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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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anon_user said:
To: Admiral Hikaru Sulu
From: Vice Admiral Constance Lecras, Starfleet Intelligence
Re: Khellian-class Heavy Warbird, Preliminary Report

We have analyzed the sensor data acquired by USS Docana in her recent encounter with the Khellian-class heavy warbird IRW Karethvek in the Neutral Zone. Based on this data, we can draw a few conclusions.
1) Tactical capability superior to Ambassador: Between her four twin heavy disruptor banks and six torpedo bays, all forward, Karethvek presented a powerful main battery in her confrontation with Hammer of the Slain, sufficient to overpower an Ambassador.
2) Shield strength equivalent to Ambassador: The sensor data confirms what previous reports only suggested - the Khellian is as well-shielded as an Ambassador.

Khellian-class Heavy Warbird
C9 S? H? L9 P? D?. 2394 kt, 443m, est. 700-900 crew
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...you know what, the Romulans might have let us know this much on purpose, because I really don't want to fuck with these if we don't have to.
 
anon_user said:
To: Admiral Hikaru Sulu
From: Vice Admiral Constance Lecras, Starfleet Intelligence
Re: Khellian-class Heavy Warbird, Preliminary Report

We have analyzed the sensor data acquired by USS Docana in her recent encounter with the Khellian-class heavy warbird IRW Karethvek in the Neutral Zone. Based on this data, we can draw a few conclusions.
1) Tactical capability superior to Ambassador: Between her four twin heavy disruptor banks and six torpedo bays, all forward, Karethvek presented a powerful main battery in her confrontation with Hammer of the Slain, sufficient to overpower an Ambassador.
2) Shield strength equivalent to Ambassador: The sensor data confirms what previous reports only suggested - the Khellian is as well-shielded as an Ambassador.

Khellian-class Heavy Warbird
C9 S? H? L9 P? D?. 2394 kt, 443m, est. 700-900 crew
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Click to shrink...
Are these the ones that will all be going straight into refit after the war ends due to rushed prototyping?
 
Nix said:
Not even Human but specifically English-speaking. For example "Reich" is frequently translated as "Empire" even though it doesn't have so much as the slightest implication of an Emperor.
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Assuming you're talking about the 'Third' one, that was a 'Reich' mostly in an effort to gain legitimacy by pretending to be a successor to the earlier, monarchist ones.

Winged One said:
...you know what, the Romulans might have let us know this much on purpose, because I really don't want to fuck with these if we don't have to.
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Can't be as good in the other stats though, (Hull presumably included,) given that weight. (Armor is heavy, and my rough impression of Romulan ship design is that they heavily favor shields over hull.)
 
It's a warship, built during (and for) a particularly fraught and bloody war. It's an alarming combatant, but I suspect that not only do its non-combat stats suffer, but they will likely slow/cease production once peace rolls around again, as I suspect they'll be severely lacking in ships capable of taking roles not relevant to the war effort.
 
I actually bet that the hull for the Khellian is close to the Ambassador too. BR is set by hull and the parts of the design we can see looks to be very SR hungry. High shields, cloak, and enough warp to keep up for intercept rolls all means that the SR requirements must be dramatic.
I do suspect that the science got cut to try and make ends meet, but that might just be wishful thinking.
Deathbybunnies said:
It's a warship, built during (and for) a particularly fraught and bloody war. It's an alarming combatant, but I suspect that not only do its non-combat stats suffer, but they will likely slow/cease production once peace rolls around again, as I suspect they'll be severely lacking in ships capable of taking roles not relevant to the war effort.
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Refit to a lower combat build in exchange for more science and a side of diplomacy?
 
Deathbybunnies said:
It's a warship, built during (and for) a particularly fraught and bloody war. It's an alarming combatant, but I suspect that not only do its non-combat stats suffer, but they will likely slow/cease production once peace rolls around again, as I suspect they'll be severely lacking in ships capable of taking roles not relevant to the war effort.
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Still, in 2318 they had 9 of these under construction. Last year they had 3 in their fleet. That's a lot of very heavy warships. Hell, if those "in-fleet" 3 were outside of the 9 under construction, they could end up with 12 of these things.... 108C right there.
 
