would you peg it as a more mid range or short range weapon? It's been ages and I never really did multi-player but I was always pretty aggressive about getting in close to land torpedoes with more reliability. Close range weapons seem like they'd pair nicely but I think part of that's just my own biases with BFG2.

You can definitely use torpedoes at a longer range in BFGA2 if you lead your volley / predict where the ships are going to end up, it takes a bit of effort, but it's manageable (and deeply satisfying getting the volley to hit).
 
If/when we do get a torpedo escort I'd definitely not want to just give it at least one other type of weapon. It doesn't matter if other ships can theoretically cover for it completely, there's no real reason to take that risk when we can just stick a Spike Cannon battery on it for little loss in firepower. If we want more torpedoes just build more of them.
Given the difference between effective range and actual range when it comes to leading a torpedo volley properly, would you peg it as a more mid range or short range weapon? It's been ages and I never really did multi-player but I was always pretty aggressive about getting in close to land torpedoes with more reliability. Close range weapons seem like they'd pair nicely but I think part of that's just my own biases with BFG2. Obviously guided torpedoes are going to have a greater effective range but I'm not assuming we'll get those in time for a first gen torpedo escort.
The Turn 2 update has Krak torpedoes being used for constraining enemy movement at mid-range for what it's worth.
 
CIWB also costs 2 slots compared to the PDFs 1 slot.
So that is part of what one pays for the PDF higher cost, something i think is in general worth it.
I don't think we should categorically discard CIWB still even if PDB are probably a better general purpose choice, the other thing about the 'Dual Purpose 3-5in guns vs. 40mm Bofors' that hasn't been explored so much is that the former's range makes it *a lot* better at engaging targets that are attacking another ship.

You can definitely use torpedoes at a longer range in BFGA2 if you lead your volley / predict where the ships are going to end up, it takes a bit of effort, but it's manageable (and deeply satisfying getting the volley to hit).
I'm well aware, I'm just not sure if we should be planning around torpedo frigates that launch their salvoes at range (and realistically missing more often) or a frigate that wants to get up close and personally to land the torpedoes more often. I'm leaning towards the latter given our current frigate already wants to stay at range and a big part of the torpedo frigate will be keeping enemies away.
The Turn 2 update has Krak torpedoes being used for constraining enemy movement at mid-range for what it's worth.
Yeah, I think its a case of my own tendencies leading me to assume a shorter reliable engagement range than most.
 
I'm well aware, I'm just not sure if we should be planning around torpedo frigates that launch their salvoes at range (and realistically missing more often) or a frigate that wants to get up close and personally to land the torpedoes more often. I'm leaning towards the latter given our current frigate already wants to stay at range and a big part of the torpedo frigate will be keeping enemies away.

I have a feeling that people are drawing too many conclusions from the video game(s) about how things operate for us.

The Holo-Fields for the ships that have them, are an utter nightmare because they are all in near perfect stealth all the time and all of our ships should play into that when we get the refits done.

Still doesn't make going close up and personally are good idea, because for one the return fire comes in a lot fast, and secondly they still aren't capital ships.

Long-Mid range Torpedo salvos are for us very much a wanted thing because they are an easy way to break up formations or force an enemy ship into or off certain paths if they don't want to eat them.
 
Given the difference between effective range and actual range when it comes to leading a torpedo volley properly, would you peg it as a more mid range or short range weapon? It's been ages and I never really did multi-player but I was always pretty aggressive about getting in close to land torpedoes with more reliability. Close range weapons seem like they'd pair nicely but I think part of that's just my own biases with BFG2. Obviously guided torpedoes are going to have a greater effective range but I'm not assuming we'll get those in time for a first gen torpedo escort.

Edit: And on the Carrier front, obviously we should get a dedicated carrier design or two but I think you're right in that we should really be focusing on carriers as a way to run interference and a defensive tool rather than a striking arm of our navy. With a lot of NEP and resources being invested in naval batteries, and a lot of the system slots that would normally be carrying strikecraft carrying more defenses instead we're probably never going to have a dominant strikecraft advantage without compromising our existing advantages and areas of focus.
In multiplayer there are two popular ways to use unguided torpedoes, the first is to fire vast spreads at long/medium range to act as area denial tools and corral enemy fleets into tight groups as that would be their best way to weather the torp spread if they don't have good carrier coverage (another reason why basically any viable fleet needed at least 1 carrier).

