
Alratan said:
Just to note, this isn't true. The Haemunculi in the future are apparently fully capable of extracting the souls of Pre-Fall Eldar from Slaneesh's gullet and resurrecting them, just as they are for Post-Fall Eldar. They just don't as it's expensive and no one is interested to pay them to do so.
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Are the Pre-Fall Eldar, like, sane? I feel like being stuck in the stomach of a chaos god for more than 10k years would be fairly traumatic.
 
MajorCringe said:
Are the Pre-Fall Eldar, like, sane? I feel like being stuck in the stomach of a chaos god for more than 10k years would be fairly traumatic.
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Funny Question. For One, those ELdar have not been in there for 10.000 years Realtime, more like 15 years. On the other lubed Tentacle, the Warp plays silly buggers with Time, so they could have been stuck in there for Trillions of Years already. I say you can toss a 666 Sided Coin and see which flavor of Mad you get. Maybe they are so mad, that they flipped back to being sane and very, very boring.
 
Given the whole "Eldar are Deva" surprising resilience of eldar souls makes fair bit of sense, but resurrections of millenia old eldar straight from Slaaneshi gullet might end up being yet another thing tossed out of this quest's canon.
 
Prospalz said:
Given the whole "Eldar are Deva" surprising resilience of eldar souls makes fair bit of sense, but resurrections of millenia old eldar straight from Slaaneshi gullet might end up being yet another thing tossed out of this quest's canon.
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I think the general concept of can get souls back from Slannesh is going to get kicked.
Because the high end is that the eldar can use the same thing scaled up to get all their gods back.
 
Yeah. Resurrections of freshly dead - or not so freshly, if relevant soul-preserving contingencies and preparations are made - that's one thing.

"Eaten by Slaanesh" is another.
 
Prospalz said:
Yeah. Resurrections of freshly dead - or not so freshly, if relevant soul-preserving contingencies and preparations are made - that's one thing.

"Eaten by Slaanesh" is another.
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Might be a "yet to be digested by Slaanesh" souls, or "Slaanesh played with the food on this one fucking leg it-" souls.
 
Soulstones might actually become a piece of wargear, rather than a phylactery.

When an eldar is going into danger, they take a soul stone, so their soul doesn't get eaten.
The soulstone gets recovered and the body gets "resleeved".

But in situations without danger, the soulstone wouldn't be needed.
 
Prospalz said:
Eldar who started the infinite circuit project don't want to resleeve people; they really don't like the Wraithguard/Lord techline, and use it only because of raw necessity. All traditional craftworlds, basically.

We - or other divergent communities - might, tho. But that means not contributing to the Ynnead project.
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Canonically at least, the infinity circuit as an artificial afterlife does not happen until M33.

Before that, the souls of the eldar were just stored in soulstones to keep them from Slaanesh.

I don't think there's a concrete idea of creating a new God to kill Slaanesh, or usurp his control over the afterlife.

Someone will probably come up with it during the upcoming conclave though.
 
Prospalz said:
Yeah. Resurrections of freshly dead - or not so freshly, if relevant soul-preserving contingencies and preparations are made - that's one thing.

"Eaten by Slaanesh" is another.
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Canon dark Eldar get eaten by Slaneesh if they die, the Haemonuculi just retrieve them to resurrect them, although the standard method requires a biological sample to regrow their body from, it doesn't seem absolutely required.

This is a core part of their strategy, that they don't die when they're killed.

Haemunculi go to extra special lengths to prevent anyone else getting their hands on their souls at all (for fear of their rivals rather than Slaneesh), but regular Dark Eldar don't have those protections. They just have to suffer in Slaneesh's stomach until/unless someone bothers to pay for them to be recovered.

This is one of the Dark Eldar's defining traits. It's one of the reasons they raid for victims so intently, as the 'fuel' for extracting a soul from Slaneesh is the agony of tortured sacrifices.

I don't see why they would lose this core capability. It's one of the Haemunculi's big claim to fame, the justification for their approach.
 
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Writing about Slaanesh is ... yuck. Infinite perversion.

Slaanesh probably allows the Haemunculi to do soul extractions because it's not a net loss (dark eldar feed her anyway, whether she eats their souls or not), and she probably likes it too.
Emetophilia? Is that a thing? Apparently yes.

Time for some brain bleach.
 
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