From my POV averting a war in the long run run w.r.t Cardassia requires us to either reach a point where they know they can't win any war against us, or for them to decide that war is just a bad idea overall, like if there was substantial trade between the Fed and Cardassia.
Well one of those we collapsed a mountain on, and the other we cored out with phasers and then torpedoed. Also it was underwater, so presumably once we blew up the shields the whole base got flooded.
"Eh. A big team of forensic archaeologists with tractor beams and no end of budget could learn a lot from the pieces of those bases. But don't expect to get any impressive technology from the ruins; it'd probably be faster to invent it all ourselves."
"Eh. A big team of forensic archaeologists with tractor beams and no end of budget could learn a lot from the pieces of those bases. But don't expect to get any impressive technology from the ruins; it'd probably be faster to invent it all ourselves."
You know there's a certain part of me that wonders if we actually could pick up stuff like this with Smash-and-Grab archeology or Inner Sphere-style Combat Salvage, with people grabbing random shiny things before they blow it all up or phasering off somebody's nacelle and sending it back to be studied. I can't imagine that the one Starfleet actually raided, nobody had the presence of mind to grab anything they could carry on the way out. Even the drones that blow themselves apart still leave metallic wreckage, and if their metallurgy is better than ours, we can learn from that.
"Eh. A big team of forensic archaeologists with tractor beams and no end of budget could learn a lot from the pieces of those bases. But don't expect to get any impressive technology from the ruins; it'd probably be faster to invent it all ourselves."
You know there's a certain part of me that wonders if we actually could pick up stuff like this with Smash-and-Grab archeology or Inner Sphere-style Combat Salvage, with people grabbing random shiny things before they blow it all up or phasering off somebody's nacelle and sending it back to be studied. I can't imagine that the one Starfleet actually raided, nobody had the presence of mind to grab anything they could carry on the way out. Even the drones that blow themselves apart still leave metallic wreckage, and if their metallurgy is better than ours, we can learn from that.
"You keep hoping; I don't expect to get that lucky."
u know there's a certain part of me that wonders if we actually could pick up stuff like this with Smash-and-Grab archeology or Inner Sphere-style Combat Salvage, with people grabbing random shiny things before they blow it all up or phasering off somebody's nacelle and sending it back to be studied.
Liberal use of scuttling charges on the most sensitive components could make that tricky. Stuff like computers and exotic-physics systems may be quite comprehensively fried when we get our hands on it. Which isn't to say we'd learn nothing... but imagine how hard it would be for a bunch of 1910 auto mechanics to learn much from taking apart the slagged wreck of a 1960 engine block that had been reduced to half-molten scrap by thermite charges.
I can't imagine that the one Starfleet actually raided, nobody had the presence of mind to grab anything they could carry on the way out. Even the drones that blow themselves apart still leave metallic wreckage, and if their metallurgy is better than ours, we can learn from that.
A bit. It's not like we don't have plenty of samples of materials more advanced than our current science, given how much time our explorers spend poking around ancient ruins. Including those of the Orions, even!
Trouble is, knowing that the ancients had better metals may not give insight into how they were made..
While probably true of the massively advanced Tkon Toilet Technology, the Orion materials here are much closer to ours. It's the difference between being made with tech we haven't even conceived of and made with tech that we can describe the operation of and may even have access to at the laboratory scale.
I really wish there was an option to force negotiation with the Cardassians. I'd like to go with close the straits until Cardassians negotiate with us. Getting them to recognize a sector or two of the Gabriel Expanse as Federation Territory, formally acknowleding Hayant as a terrorist with shoot on sight orders, something like that.
Main reason I'm not going for closing them is because I don't want Hayant making an alliance with the Cardassians. I could easily see them turning on her once they have troops on her ships, or the Empress handing out some tech so they can jump a decade forward in research. If we had the Abassadors in play, maybe, but I'm content to let things stew for now, instead of looking for more trouble before we can up our game.
I'm going with the middle option. We always have the option to change our minds later on, and we might be able to renegotiate with the Cardassians later on when we don't have a bloodthirsty green chick running around. If it escalates, at least it will be contained.
[X ][THEMIS] Open the Straits of Themis to limited commerce. Set up an Access Zone, patrolled by Starfleet. (This will act as another border zone, and will have a garrison requirement). In exchange, Cardassia must accept economic concessions (+50 BR/SR a year, limited trade open). Hawks angry, Expansionists annoyed (-26 pp). Cardassia will be unhappy, but may accept this arrangement.
