To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

Vehrec · Jan 10, 2018

[ ][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
[ ][CARD] Cardassian Fleet Strength Report

[ ][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report

[ ][KLI] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
[ ][KLI] Klingon Shipbuilding Report

[ ][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Solace Class
[ ][HOH] Horizon Fleet Strength Report
[ ][HOH] Horizon Diplomatic Posture Report

[ ][ISC] ISC Shipyard Report

[ ][REPORT] Konen Fleet Strength Report
[ ][REPORT] Goshawnar Fleet Strength Report
[ ][REPORT] Dylaarian Fleet Strength Report
[ ][REPORT] Dawiar Diplomatic Posture
[ ][REPORT] [strike]Romulan Shipyard Report[/strike]Status/Progress of Klingon-Romulan War
[ ][REPORT] ISC Pathfinder Capital Ship Report

My priorities-I'm jumping the gun a bit here by removing the tactical report, but by all indications the Cardassians are standing down and have begun negotiations-heavy conflict at this stage could only serve to derail those procedures. So I go for both fleet strength and shipbuiliding reports, as part of a general push to get to grips with the strength of the whole Cardassian-centered alliance. Romulan and klingons both are diplomatically fragile with chaos in the rear-but in the front, I expect there is order, if only to prevent the other side breaking through. That's a fast-changing situation, and I expect we'll see yet more changes to come. The Romulan shipyard report is more a check to be sure that they really have lost all their frontline shipyards, and not evacuated critical machinery and population to some rear area where they have begun production again. The general chaos may help us break through any attempts to hide this.

Horizon get three reports, so let's go for ship information, a fleet strength report, and a diplomatic report, because damn if they aren't keeping us on our toes-support our boys in the task forces with this report.. ISC needs a shipyard report-have we ever gotten one for them? Signs point to no, and we still don't know anything about their basic ship types, so after a coinflip, we're researching the biguns. The triplet of Ashala pact fleet reports serve the previously mentioned purpose, and the Dawiar diplomatic report assists our task force.

Open to critique of course.

ETA: Added second Klingon report, replaced Shipyard report.

pheonix89 · Jan 10, 2018

UberJJK said:
I think what is going on is that the Member fleets were supposed to be a check on Starfleet's power. They were ran as completely separate organizations to minimize the chance of them all being compromised by Starfleet. Now however the number of Member fleets has grown significantly, the size of Starfleet has grown significantly, the inefficiencies of having so many separate fleets is starting to show (hence why groups like the STO and Honiani sub-federation formed), and Starfleet has proven itself to have moved away from the days of Admiral Cartwright in the last twenty years.

So while there are still advantages to maintaining a reserve fleet the situation has changed to such a degree that they don't need twenty Member fleets. Instead they can start consolidating them into larger fleet organizations. The risk of Starfleet working to compromise them is also likely being seen as low enough that they can instead start cross-training to help raise standards in the newly consolidated fleets.

Plus they've discovered that the big check on crazy ass admirals is EC and capital ship captains going FUCK THAT NOISE and crashing the party in Ace Custom multirole capital ships. Any coup attempt by Starfleet brass right now would have to cope with Samyr Kanil turning her eternal overwhelming EWAR/IWAR supremacy to making sure the counter-coup forces know everything and the coupists know only what she wants them to know while Zara ka'Anthnon reminds them that existing in our dimension is a revocable right and Demora Sulu asks them since when they were under the impression that their staff worked for the coupists. Meanwhile the Avander is in exactly the right place at the right time to disrupt things terribly and the Salnas is playing starship pinball with pro-coup ships.

[x][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)
[x][CARD] Cardassian Fleet Strength Report

[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report

[X][KLI] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
[X][KLI] Klingon Shipbuilding Report

[X][HOH] Horizon Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Virtuoso Strike Corvette
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Solace Cruiser

[X][ISC] ISC Ship Analysis Report - Guardian Cruiser

[X][REPORT] Romulan New Government and Political Cohesion
[X][REPORT] Klingon New Government and Political Cohesion
[X][REPORT] Status/Progress of Klingon-Romulan War

[X][REPORT] Cardassian Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Connections between Imelak and Hismeri

[X][REPORT] Lecarre Diplomatic Posture Report

Deathbybunnies · Jan 10, 2018

Vehrec said:
My priorities-I'm jumping the gun a bit here by removing the tactical report, but by all indications the Cardassians are standing down and have begun negotiations-heavy conflict at this stage could only serve to derail those procedures.

