Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

Hmm, simple and utilitarian doesn't necessarily mean bad, especially since a lot of our other arts aren't simple.

If something is common, it's usually because it's useful enough that everyone wants it after all.
 
Hmm, simple and utilitarian doesn't necessarily mean bad, especially since a lot of our other arts aren't simple.

If something is common, it's usually because it's useful enough that everyone wants it after all.

No, nothing wrong with utilitarian. There's just not really a choice that catches me in a "I'd really like to see how this works" like Ashen Shadow did, and I don't really have that much of a mechanical preference between the choices of more offense, more defense and more mobility for Ling Qi at present (maybe a touch less for the defense option).
 
Nothing wrong with utilitarian, but the fact that it maxes out at late Yellow means that we will be outgrowing that art sometime in Green. Not like that is necessarily a problem - by that point we will have enough interesting things to train as it is, and if/when we do want to "trade up", we should be at a point in our cultivation where we are much less rushed and can afford the extra actions. But I admit that it is slightly disappointing to be working towards a known dead end.
 
Nothing wrong with utilitarian, but the fact that it maxes out at late Yellow means that we will be outgrowing that art sometime in Green. Not like that is necessarily a problem - by that point we will have enough interesting things to train as it is, and if/when we do want to "trade up", we should be at a point in our cultivation where we are much less rushed and can afford the extra actions. But I admit that it is slightly disappointing to be working towards a known dead end.

For me it is a sort of gamble. We are using inherently less valuable actions now, actions outside of the inner sect, for potential more valuable actions later, actions in the inner sect.

As long as the actions taken on zb help us gain value and that value gained helps us get in to the inner sect I will be happy.
 
To be honest, sheer utility is something that our toolbox doesn't directly carry, so I'm fine with getting a pure utility power to help round us out and supplement our other abilities.

And by Green, I suspect we're going to be in a position where we'll be creating our own Arts instead of having to purely rely on publicly available archives. Good Fortune still remains good fortune, but Arts beyond the Second and early Third Realm seem to be something that nobody hands out unless you're committed to their camp.
 
We're going to have to replace all our arts at green, and honestly it's going be a good opportunity to try to retool our build into something more coherent.

Our build isn't bad. We've got quite a nice bard support build. But a lot of it is pretty scattershot. We have music - which we haven't really been able to fully develop yet (hopefully we'll have the time then). Music conflicts with archery - switching to a more flying blades based build at green would make sense if we wanted to keep the bard build.

Elementally we're starting to get a bit too spread out, and we lack a clear theme. Right now it's like we're trying to run darkness-wind-water-wood, and it feels kinda unfocused.

Dark-wind-water would give the imagery of the dark blizzard that takes the life from lost travellers, and would work quite well as a build.

Dark-wood-water is a perfectly legitimate poison build. It just happens to be Meizhen's already, so meh.

Dark-wood-wind is just kind of weird. I don't really know how that synergises... Maybe pollen? Toxic spores?

Honestly, Zhengui has caused a lot of problems for us here. If he'd been water/fire instead, and we'd gotten, say, an Ice defensive art instead of TRF (which judging by IWA could do similar things), then we wouldn't have this awkward extra wood element being pushed at us.

Another possibility, if we're looking at 4 elemnt combos, would be to drop wood and switch to fire for our Zhengui synergy. Then, moving away from pure wind, we could run Darkness-Ash-Ice as a build. This plays with the ice/fire duality, and has the cool imagery of the snowy volcano, where clouds of choking ash blind travellers, leaving the lost souls to freeze to death on the slopes of the mountain (who is called Zhengui :p)...

How much freedom we have to adjust things at green will be interesting to see.
 
Nothing wrong with utilitarian, but the fact that it maxes out at late Yellow means that we will be outgrowing that art sometime in Green. Not like that is necessarily a problem - by that point we will have enough interesting things to train as it is, and if/when we do want to "trade up", we should be at a point in our cultivation where we are much less rushed and can afford the extra actions. But I admit that it is slightly disappointing to be working towards a known dead end.
I think that when it comes down to it, we'll have very few arts to train to green level without going in the third level archive, and it's not necessarily bad before the inner sect.

Unless I am missing my guess, we are almost certainly not getting to mid green/bronze by the tournament. We might if we manage to get a virtual green stone and those are good enough to change things, but the odds are fairly low for us to get there and for it to be worth the actions needed to get there by then.