The second method is to launch them at point blank range for massive damage (what Karugus describes) since at those ranges the overwhelming majority of the torpedoes will hit and unless you're Eldar or Necrons you have no way to avoid them.

The first method is commonly used by Imperial, Chaos, and Ork players as their cruiser weight ships (cheapest ship with decent torp tube count) are very affordable while Eldar generally can't afford as many ships (the additional speed of Eldar ships make them pretty expensive) with a lot of torp tubes and so use the second method mostly.

That isn't to say that the second method is primarily only used by the Eldar, this tactic is pretty popular with all factions with torps since the large number of cruiser weight ships they can field mean that you have many opportunities to pull off a point blank spread when the brawling begins.

For us however I'd say unless we develop guided torpedoes like what the Tau have our torpedoes are going to mainly be used at close range simply because we aren't likely to have enough ships with lots of torps to saturate a given area to ensure hits.
 
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Torpedos in 40k are interesting, In lore they seem to run in the department of being both a Close range/knife fight range Finisher that lets much smaller ships kidney punch ships from a much larger tonnage if ignored (and similar weight ships just murder other ships of similar or larger sizes). If you ignore a Ship that smaller then you with Torpedoes TO much, they are more then capable of gutting you. Of course, that requires you Disrespect the escort and your own escort screens haven't kept that Smaller ships from making a ballsy move that last in the first place.

The second most common use for 40k torps seems to be as a weapon that forces your enemy to maneuvered, cutting off their choices. If you fire a spread of torpedoes in an intercept course with their current flight plan, You can basically say "no, You don't get to fly their" Saying No to an enemy is always good, Because it limits choices and forces decision making.

Eldar and torps are interesting, In that torps... seem to kinda suck against eldar? But Eldar seem like they would love torps themselves. Eldar ships are build incredibly fast, incredibly glass cannon, and Throw up E-war Haze everywhere they go, which makes Torps, Which Focus on both disrupting the where of your enemy flight plan and acting as the push knife for a kidney shot, incredibly hard to actually USE on Eldar ships because even if they are actually where you think they are, They are so bullshit athletic they might dance out of the way anyway.

Eldar on the other hand, seem like they would LOVE torps, Because its a weapon that requires you get in close to kill, easier to do if you are covered in Holofields, have Literal future sight and can turn on a dime, Meaning they seem like they would be great for letting small wolf-packs of Eldar ships Fuck up much larger ship types who Can't turn on a dime, And the ability for eldar ships to use their torps to deny the one or two flight paths that their farseers say would have led to a good shot seems invaluable.
 
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There might be a way to build PD factories, given it can be just slapped on top of a ship without much consideration for structure and power.

They pretty much just use the vehicle weapon versions, so just build a few weapon foundries that produce weapons of that size.
That should go a long way to help the ship building speed.
 
I wonder what the next few turns will look like for the Sign of the Seeker.

We'll have 10AP, with two more locked in on Conversion fields,

And carried over from this turn, we'll have Meson Blasters (5 AP), 2 more grav weapons (Torsion and Impact, 4AP), and Haywire Weapons (4AP), for a total of 13 AP.

I think Haywire weapons are a must, because we want to Capture some Biel-tan tech... and Meson Blasters should synergize pretty well with that. It also leaves us with less wasted AP (using 9/10, instead of just 8/10 if we researched both Grav Weapons).

Haywire Torpedos, anyone? Or maybe haywire weapons for defence?
 
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[X] Void-Sail Ketch

Every single Starlance we pull off these ships had better go into a titan-hunter tank.
 
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While the Stellar Rose does give us a design that'll last until technology renders it obsolete, the Void-Sail let's our Ketch's retain their Fatetwister batteries. With our fleet battered and small we need to retain these advantages.
Even if it means we need to design another Ketch in the future. Though we can deal with refits and Nettles for a while I think.

[X] Void-Sail Ketch
 
Haywire Torpedos, anyone? Or maybe haywire weapons for defence?

