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A Different Breed (Warhammer 29K)

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Turn 2: Vehicle vote 2 & Emissary
  • Voting
    • Adhoc vote count started by Mechanis on Jul 3, 2024 at 11:44 PM, finished with 190 posts and 35 votes.
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    Actual update sometime tomorrow, but it'll be allocating your equipment production so you might as well start arguing about it now.
     
  • Voting
    • Mechanis said:
    Y̶̙̌̍̅̄͝ȍ̶͙͚̍̀̈́u̷̠̔̏̎̈́̕ ̵̧̱̭̰̈̊̄̂̎͜͝A̸̻̟̾̌̅r̴̮̻͍̖̤͎̋͑̉̓͠ě̷̯̝͋͒͘ ̶̜̘̻͋̽̓̆̈́D̴̨̛̠̥̯͚͔̂͊͝͝ĕ̵̯̻̗͔n̶̥͓̲͗̉͑i̷̢͓͍̯̩̥͂͛̍̓͝e̵̡̥̒̓̀̉ͅd̸̺̜̪̐̌̊̒̈́
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    Huh, I completely missed this in the seer results threadmark, wonder who that could-

    Mechanis said:
    a Seerstone—a self-aware repository of warp-lore and potent scrying tool in one. Ensconced in an appropriate facility, this relic construct will provide aid in any Warpcraft research, as well as helping to train Psyker powers for use.
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    ...oh.

    ...

    Soooo, who wants to begin the argument over our equipment? :V
     
    Not sure where to start with the equipment budget, Its 10,000 EP right?

    Not even sure where to start, Spikes I guess? We did just give all our vehicle crews Spike carbines.
     
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    frostgiant said:
    Not sure where to start with the equipment budget, Its 10,000 EP right?

    Not even sure where to start.
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    Our starting point is easy.

    *First* we should produce enough guns and armor to refit all of our existing militia and infantry on the craftworld. This needs to happen at minimum.

    After thats done we should probably consider producing vehicles, arms, and armor for future refits of infantry, and I am not sure if we need to use EP for ship production? But once our infantry is sorted we should either consider that or we should consider dumping the rest into more infantry kit to give to our soldiers as they rotate back to the craftworld.
     
    Professor Vesca said:
    Our starting point is easy.

    *First* we should produce enough guns and armor to refit all of our existing militia and infantry on the craftworld. This needs to happen at minimum.

    After thats done we should probably consider producing vehicles, arms, and armor for future refits of infantry, and I am not sure if we need to use EP for ship production? But once our infantry is sorted we should either consider that or we should consider dumping the rest into more infantry kit to give to our soldiers as they rotate back to the craftworld.
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    Not sure if this is were we do it, But we might want to create a small armour fleet, At least just a superheavy to have the anti-titan ready if need be. 1 Staranvil and a group of 4 or 6 Forgehammers?
     
    frostgiant said:
    Not sure if this is were we do it, But we might want to create a small armour fleet, At least just a superheavy to have the anti-titan ready if need be. 1 Staranvil and a group of 4 or 6 Forgehammers?
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    The exotics from the superheavy will need to come from the farms or @Mechanis The recycling of guns? Will we need to expend AP recovering exotic components from weapons we take off of our ships? But yeah, we should probably pop out at least one superheavy, we should also consider popping out fast attack and troop transport options.
     
    Professor Vesca said:
    The exotics from the superheavy will need to come from the farms or @Mechanis The recycling of guns? Will we need to expend AP recovering exotic components from weapons we take off of our ships? But yeah, we should probably pop out at least one superheavy, we should also consider popping out fast attack and troop transport options.
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    I'd actually argue and say that we should (if possible) grab a 2nd superheavy as a backup or to support the 1st one, but I'd be fine with building just one for now

    Also, next turn, we should REALLY consider building some foundries for our baseline equipment (void-guard, starblaster rifle and some vehicles maybe?) So we at least have the baselines covered and can focus our EP on more advanced loot.
     
    Professor Vesca said:
    The exotics from the superheavy will need to come from the farms or @Mechanis The recycling of guns? Will we need to expend AP recovering exotic components from weapons we take off of our ships? But yeah, we should probably pop out at least one superheavy, we should also consider popping out fast attack and troop transport options.
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    From the turn 2 post it looks like we have a bank of 6348 starcrystals, and 1571 Fatebender scopes. Not certain what the final price tag of the Staranvil was, but we probably have enough for at least 1 or 2. EP cost should be around 800.