[x][THEMIS] Open the Straits of Themis to limited commerce. Set up an Access Zone, patrolled by Starfleet. (This will act as another border zone, and will have a garrison requirement). In exchange, Cardassia must accept economic concessions (+50 BR/SR a year, limited trade open). Hawks angry, Expansionists annoyed (-26 pp). Cardassia will be unhappy, but may accept this arrangement.
[x][THEMIS] Open the Straits of Themis to limited commerce. Set up an Access Zone, patrolled by Starfleet. (This will act as another border zone, and will have a garrison requirement). In exchange, Cardassia must accept economic concessions (+50 BR/SR a year, limited trade open). Hawks angry, Expansionists annoyed (-26 pp). Cardassia will be unhappy, but may accept this arrangement.
Well one of those we collapsed a mountain on, and the other we cored out with phasers and then torpedoed. Also it was underwater, so presumably once we blew up the shields the whole base got flooded.
Yeah, sure, come on in and trade with us. Just make sure to behave, okay?
Adhoc vote count started by UbeOne on Oct 19, 2017 at 8:44 AM, finished with 121 posts and 51 votes.
[X][THEMIS] Open the Straits of Themis to limited commerce. Set up an Access Zone, patrolled by Starfleet. (This will act as another border zone, and will have a garrison requirement). In exchange, Cardassia must accept economic concessions (+50 BR/SR a year, limited trade open). Hawks angry, Expansionists annoyed (-26 pp). Cardassia will be unhappy, but may accept this arrangement.
[X][THEMIS] Close the Straits of Themis entirely. Pacifists and Mercantilists upset (-19 pp), Cardassians livid. (Risk of alliance with Hayant, risk of escalation in GBZ)
[X][THEMIS] Open the Straits of Themis to limited commerce. Set up an Access Zone, rely on the member fleets to patrol it. (There will not be a garrison requirement). In exchange, Cardassia must accept economic concessions (+25 BR/SR a year each to Seyek and Qloathi, limited trade open). Hawks and Expansionists angry (-35 pp). Cardassia will accept this arrangement.
[X][THEMIS] Open the Straits of Themis to limited commerce. Set up an Access Zone, patrolled by Starfleet. (This will act as another border zone, and will have a garrison requirement). In exchange, Cardassia must accept economic concessions (+50 BR/SR a year, limited trade open). Hawks angry, Expansionists annoyed (-26 pp). Cardassia will be unhappy, but may accept this arrangement.
2320.Q1
You've found yourself taking trips to Mars to watch the Ambassadors continue to mature in their duranium cradles. Their new-model nacelles have arrived, creating a small spectacle when a it was noted that Yoyodyne used different units of measure during their development cycle, and their plasma injectors expected warp plasma provided at a different frequency. Rear Admiral Leslie and Commodore Henderson went to Yododyne personally to haul the R&D team back to Utopia Planitia to resolve that matter. But that is only a distraction from your real interest. The ship itself is beautiful. The new Enterprise almost calls to you. Oh, she isn't as sleek as the Excelsior you used to command. She has bulk, heft, there is a strength behind her. But there is that same feeling of something transformational to her. The Ambassadors are the first wave of a new generation. Knowing this is your last year in this job, you feel a little regret that you will not take them into the future. But at the same time, you feel proud to be able to hand a project like this to your successor.