Well, yes, we aren't taking the tactics report for the eventuality everything goes swimmingly. It looks unlikely that they'll attack, but I don't think it's so unlikely that we should drop it before the treaty is signed - they could always have a last minute offensive to jockey for a better treaty outcome.

MonkeyTypewriter · Jan 10, 2018

There's also the fact that the combined Original Federation member fleet will be a monster. Keep in mind that Earth has a higher Infra value than the entire STO. They'll have a combined infra value of 12.33, and a combined combat of 236, with two E-A's and an Amby in the pipe.

Vehrec · Jan 10, 2018

Deathbybunnies said:
Well, yes, we aren't taking the tactics report for the eventuality everything goes swimmingly. It looks unlikely that they'll attack, but I don't think it's so unlikely that we should drop it before the treaty is signed - they could always have a last minute offensive to jockey for a better treaty outcome.

It looks vanishingly unlikely that they will attack-and an attack now can destroy any treaty outcome. I rate it as perhaps a 5% chance they attack, in which case, it will likely be a highly stage-managed affair where a mere 5% advantage to our side may not count for much. Attacking while you are at the negotiating table does not do much to improve your prospective outcome-indeed, it may give US an advantage.

Derpmind · Jan 10, 2018

OneirosTheWriter said:
There's some very interesting rumours coming out about the next project on the agenda of President Okaar. It's been kept fairly quiet, and happening at an technocrat-to-technocrat sort of level. But it looks like, prompted in part by the STO and the incoming prospect of the Honiani, that there may be a move towards a super-governmental body among the original four members

I can't help but worry that this might not be a good thing. (So this might be a little alarmist.) For all its strengths and diversity, Starfleet does have somewhat of a homogenizing quality to it. How would it look to our more independent members and potential members if, say, the original four joined their separate fleets into one? It might seem like a move towards requiring all member fleets to be subsumed into being a division of Starfleet. It's reasonable to require a unified world government, but a state's starship fleet basically is their military and interstellar economy in one.

This might be someting way smaller or more benign, like cross-training excersises to try and give member fleets some of Starfleet's veterancy bonus. Still, we know the dangers of a Starfleet Admiral who embraces war too much. What are the dangers of a Federation President who brings diplomacy to an extreme? /rampant-speculation

agumentic · Jan 10, 2018

I think we want those RSE and KE government reports Briefvoice submitted... here.
[X][REPORT] Romulan New Government and Political Cohesion
[X][REPORT] Klingon New Government and Political Cohesion
Plus the usual war report.
[X][REPORT] Status/Progress of Klingon-Romulan War

Briefvoice · Jan 10, 2018

@OneirosTheWriter I thought we were supposed to be asked for our input on the final Gabriel settlement during the Steering Committee.

Derpmind said:
I can't help but worry that this might not be a good thing. (So this might be a little alarmist.) For all its strengths and diversity, Starfleet does have somewhat of a homogenizing quality to it. How would it look to our more independent members and potential members if, say, the original four joined their separate fleets into one? It might seem like a move towards requiring all member fleets to be subsumed into being a division of Starfleet. It's reasonable to require a unified world government, but a state's starship fleet basically is their military and interstellar economy in one.

I see it a different way. It's not really about Starfleet so much as an acknowledgement that as the Federation has grown so large it makes sense to start adding more governmental organizations at the sub-Federation but supra-National level.

Thors_Alumni · Jan 10, 2018

[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
[X][CARD] Cardassian Fleet Strength Report
[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report
[X][KLI] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Solace Class
[X][HOH] Horizon Fleet Strength Report
[X][HOH] Horizon Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][ISC] ISC Shipyard Report
[X][REPORT] Konen Fleet Strength Report
[X][REPORT] Goshawnar Fleet Strength Report
[X][REPORT] Dylaarian Fleet Strength Report
[X][REPORT] Dawiar Diplomatic Posture
[X][REPORT] Romulan Shipyard Report
[X][REPORT] ISC Pathfinder Capital Ship Report

Briefvoice · Jan 10, 2018

OneirosTheWriter said:
I'm not especially sure, tbh, but it was two last turn with a failed listening post check, and you added the Horizon research in Q3, so...

That might have just been an edit error on your part. Your post that year said to pick two, but then also said listening post failed, and we weren't sure which was a mistake so we voted for two reports. But we should only be getting three if listening posts succeeded.