This mean that we'll have various arts capping at late yellow/silver that we can't train at all or need archive level 3 to train: ZB+, AM, AC, FSA (maybe mid silver?). However, for a early green late yellow/silver might not be good but it's still usable. AM/AC would be good enough quality to be very good in themselves and usable even if we need to get in the inner sect to get their successor, I think.

There is some decent odds that TRF will have one level in green and the same for SCS. We know FVM does. Possibly the incoming Yan Renshu art and Shaman Bag art? will have one, too. Apart from that... We'll need to get to the third level archive for arts that get to green.

Obviously, though, all of this change when we get in the inner sect, where we should have access to significantly better arts (Argent successors at least), and might have to begin thinking about creating our own arts, as @Alectai said.
 
I think that when it comes down to it, we'll have very few arts to train to green level without going in the third level archive, and it's not necessarily bad before the inner sect.

Unless I am missing my guess, we are almost certainly not getting to mid green/bronze by the tournament. We might if we manage to get a virtual green stone and those are good enough to change things, but the odds are fairly low for us to get there and for it to be worth the actions needed to get there by then.

Yeah, I'd say that in practice we're going to be just looking at getting everything capped by the tournament, gearing up, and making sure our skills are up to scratch. The investment required to look for 3rd floor successors probably won't be practical in those few months we have.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by Arkeus on Oct 12, 2017 at 2:38 AM, finished with 313 posts and 67 votes.
 
One thing to think about here, with Zhengui getting close to coming online, is how we work with him.

The thing here is that he is slow. He is a tank. If we're kiting around the place, there is a real risk that enemies could just ignore him and keep going after us.

Tactically, the simplest way to use him is as a bodyguard. This would support a more stationary strategy and, combat-wise at least, would favor the use of Driving Zephyr over Fleeting Zephyr. Other possible uses are essentially as a landmine, either dropping him on top of someone or having him do the ambush thing and rooting them to hold them in place while we move away and line up the shot. This, also, arguably favors DZ.

Thoughts?
 
Well, Fleeting Zephyr might help him actually engage the enemy as a Tank, not just hope the enemy gets to him. That, and he is getting bigger. He might not exactly be fast, but I think he is somewhat mobile. There is a possibility that he has a tech like the tank in Dark Dreams, for taunting, but I wouldn't count on it.

So, I'd say use him either as a bodyguard to other people, or as a monster in the mist, engaging our enemies. Him being super slow isn't such a big deal when there is a mist around and enemies can't see what's going on and have to find us. They can't exactly ignore Zhengui given his roots and 'poison'.

Then, there is the 'personal bodyguard' option, where he gets small and sits on our shoulder. If an enemy catch up to us, he enlarges, roots and engage them.
 
Well, Fleeting Zephyr might help him actually engage the enemy as a Tank, not just hope the enemy gets to him. That, and he is getting bigger. He might not exactly be fast, but I think he is somewhat mobile. There is a possibility that he has a tech like the tank in Dark Dreams, for taunting, but I wouldn't count on it.

So, I'd say use him either as a bodyguard to other people, or as a monster in the mist, engaging our enemies. Him being super slow isn't such a big deal when there is a mist around and enemies can't see what's going on and have to find us. They can't exactly ignore Zhengui given his roots and 'poison'.

Maybe, but, well, somewhat mobile doesn't really cut it against cultivators. And the mist doesn't really hide us as well as one might hope, especially when perception arts come into play.
 
I know Ling Qi is seriously crunched for time, especially if she's going to be keeping ZB up to speed instead of dropping it, but I'd still like to make an effort for the other two? Argent arts that are probably out there. If Ling Qi is going to be making her own arts then they'd be valuable bases, at the very least.
There is a possibility that he has a tech like the tank in Dark Dreams, for taunting, but I wouldn't count on it.
I sure hope Zhengui doesn't start delving into creating clothing so horrific that the mere sight overrides Gu Xiulan's good fashion sense with fury

for one thing we already have at least one family invested in making spirit clothing that drinks blood and it would be absolutely gauche to try to edge in on their design space
 
If the tournament is 1v1, that if a bit unlikely for a team art...

Which would be a bit odd don't you think? The fact that the sect determines a person's combat effectiveness through single combat seems weird to me. There are many different types of talents in the sect, and excluding them here seems weird.

Team coordinated cultivator are just as useful to the sect and the Empire, if not more So, than single person powerhouses. It seems a bit inefficient to me for the sect to make the entire tournament 1v1 and reduce the effectiveness of these team players. That would be wasting the talent of good cultivator.