USS Discovery, Excelsior-A-class Explorer (NCC-2027) @ 40 Eridani A Berth A
- Crewed from Standard Crew, 6 Officer, 5 Enlisted, 5 Technician
USS Zarayet, Excelsior-A-class Explorer (NCC-2028) @ 40 Eridani A Berth B
- Crewed from Standard Crew, 6 Officer, 5 Enlisted, 5 Technician
USS Lakota, Excelsior-A-class Explorer (NCC-2029) @ Utopia Planitia Berth A
- Crewed from Standard Crew, 6 Officer, 5 Enlisted, 5 Technician
USS Frontier, Excelsior-A-class Explorer (NCC-2030) @ 40 Eridani A Berth A
- Crewed from Standard Crew, 6 Officer, 5 Enlisted, 5 Technician
Renaissance-class Cruiser (NCC-2624) @ 40 Eridani Berth 1
- Crewed from Standard Crew, 3 Officer, 5 Enlisted, 3 Technician
3 Centaur-As @ Utopia Planitia
- Crewed from Standard Crew, 3 Officer, 6 Enlisted, 6 Technician
==========================
Starfleet Shipyard Operations Command Report
Ships Commissioned:
None
Refits Completed:
USS Atuin, Excelsior-A, NCC-2014
USS S'harien, Excelsior-A, NCC-2008
Repairs Completed:
USS Spirit, Excelsior-A, NCC-2025
==========================
[ ][BUILD] Submit a Build Plan
To make a plan, pick a ship you would like to build and put it in one of the available berths that can handle the mass. All ships have a price in materials and time that are noted in the square brackets after the word "Cost". You can now build Excelsiors in any of the large berths at San Francisco, 40 Eridani A, Ana Font, Utopia Planitia, Intazzi, or Lor'Vela shipyards, while the small berths can make all of the others.
The amount of resources you have right now are listed below, as are the classes you can make, and the shipyards you have available.
-
Up to 2 Cargo Ships may be scheduled for 2yr builds for free, with each additional costing 5pp
Up to 1 Freighter may be scheduled for 3yr builds for free, with each additional costing 5pp
Up to 1 concurrent Super-freighter may be scheduled for 4yr builds for free, with each additional costing 10pp (you have 1 underway)
Up to 3 concurrent Hospital Ships may be scheduled for 3yr for free, with each additional costing 5pp
Active Starfleet Shipyards
San Francisco Fleet Yards - one (1) large 3mt Berth, two (2) small 1mt Berths
40 Eridani A Shipyards [Vulcan] - two (2) large 3mt Berths, two (2) small 1mt Berths
Ana Font Shipyard [Tellar] - one (1) large 2.5mt Berth, one (1) small 1mt Berth
Lor'Vela Orbital Construction Facility [Andor] - one (1) large 2.5mt Berth, one (1) small 1mt Berth
Utopia Planitia Shipyard - five (3) large 3mt Berths, one (1) medium 2mt Berth, five (3) small 1mt Berths
Oreasa Starfleet Yards - two (2) small 1mt Berth
Intazzi Shipyard - one (1) large 3mt Berth, one (1) small 1mt Berth
Current Resource Stockpile
1762 Bulk Resources
1021 Special Resources
358 Political Will
492 Research Points
Current Personnel Pool
Standard Starfleet: 32.6 Officer, 51.47 Enlisted, 67.55 Techs
Explorer Corps: 17.5 Officer, 18.4 Enlisted, 14.5 Techs
ETC = Estimated Time of Commissioning. The bays are clear and new ships can be created as of this date. Crews are deducted 1 Year before Commissioning date to begin specific training and shakedown work.
Assignments
None
Available Non-obsolete Ship Classes Explorers/Cruisers Excelsior 2287-Now [511m, 2.3m t]
UP Berth A (3mt) – Building Excelsior-A using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus and 1qt off build time from Admiral Sirvk bonus. (ETC 2321.Q1)
UP Berth B (3mt) – Building Ambassador prototype as dual build using Chen's bonus. (ETC 2321.Q4)
UP Berth C (3mt) – Building Excelsior-A using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus and 1qt off build time from Admiral Sirvk bonus. (ETC 2321.Q1)
UP Berth D (3mt) – Building Ambassador prototype as dual build using Chen's bonus. (ETC 2321.Q4)
UP Berth E (3mt) – Building Starfleet Hospital Ship (ETC 2321.Q2)
UP Berth Z (2mt) – Building Centaur-A using using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus. (ETC 2321.Q2)
UP Berth Y (2mt) – Building Centaur-A using using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus. (ETC 2321.Q2)
UP Berth 1 (1mt) – Building Renaissance using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus. (ETC 2322.Q1)
UP Berth 2 (1mt) - Building Renaissance using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus. (ETC 2322.Q1)
UP Berth 3 (1mt) – Berth free 2320.Q4. In 2320.Q4 commence refit of just launched UP Berth 3 Centaur-A to Centaur-B. (ETC 2321.Q4)
UP Berth 4 (1mt) – Berth free 2320.Q4. In 2320.Q4 commence refit of just launched UP Berth 4 Centaur-A to Centaur-B. (ETC 2321.Q4)
UP Berth 5 (1mt) – Berth free 2320.Q4. In 2320.Q4 commence refit of just launched UP Berth 5 Centaur-A to Centaur-B. (ETC 2321.Q4)
