Does whoever it was in Romulan Intel who ordered the destruction of that cruiser who helped us with the Orion's regret it? Assuming they still live themselves, that is.
Probably? I doubt there's any front in that war where another cruiser wouldn't be welcomed. The whole op seemed rather ill-conceived.

If both the Klingons and Romulans turn into fail states, will we be ordered to just reinforce the border; try to exercise peacekeeping duties; welcome or turn back refugees? We will not be ordered to seize the territory, but we might wind up defacto controlling it... I expect that whatever the orders, the RBZ and KBZ are going to need to be reinforced.
Border reinforcement will probably not be ordered but we'll likely do it anyway to ensure nobody does something stupid in their desperation. Peacekeeping duties... might happen, and if this administration orders them they'll be actual peacekeeping rather than a euphamism. I'd be worried if it did, though - that shit got expensive with the Orion Union. We're likely to welcome refugees, though we'll have to watch them for anything nefarious. I really hope we don't end up taking territory; we're stretched thin watching over what we have.
 
Does whoever it was in Romulan Intel who ordered the destruction of that cruiser who helped us with the Orion's regret it? Assuming they still live themselves, that is.

Depending on how things go and the canonicity of my omakes, the entire Tal Shiar might just be in a lot of trouble. You know the old saying in politics, "Never let a good crisis go to waste."? In a crisis like this one, politically impossible things become possible, and there are Romulans in high places who believe the Tal Shiar has been destroying their society.
 
Also, given that the Tal Shiar's job is to prevent exactly what happened, the possibility they're already fried is very high.
 
[X][SHIP1NAME] USS Ambassador
[X][SHIP1CREW] Explorer Corps

[X][SHIP2NAME] USS Enterprise
[X][SHIP2CREW] Explorer Corps
 
@Snakepit:
  • Academy
  • SR colonies
  • anti-Horizon diplo pushes
  • new or reassigned diplo task force ('counter horizon influence')

Don't think there's much PP left over after that.
(and still want to create a second Utopia Planitia. I like that type of redundancy. And the political message)
 
Well, I think we have more options for where we can actually make a second UP now, given the requirements of two major planets in the same system like the Earth-Mars pair.

Vulcan + Delta Vega
Gaen + Gaen VI may qualify
Arqueniou + Larcesis

The Qloathi home system is the newest addition and probably best bet for spreading things out. Not too much to worry about its borders on the Dawiar side, so the only risk is increased espionage from Lecarre.

Don't think we'll have the pp to this any time soon though.
 
Are we still working on the 1.5 year combat frigate design?
Question: For an emergency build (ie, 'brake in case of invasion'), with full war mobilization, what kind of build times are acceptable? Doesn't help if 100 ships get finished 4 months after unconditional surrender.
Has anyone an idea about the in-quest boundary conditions for this optmimization problem?
 
Question: For an emergency build (ie, 'brake in case of invasion'), with full war mobilization, what kind of build times are acceptable? Doesn't help if 100 ships get finished 4 months after unconditional surrender.
Has anyone an idea about the in-quest boundary conditions for this optmimization problem?
I think we basically need a gun platform with a set of warp nacelles attached. But that's something for the TBG SDB to decide.
 
fnly ppl lern goshawnar engineering best kind
*blasts goshawnar out of existence with Phaser.* Don't count on it buddy.
Adhoc vote count started by Thors_Alumni on Nov 29, 2017 at 4:40 AM, finished with 201 posts and 39 votes.
 
they do seem to be next in line for a beating, don't they? poor bastards, I feel a bit bad for how they were essentially pressganged into an interstellar war.

The impression they have been giving is that when told there was war brewing, they started shouting Me, Me! Pick Me!

Remember, they were the only Pact force at Gabriel that took no losses.
 
Now, where is a cunning Starfleet commander that can set a trap, make it obvious that they could be annihilated and then let them go(*)?
(*) because Starfleet. We don't kill people if there could be another way.
 
The impression they have been giving is that when told there was war brewing, they started shouting Me, Me! Pick Me!