    EDIT: Quick napkin math says that 1 Brightsword squad is 232EP+22 starcrystals. And then an Additional 195 for the Mirage . So 427 Per Squad and transport. The militia Line and militia Assault detachments seem to run between 3- 5 Squads... I think? Numbers are starting to make my head swim.
     
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    frostgiant said:
    From the turn 2 post it looks like we have a bank of 6348 starcrystals, and 1571 Fatebender scopes. Not certain what the final price tag of the Staranvil was, but we probably have enough for at least 1 or 2. EP cost should be around 800.
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    Here's the price tags for the Starhammer and Anvil (these don't include the price of crew, hang on)

    -[X] Starhammer Crew
    --[X] 4x Wraithweave Brigandine (8)
    --[X] 4x Spike Carbine (16)
    -[X] StarAnvil Crew
    --[X] 6x Wraithweave Brigandine (12)
    --[X] 6x Spike carbine (24)

    Starhammer: 232EP + 28SC (21.5 per VAP / 22 if rounded up)

    Star Anvil: 839EP + 78SC + 6 Scopes (5.95 per VAP / 6 per VAP rounded up)

    We we won't be needing 12 Star Anvils this production cycle so we'll just say that we make one or two for now (with the second being for redundancy and for support)

    The hammers are gonna be a bit iffy since we also need to make sure that a few detachments worth of weapons and armour is also ready for this turn, so maybe 4 or 6 tanks for now? At least enough for when we equip the heavy detachments.

    Our biggest EP sink is gonna be infantry, the armour, the weapons, the mirage transports, etc, and those are gonna add up quickly (which is why I wanna try and build foundries for those ASAP)
     
    A Brightsword squad +Mirage is 427 and 22 crystals per, A forgefire squad is 588 with Heavy flamers, 636 With Heavy Needlers or 612 with a half and half of both, With 195 on top of that for a mirage.

    On average, If we don't touch the vehicles or bikes, most detachments look to be about 3 squads of foot. The Line detachment is three sqauds of regular foot, The assault detachment is 1 squad normal, two squads assault.

    Does anyone remember the EP cost that was settled on For the Razorwind and its drivers? the quick reference says 50, but I'm not sure if that with crew gear.

    As is, Numbers are making my eyes blur, And I am ready to Buy 10 squads of Brightsword gear(4270) , 4 groups of Forgefire gear (2544), Swear, Pass out and poor the rest of the budget into Tanks.
     
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    BigFungus26 said:
    Also, next turn, we should REALLY consider building some foundries for our baseline equipment (void-guard, starblaster rifle and some vehicles maybe?) So we at least have the baselines covered and can focus our EP on more advanced loot.
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    Highest priority for a foundry is the Mirages, I'd say. We are going to need an absolutely huge number of those, there's no practical ability to do a partial rollout. With the infantry we can at least throw them into brigantine or void armor before going full ithilmar, but we have no intermediate cheaper transport; it's a Mirage or nothing. And considering the gains in protection and mobility, every infantry unit we have desperately wants one, regardless of the state of their weapons and armor.
     
    DarkLight140 said:
    Highest priority for a foundry is the Mirages, I'd say. We are going to need an absolutely huge number of those, there's no practical ability to do a partial rollout. With the infantry we can at least throw them into brigantine or void armor before going full ithilmar, but we have no intermediate cheaper transport; it's a Mirage or nothing. And considering the gains in protection and mobility, every infantry unit we have desperately wants one, regardless of the state of their weapons and armor.
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    I would argue the highest priority for a foundry should be void guard armour. It's not absurdly cheap like brigadier are, and we are going to be using it as our mainline armour for a long time coming.

    After that, I agree that the mirage is probably the next most important, possibly followed by needlers rifles and spike carbine's given how we are arming our crews, but that is to far in the priority list to say anything.

    Looking at the what we have, I reaaaally want monofiliment weaponry. Not only are they a weapon type that future Eldar use for both AOE and Indirect fire notable holes in our arsenal, monofiliment wires are just a really cool weapon and feel like they can go places.
     
    DarkLight140 said:
    Highest priority for a foundry is the Mirages, I'd say. We are going to need an absolutely huge number of those, there's no practical ability to do a partial rollout. With the infantry we can at least throw them into brigantine or void armor before going full ithilmar, but we have no intermediate cheaper transport; it's a Mirage or nothing. And considering the gains in protection and mobility, every infantry unit we have desperately wants one, regardless of the state of their weapons and armor.
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    Yeah I'm thinking (from first to last priority) VGA foundry (we NEED more suits and the ability to constantly produce them is gonna be SUPER IMPORTANT), a Mirage forge and then a weapon foundry to act as our baseline weapon (starblaster rifle maybe?)