This isn't me saying that the tournament is gonna be team battles though. It's just me thinking out loud on how flexible the sect would be in accommodating competent cultivator who don't work so well in single combat.

Maybe there are alternative methods for these sorts of people to enter the Inner Sect, I dunno, but if I was an Elder i would try to be inclusive towards those who work best in a team.
 
Which would be a bit odd don't you think? The fact that the sect determines a person's combat effectiveness through single combat seems weird to me. There are many different types of talents in the sect, and excluding them here seems weird.

Team coordinated cultivator are just as useful to the sect and the Empire, if not more So, than single person powerhouses. It seems a bit inefficient to me for the sect to make the entire tournament 1v1 and reduce the effectiveness of these team players. That would be wasting the talent of good cultivator.

This isn't me saying that the tournament is gonna be team battles though. It's just me thinking out loud on how flexible the sect would be in accommodating competent cultivator who don't work so well in single combat.

Maybe there are alternative methods for these sorts of people to enter the Inner Sect, I dunno, but if I was an Elder i would try to be inclusive towards those who work best in a team.
Well, we know four Elders personally. This is what the 'Thug' Elder says:
Week 3 said:
"The key physical cultivation is Unity!" His voice booms out over the field, and another person collapses, in a heap. A girl this time, who had been standing next to an utterly unperturbed Meizhen, who stands as still as a statue without so much as a tremble. "The body requires Unity and Balance," even in her current state Ling Qi could hear the odd emphasis that he put on those words. "Flesh, bone, muscle, blood, the organs, major and minor. No part of the body functions well without the others supporting it! And so all must be cultivated to achieve true strength."

He is silent for several seconds after that rounding the end of the row and beginning a walk down the one occupied by Ling Qi. "The same can be said for the Sect and the Empire. No province would find the same prosperity, the same safety on it's own." Ling Qi's breath hitched as she felt her body begging to be allowed to collapse. "No soldier survives a battle on his own. He survives with the support of his squad, which survives with the support of its battalion. A General without his men is no better than a head without a body. An army without a general is no more than a body without a head!"
The other three Elders we know are 'Medicine' (most likely production track), Talisman Head and former director of the ministry of integrity (Not sure of his speciality except he is super Yin), and 'Defense of the realm' Perception/Area Defense specialities. As far as I can tell, none of them would fare well, with the same specialities, in a 1vs1 tournament.

It's very possible they consider that one has to have a minimal of fighting ability to get in the inner sect within the combat track, but I am not seeing them consider '1vs1 fighting' as the most important thing when it comes to fighting capabilities.

There is an argument, I guess, that they consider the advantages one would have by having a powerful group and powerful support arts during the year 'enough', but this ignore the allies of the one having the support arts still benefit from those, and would thus have both that advantage during the year and then the advantage of being a pure thug/duelist in the tournament.

Likewise, a pure 1vs1 tournament is, well, artificially creating a scenario that almost never happen just to gives an advantage to said duelists over team players.
 
"Because Ultimately, the only thing you can always rely on is your own strength"

That's a key maxim of the Xianxia setting. It's fine to be a massive force multiplier for any group you get into. It's even laudable.

It also means you're not leadership material. You're a resource to be tapped by those who are.

A leader can't simply be someone who strengthens everyone around them. A leader has to be the fulcrum point that the world (Or at least their territory) revolves around. The Inner Sect are leadership material, not just the scrubs from the Outer Sect who are tapped as soldiers when the time comes for the Sect to march to war. And to be a Leader in superhuman feudal China, you must be capable of defending your turf from any challengers, any aggressors, and any threats that might rise against you.

So yeah, it makes perfect sense that the Inner Sect Tournament is exclusively one on one duels. It's even more likely that it's single elimination, random draws--which can mean that entirely capable people can still get bumped out in the first round, and ultimately forced into mediocrity. Because if you can't figure out how to seize victory even when the cards are against you, then you're still not leadership material.

They take in hundreds of acolytes a year. Only eight of these get to move on to the Inner Sect. You can't just be strong, you also need to be either lucky--or clever enough that you don't need luck to pass. Chu Song is the golden example of this. She's strong, but she's not lucky, and she's not clever enough to make her own luck either.
 
"Because Ultimately, the only thing you can always rely on is your own strength"

That's a key maxim of the Xianxia setting. It's fine to be a massive force multiplier for any group you get into. It's even laudable.

It also means you're not leadership material. You're a resource to be tapped by those who are.