Gmerguy · Jan 10, 2018

Briefvoice said:
@OneirosTheWriter I thought we were supposed to be asked for our input on the final Gabriel settlement during the Steering Committee.

I see it a different way. It's not really about Starfleet so much as an acknowledgement that as the Federation has grown so large it makes sense to start adding more governmental organizations at the sub-Federation but supra-National level.

This is my take on it as well. Up until recently national fleet interactions and responsibilities were very case by case and adhoc. While this worked when the federation was small and had few members it doesn't really work at the size we are at now.

Briefvoice · Jan 10, 2018

[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
[X][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)

[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report

[X][KLI] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
[X][KLI] Klingon Shipbuilding Report

[X][HOH] Horizon Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Virtuoso Strike Corvette
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Solace Cruiser

[X][ISC] ISC Ship Analysis Report - Guardian Cruiser

[X][REPORT] Romulan New Government and Political Cohesion
[X][REPORT] Klingon New Government and Political Cohesion
[X][REPORT] Status/Progress of Klingon-Romulan War

Above votes are basically a more focused version of "diplomatic posture" attempting to report on specific personalities and goals of the people that the Federation will be attempting to negotiate a peace treaty with. Looking to provide maximum aid to negotiators.

[X][REPORT] Cardassian Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Connections between Imelak and Hismeri

I think Cardassian Diplomatic Posture would be very useful to have as we continue to negotiate.

[X][REPORT] Lecarre Diplomatic Posture Report

I think it's well past time we got a report on the Lecarre. Are they really satisfied with how things stand as the Cardassian's spyguys? What are their long term goals here, given how spatially isolated their position is from the rest of the Ashalla Pact? How will they react if the Dawiar split? Etc, etc.

Theunderbolt · Jan 10, 2018

[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
[X][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)
[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report
[X][KLI] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
[X][KLI] Klingon Shipbuilding Report
[X][HOH] Horizon Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Virtuoso Strike Corvette
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Solace Cruiser
[X][ISC] ISC Ship Analysis Report - Guardian Cruiser
[X][REPORT] Romulan New Government and Political Cohesion
[X][REPORT] Klingon New Government and Political Cohesion
[X][REPORT] Status/Progress of Klingon-Romulan War
[X][REPORT] Cardassian Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Connections between Imelak and Hismeri
[X][REPORT] Lecarre Diplomatic Posture Report

Briefvoice · Jan 10, 2018

OneirosTheWriter said:
2321.Q2

Starfleet Intelligence Command - Steering Committee

Admiral,

Called up to the first division, Admiral ch'Tharvasse, what an exciting time! Just remember, things come at you fast in this league.

I remember that ch'Tharvasse comes out of Starfleet Intelligence. Vice Admiral Lecras is only one rank grade lower... it's fully possible she was his direct subordinate at some point, explaining the slightly chummy tone here.

News of a Romulan uprising at Iberius viciously suppressed, narrowly averted ecological catastrophe's on Romulus, the sudden deaths of four of seven contenders for the Klingon Chancellorship. The Cardassians may be aware of our moves among the Dawiar, the Lecarre are infiltrating again, Horizon is continuing to press on the diplomatic front, the Ashalla Pact home front is abuzz with domestic turmoil over the prospect of peace in the GBZ...

Wow, there's a hell of a lot going on. Makes you appreciate the Federation's own relatively peaceful internal politics.

Also, there are a few peculiar, and very rare, diplomatic outreaches from the Sotaw to the Licori. We are trying to look into that now.

Wow, the Licori seem to have become stellar hub for diplomacy. Just this past year we've heard of them making contacts with the Gorn, the OSA, and now the Sotaw. Not to mention that we know they've been dealing with the Federation (obviously), the HoH, and the Romulans. They may be weak right now, but obviously everyone sees great things in the future of the Arcadian Empire and wants to grab a piece of that future.

Admiral ch'Tharvasse

There's some very interesting rumours coming out about the next project on the agenda of President Okaar. It's been kept fairly quiet, and happening at an technocrat-to-technocrat sort of level. But it looks like, prompted in part by the STO and the incoming prospect of the Honiani, that there may be a move towards a super-governmental body among the original four members. Most of the speculation so far has been that this is simply to create their own consolidated power bloc.

However, I think it goes deeper than that. The MWCD has been getting queried by the President's office regarding comparative training standards between Starfleet and the fleets of the original four, for one thing. Some of the queries to Operations and Tactical are along the same veins.