Simon_Jester said:
It depends on the associated opportunity costs, and whether or not you would walk away from Omelas.

If you would walk away from Omelas, or if the benefits of treating an entity as non-sapient are small, then it's a pretty clear choice.

If you would not walk away from Omelas, and if the benefits are large (i.e. the huge advances to computer science made possible by taking apart Data's brain), then it's still a pretty clear choice... in the opposite direction.
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Oh of course, it depends entirely on how you value the potential consequences.

Though as far as this particular quest is concerned, I do not think there exists much of a debate. After all, we must remember to be the starfleet that Councillor Stesk knows we can be. And Stesk might frown on locking anyone up in a cold and dark cellar, even if it did mean advancing computer sciences by a century or creating a species of Datas. :)
 
Briefvoice said:
Still, in 2318 they had 9 of these under construction. Last year they had 3 in their fleet. That's a lot of very heavy warships. Hell, if those "in-fleet" 3 were outside of the 9 under construction, they could end up with 12 of these things.... 108C right there.
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If they can keep up with their war losses, sure. Assuming the Romulans win (since I doubt it'll be an issue if the Klingons do) I wonder how many they're likely to have?
 
With pretty much all the other major powers fielding 2-3mt heavies, I can only wonder what the Cardassians are doing now.

Considering thier previous heavy combatant, the Lorgot, was only 1.8mt, and pretty bad to begin with, are they now going to consider building a 2mt+ replacement?

Unless of course the Cardies are committed to jeune ecole cruiser spam. But I would question the rationality of that, given thier experiences with us throwing 2mt Excelsior hammers against them during pretty much every engagement, and generally coming out the better for it.

I would have thought by now there would be loud voices in Central Command demanding thier own modern heavy combatant to counter.
 
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Ato said:
With pretty much all the other major powers fielding 2-3mt heavies, I can only wonder what the Cardassians are doing now.

Considering thier previous heavy combatant, the Lorgot, was only 1.8mt, and pretty bad to begin with, are they now going to consider building a 2mt+ replacement?

Unless of course the Cardies are committed to jeune ecole cruiser spam. But I would question the rationality of that, given thier experiences with us throwing 2mt Excelsior hammers against them during pretty much every engagement, and generally coming out the better for it.

I would have thought by now there would be loud voices in Central Command demanding thier own modern heavy combatant to counter.
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They have a prototype "Tolkor" class capital ship under construction. So there you go.
 
Gnarker said:
Assuming you're talking about the 'Third' one, that was a 'Reich' mostly in an effort to gain legitimacy by pretending to be a successor to the earlier, monarchist ones.
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No, I'm not. I'm talking about the German language. Reich does not imply any Emperor, if you want to talk specifically about the sort of Empire that does have an Emperor you need to say Kaiserreich. Likewise the word for Kingdom is Königreich. France has always been called "Frankreich" even though it only had an Emperor for two short periods in the 19th century. You could argue that it implies an independent monarch of some sort, whether Emperor, King, Khan, Pharaoh or otherwise, but even that case isn't completely clear since the official name of Germany during the entirely democratic Weimar Republic continued to be "Deutsches Reich", and the only historical state that was otherwise clearly fit to be called a Reich but wasn't a monarchy was the Roman Republic, which is called a Reich (using Republik and Kaiserreich as the terms to distinguish republic and empire).
 
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2320.Q2 - Steering Committee
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    • 2320.Q2

    Starfleet Intelligence Command - Steering Committee

    Admiral,

    Match day, Admiral Sulu! Quite a fiercely contested one, too. I think we're both aware that the President has been looking on the actions and results Starfleet has handed her for her first quarter in office with an expression by parts stunned and unamused. No new coach bounce, I'm afraid to say. The Empress Hayant is no more, but our choice to attack drew no applause from the bleachers. More of a grim resignation than anything resembling enthusiasm, especially with the loss of the USS Kumari with all hands, a ship that held nearly as much coinage in Andorian society as the Enterprise does in wider Federation society.

