Hmmm.

Roughly what kind of a scale are we talking about here, with this refit? How many ships, what needs replacing, and what are they looking for in terms of doctrine?
Probably not that many. Human population pre-agriculture is usually estimated at single digit millions. Eldar aren't humans obviously, and these Exodites do have farms, but it shows the sort of scale you'd expect out of a population that only grudgingly agrees to farm things.
 
i prefer to do all three...sure we may get a parable by the crazy clowns...but the idea of eventually giving them a actual clown car is hilarious.
 
2 Thysania BB General purpose combatant- Heavy Lance primary armament
9 Calliplaca BC General purpose combatant- Heavy Lance primary armament, dropped durability for increased speed, uses less systems than the Thysania
2 Phalaros CA General purpose combatant- No Heavy weapons at all, intended to serve allongside the Calliplaca
5 Terncladus HFF Heavy Lance Boat/Point Defense boat, probably a Caravel hull, notably less engines than most other cruiser designs
12 Synempora CVL Light Carrier, no point defense, less engines and meant to serve alongside the Terncladus
22 Argema DD Very multi-role screen, carries PD and 1-1 Aethersail Plasma Thruster vs. double aethersails

34 Escorts
16 Capital Ships

It's interesting to note how few BBs there are compared to BCs which almost certainly are built on the same hull. The Terncladus seems like an interesting refit of the Caravel. Specializing our Caravels might be worth it considering their system limitations makes flexibility hard but they can carry a ton of heavy weapons. Alternatively a Carrack refit could carry 4 Heavy Lances, a macro battery or two, a thruster, an Aethersail, Holo+Grav and 2x Reinfroced hull (or invest that into another Aethersail).

It's interesting that the Argema is the only design that isn't heavily intertwined with another. Synempora and Terncladus are meant to deploy together and match speeds, Calliplaca and Phalaros match speeds and the Phalaros trades any native point defense to upgrade one of their lances to heavy, and Thysania and Coscinocera have the same weaponry on the same hull- one is merely centered around maneuver, the other around the anvil.
Huh, Arech-Qin actually has proper warships?
They actually have a fair few of their slots empty on a lot of them but so it seems- I suspect those gaps are where Pre-Fall lost technologies were fitted. I don't want to overly fixate on exactly copying them but there's some interstesting things we can probably learn from examining the composition of their fleet (notwithstanding the novel technologies)- I'd probably be willing to fit on holo-fields as a matter of course, maybe the grav shields if they're willing to actively teach us in exchange.
 
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A couple of heavy cruisers, a handful of cruisers, and around thirty or so escorts. Their fleet exists mostly to make them too hard a nut for random gribblies, pirates, lost Waaaghs, and so on to crack, not to go around conquering things or protect a planet sized starship with millions to billions of people on it. They'll probably mostly want holo-fields and maybe a Grav-Shield or two to replace the defense systems that aren't working anymore, and maybe some Spike Cannons or Las-Lances to replace some of the exotic stuff they're concerned about their ability to maintain long term. Nothing too onerous or exciting.

Do we have to individually fix every one of these ships or is it mostly a commitment of yard berths? Because we are not lacking in yards.
 
Yeah, removing all the exotics from our Ketches leaves us with genuinely more exotics than we'll be able to reasonably spend for a while. I'm currently leaning towards splitting the Assault Ketches into two classes, one that keeps the Heavy Starlance as a dedicated lance boat, and one that drops the heavy mount to convert it's Fatetwister Battery into a Fatesheer CIWB. Roughly 3-1 ratios composing a typical frigate squadron. If these ships are carrying expensive exotic weaponry they do probably deserve decent defenses so we have to find room to fit in holo-fields, a grav-shield, and a reinforced hull.