A leader can't simply be someone who strengthens everyone around them. A leader has to be the fulcrum point that the world (Or at least their territory) revolves around. The Inner Sect are leadership material, not just the scrubs from the Outer Sect who are tapped as soldiers when the time comes for the Sect to march to war. And to be a Leader in superhuman feudal China, you must be capable of defending your turf from any challengers, any aggressors, and any threats that might rise against you.

So yeah, it makes perfect sense that the Inner Sect Tournament is exclusively one on one duels. It's even more likely that it's single elimination, random draws--which can mean that entirely capable people can still get bumped out in the first round, and ultimately forced into mediocrity. Because if you can't figure out how to seize victory even when the cards are against you, then you're still not leadership material.

They take in hundreds of acolytes a year. Only eight of these get to move on to the Inner Sect. You can't just be strong, you also need to be either lucky--or clever enough that you don't need luck to pass. Chu Song is the golden example of this. She's strong, but she's not lucky, and she's not clever enough to make her own luck either.

By your logic, the production track students, who make up half the Inner Sect, don't deserve a place in the Inner Sect.

In fact, that logic doesn't make sense. They test leadership skills through one on one battles? What?

Bai Meizhen would do absolutely amazing in a one on one battle, but she's a sub par leader. She has no leader type ambition, forms no connections, and she hasn't shown any particularly amazing tactics.

She'd easily make it to the Inner Sect, but she'd be a horrible leader.
Adhoc vote count started by Codex on Oct 12, 2017 at 9:04 AM, finished with 335 posts and 68 votes.
 
"Because Ultimately, the only thing you can always rely on is your own strength"

That's a key maxim of the Xianxia setting. It's fine to be a massive force multiplier for any group you get into. It's even laudable.

It also means you're not leadership material. You're a resource to be tapped by those who are.

A leader can't simply be someone who strengthens everyone around them. A leader has to be the fulcrum point that the world (Or at least their territory) revolves around. The Inner Sect are leadership material, not just the scrubs from the Outer Sect who are tapped as soldiers when the time comes for the Sect to march to war. And to be a Leader in superhuman feudal China, you must be capable of defending your turf from any challengers, any aggressors, and any threats that might rise against you.
In setting, being a force multiplier is, actually, something that is considered a domain of leaders. Not that all leaders do it (Chu Song) or that only leaders do it, but it's something that is considered to be how leaders fight.
week 2 said:
He raised an eyebrow, looking a bit surprised. "You're going for heart first? Most people go for an arm or the spine for the first one."

Ling Qi gave him an unsure look. "Is there something wrong with opening the heart first? You have a heart meridian open after all."

"Well yeah, but I'm expected to lead," he responds easily, wincing as Heijin awakens and nips at his fingers. He glares down at the kitten for a moment before continuing. "I didn't take you for the leader type."

This is not a Xanxia world where huge conflicts are resolved solely by duels being the leaders, but by the conflict between the armies of the leaders being led by them. We could see this very well with Ogodei. He didn't go and lie the smackdown alone.

He used support art to enhance the whole of his army, and then used reverse-support art to get enhanced by the whole of his army.
 
True enough I suppose.

On further thought, the Combat Track is likely going to be split into a Survival Test, a Group Combat Test, and a Single Combat Test, and your overall rank will be determined on your aggregate score.
 
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Remember Production track has their own separate entry route.
And anyone learning to be serious support should be packing a monster of a spirit beast. Remember way back at the start? Han Jian wondered why the commoner girl is taking up a 'leadership' art?

Because to be Support Focus and actually have a serious go at winning Inner Sect on combat merit you need to be Faction Leader level of power. Which normally for the heirs of families with such aspirations, includes an inherited spirit beast to be their facebreaker for their power to buff up.

Though arts wise I suspect we'd continue to be eclectic selection of arts from across the spectrum on elements, since our best arts continue to be random finds due to Ling Qi being...Ling Qi. She has a Yin inclination, Moon inclination, but those are also lucky finds!
Not really seeing it as a problem since it makes us slightly less efficient(really wish we kept that Qi refueling talisman, but maybe we can commission one of those later) in terms of easy talisman bonuses but gives us such breadth that...

...just look at the last Trial. We played artillery, dodge-tank, support, at different times, and it worked to make us really hard to counter. It's sort of a protagonist suite really.
 
Yeah, for all that a multi-elemental focus isn't the most efficient, it makes you incredibly annoying to fight, since there's no real silver bullet to use against you.
 
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