    For our own part, I'm pleased with the actions of the Intel teams during this action - they met my expectations and took advantage of such opportunities came their way, and supported the task forces hunting the Eternal Empire with aplomb.

    Moving around the grounds, however, we are continuing to get a better picture of the state of the Romulan and Klingon Empires in their interminable war. Both sides are nearly out on their feet. Civil unrest is developing in Romulan space, and economic strain is building on each side. We have a suspicion that the Klingon economy is carrying a much greater knock than first revealed courtesy of a period of rampant Romulan raiding. I have directed our embassy staff to start profiling and identifying possible contact points for future mediation attempts.


    Dutifully,
    Vice Admiral Constance Lecras, Director

    ==========================

    [Remember, as always, this vote is non-plan, just vote the options you want to see]

    (Pick Two Cardassian Tactical Reports due to Tier 2 Analysis, bonus rolled passed, a third option may be picked)
    [ ][CARD] Cardassian Ship Analysis Report - Write in class
    [ ][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
    [ ][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)
    [ ][CARD] Cardassian Fleet Strength Report

    (Pick One Romulan Tactical Report)
    [ ][ROM] Romulan Ship Analysis Report - Write in
    [ ][ROM] Romulan Shipbuilding Report
    [ ][ROM] Romulan Shipyard Report
    [ ][ROM] Romulan Fleet Strength Report

    (Pick One Free Klingon Tactical Report - Bonus roll passed, two may be picked)
    [ ][KLI] Klingon Ship Analysis Report - Write in
    [ ][KLI] Klingon Shipbuilding Report
    [ ][KLI] Klingon Shipyard Report
    [ ][KLI] Klingon Fleet Strength Report

    (Pick Two Free Horizon Tactical Report - Listening Post roll - failed)
    [ ][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Write in
    [ ][HOH] Horizon Shipbuilding Report
    [ ][HOH] Horizon Shipyard Report
    [ ][HOH] Horizon Fleet Strength Report
    [ ][HOH] Horizon Diplomatic Posture Report

    (Pick one free ISC Report)
    [ ][ISC] ISC Report Write In

    (PIck up to six General Intel Reports)
    [ ][REPORT] What would you like to see reported on?
    [ ][REPORT] Romulan Diplomatic Posture Report
    [ ][REPORT] Klingon Diplomatic Posture Report
    [ ][REPORT] Cardassian Diplomatic Posture Report
    [ ][REPORT] Horizon Diplomatic Posture Report
    [ ][REPORT] <Any> Diplomatic Posture Report

    [ ][REPORT] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
    [ ][REPORT] <Any> Fleet Strength Report

    [ ][REPORT] Ship Analysis Report: <Write in Ship to try to get profile>
    [ ][REPORT] Shipyard Activity Report for: <Write in Power to get current build details and possibly resource levels>

    [ ][REPORT] <Any> Tactics Report (2% combat bonus vs this fleet for 12months)

    [ ][REPORT] GBZ: Pick a faction to gain an estimate of fleet strength in the GBZ
    [ ][REPORT] GBZ: Determine what projects other factions are up to

    [ ][REPORT] Write in other Question
    (QM/N: As always, bear in mind what SI will be able to access or determine)



    Member World Coordination Department

    Commenced:

    Tellar - 2 x Refit [Centaur-B]
    Human - Refit [Centaur-B]
    Amarkian - 2 x Refit [Centaur-B]
    Betazoid - 2 Centaur-B [NCC-2138, NCC-2139]

    Indorian - 1 Centaur-B [NCC-2141]
    Orion - Betazoid Centaur-B [NCC-2140]
    Caldonian - 1 Centaur-B [NCC-2142]
    STO - 1 Constrictor [NCC-4811], 2 Arquila Leb Hoiathi [NCC-4713, NCC-4714]
     