Reading up on it a bit.
Not a lot of Haywire weaponry in the lore from what found on the wiki.
The biggest one was a missile mounted on some imperial Titans, and it was noted to do nothing if the other Titan had its void shields up.

Also in all versions mentions that they are some form of electromagnetic weapons with some radiation mixed in.
Even spaceships that don't have voidshields can likely shrug most forms of both of these due to the constant exposure they have to deal with in space.
 
[X] Void-Sail Ketch

lets be real, as we unlock new tech, we will be Designing a new escort anyway, Its fine to have a less efficient ship for now when our primary focus right now is to have a big enough stick to not die, instead of having a decently big stick that we can make hundreds of.
 
I can only pray Mechanis takes mercy on us at some point and has a vote for unit naming conventions at some point. Arach-Qin is just casually flexing on us by making bug names look cool. I don't mind if we standardize on fish, thorny/poisonous plants, or anything from stellar phenomena, to HH novel names or whatever but I'd love if we had some naming consistency established.
 
Turn 2: Frigate Subvote
Somewhat late as I ran out of battery for a bit, but
Adhoc vote count started by Mechanis on Jun 29, 2024 at 6:15 PM, finished with 189 posts and 21 votes.

  • [X] Void-Sail Ketch
    [X] Stellar Rose-class Lance Frigate (350 SC, ~50 NEP)
    [X] Void-Sail Ketch
    -[X] 1x Heavy Starlance -1 Heayv slot
    -[X] 1x Fatetwister Cannon Weapons Battery - 1 Weapon slot
    -[X] 2x Æthersail - 2 System slot
    -[X] 1x Plasma Thrusters - 2 System slots
    -[X] 1x Las-Lance Point Defense Battery -1 System slots
    -[X] 1x Holo-Field -1 System slot
    -[X] Trade in one weapon slot for 1 System Slot
    -[X] Grav-Shield - 2 system slots.
    [X] Stellar Rose-class Lance Frigate (350 SC, ~50 NEP)
    -[X] 1x Heavy Starlance Battery, 1x Las-Lance Battery (350 SC, 25 NEP)
    -[X] Las-Cannon Point Defense Battery (12 NEP)
    -[X] 2x Aethersail, 1x Plasma Thruster (?)
    -[X] Holo-Field, Grav-Shield (8 NEP)
    [X] Ag-Aiel Ketch*
    -[X] 1x Heavy Starlance, 1x Fatetwister Cannon Weapons Battery
    -[X] Holo-Field, Grav-Shield
    -[X] 4x Æthersails
 
I can only pray Mechanis takes mercy on us at some point and has a vote for unit naming conventions at some point. Arach-Qin is just casually flexing on us by making bug names look cool. I don't mind if we standardize on fish, thorny/poisonous plants, or anything from stellar phenomena, to HH novel names or whatever but I'd love if we had some naming consistency established.

I like to imagine that the reason why we have so many different conflicting names for our equipment (IC) is because we've basically contracted the development of this stuff out to groups (or maybe "Guilds") of bonesingers who all have their own naming conventions, just that this particular group isn't very imaginative with their names :V
 
So our Void Sail Ketch is an absurdly lethal piece of fuck you, both faster than our other Ketch design with heavierarmament, And both Holofield and Grav-shield.

Yeah, we are gonna kill So many orks with this lovely lady.
 
So our Void Sail Ketch is an absurdly lethal piece of fuck you, both faster than our other Ketch design with heavierarmament, And both Holofield and Grav-shield.

Yeah, we are gonna kill So many orks with this lovely lady.
We're gonna kill so much of them that they would love fighting us which in turn we could also have them industrialized as exp farm for our troops to be veterans on.
 
We're gonna kill so much of them that they would love fighting us which in turn we could also have them industrialized as exp farm for our troops to be veterans on.
Y'know...why do I feel like that is something the Aeldari Dominion did before they...automized(?) everything and started up with the R34 list of fetishes.
 
Y'know...why do I feel like that is something the Aeldari Dominion did before they...automized(?) everything and started up with the R34 list of fetishes.

Well, it explains why there were a bunch of orks around large enough Wabway gates for Craftworlds to come out of. They were hunting reserves for bored Eldar who fancied spinning up a fleet or army with a Reality Engine and playing a real life strategy war game.

A long travel time would be boring.
 
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