Stellar Rose-class Fleet Frigate (350 SC, ~45 NEP)
1x Heavy Starlance Battery, 1x Las-Lance Battery (350 SC, 25 NEP)
1x Reinforced Hull (?)
Las-Cannon Point Defense Battery (12 NEP)
1x Aethersail, 1x Plasma Thruster (?)
Holo-Field, Grav-Shield (8 NEP)
Ivory Holly-class Defense Frigate (40 PS, ~49 NEP)
2x Las-Lance Battery (10 NEP)
1x Reinforced Hull (?)
Fatesheer CIWB (40 PS, 30 NEP)
1x Aethersail, 1x Plasma Thruster (?)
Holo-Field, Grav-Shield (8 NEP)

Yeah. This just proves to me we cannot afford any more shields. Maybe as a replacement, but if 1x Reinforced hull is only a minor armor belt, we're going to be really thin skinned if we basically force ourselves to devote any more system slots to shields. As is, we're still going to be fairly squishy past the Holo-Fields and Grav-Shields.
I mean, it's the life of the Eldar to have fewer hull points and less armor than the other races. Our #aesthetic demands no less. Now, if you mean 'we can't stack 1 holofield, 2 gravity sheilds, 2 void shields, and 1 conversion field all on one ship' I happen to agree. Actually, I think 'Holofield+Gravshield' is overkill, especially when we're spending 2 system slots on the backup plasma thruster. A Ketch has 7 system slots+1 from a refunded weapons slot, and ours spend 1 on Aethersail, 4 on plasma thrusters, and 2 on CIWS That leaves one slot for their defunct 'active defenses'. If we want to put on reinforced hull, holofield, and a grav-shield, we almost need to pull both the plasma thrusters off. Just the reinforced hull and the holofield leaves us with one backup thruster at least.
 
replace some of the exotic stuff they're concerned about their ability to maintain long term. Nothing too onerous or exciting.

This actually leans into what I'm already asking: can we reverse engineer it? Like, if they're asking for us to refit from exotics, can we get those exotics? Or even just the schematic?

And with the Arech-Qin I'm assuming we get the schematics for all of the novel systems as part of the deal, yes?
 
I mean, it's the life of the Eldar to have fewer hull points and less armor than the other races. Our #aesthetic demands no less. Now, if you mean 'we can't stack 1 holofield, 2 gravity sheilds, 2 void shields, and 1 conversion field all on one ship' I happen to agree. Actually, I think 'Holofield+Gravshield' is overkill, especially when we're spending 2 system slots on the backup plasma thruster. A Ketch has 7 system slots+1 from a refunded weapons slot, and ours spend 1 on Aethersail, 4 on plasma thrusters, and 2 on CIWS That leaves one slot for their defunct 'active defenses'. If we want to put on reinforced hull, holofield, and a grav-shield, we almost need to pull both the plasma thrusters off. Just the reinforced hull and the holofield leaves us with one backup thruster at least.
The Argema shows that 1x Aethersail and 1x Plasma Thruster is plenty viable so I'm considering stripping the second thruster off as an obvious gimme. Hell, two of their light cruisers mount the exact same setup. Even without the second thruster it's tight, I'm already looking at how much Arach Qin pays for cruiser engines and that's going to be even worse.

7-3 for Holo+Shield, -3 for Aethersail+Thruster can get away with just either armor or a PD grid. I'd like to have both, but we might also want a dedicated defense frigate (which is what I'm proposing).
 
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What fun! What Jest!
Not a night of Rest!
"We are very busy"
The Fool yet lives,
And so thusly his shadows,
"Clown god is alive and so are we"
So come now quick,
This is no trick,
"You doing this for us would be great for us and for you"
But offer the aid of these Fools do we,
"But we found some weak proto-Drukhari(probably)
To see thy world remain vibrant and free!
"They have (probably) took some exodites as slaves, they will (probably) join you when you free them"

I think that this is what they meant mostly because they talk about Ceogorath as the fool, themselves as his shadows, yet the true fools are the drukhari
 
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@Mechanis

Do we now have access to these techs and ship designs? Since we're repairing them and all. Finding out how they work in the process.
You will be getting the option to develop Torpedoes & Volcano Cannons and a bonus for Melta weapons, yes, but you do still need to actually learn the technology in general.