Plan B holds off on one of the Centaur-Bs for a Freighter
UP Berth A (3mt) – Building Excelsior-A using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus and 1qt off build time from Admiral Sirvk bonus. (ETC 2321.Q1)
UP Berth B (3mt) – Building Ambassador prototype as dual build using Chen's bonus. (ETC 2321.Q4)
UP Berth C (3mt) – Building Excelsior-A using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus and 1qt off build time from Admiral Sirvk bonus. (ETC 2321.Q1)
UP Berth D (3mt) – Building Ambassador prototype as dual build using Chen's bonus. (ETC 2321.Q4)
UP Berth E (3mt) – Building Starfleet Hospital Ship (ETC 2321.Q2)
UP Berth Z (2mt) – Building Centaur-A using using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus. (ETC 2321.Q2)
UP Berth Y (2mt) – Building Centaur-A using using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus. (ETC 2321.Q2)
UP Berth 1 (1mt) – Building Renaissance using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus. (ETC 2322.Q1)
UP Berth 2 (1mt) - Building Renaissance using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus. (ETC 2322.Q1)
UP Berth 3 (1mt) – Berth free 2320.Q4. In 2320.Q4 commence refit of just launched UP Berth 3 Centaur-A to Centaur-B. (ETC 2321.Q4)
UP Berth 4 (1mt) – Berth free 2320.Q4. In 2320.Q4 commence refit of just launched UP Berth 4 Centaur-A to Centaur-B. (ETC 2321.Q4)
UP Berth 5 (1mt) – Berth free 2320.Q4. In 2320.Q4 commence refit of just launched UP Berth 5 Centaur-A to Centaur-B. (ETC 2321.Q4)
Plan C starts moving from Centaur-Bs to Renaissances
UP Berth A (3mt) – Building Excelsior-A using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus and 1qt off build time from Admiral Sirvk bonus. (ETC 2321.Q1)
UP Berth B (3mt) – Building Ambassador prototype as dual build using Chen's bonus. (ETC 2321.Q4)
UP Berth C (3mt) – Building Excelsior-A using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus and 1qt off build time from Admiral Sirvk bonus. (ETC 2321.Q1)
UP Berth D (3mt) – Building Ambassador prototype as dual build using Chen's bonus. (ETC 2321.Q4)
UP Berth E (3mt) – Building Starfleet Hospital Ship (ETC 2321.Q2)
UP Berth Z (2mt) – Building Centaur-A using using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus. (ETC 2321.Q2)
UP Berth Y (2mt) – Building Centaur-A using using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus. (ETC 2321.Q2)
UP Berth 1 (1mt) – Building Renaissance using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus. (ETC 2322.Q1)
UP Berth 2 (1mt) - Building Renaissance using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus. (ETC 2322.Q1)
UP Berth 3 (1mt) – Berth free 2320.Q4. In 2320.Q4 commence refit of just launched UP Berth 3 Centaur-A to Centaur-B. (ETC 2321.Q4)
UP Berth 4 (1mt) – Berth free 2320.Q4. In 2320.Q4 commence refit of just launched UP Berth 4 Centaur-A to Centaur-B. (ETC 2321.Q4)
UP Berth 5 (1mt) – Berth free 2320.Q4. In 2320.Q4 commence refit of just launched UP Berth 5 Centaur-A to Centaur-B. (ETC 2321.Q4)
Plan D dumps the freighter in return for another Renaissance
UP Berth A (3mt) – Building Excelsior-A using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus and 1qt off build time from Admiral Sirvk bonus. (ETC 2321.Q1)
UP Berth B (3mt) – Building Ambassador prototype as dual build using Chen's bonus. (ETC 2321.Q4)
UP Berth C (3mt) – Building Excelsior-A using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus and 1qt off build time from Admiral Sirvk bonus. (ETC 2321.Q1)
UP Berth D (3mt) – Building Ambassador prototype as dual build using Chen's bonus. (ETC 2321.Q4)
UP Berth E (3mt) – Building Starfleet Hospital Ship (ETC 2321.Q2)
UP Berth Z (2mt) – Building Centaur-A using using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus. (ETC 2321.Q2)
UP Berth Y (2mt) – Building Centaur-A using using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus. (ETC 2321.Q2)
UP Berth 1 (1mt) – Building Renaissance using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus. (ETC 2322.Q1)
UP Berth 2 (1mt) - Building Renaissance using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus. (ETC 2322.Q1)
UP Berth 3 (1mt) – Berth free 2320.Q4. In 2320.Q4 commence refit of just launched UP Berth 3 Centaur-A to Centaur-B. (ETC 2321.Q4)
UP Berth 4 (1mt) – Berth free 2320.Q4. In 2320.Q4 commence refit of just launched UP Berth 4 Centaur-A to Centaur-B. (ETC 2321.Q4)
UP Berth 5 (1mt) – Berth free 2320.Q4. In 2320.Q4 commence refit of just launched UP Berth 5 Centaur-A to Centaur-B. (ETC 2321.Q4)
Finally Plan E goes for maximum Renaissances and a freighter.