I recently had dinner with a highly placed staffer in the Pacifist caucus, and it looks like now that the GBZ is winding down, without Starfleet having taken advantage of the situation to spark a war, that the Federation is taking another look at the Member Fleet situation and realising that we are a long way from the days of Admiral Cartwright now.

Dutifully,
Vice Admiral John Harriman

We've been hearing a lot from Harriman and I like it. People come to him and tell him things and then he tells us. As to the actual news, I wonder where this is going. Harriman says this is part of Okaar's agenda... but she's a Betazoid Councillor, not a member of the original Four. Why is she the one pushing this rather than Human/Vulcan/Andorian/Tellarite Councillors?

Member World Coordination Division - Fleet Update

We have been given updated details on current Sydraxian fleet strength as part of deepening cooperation.

7 Kalindrax
12 Hasque

Huh, I had been over-estimating their number of Haques but underestimating their number of Kalindraxes. Given they use the Swarm doctirne, I would have expected them to emphasize frigates much more.

Nix · Jan 10, 2018

Briefvoice said:
We've been hearing a lot from Harriman and I like it. People come to him and tell him things and then he tells us. As to the actual news, I wonder where this is going. Harriman says this is part of Okaar's agenda... but she's a Betazoid Councillor, not a member of the original Four. Why is she the one pushing this rather than Human/Vulcan/Andorian/Tellarite Councillors?

Because as President of the Federation she is supposed to set the agenda for the entire Federation, not just things involving her home planet? Sure, Councilors can also take the initiative, and coucilors of the worlds in question are going to be deeply involved, but it's not like she's sticking her nose into things that should be of no concern to her.

Briefvoice · Jan 10, 2018

Vehrec said:
My priorities-I'm jumping the gun a bit here by removing the tactical report, but by all indications the Cardassians are standing down and have begun negotiations-heavy conflict at this stage could only serve to derail those procedures. So I go for both fleet strength and shipbuiliding reports, as part of a general push to get to grips with the strength of the whole Cardassian-centered alliance. Romulan and klingons both are diplomatically fragile with chaos in the rear-but in the front, I expect there is order, if only to prevent the other side breaking through. That's a fast-changing situation, and I expect we'll see yet more changes to come. The Romulan shipyard report is more a check to be sure that they really have lost all their frontline shipyards, and not evacuated critical machinery and population to some rear area where they have begun production again. The general chaos may help us break through any attempts to hide this.

I think we need the regular Kling-Romulan War report, even if you think things are too chaotic otherwise for any report on their governments.

Horizon get three reports, so let's go for ship information, a fleet strength report, and a diplomatic report, because damn if they aren't keeping us on our toes-support our boys in the task forces with this report.. ISC needs a shipyard report-have we ever gotten one for them? Signs point to no, and we still don't know anything about their basic ship types, so after a coinflip, we're researching the biguns. The triplet of Ashala pact fleet reports serve the previously mentioned purpose, and the Dawiar diplomatic report assists our task force.

I think at this point ship stats for the Harmony are more important than fleet strength, as a general war seems terribly unlikely but individual match-ups with specific ships are possible.

Vehrec · Jan 10, 2018

Briefvoice said:
[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
[X][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)

Again, I really feel that this is a huge waste of a report. You want a Cardassian diplomatic posture report and you can get it here. +5% combat is a margin of victory, to be sure, but it's only significant if the outcome of the battle in or against our favor is not banished to the realm of absurdity. And as I have stated before, I think a Cardassian attack this late in negotiations would be a dangerous game to play that could just as easily derail their plans as promote them. The tactics report is overcautious in the light of the enormous forces we hold in the GBZ, which alone are a sufficent margin of victory in any conflict there we can readily anticipate. Smaller conflicts where several of their ships ambush some of ours, might see it prove decisive, but would be unlikely to be a significant push to make us give up at the negotiations.

[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report

[X][KLI] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
[X][KLI] Klingon Shipbuilding Report

[X][HOH] Horizon Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Virtuoso Strike Corvette
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Solace Cruiser

[X][ISC] ISC Ship Analysis Report - Guardian Cruiser

Glad to see we are in broad agreement here.

[X][REPORT] Romulan New Government and Political Cohesion
[X][REPORT] Klingon New Government and Political Cohesion
[X][REPORT] Status/Progress of Klingon-Romulan War

Above votes are basically a more focused version of "diplomatic posture" attempting to report on specific personalities and goals of the people that the Federation will be attempting to negotiate a peace treaty with. Looking to provide maximum aid to negotiators.

