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A Different Breed (Warhammer 29K)

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vsh said:
Ok try it out: link.
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One squad refit costs:
Add 10 Wraithweave Brigantine Armor for 20 EP
Add 5 Flamer Pistol for 5 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes
Total 25 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad

One squad refit costs:
Add 10 Wraithweave Brigantine Armor for 20 EP
Add 5 Flamer Pistol for 5 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes
Total 25 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad
Total cost to refit across 65 squads: 1625 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad

Looks good to me.

And for the Militia Fire squads:
One squad refit costs:
Add 10 Wraithweave Brigantine Armor for 20 EP
Add 7 Needler Rifle for 42 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes
Total 62 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad

(seems to have just crashed ...)
-> squads 201 = 12 462EP to cover all of them
Edit:
One squad refit costs:
Add 10 Wraithweave Brigantine Armor for 20 EP
Add 7 Needler Rifle for 42 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes
Total 62 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad
Total cost to refit across 201 squads: 12462 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad

Vs just the armor:
One squad refit costs:
Add 10 Wraithweave Brigantine Armor for 20 EP
Total 20 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad

One squad refit costs:
Add 10 Wraithweave Brigantine Armor for 20 EP
Total 20 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad
Total cost to refit across 201 squads: 4020 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad

The weapon update adds a lot of extra EP cost if done accross all the militia line infantry for weapons that we are likely to never use again when we get plasma.
 
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Skjadir said:
(seems to have just crashed ...)
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Debugging on it live.

I'm thinking for assault squad give squad leader a void guard armor and starblaster pistol. It costs just a bit more but gives them a lot more oomph for dealing with enemy champions.


Code: 
One squad refit costs:
    Add 9 Wraithweave Brigantine Armor for 18 EP
    Add 1 Void Guard Warsuit for 6 EP
    Add 5 Flamer Pistol for 5 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes
    Add 1 Starbalster Pistol for 4 EP, 1 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes
Total 33 EP, 1 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad
Total cost to refit across 65 squads: 2145 EP, 65 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad

As for line infantry, it's going to be more tricky. I think we should settle for only rearming half of them this turn, starting with ones on the defense of the craftworld.
 
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vsh said:
I'm thinking for assault squad give squad leader a void guard armor and starcarver pistol. It costs just a bit more but gives them a lot more oomph for dealing with enemy champions.
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Big don't from me.

Until they get heavy power armor any exotic weapons are wasted on them, way too easy to die and none of the skill to make up for the lack of protection.

Overall this turn is pretty much a print as much Brigantine Armor as we can as the retrofit happens over detachments not with squads.
 
So, we'll be using brigandines for the main bulk of our armies for now, what about our weapons? Exotics are probably off the table unless we reserve them only for the folks getting the best armour, so maybe needlers and spikers for now? Those are pretty cheap and effective weaponry considering the base statlines of a shuriken weapon (and spikers are somewhat stronger than that).
 
BigFungus26 said:
So, we'll be using brigandines for the main bulk of our armies for now, what about our weapons? Exotics are probably off the table unless we reserve them only for the folks getting the best armour, so maybe needlers and spikers for now? Those are pretty cheap and effective weaponry considering the base statlines of a shuriken weapon (and spikers are somewhat stronger than that).
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Weapon upgrade gets stuffed for like the next turn or two.
Getting everyone in at least the brigantine takes close ~15k EP.


By the time we are done with the armor / some vehicle updates we have plasma weapons unlocked, but thinking back we can't use them because people went how needs safety our guys all have will be in semi/full power armor.

At this point, not sure if they will ever get a weapon upgrade due to that.
Or at best it will be a very delayed one.
 
There are some troops in the militia line detachments that have already better weapons:
  • 3 Screamer Grenade Launchers
  • 1 Starblaster Carbine
  • 8 Starblaster Rifles
  • 1 Fatesplitter Carbine
  • 2 Fatecaster Rifles
Should we give those 15 VPA?
 
sunrise said:
There are some troops in the militia line detachments that have already better weapons:
  • 3 Screamer Grenade Launchers
  • 1 Starblaster Carbine
  • 8 Starblaster Rifles
  • 1 Fatesplitter Carbine
  • 2 Fatecaster Rifles
Should we give those 15 VPA?
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Its the elite troops and I think that is an option.