    Mechanis said:
    [ ] Weapon Forge (Write-in type) (2 points each)
    [ ] Armor Foundry (Write-in type) (2 points each)
    [ ] Vehicle Foundry (Write-in type, may not be Superheavy) (3 points each)
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    If we wanted to grab both a VGA and Ithilmar foundry + a starblaster foundry, that'd cost about 6 AP to set up next turn (at the minimum), assuming production is 50% as efficient as a BAP (280EP worth of production) this should give us about 46-47 suits of VGA and 12 suits of Ithilmar a turn.

    But even with that pessimistic estimation, that's still a couple squads worth of Brightswords.
     
    We aren't going to do much foundry building next turn or the coming turns, almost all of our free AP will go into the Ship repairs/retrofits because that is the big one.

    For the 10K EP ?
    Pretty much no vehicles in that one, way too expensive even the Mirage.

    For my own plan when it comes to EP usage:
    Skjadir said:
    Turning that into an equipment list to cover most of our Militia squads:
    2028 +1368 + 774=4170 Brigantine
    470 Flamers

    -> Total EP 9280 (there was a type in the total EP amount for the Militia Assault unit) spend
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    And then use the rest of the EP with 360 more Brigantine as we will need all of it.
     
    BigFungus26 said:
    Yeah I'm thinking (from first to last priority) VGA foundry (we NEED more suits and the ability to constantly produce them is gonna be SUPER IMPORTANT), a Mirage forge and then a weapon foundry to act as our baseline weapon (starblaster rifle maybe?)
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    This may be me not reading/missing an info post, but do we know if exotic equipment made by a foundry/Forge uses our per turn exotic income? Like if we build a foundry and it builds 300 star pistols would that take 300 starcrystals from our stockpile/income?
     
    MajorCringe said:
    This may be me not reading/missing an info post, but do we know if exotic equipment made by a foundry/Forge uses our per turn exotic income? Like if we build a foundry and it builds 300 star pistols would that take 300 starcrystals from our stockpile/income?
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    Uuuuh I'm not sure, I don't think we got a WOG about that but if I had to guess, it probably just takes a small sum of crystals from our income per turn.
     
    MajorCringe said:
    This may be me not reading/missing an info post, but do we know if exotic equipment made by a foundry/Forge uses our per turn exotic income? Like if we build a foundry and it builds 300 star pistols would that take 300 starcrystals from our stockpile/income?
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    Yes, they do, all exotic equipment needs them.
    The foundries won't be able to create them, take a look at the infrastructure cost to get even a small amount of exotics.


    BigFungus26 said:
    Uuuuh I'm not sure, I don't think we got a WOG about that but if I had to guess, it probably just takes a small sum of crystals from our income per turn.
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    ... ah yes the strategic resources that hard limits the exotics of a given weapon type we can build isn't going to be an utter pain for our logistic.
     
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    Star Anvil: 839EP x2

    A militia line detachment uses this gear that should be replaced:

    • 21 Lasrifles
    • 16 Lascarbines
    • 58 Wraithbone Trauma Plates
    • 2 Wraithweave Voidsuits
    • 18 Wraithbone Hardsuits
    So 78 Brigandine at 2 each = 156
    and 37 ranged weapons 25 Needler Rifle at 6 each =150 + 12 Spike Rifles at 5 each = 60
    The Lasriflesgo to the vehicle crews using pistols or no weapon at this time
    For a total per detachment 156+150+60 = 366 EP per detachment

    That should be enough to refit 22 Line detachments(after building 2 Star Anvils)

    If we want to give the 6 veterans(armed with two Starblaster Rifles, two Fatecaster Rifles, and either two Starblaster Carbines or Fatesplitter Carbines) and 6 elites(armed with Starblaster rifles/carbines) VPA instead it adds 48 EP per detachment allowing us to refit 20 detachments
     
    frostgiant said:
    I would argue the highest priority for a foundry should be void guard armour. It's not absurdly cheap like brigadier are, and we are going to be using it as our mainline armour for a long time coming.
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    I disagree. I think the Void Guard armour is a flawed design that should be fixed to be fully powered at the first opportunity. Making it semi-powered was a mistake we should rectify, not lock in by making a foundry.
     