Remember, they were the only Pact force at Gabriel that took no losses.
It's interesting, the goshawnar certainly know that the Federation will strike if provoked sufficiently. But their experience isn't as... direct as the Konen or the Cardassians. They certainly were at the battle of Gabriel but they got off lightly with no losses either. But they weren't the focus of that campaign in the first place.

I guess they're agitating to have their own grand battle to test their mettle against an enemy that seems capable of actually fighting.
 
Last edited:
The picture painted by the intelligence reports on the war is terrible. But I hesitate to draw too many conclusions from it. It would be much like expecting WW2 to turn out like WW1, a mistake many strategists made in real life. Rather than the country-wrecking wars we see here with the Klingons and Romulans, a war with the Federation will be about the a superpower shaking off the chains of peace. I say that because the question of if you can conquer your way from Indoria to Sol or from Okatha to Amarkia is a nonstarter. The only option our potential adversaries have is strike fast and successfully, and sue for peace while the public is reeling. Going longer than two years will fail whether you're a spoonhead or a Horizonite.

That means that Starfleet's current ships can all be expended holding out for a mere two years, because the sheer scale of industry we can pull on to replace them is astonishing. We have over 100 frigate berths, I haven't counted 2mt+ lately but I wouldn't be surprised if we had 30+. And while Starfleet's peacetime production is concentrated in Sol, our wartime production is scattered to the four corners. There's no one system that can be smashed to end our industry in a total war scenario. That means that even if you wreck two full sectors deep we're still drawing from the other half of the Federation. A grindfest like we see the Klingons and Romulans involved in is fine for us so long as it doesn't cross the Tellar sector central spine one way or the other. The public reaction and member cohesion is another matter, one that will have to be carefully considered and managed.

That said, if we were involved in a full scale war, we can't half-ass it. The multiplied budget, pulling in member berths for war production and repairs, no-prototype fast-build war designs, preparing crew reserves in advance, we better do it all.
To help put some numbers behind this statement lets look at the various Federation economies:
Name - BR - SR - Infra - Off - Enl - Tech
Andor - 90 - 65 - 3.11 - 1.2 - 2 - 2
Vulcan - 55 - 60 - 2.08 - 1.75 - 2.75 - 2.5
Tellar - 95 - 80 - 3 - 1.65 - 2.75 - 2.15
Earth - 110 - 90 - 3.7 - 2 - 2.2 - 2.2
Amarki - 265 - 255 - 2.05 - 5.25 - 9 - 6
Betazoids - 50 - 60 - 1.35 - 1.45 - 1.8 - 1.45
Caitian - 75 - 85 - 2.14 - 1.5 - 1.5 - 0.8
Rigel - 80 - 60 - 2.25 - 3.4 - 3.75 - 3.75
Apiata - 165 - 155 - 2.29 - 0.5 - 6 - 3
Indoria - 80 - 60 - 1.33 - 1.25 - 2 - 1.25
Gaeni - 65 - 85 - 2.61 - 0.75 - 1.25 - 1.75
Orions - 60 - 50 - 1.37 - 1 - 2 - 1.5
Caldonia - 70-45-1.16-1.2-1.7-1.5
Qloathi - 105 - 85 - 1.83 - 2 - 3.5 - 3.5
Seyek - 115 - 95 - 1.84 - 2.5 - 2.5 - 2.75
Members - 1480 - 1330 - ? - 29.05 - 44 - 35.62
Starfleet - 1335 - 935 - ? - 21.6 - 31.34 - 26.15
Federation - 2815 - 2265 - ? - 50.65 - 75.34 - 61.77

Now while I certainly could do an analysis for all fifteen races listed here that would take forever. Instead I'm going to base my analysis on Starfleet and the combined economies of all member races.

The first thing that jumps out at me is that Starfleet has about the same economic might as all our members combined. This makes sense since the whole point of Starfleet is to fulfill our member's space born needs so their own navel forces are going to have rather small budgets comparatively speaking.

The second is that even at current mobilization levels the Federation's economy is scary. If we bring things up to Limited Mobilization then those numbers swell to:
Name - BR - SR - Off - Enl - Tech
Members - 2220 - 1995 - 43.58 - 66 - 53.43
Starfleet - 2003 - 1403 - 32.40 - 47.01 - 39.23
Total - 4223 - 3398 - 75.98 - 113.01 - 92.66​
That's quite impressive considering it can be maintained indefinitely with no economic, though almost certainly political, repercussions.