I'm primarily concerned that the war may be over by the time we get this feedback, or that it will be so badly out of date due to rapidly changing conditions of war. The Intel Reports have a six month turnaround, so if the war concludes before that, you've totally wasted the war report and the aid to the negotiators is also useless. If you get any actionable information at all...

[X][REPORT] Cardassian Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Connections between Imelak and Hismeri

I think Cardassian Diplomatic Posture would be very useful to have as we continue to negotiate.

Maybe-but why the Imelak and Hismeri connection investigation? We know they're belligerent against each other, and that the Imalek may have used them as slaves-do we need more information than that? Why not go for knowledge of what their allies can bring to the battlefield, so we know which threats to take more seriously, and which to dismiss?

[X][REPORT] Lecarre Diplomatic Posture Report

I think it's well past time we got a report on the Lecarre. Are they really satisfied with how things stand as the Cardassian's spyguys? What are their long term goals here, given how spatially isolated their position is from the rest of the Ashalla Pact? How will they react if the Dawiar split? Etc, etc.

How do you propose to get reliable information on a power who's trouble is 'You Can't Trust Anyone'? Short of using tricorders and psychics on the brains of their senior leadership, how do you know that what you obtain isn't blatent propeganda?

pbluekan · Jan 10, 2018

I can't say I'm terribly worried about internal powerblocs forming. Between the STO, the Honiani, and sheer industrial and military muscle of the Amarki, it's fairly inevitable as the Federation grows. There is some risk of division there but not much more than already existed. It doesn't give the blocs any more voting power in the overall Federation. It doesn't change their commitment to Starfleet. It simply homogenizes regional fleets and interests.

What is truly interesting here is how this is balanced by what looks to be a trend towards increasing commitment to Starfleet. Given our distance, both philosophically and temporally, from Cartwright it seems we may be given more leeway and resources for our goals in the near future.

As far as intel reporting goes, I generally agree with @Briefvoice with the exception of the ISC and Lecarre reports.

[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
[X][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)

This is a safeguard. We have been suspecting a ruse, and it is getting less and less likely. If it's does happen, we will need that 5% boost. If it doesn't and we have peace, we can take the other intel reports in the next few years at our leisure.

[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report
[X][KLI] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
[X][KLI] Klingon Shipbuilding Report

These are the only choices, really.

[X][HOH] Horizon Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Virtuoso Strike Corvette
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Solace Cruiser

I would have liked a fleet strength here, but that's fairly useless if we don't actually know ship capabilities. Given Diplo-Pos is this Cold War's "Fleet Distribution" it is absolutely necessary.

[X][ISC] ISC Diplomatic Posture Report

The ISC has been skittish over entering the GBZ for quite some time due to the open conflict. As that winds down, I would like to see what they are thinking. This is far more important than a ship report for a vessel we are unlikely to ever face in combat.

[X][REPORT] Romulan New Government and Political Cohesion
[X][REPORT] Klingon New Government and Political Cohesion
[X][REPORT] Status/Progress of Klingon-Romulan War
[X][REPORT] Cardassian Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Connections between Imelak and Hishmeri

Briefvoice said:
[X][REPORT] Lecarre Diplomatic Posture Report

I think it's well past time we got a report on the Lecarre. Are they really satisfied with how things stand as the Cardassian's spyguys? What are their long term goals here, given how spatially isolated their position is from the rest of the Ashalla Pact? How will they react if the Dawiar split? Etc, etc.

I completely disagree with taking this report. We know their diplomatic posture. We have had more than enough interactions with them over the years to understand their core political and diplomatic philosophy. It's paranoia. About everything. If you just assume the worst about everything going on, that is pretty much what they think. I would rather see a report on their infiltrators or a Dawiar Diplomatic Posture Report.

[X][REPORT] Report on Suspected Lecarre Infiltration

We will go with this. Lecarre infiltration has been terribly damaging in the past. I'd prefer to get some idea of what we are dealing with.

Nervos Belli · Jan 10, 2018

pbluekan said:
I can't say I'm terribly worried about internal powerblocs forming. Between the STO, the Honiani, and sheer industrial and military muscle of the Amarki, it's fairly inevitable as the Federation grows. There is some risk of division there but not much more than already existed. It doesn't give the blocs any more voting power in the overall Federation. It doesn't change their commitment to Starfleet. It simply homogenizes regional fleets and interests.