    Someone did some math on this, let me find it.... There it is! (Thank you for your prior work, Karugus)

    Karugus said:
    252 EP to give every single infantryman in a Militia Line/Assault Detachment VG (456 EP if we give the HG Ithilmar)- 354 for Veteran HQs to get Ithilmar
    360 EP to give every infantry in a Militia Heavy VG (564 EP if the HG get Ithilmar again)- 462 for Veterans only
    270 EP for the Battlecasting detachment (845 EP if the HG+Psykers get Ithilmar- 389 EP if only the Psykers get Ithilmar)- 491 EP for Veterans and Psykers only
    192 EP for Militia Light Support (396 EP for HG to get Ithilmar)- 294 EP for Veterans only
    156 EP for HG Skirmish (462 EP for HG)- 258 EP for Veterans only
    180 EP for HG Line (690 EP for HG)- 282 EP for Veterans only
    144 EP for HG LSupport (552 for HG)- 246 EP for Veterans Only

    x3 Heavy Militia Warhosts
    -1 HG Line, 1 Militia Line, 1 Militia Assault, 1 Militia Heavy, 3 Militia LSupport, 1 Battlecasting
    x3(1,890 EP) or x3(2,825)
    x3 Militia Warhosts
    - 1 Militia Heavy, 1 M.Assault, 2 M.Line, 3 M. LSupport, 1 HG LSupport
    x3(1,836 EP) or x3(2,652)
    x1 Battlecast Host
    -2 HG Skirmish, 2 M.Line, 4 Battlecasting
    x1(1,896 EP) or x1(3,188)
    Total: 13,074 EP or 19,619 EP (Ithilmar for HQ squads and Psykers, not yet feasible)

    120 EP saved per M.Line/M.Heavy (FGuardian brig)-1,680 EP
    80 EP per Battlecasting/M. LSupport- 2,000 EP
    40 EP per Assault- 240 EP
    3,920 EP saved
    Only issuing Guardian Fire Squads Brigantines brings the cost down to 9,154 EP
    EG, we roll out the armor upgrades with an eye for some longevity in a single turn and can focus on vehicles, weaponry, or any detachments that return (like from Meros) the turn after. This still has us making ~1,200 VG suits that will be a serviceable infantry armor for about ~10,000 years give a century or two.

    Yes, I'm not saying it's going to be completely wasted but we're not going to be fielding thousands of vehicle crew for a long while, and trading/stockpiling it is a tertiary concern. Here's the math for how unfeasible a universal VG roll out is, but how feasible it is for melee troops and HG.
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    I snipped the post some, but I think I kept all the text of the maths. We can make the equipment to refit most of our entire organized army (that isn't deployed abroad) in passable body armor this turn if we want. We'd only have around 850 EP or so if we did so for vehicle or weapons refits... But we could just focus on 3 or 4 warhosts to free up some more EP budget?
     
    Alratan said:
    I disagree. I think the Void Guard armour is a flawed design that should be fixed to be fully powered at the first opportunity. Making it semi-powered was a mistake we should rectify, not lock in by making a foundry.
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    For what it's worth, the VGA suit is a good first try on making some less-sucky armour designs, still way better than Brigandine in terms of protection and utility but I do agree that it needs to be refurbished.

    Here'd be my idea of how to make the VGA better now that we know there's a pretty big leap in durability from semi-powered to powered

    -[ ] Heavy
    -[ ] Powered
    -[ ] Holo-field Projector
    -[ ] Autotargeters
    -[ ] Improved Power-Assist (Powered & Semi-powered only) X2
    -[ ] Extra Plating.
    -[ ] Extended Operations Modification.
    -[ ] 2 slots reserved for Conversion Shields.

    EP cost = 8EP (without conversion field)

    With the upgrade, I expect there to be significant improvements to the base warsuit in pretty much every front (durability, mobility, strength etc) and even as it is right now, this upgraded suit is much better.

    Alas, we have to use the VGA Mk1 and Brigandines right now (at least until we've researched conversion fields and gotten a few foundries up and running) but considering the former is the equivalent to IG carapace armour (pretty much one of the best suits of mass-produced armour most Imperials can GET without being an inquisitor, rich or a space marine) and the latter is equivalent to space marine power armour, I'd say we're pretty good at the moment

    (Also Iirc I think Mechanis stated that we can 're-tool' the foundries to make the upgraded suit? If so then we've got nothing to worry about if we build the foundry now)

    But yeah, for the equipment this turn... maybe we go with brigandines and VGA + spikes and needlers for now? I'm not sure, I'll leave the wargear planning to folks who know how to budget.
     
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