UP Berth A (3mt) – Building Excelsior-A using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus and 1qt off build time from Admiral Sirvk bonus. (ETC 2321.Q1)
UP Berth B (3mt) – Building Ambassador prototype as dual build using Chen's bonus. (ETC 2321.Q4)
UP Berth C (3mt) – Building Excelsior-A using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus and 1qt off build time from Admiral Sirvk bonus. (ETC 2321.Q1)
UP Berth D (3mt) – Building Ambassador prototype as dual build using Chen's bonus. (ETC 2321.Q4)
UP Berth E (3mt) – Building Starfleet Hospital Ship (ETC 2321.Q2)
UP Berth Z (2mt) – Building Centaur-A using using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus. (ETC 2321.Q2)
UP Berth Y (2mt) – Building Centaur-A using using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus. (ETC 2321.Q2)
UP Berth 1 (1mt) – Building Renaissance using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus. (ETC 2322.Q1)
UP Berth 2 (1mt) - Building Renaissance using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus. (ETC 2322.Q1)
UP Berth 3 (1mt) – Berth free 2320.Q4. In 2320.Q4 commence refit of just launched UP Berth 3 Centaur-A to Centaur-B. (ETC 2321.Q4)
UP Berth 4 (1mt) – Berth free 2320.Q4. In 2320.Q4 commence refit of just launched UP Berth 4 Centaur-A to Centaur-B. (ETC 2321.Q4)
UP Berth 5 (1mt) – Berth free 2320.Q4. In 2320.Q4 commence refit of just launched UP Berth 5 Centaur-A to Centaur-B. (ETC 2321.Q4)
UP Berth A (3mt) – Building Excelsior-A using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus and 1qt off build time from Admiral Sirvk bonus. (ETC 2321.Q1)
UP Berth B (3mt) – Building Ambassador prototype as dual build using Chen's bonus. (ETC 2321.Q4)
UP Berth C (3mt) – Building Excelsior-A using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus and 1qt off build time from Admiral Sirvk bonus. (ETC 2321.Q1)
UP Berth D (3mt) – Building Ambassador prototype as dual build using Chen's bonus. (ETC 2321.Q4)
UP Berth E (3mt) – Building Starfleet Hospital Ship (ETC 2321.Q2)
UP Berth Z (2mt) – Building Centaur-A using using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus. (ETC 2321.Q2)
UP Berth Y (2mt) – Building Centaur-A using using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus. (ETC 2321.Q2)
UP Berth 1 (1mt) – Building Renaissance using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus. (ETC 2322.Q1)
UP Berth 2 (1mt) - Building Renaissance using 'parallel construction' industrial park bonus. (ETC 2322.Q1)
UP Berth 3 (1mt) – Berth free 2320.Q4. In 2320.Q4 commence refit of just launched UP Berth 3 Centaur-A to Centaur-B. (ETC 2321.Q4)
UP Berth 4 (1mt) – Berth free 2320.Q4. In 2320.Q4 commence refit of just launched UP Berth 4 Centaur-A to Centaur-B. (ETC 2321.Q4)
UP Berth 5 (1mt) – Berth free 2320.Q4. In 2320.Q4 commence refit of just launched UP Berth 5 Centaur-A to Centaur-B. (ETC 2321.Q4)
The Orions unsurprisingly make out like bandits on the export market, but the members in general are showing a pretty good output this year. Also the Amarki commissioning their new frigates?