What is truly interesting here is how this is balanced by what looks to be a trend towards increasing commitment to Starfleet. Given our distance, both philosophically and temporally, from Cartwright it seems we may be given more leeway and resources for our goals in the near future.

As far as intel reporting goes, I generally agree with @Briefvoice with the exception of the ISC and Lecarre reports.

[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
[X][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)

This is a safeguard. We have been suspecting a ruse, and it is getting less and less likely. If it's does happen, we will need that 5% boost. If it doesn't and we have peace, we can take the other intel reports in the next few years at our leisure.

[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report
[X][KLI] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
[X][KLI] Klingon Shipbuilding Report

These are the only choices, really.

[X][HOH] Horizon Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Virtuoso Strike Corvette
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Solace Cruiser

I would have liked a fleet strength here, but that's fairly useless if we don't actually know ship capabilities. Given Diplo-Pos is this Cold War's "Fleet Distribution" it is absolutely necessary.

[X][ISC] ISC Diplomatic Posture Report

The ISC has been skittish over entering the GBZ for quite some time due to the open conflict. As that winds down, I would like to see what they are thinking. This is far more important than a ship report for a vessel we are unlikely to ever face in combat.

[X][REPORT] Romulan New Government and Political Cohesion
[X][REPORT] Klingon New Government and Political Cohesion
[X][REPORT] Status/Progress of Klingon-Romulan War
[X][REPORT] Cardassian Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Connections between Imelak and Hishmeri

I completely disagree with taking this report. We know their diplomatic posture. We have had more than enough interactions with them over the years to understand their core political and diplomatic philosophy. It's paranoia. About everything. If you just assume the worst about everything going on, that is pretty much what they think. I would rather see a report on their infiltrators or a Dawiar Diplomatic Posture Report.

[X][REPORT] Report on Suspected Lecarre Infiltration

We will go with this. Lecarre infiltration has been terribly damaging in the past. I'd prefer to get some idea of what we are dealing with.

We've taken two ISC diplo posture reports in the past three years, and both of them said the same thing. The ISC is an extremely cautious power, so their posture changes very slowly. We can safely hold off on that for a few years.

Briefvoice · Jan 10, 2018

Vehrec said:
Again, I really feel that this is a huge waste of a report. You want a Cardassian diplomatic posture report and you can get it here.

No I can't. Diplomatic Posture is not one of the available choices for a 'free' Cardassian report. We have to spend a General report on it.

+5% combat is a margin of victory, to be sure, but it's only significant if the outcome of the battle in or against our favor is not banished to the realm of absurdity. And as I have stated before, I think a Cardassian attack this late in negotiations would be a dangerous game to play that could just as easily derail their plans as promote them.

Remember what Vice Admrial Constance told us. The prospect of making peace in Gabriel is causing severe domestic waves internally in Cardassia. It's possible that an anti-peace faction will come out on top and suddenly change tact for an attack, even a small one masterminded by rogue elements. I figure one wasted report is a small price for peace of mind.

That said, I'm not super-enthused about it and I don't seriously object if you want to vote differently. I don't think it's that important.

I'm primarily concerned that the war may be over by the time we get this feedback, or that it will be so badly out of date due to rapidly changing conditions of war. The Intel Reports have a six month turnaround, so if the war concludes before that, you've totally wasted the war report and the aid to the negotiators is also useless. If you get any actionable information at all...

1. We might as well get war reports all the way through to the end, just so we have complete and detailed records to help Starfleet Tactical in planning for war on a similar scale.

2. I anticipate that even if the war ends, negotiations will certainly drag on well over six months. It may well be years of wrangling before a ceasefire turns into a permanent peace.

Maybe-but why the Imelak and Hismeri connection investigation? We know they're belligerent against each other, and that the Imalek may have used them as slaves-do we need more information than that? Why not go for knowledge of what their allies can bring to the battlefield, so we know which threats to take more seriously, and which to dismiss?

We don't know they're belligerent against each other. We've never heard them even mention each other. We're inferring a lot of things. We have theories based on Brosman stories and the fact that the Hishmeri use Imelak ships. But we know precious little for real. I'm advising trying to get some real confirmation before a war erupts on our doorstep, if that's the way it ends up going. Maye some of our assumptions are wrong. Maybe we have things totally backwards.

How do you propose to get reliable information on a power who's trouble is 'You Can't Trust Anyone'? Short of using tricorders and psychics on the brains of their senior leadership, how do you know that what you obtain isn't blatent propeganda?