Still those are just numbers and it can be kinda hard to grasp how impressive, or unimpressive, numbers are without something to compare them against. So lets look at how many ships we can output per year. To make things simple I'll be using just three designs (Centaur-B, Renaissance, and Excelsior-A) as they are our most common type of ship.
Peacetime Mobilization (100% income):
Members: 1.5x Excelsior-A, 5x Renaissance, 5x Centaur-B = +55.5C
Starfleet: 2x Excelsior-A, 2x Renaissance, 3x Centaur-B = +36C
Federation: 3.5x Excelsior-A, 7x Renaissance, 8x Centaur-B = +91.5C​
So we end up with a pretty Crusier heavy fleet compared to our current (1:2:5 for the Federation as a whole) fleet. Unsurpisingly the primary limiting factor for both Members and Starfleet is our Officer production. We actually end up with a surplus of 185br/365sr for Members and 405br/260sr for Starfleet. The most interesting thing is that over six years of war the Romulans lost 347C worth of ships and the Klingons 360C. Peacetime Federation can match that in just four years.

If we switch over to Limited Mobilization :
Limited Mobilization (150% income):
Members: 3x Excelsior-A, 5x Renaissance, 10x Centaur-B = +86C
Starfleet: 2.5x Excelsior-A, 4x Renaissance, 5x Centaur-B = +57.5C
Federation: 5.5x Excelsior-A, 9x Renaissance, 15x Centaur-B = +143.5C​
Well the first thing that jumps out at me is that during this last year, which has had crippling losses for both sides, the Romulans lost 114C and the Klingons 118C. So the Federation could keep up the kind of losses either side took indefinitely. In fact we'd actually be growing in overall combat.

This is important because the Klingons and Romulans are almost certainly at Total Mobilization (250% income). At that level the Federation is capable of matching all the losses the Klingons have suffered (360C) in six years in just one and a half.

Still we can't just talk about income since all those resources are useless if we don't have berths to build the ships in. Here is our distribution of Berths:
Members: 12x Excelsior Berths, 61x Renaissance and Centaur-B Berths
Starfleet: 11x Excelsior Berths, 29x Renassiance and Centaur-B Berths
Federation: 23x Excelsior Berths, 90x Renaissance and Centaur-B Berths​
Now lets look at the numbers required for our various levels of Mobilization:
Peacetime Mobilization:
Members: 6x (1.5 builds/yr x 4 years) Excelsior Berths and 27x (5 builds/yr x 3 years + 5 builds/yr x 2.25 year) Renaissance and Centaur-B Berths.
Starfleet: 8x (2 builds/yr x 4 years) Excelsior Berths and 13x (2 builds/yr x 3 years + 3 builds/yr x 2.25 year) Renaissance and Centaur-B Berths.
Federation: 14x Excelsior Berths and 40x Renaissance and Centaur-B Berths.

Limited Mobilization (-2Qtr build time):
Members: 11x (3 builds/yr x 3.5 years) Excelsior Berths and 30x (5 builds/yr x 2.5 years + 10 builds/yr x 1.75 year) Renaissance and Centaur-B Berths.
Starfleet: 9x (2.5 builds/yr x 3.5 years) Excelsior Berths and 19x (4 builds/yr x 2.5 years + 5 builds/yr x 1.75 year) Renaissance and Centaur-B Berths.
Federation: 20x Excelsior Berths and 49x Renaissance and Centaur-B Berths.

Total Mobilization (-50% build time)
Federation: 18x (9 builds/yr x 2 years) Excelsior Berths and 54x (16 builds/yr x 1.5 years + 24 x 1.25 year) Renaissance and Centaur-B Berths.​

So regardless of our level of mobilization we have more then enough Berths. Especially since this doesn't take into account the effects of HIP.
 
I like how we essentially wiped out two empires by BEING NICE TO THEM. Granted it wasn't anything intentional on our part, more of an inevitable conclusion for them once we stopped being a viable target, but think of the reputation we're going to get with the other major powers!
 
Back
Top