The hull designs would be a bit gauche to clone directly at this juncture, but they can certainly inform future design ideas.

Do we have to individually fix every one of these ships or is it mostly a commitment of yard berths? Because we are not lacking in yards.
It would be a modest commitment in berthing, yes.
 
The Nettle class is a light escort developed to replace the original hasty refits in use by Vau-Vulkesh. The ship is propelled by a pair of Æthersails, with a starship grade Holo-Field for defense.

Construction Time:
  • 1 Turn (single ship)
  • 2 Turns (batch of 3)
  • 3 Turns (batch of 5)
  • 4 Turns (batch of 7)
Poor ship doesn't even get its weaponry listed.

So the listing here of construction time puts this bit of the last turn post into context:
You may begin constructing, repairing, or refitting (once you have designs to refit them to) a starship (or several) by spending one (or more) of your actions to do so. Note that even a destroyer is a massive construction project which can take multiple turns at this stage, and will effectively soft-lock that action for some time. You are also limited in how many docks you have available; currently this amounts to 80 capable of handling a capital ship and 240 able to construct Escorts.
Capital ships are Light Cruisers and up. Escorts are Frigates, Destroyers, Corvettes, and Raiders. You do not presently have hulls for the latter two, but they exist.

[ ] Begin Construction of an Escort (3 points)
[ ] Begin Construction of a Capital Ship (4 points)
So the construction times listed are if 3 AP are devoted to start 1-to-7 ships, presumably? Meaning that depending on how much we rush the project, a single Nettle destroyer could cost anywhere from 3 AP down to 1.71 AP, as the use of the phrase "soft-lock that action" implies to me that we need all 3 AP of the action to be devoted throughout the entire construction project.

Ships are extremely expensive and take a long time to build, regardless. Presumably our frigates will take even longer to build, but given the Bonesinger AP requirements I don't think we could ever come anywhere close to filling up the docks with ongoing construction- they'll always be dominated by repair and refit activity, which is a lot more AP-efficient (0.33 AP per escort, with lesser commitment requirements, as I recall).
 
I say we do all three, helping minor craft worlds will improve our rep with most of the Aeldari remnants despite Biel-Tan's grudge against us andit could lead to future collaboration and alliance. Plus I have a weakness for the capricious space clowns.
 
[] Plan: There's nothing funnier than pranking Orks
-[ ] Val-Terrine
-[ ] The Masque of Sundered Lovers

EP is going to be pretty tight next turn, and that means we may need some BAP to help get the ball rolling on our army refits, there's further aid for Zahr-Tan and Meros, and the likely incentive to actually develop Meltas of our own (I doubt we'll be able to get all the techs without some AP even if Arach-Qin freely gives them). We could make it work, but I don't think we need to desperately make it work and there's no world where we don't find a vital use for all of our BAP either way.

So the construction times listed are if 3 AP are devoted to start 1-to-7 ships, presumably? Meaning that depending on how much we rush the project, a single Nettle destroyer could cost anywhere from 3 AP down to 1.71 AP, as the use of the phrase "soft-lock that action" implies to me that we need all 3 AP of the action to be devoted throughout the entire construction project.

Ships are extremely expensive and take a long time to build, regardless. Presumably our frigates will take even longer to build, but given the Bonesinger AP requirements I don't think we could ever come anywhere close to filling up the docks with ongoing construction- they'll always be dominated by repair and refit activity, which is a lot more AP-efficient (0.33 AP per escort, with lesser commitment requirements, as I recall).
I don't think we need all the AP devoted all the time. It seems like it's full AP price to lay them down, and then a much smaller (likely singular AP) to keep building them until they're ready.
Ships cost AP to lay down, but unless you are building a very great many at once continuing builds will generally be lumped into a single action.
 
Poor ship doesn't even get its weaponry listed.