Through the Ashalla Pact connections. The Dawiar have had some peaceful dealings with them. Our spies within the Cardassians may be able to slip us some Cardassian intelligence reports. Perhaps there are even elements within the Lecarre themselves that aren't on board with their government's current policies and would be open to some different foreign allies. I'm sure we can learn something, and we'll never know if we don't try.

pbluekan said:
[X][ISC] ISC Diplomatic Posture Report

The ISC has been skittish over entering the GBZ for quite some time due to the open conflict. As that winds down, I would like to see what they are thinking. This is far more important than a ship report for a vessel we are unlikely to ever face in combat.

We've gotten ISC Diplomatic Posture reports for the past two years running, and last time we were explicitly told, "The ISC doesn't change their minds very fast. We don't have much new information."

I don't see the ISC as someone we need yearly diplomatic posture reports on, when we don't do that for the Cardassians, the Romulans, or the Klingons.

Deathbybunnies · Jan 10, 2018

Honestly, I think I'd prefer to use the ISC Report on the possible HoH connection, because as soon as they verify they have serious issues with HoH there's likely to be fireworks.

Alastor Mobius Toth · Jan 10, 2018

My tentative picks for now are:

[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
[X][CARD] Cardassian Fleet Strength Report

Bit of a gamble, but I'd rather go with this as opposed to a tactics report in anticipation of a bigger shift towards confronting Cardassia as a whole rather than just a GBZ slog. I think One Last Charge is less likely now than it was before; If Cardassians are going to make a martial play now, I'd expect it to occur over entire border as prelude to larger hostilities.

[X][ROM] Romulan Shipyard Report
[X][KLI] Klingon Shipyard Report
[X][KLI] Klingon Fleet Strength Report

None of these are actually what I would be interested in, but if you gotta use them...I suppose Shipyard reports would be useful in indicating how much Romulan and Klingon industrial base is on fire. Although at this level of chaos and exhaustion, I imagine a lot of these are pretty much irrelevant at this juncture.

[X][HOH] Horizon Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Virtuoso Strike Corvette
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Solace Cruiser

I agree with Briefvoice here. Horizon border is unlikely to devolve into actual war, so Shipyard and Shipbuilding reports are less important compared to Cardassia. Meanwhile, their ship stats will be fairly relevant to events, and possibly deniable one-on-one encounters, so I feel that will help our Task Force the most, as well advise on what to send against Horizon in the future.

~~[][ISC] ISC Fleet Strength Report~~ [X][ISC] ISC Ship Analysis Report - Guardian Cruiser

Time to finally figure out ISC stuff.

[X][REPORT] Status/Progress of Klingon-Romulan War

I can't believe this isn't an actual option still. The conflict is in the endgame; we absolutely have to stay in the loop on this one. At the same time, I think that situation is still fluid enough that attempts at getting a read on new local governments might well be out of date by the time we get them (in so far as Romulans and Klingons have a working government at this juncture).

[X][REPORT] Lecarre Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Lecarre Fleet Strength Report
[X][REPORT] Report on Suspected Lecarre Infiltration

Right, the Lecarre have been a black hole right at our border for way too long. This stops, preferably now. We need to have an idea of what we're possibly up against, and whether they know we know. I'm not unopposed to Diplomatic Posture report either, on the off chance they aren't actually as tight with the Cardassians as they appear to be. And we should really have done this earlier. For someone who's consistently a thorn in our side even more than Konen, we know worryingly little about them that's not a supposition.

[X][REPORT] Connections between Imelak and Hismeri

I will agree that this is something worth looking into.

[X][REPORT] Suspected Obsidian Order/Cardassian Intelligence Presence in Dawiar Space

I feel like this is something that's far more serious that our Task Force makes it out to be, especially with ongoing GBZ negotiations, and Ashalla Pact having already lost Sydraxians. I don't think Cardassians are willing to let Dawiar go without repercussions, especially when it weakens Lecarre Salient even further. We should probably work to give them a leg up, or at least be prepared if something goes down.

Nervos Belli · Jan 10, 2018

Deathbybunnies said:
Honestly, I think I'd prefer to use the ISC Report on the possible HoH connection, because as soon as they verify they have serious issues with HoH there's likely to be fireworks.