So breaking down the next update to just the militia assault detachments, mostly as is, they are the most fucked up detachment we have.

One squad refit costs:
Militia fire squad
One squad refit costs:
Add 10 Void Guard Warsuit for 60 EP
Total 60 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad
Total cost to refit across 20 squads: 1200 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad

One Militia squad refit costs:
Add 10 Wraithweave Brigantine Armor for 20 EP
Add 5 Flamer Pistol for 5 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes
Total 25 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad
Total cost to refit across 40 squads: 1000 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad

Militia Jetbikers:
One squad refit costs:
Add 8 Wraithweave Brigantine Armor for 16 EP
Add 8 Needler Carbine for 32 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes
Total 48 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad
Total cost to refit across 40 squads: 1920 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad

One squad refit costs:
Add 6 Void Guard Warsuit for 36 EP
Total 36 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad
Total cost to refit across 20 squads: 720 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad

One squad refit costs:
Add 6 Void Guard Warsuit for 36 EP
Total 36 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad
Total cost to refit across 20 squads: 720 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad
-> 5560 EP total

VGA for the fire squads in case we want to also include plasma weapon in later refits, but as is i would just go with Brigantine, leave them as is and start with the retrofits for our militia line infantry.
 
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Skjadir said:
Militia Jetbikers:
One squad refit costs:
Add 8 Wraithweave Brigantine Armor for 16 EP
Add 8 Needler Carbine for 32 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes
Total 48 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad
Total cost to refit across 40 squads: 1920 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad
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@Mechanis can we refit heavy weapon on a jetbike? Is it extra cost compared to just weapon EP?

Skjadir said:
Big don't from me.
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Starblaster pistols are pretty cheap, 4 EP (cheaper than needle rifle) and 1 Starcrystal each, we can spare 65 crystals.
 
vsh said:
@Mechanis can we refit heavy weapon on a jetbike? Is it extra cost compared to just weapon EP?


Starblaster pistols are pretty cheap, 4 EP (cheaper than needle rifle) and 1 Starcrystal each, we can spare 65 crystals.
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That weapon is for the person riding on the jetbike, not the jetbike itself.

And fuck using exotic weapons because we can "spare" them on units that get overrun the moment something serious shows up.

Edit: Baseline cost for militia assault and line detchments this is the bare basics for me that need to be done.
3240 EP Elites into VGA

Militia jetbikes into brigantine: 1440EP

Militia fire squads into Brigantine:1900 EP

Militia Assault squads into Brigantine + handflamer:1000EP

3240+144+1900+1000=7580 for the basics

leaves 2420 for other stuff likely some very limited weapon upgrades or using the EP producing some more Armors for other detachments.
 
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Skjadir said:
That weapon is for the person riding on the jetbike, not the jetbike itself.
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I get it, I'm asking if we can give this person a Heavy Weapon and not a carbine, or refit a heavy weapon on a jetbike without making a new vehicle design.

Order of refits for me:
Militia squads in all the unassigned warhosts in new armor and maybe new arms
Elites squads in unassigned warhosts in new armor
Keep some EP for StarAnvils and maybe a couple cheaper vehicles.