  • Threadmarks
    • [x][CARD] Cardassian Ship Analysis Report - Kapit Frigate

    [x][CARD] Cardassian Ship Analysis Report – Tolkor Capital

    [x][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months

    [x][ROM] Romulan Shipbuilding Report

    [x][KLI] Klingon Fleet Strength Report

    [x][KLI] Klingon Ship Analysis Report - K'Vort Cruiser

    [x][HOH] Horizon Shipbuilding Report

    [x][HOH] Horizon Diplomatic Posture Report

    [x][ISC] Ship Analysis Report – Guardian Cruisers

    [x][REPORT] GBZ: Determine what projects other factions are up to

    [x][REPORT] Status/Progress of Klingon-Romulan War

    [x][REPORT] Klingon Diplomatic Posture Report

    [x][REPORT] Strengths/weaknesses of Imelak bio-technology

    [x][REPORT] Imelak Fleet Strength Report


    [x][REPORT] Hishmeri Septs Diplomatic Posture Report
     
    [X][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
    [X][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)
    [X][CARD] Cardassian Fleet Strength Report
    [X][ROM] Romulan Ship Analysis Report - Khellian-class Heavy Warbird
    [X][KLI] Klingon Shipbuilding Report
    [X][KLI] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
    [X][HOH] Horizon Diplomatic Posture Report
    [X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Scientist-class science cruiser
    [X][ISC] ISC Diplomatic Posture Report
    [X][REPORT] GBZ: Determine what projects other factions are up to
    [X][REPORT] Status/Progress of Klingon-Romulan War
    [X][REPORT] Klingon Empire War Weariness
    [X][REPORT] Romulan Empire War Weariness
    [X][REPORT] Strengths/weaknesses of Imelak bio-technology
    [X][REPORT] Hishmeri Septs Diplomatic Posture Report
     
    Gnarker said:
    Assuming you're talking about the 'Third' one, that was a 'Reich' mostly in an effort to gain legitimacy by pretending to be a successor to the earlier, monarchist ones.



    Can't be as good in the other stats though, (Hull presumably included,) given that weight. (Armor is heavy, and my rough impression of Romulan ship design is that they heavily favor shields over hull.)
    Click to expand...
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    we'd need to know if they cut too many corners to get it operational during the war. might have reliability and/or some other glitches.
     
    [X][CARD] Cardassian Ship Analysis Report - Kapit Frigate
    [X][CARD] Cardassian Ship Analysis Report – Tolkor Capital
    [X][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)

    We got the fleet strength/shipbuilding report last year, so this is a good year to double-down on the new ship types that are currently in prototype.

    [X][ROM] Romulan Shipbuilding Report

    I know the shipyards report is much older, but frankly I think the Shipbuilding report is more important in tracking their strength at the moment, because they're building all the ships they possibly can.

    [X][KLI] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
    [X][KLI] Klingon Ship Analysis Report - K'Vort Cruiser

    Current Fleet Strength is three years stale. We got the capital ship stats already, so it's tie for the cruiser.

    [X][HOH] Horizon Shipbuilding Report
    [X][HOH] Horizon Diplomatic Posture Report

    I know we got a diplomatic posture report last year, but frankly with diplomacy as the HoH's primary weapon, I think we should check on these guys nearly every year if we can.

    [X][ISC] Ship Analysis Report – Guardian Cruisers

    Per the fleet strength report we got last year, they have 6 Pathfinder Heavy Explorers and 34 Guardian Cruisers. I think knowing the Guardian Cruiser stats is more important.

    [X][REPORT] GBZ: Determine what projects other factions are up to
    [X][REPORT] Status/Progress of Klingon-Romulan War
    [X][REPORT] Klingon Diplomatic Posture Report
    [X][REPORT] Strengths/weaknesses of Imelak bio-technology
    [X][REPORT] Imelak Fleet Strength Report
    [X][REPORT] Hishmeri Septs Diplomatic Posture Report
     
    OneirosTheWriter said:
    Moving around the grounds, however, we are continuing to get a better picture of the state of the Romulan and Klingon Empires in their interminable war. Both sides are nearly out on their feet. Civil unrest is developing in Romulan space, and economic strain is building on each side. We have a suspicion that the Klingon economy is carrying a much greater knock than first revealed courtesy of a period of rampant Romulan raiding. I have directed our embassy staff to start profiling and identifying possible contact points for future mediation attempts.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Very interesting! Looks like we got our war weariness info without a report, and there's a possibility for a mediation attempt.