So the listing here of construction time puts this bit of the last turn post into context:

So the construction times listed are if 3 AP are devoted to start 1-to-7 ships, presumably? Meaning that depending on how much we rush the project, a single Nettle destroyer could cost anywhere from 3 AP down to 1.71 AP, as the use of the phrase "soft-lock that action" implies to me that we need all 3 AP of the action to be devoted throughout the entire construction project.

Ships are extremely expensive and take a long time to build, regardless. Presumably our frigates will take even longer to build, but given the Bonesinger AP requirements I don't think we could ever come anywhere close to filling up the docks with ongoing construction- they'll always be dominated by repair and refit activity, which is a lot more AP-efficient (0.33 AP per escort, with lesser commitment requirements, as I recall).
You spend the AP to start a ship/batch, and then it gets rolled into a general "keep building" action unless you are doing a very great many builds at once. Repairs and Refits are similar. As stated before, the primary resource in ship construction is time.
 
So uh. Can we not accept all three? Or i guess that would split our attention even further huh…
Well, the Harlequins don't require payment so we could feasibly pick one of the others and them. You know, assuming they're not pulling too much clownfuckery on us.
You spend the AP to start a ship/batch, and then it gets rolled into a general "keep building" action unless you are doing a very great many builds at once. Repairs and Refits are similar. As stated before, the primary resource in ship construction is time.
And the "keep building" action is just 1 AP?
 
[]Plan Save EVERYONE
-[ ] Quilan
-[ ] Val-Terrine
-[ ] The Masque of Sundered Lovers

[]Plan The Clown Cannot Honk
-[ ] Quilan
-[ ] Val-Terrine

I believe that both Quilan and Val-Terrine are doable, although Val will stretch our fleet a fair bit. The real question mark is the Masque, who are...

...actually, I should ask that. @Mechanis , are the Harlequins willing to give more hints as to any sort of catches? Not enough to compromise their opsec, just enough so we know what it's going to take.

EDIT: And I could have just read it:
[ ] The Masque of Sundered Lovers
The mysterious Harlequins are willing to help you get into contact with sources of expertise you may not have considered or known of. Supposedly for free, but the Laughing God's followers are… occasionally less than predictable. And sometimes a little too fond of the parable about being careful what one wishes for…

 
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GM said we could pick all three, i am More than happy to pick all three.

Being the Shipyard of this entire sector of space seems honestly perfect for our needs. We fix up some ships in need of tlc, we hunt down orks, and we deal with Clowns. I am happy with all three options.
 
are the Harlequins willing to give more hints as to any sort of catches? Not enough to compromise their opsec, just enough so we know what it's going to take.

The Harlequins are our Deadliest Option. At least to us as Questers. They offer a Mystery Box. What is in the Box? What will it cost us? What will we get if we pick the Box? *picks up the Idea of the Box and shakes it to find out what is inside*

I would like to find out and actually trust the Harlequins. Even if they do something that is not profitable to us, it will likely help somewhere else.
 
It would be a modest commitment in berthing, yes.

That's not so bad then, our berthing vastly outstrips our production capacity, so if it's just more berths being taken up, I don't see a big issue in the short term.

Joking aside, while the Laughing God is definitely a clown, he's generally in favor of the Space Elfs surviving, and his dudes have ins with every successor of the Diaspora so that they don't forget where they came from. I don't see him burning those bridges even to do a Funni in this early stage of things if he didn't even do it for the Dark Space Elfs.
 
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So, I'll say again that we should use the forge to speed the recovery of AQ vessels.

The basics of farming is the simplest option and it would suck to be forced to drastic measures because we lacked knowledge of something fundamental like crop rotation and ended up running out of food.
 
We'll see what our budget looks like, but it's a possible choice, yeah.

Honestly, I think I'm in favor of just grabbing the trifecta. We need every asset we can get, and the only one of these that looks to be a major burden is Val-Terrine, and it's potentially doable depending on the size of the attackers (And I don't think it'll be too huge given the description)
 
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