I'm actually fine leaving that subject alone. I really don't think an ISC-Horizon war is in our interests right now. If we get involved, then we leave ourselves open for the Cardassians to jump on us while we're distracted, and fighting both at the same time is a prospect I'd much rather avoid. If we don't, then either the ISC wages a bloody war of subjugation on the Horizon or the Horizon defeats the ISC, neither of which I think is good for us. The only upside would be that the HoH would be too distracted to contest our diplomatic outreach, but that doesn't make up for the costs in my opinion.

Remember, the ISC are unlikely to start conflicts, but they are also unwilling to settle for anything but complete neutralization of the threat. We need to be very careful what conflicts we draw them into, especially if we want to try for an alliance of sorts.

MonkeyTypewriter · Jan 10, 2018

[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
[X][CARD] Cardassian Diplomatic Posture Report

[X][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report
[X][KLI] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
[X][KLI] Klingon Shipbuilding Report
[X][HOH] Horizon Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Virtuoso Strike Corvette
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Solace Cruiser
[X][ISC] ISC Ship Analysis Report - Guardian Cruiser
[X][REPORT] Romulan New Government and Political Cohesion
[X][REPORT] Klingon New Government and Political Cohesion
[X][REPORT] Status/Progress of Klingon-Romulan War
[X][REPORT] ISC Shipyard Report
[X][REPORT] Connections between Imelak and Hishmeri

Vehrec · Jan 10, 2018

Alastor Mobius Toth said:
My tentative picks for now are:

[X][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
[X][CARD] Cardassian Fleet Strength Report

Bit of a gamble, but I'd rather go with this as opposed to a tactics report in anticipation of a bigger shift towards confronting Cardassia as a whole rather than just a GBZ slog. I think One Last Charge is less likely now than it was before; If Cardassians are going to make a martial play now, I'd expect it to occur over entire border as prelude to larger hostilities.

[X][ROM] Romulan Shipyard Report
[X][KLI] Klingon Shipyard Report
[X][KLI] Klingon Fleet Strength Report

None of these are actually what I would be interested in, but if you gotta use them...I suppose Shipyard reports would be useful in indicating how much Romulan and Klingon industrial base is on fire. Although at this level of chaos and exhaustion, I imagine a lot of these are pretty much irrelevant at this juncture.

[X][HOH] Horizon Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Virtuoso Strike Corvette
[X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Solace Cruiser

I agree with Briefvoice here. Horizon border is unlikely to devolve into actual war, so Shipyard and Shipbuilding reports are less important compared to Cardassia. Meanwhile, their ship stats will be fairly relevant to events, and possibly deniable one-on-one encounters, so I feel that will help our Task Force the most, as well advise on what to send against Horizon in the future.

[X][ISC] ISC Fleet Strength Report

I'm not sure if we ever gave the ISC fleet more than a sideway glance; I remember there being a concern that our actual knowledge of their fleet is pretty thin. In which case, I feel this is a fairly good option. On the other hand, I wouldn't mind knowing more about their ships, but I also don't remember any of them, so...

[X][REPORT] Status/Progress of Klingon-Romulan War

I can't believe this isn't an actual option still. The conflict is in the endgame; we absolutely have to stay in the loop on this one. At the same time, I think that situation is still fluid enough that attempts at getting a read on new local governments might well be out of date by the time we get them (in so far as Romulans and Klingons have a working government at this juncture).

[X][REPORT] Lecarre Diplomatic Posture Report
[X][REPORT] Lecarre Fleet Strength Report
[X][REPORT] Report on Suspected Lecarre Infiltration

Right, the Lecarre have been a black hole right at our border for way too long. This stops, preferably now. We need to have an idea of what we're possibly up against, and whether they know we know. I'm not unopposed to Diplomatic Posture report either, on the off chance they aren't actually as tight with the Cardassians as they appear to be. And we should really have done this earlier. For someone who's consistently a thorn in our side even more than Konen, we know worryingly little about them that's not a supposition.

[X][REPORT] Connections between Imelak and Hismeri

I will agree that this is something worth looking into.

[X][REPORT] Suspected Obsidian Order/Cardassian Intelligence Presence in Dawiar Space

I feel like this is something that's far more serious that our Task Force makes it out to be, especially with ongoing GBZ negotiations, and Ashalla Pact having already lost Sydraxians. I don't think Cardassians are willing to let Dawiar go without repercussions, especially when it weakens Lecarre Salient even further. We should probably work to give them a leg up, or at least be prepared if something goes down.

We know ISC fleet strength, we don't know their ship designs or shipyards. They have two designs, a cruiser and a capital.

Spending *three* reports on the Lecarre is a bit over the top, goddamn.

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