    Member World Coordination Department

    Commenced:

    Tellar - 2 x Refit [Centaur-B]
    Human - Refit [Centaur-B]
    Amarkian - 2 x Refit [Centaur-B]
    Betazoid - 2 Centaur-B [NCC-2138, NCC-2139]

    Indorian - 1 Centaur-B [NCC-2141]
    Orion - Betazoid Centaur-B [NCC-2140]
    Caldonian - 1 Centaur-B [NCC-2142]
    STO - 1 Constrictor [NCC-4811], 2 Arquila Leb Hoiathi [NCC-4713, NCC-4714]
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Look at all those Centaur-Bs! We advised the Betazoids to wait on them, and now they're building them. In fact, they're building so many they had to contract work out to the Orions.
     
    [X][CARD] Cardassian Ship Analysis Report - Kapit Frigate
    [X][CARD] Cardassian Ship Analysis Report – Tolkor Capital
    [X][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)

    [X][ROM] Romulan Shipbuilding Report

    [X][KLI] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
    [X][KLI] Klingon Ship Analysis Report - K'Vort Cruiser

    [X][HOH] Horizon Shipbuilding Report
    [X][HOH] Horizon Diplomatic Posture Report

    [X][ISC] ISC Diplomatic Posture Report

    [X][REPORT] GBZ: Determine what projects other factions are up to
    [X][REPORT] Status/Progress of Klingon-Romulan War
    [X][REPORT] Klingon Diplomatic Posture Report
    [X][REPORT] Strengths/weaknesses of Imelak bio-technology
    [X][REPORT] Imelak Fleet Strength Report
    [X][REPORT] Hishmeri Septs Diplomatic Posture Report
     
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    [X][CARD] Cardassian Ship Analysis Report - Tolkor Capital
    [X][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
    [x][CARD] Cardassian Ship Analysis Report - Kapit Frigate

    [x][ROM] Romulan Shipbuilding Report

    [x][KLI] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
    [x][KLI] Klingon Ship Analysis Report - K'Vort Cruiser

    [X][HOH] Horizon Shipbuilding Report
    [X][HOH] Horizon Fleet Strength Report

    [x][ISC] Ship Analysis Report – Pathfinder Capital

    [x][REPORT] Klingon Diplomatic Posture Report
    [x][REPORT] Cardassian Logistics and Deployment Requirements
    [X][REPORT] Romulan Diplomatic Posture Report
    [X][REPORT] Status/Progress of Klingon-Romulan War
    [X][REPORT] GBZ: Determine what projects other factions are up to
    [X][REPORT] Ship Analysis Report - Guardian Cruiser
     
    [X][CARD] Cardassian Shipbuilding Report
    [X][CARD] Cardassian Tactics Report (Gain +5% combat vs Cardassian fleets for the next 12 months)
    [X][CARD] Cardassian Fleet Strength Report
    [X][ROM] Romulan Ship Analysis Report - Khellian-class Heavy Warbird
    [X][KLI] Klingon Shipbuilding Report
    [X][KLI] Klingon Fleet Strength Report
    [X][HOH] Horizon Diplomatic Posture Report
    [X][HOH] Horizon Ship Analysis Report - Scientist-class science cruiser
    [X][ISC] ISC Diplomatic Posture Report
    [X][REPORT] GBZ: Determine what projects other factions are up to
    [X][REPORT] Status/Progress of Klingon-Romulan War
    [X][REPORT] Klingon Empire War Weariness
    [X][REPORT] Romulan Empire War Weariness
    [X][REPORT] Strengths/weaknesses of Imelak bio-technology
    [X][REPORT] Hishmeri Septs Diplomatic Posture Report
     
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