Just brigantines across all undeployed militia will be 5480 EP total. Can spend about 2.5k on Void Guard suits for elites and new weapons for militia to leave enough EP for a couple of StarAnvils.
Code: 
Militia Fire
One squad refit costs:
    Add 10 Wraithweave Brigantine Armor for 20 EP
Total 20 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad
Total cost to refit across 140 squads: 2800 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad

Militia Assualt
One squad refit costs:
    Add 10 Wraithweave Brigantine Armor for 20 EP
Total 20 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad
Total cost to refit across 38 squads: 760 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad

Militia Marine
One squad refit costs:
    Add 8 Wraithweave Brigantine Armor for 16 EP
Total 16 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad
Total cost to refit across 10 squads: 160 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad

Militia Jetbike
One squad refit costs:
    Add 8 Wraithweave Brigantine Armor for 16 EP
Total 16 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad
Total cost to refit across 110 squads: 1760 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad
 
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We can put 3 Militia and 3 Heavy Militia Warhosts in a Brigantine/Void Guard mix for 5604 EP according to the tool. Melee and exotic weapon using squads getting Void Guard, while the ubiquitous Militia Line squads get Brigantine. Void Guard should be the bare minimum for melee troops, and an elite exotic weapon user should be in something heavier than Brigantine, and taking the exotic weapon away and replacing it with a Spike/Needler Carbine and Brigantine costs the same in EP as just giving them Void Guard Armor. Could even start on rolling out their new weapons. Or vehicles. Haven't done the math for that. Or just up armor another warhost or 3.
Honestly, we should be very careful about what we give Militia Line Squads at the present moment. There's a lot of them in each Warhost. Even the 2 EP Brigandine added up to quite a lot.

EDIT: I forgot about the Jetbikes. That's another 1344 for Brigantines for just these 6 Warhosts...
 
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Nemonole said:
EDIT: I forgot about the Jetbikes. That's another 1344 for Brigantines for just these 6 Warhosts...
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Weapon updates are pretty much out of question if we want to cover the militia assault and line detachments, and you forgot the ~20 or so detachments that likely will get turned into active warhosts next turn, made up mostly of the militia line and assault detachments.

Edit.
All the EP for the retro fits come currently from the Forge actions and I have my doubt that we will use them for more than 2 turns on just this. So super expensive retrofits only hit small parts of our army and leave the rest in an awful state.
 
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BigFungus26 said:
VGA
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I am unsure about the shift from Medium to Heavy, as that fairly dramatically changes the size and profile of the armor, I suspect.

The point is that just going from semi-powered to powered could be leveraged into significant straight improvement, without any significant changes to the best use cases or the paradigm overall; going heavy is a significant of a divergence. There was about 1 EP difference for Powered + some additional not super expensive systems, IIRC?

Although the idea of going all-heavy wasn't that unpopular some weeks ago, so maybe with suits that cost 8 EP instead of 23, it could be done.
 
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Added a "refit warhost" app where it's a lot easier to refit multiple squad types at once to check on a total costs. It get's pretty buggy when you try to refit a lot of squads, gotta click carefully.

E.g. this is me putting all militia in brigantine and all elites in void guard:

Code: 
One Guardian Militia Assault Squad refit costs:
    Add 10 Wraithweave Brigantine Armor for 20 EP
Total 20 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad
38 Guardian Militia Assault Squad for 760 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes
One Guardian Militia Fire Squad refit costs:
    Add 10 Wraithweave Brigantine Armor for 20 EP
Total 20 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad
140 Guardian Militia Fire Squad for 2800 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes
One Guardian Militia Marine Squad refit costs:
    Add 8 Wraithweave Brigantine Armor for 16 EP
Total 16 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad
8 Guardian Militia Marine Squad for 128 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes
One Hearthguard Brightstar Squad refit costs:
    Add 6 Void Guard Warsuit for 36 EP
Total 36 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad
77 Hearthguard Brightstar Squad for 2772 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes
One Hearthguard Fatebreaker Squad refit costs:
    Add 6 Void Guard Warsuit for 36 EP
Total 36 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad
12 Hearthguard Fatebreaker Squad for 432 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes
One Hearthguard Ironbreaker Squad refit costs:
    Add 6 Void Guard Warsuit for 36 EP
Total 36 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad
7 Hearthguard Ironbreaker Squad for 252 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes
One Hearthguard Jetbiker Squad refit costs:
    Add 6 Void Guard Warsuit for 36 EP
Total 36 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad
14 Hearthguard Jetbiker Squad for 504 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes
One Hearthguard Veteran Squad refit costs:
    Add 6 Void Guard Warsuit for 36 EP
Total 36 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad
74 Hearthguard Veteran Squad for 2664 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes
One Militia Jetbiker Squad refit costs:
    Add 8 Wraithweave Brigantine Armor for 16 EP
Total 16 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad
110 Militia Jetbiker Squad for 1760 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes
One Warcasting Circle refit costs:
    Add 6 Ithilmar Assault Suit for 138 EP
Total 138 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad
3 Warcasting Circle for 414 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes
Total cost to refit across 483 squads: 12486 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes

It doesn't play nice with attached units yet, so a few psykers got away. On that note, putting all our psykers in ithilmar is going to be pretty cheap and will save us indispensable hero units and leadership.
 
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vsh said:
Added a "refit warhost" app where it's a lot easier to refit multiple squad types at once to check on a total costs. It get's pretty buggy when you try to refit a lot of squads, gotta click carefully.

E.g. this is me putting all militia in brigantine and all elites in void guard:

Code: 
One Guardian Militia Assault Squad refit costs:
    Add 10 Wraithweave Brigantine Armor for 20 EP
Total 20 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad
38 Guardian Militia Assault Squad for 760 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes
One Guardian Militia Fire Squad refit costs:
    Add 10 Wraithweave Brigantine Armor for 20 EP
Total 20 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad
140 Guardian Militia Fire Squad for 2800 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes
One Guardian Militia Marine Squad refit costs:
    Add 8 Wraithweave Brigantine Armor for 16 EP
Total 16 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad
8 Guardian Militia Marine Squad for 128 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes
One Hearthguard Brightstar Squad refit costs:
    Add 6 Void Guard Warsuit for 36 EP
Total 36 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad
77 Hearthguard Brightstar Squad for 2772 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes
One Hearthguard Fatebreaker Squad refit costs:
    Add 6 Void Guard Warsuit for 36 EP
Total 36 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad
12 Hearthguard Fatebreaker Squad for 432 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes
One Hearthguard Ironbreaker Squad refit costs:
    Add 6 Void Guard Warsuit for 36 EP
Total 36 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad
7 Hearthguard Ironbreaker Squad for 252 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes
One Hearthguard Jetbiker Squad refit costs:
    Add 6 Void Guard Warsuit for 36 EP
Total 36 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad
14 Hearthguard Jetbiker Squad for 504 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes
One Hearthguard Veteran Squad refit costs:
    Add 6 Void Guard Warsuit for 36 EP
Total 36 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad
74 Hearthguard Veteran Squad for 2664 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes
One Militia Jetbiker Squad refit costs:
    Add 8 Wraithweave Brigantine Armor for 16 EP
Total 16 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad
110 Militia Jetbiker Squad for 1760 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes
One Warcasting Circle refit costs:
    Add 6 Ithilmar Assault Suit for 138 EP
Total 138 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes per squad
3 Warcasting Circle for 414 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes
Total cost to refit across 483 squads: 12486 EP, 0 Starcrystals, 0 Psy-Scopes

It doesn't play nice with attached units yet, so a few psykers got away. On that note, putting all our psykers and headquarters in ithilmar is going to be pretty cheap and will save us indispensable hero units and leadership.
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I seriously wonder what would someone who has no idea what a quest,SV or 40k think if they stumble upon these apps ?
 
So I think we shouldn't increase the weight of void guard for the reason that: If something catastrophic happens to it, the wearer can still move and won't have to abandon it or wait for a crane to come get them. It's just barely within the ability of a wearer to operate without power assist.
 
Professor Vesca said:
So I think we shouldn't increase the weight of void guard for the reason that: If something catastrophic happens to it, the wearer can still move and won't have to abandon it or wait for a crane to come get them. It's just barely within the ability of a wearer to operate without power assist.
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I think that fully powered medium armour is probably the way to go, but I think it's unlikely that much will be able to shut down our (basically magical) armour without also being able to kill the wearer.
 
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