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Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

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Alright, as the name suggests, I'm not sure that @yrsillar will actually let us do this... This is my attempt at getting us all the things we want, including all 3 of the most attractive minors. Hopefully we can sacrifice archive browsing to attach ZB+ to tutoring. @Arkeus has suggested that we might be able to train War with ZB or AC given their tactical role as support arts, and it makes training them more interesting, so crossed fingers there. Lastly, I manage to get Suyin, Meizhen, and Xuan Shi by the gambit of taking Zhengui shopping. We can get him shell polish or something idk. Also not sure if yrsillar will let us get away with this, but as @Alectai said, it's just crazy enough to work :lol. It's perfectly reasonable though. He needs to be socialised. See the human world. This is part of raising him too (and Ling Qi has bought food for him before when she was too busy to hunt).

Edit: Ok, I'm doing TRF with Su Ling right now. I'm doing this because once we start doing Eightfold, AC is going to skyrocket. Just the 2 rounds of Eightfold, + a week of autos should give us AC3. We don't need to train it now. TRF, however, is fantastic, and doesn't benefit from Eightfold, so it makes more sense to train it now.

I'm giving the stealth option for Renshu right now, but I'll watch the thread. If smash and grab is more popular, then I'm open to switching... Really, this should be another of those things we vote for separately...

[X] Plan Please let us have everything oh benevolent QM?
-[X] Resources: 3 RS, 1 YS, 1 qi expansion pill (2), basic wind/water/wood pills (6), 2nd level wind/wood pills (12), 1 Black Ichor Elixir, 1 sturdy oak pill (18), 1 steady growth pill (8), 1 Qi Sea Pill (25). Total = 1 YS, 74 RS
-[X]Major actions
-[X] Spend time taking care of and raising Zhengui
-[X] Train with Elder Jiao (LOCKED)
--[X] Larceny
---[X] SCS
--[X] War
---[x] ZB+ (grab from archive)
-[X] Train with Zeqing
-[X] Infiltrate Yan Renshu's hideout
--[X] Do it on your own.
---[X] But tell Meizhen where we're going, so if we don't back she knows where to drop the hammer
-[X] Train at the vent with Su Ling
--[x] TRF
--[X] You haven't had much time for Li Suyin lately, and you have a mysterious tome, maybe the two of you could work on deciphering it?
-[x]Minor Actions
--[X] Meizhen is going out shopping for something at the market, though she hasn't mentioned what. Tag along?
--[X] Xuan Shi seems to be busy setting something up at the council meeting pavilion, perhaps you could help him out?

Edit: note that I'm just training AC at the vent since that makes sense (AC and ZB could probably be switched if we wanted). I'm not actually giving it to Su Ling in case anyone thought that due to all the discussion.
 
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yrsillar said:
No, instead she found her eyes drawn to the one which hung over the divan, depicting a familiar red eyed woman, peering back over her shoulder with a mischievous smile on her lips. In the painting her gown was falling from her shoulders, and her hair was loose and unbound, but she could still recognize Xin, the spirit that given her the arts which had carried her so far.
Ling Qi stared at the image for a moment,the emotion its red eyes making it seem almost alive. Maybe it was. It wouldn't be the strangest thing she had seen. It was distinctly uncomfortable though. Meizhen at the lake uncomfortable. That wasn't the kind of look she wanted to be on the receiving end of.
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Sad but adorable character trait.

yrsillar said:
"You have decided what you desire to be instructed in I hope?" He asked, turning his gaze to study his fingernails, seemingly having lost interest in her.
"I had hoped to receive your instruction in the ways of improving my perception of the world," Ling Qi said, inclining her head respectfully. "More specifically… I have had trouble with unraveling the trails and secrets left behind by my enemies and was hoping for your insight in investigating such matters."

He looked up with a hint of interest. "Is that so? Not quite what I expected, but then again, I suppose you are playing at being half a spymaster for that Cai child, aren't you?"
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Sensei noticed us! Also, sad about our dissinterest in Formations. I thought it might be a bit awkward having him train us considering how little we invest in it but that's only narratively. Mechanically and pragmatically, having his help with the bag is more important than any awkwardness.

yrsillar said:
"Sister Ying?" she muttered under her breath, he looked far her junior, though his qi was near nonexistant to her senses.

Unsurprisingly, the Elder heard her and let out an amused snort. "Girl, if you still believe the appearance of age means anything, you have not been paying attention. Shi Ying looks as she does because she has always been a nosy old woman, even as an unblossomed girl," he said dryly. "I too remain as I always have, a refined gentleman of impeccable taste and charm."

It was a true monument to her self control that Ling Qi managed to keep her expression utterly neutral in the wake of that statement. Her gaze did not flick down to the monstrosity of a ministers robe the man wore. Not even for a moment.
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Arsehole must be doing this on purpose! :mad::rolleyes::lol:rofl:

yrsillar said:
Surprisingly, that wasn't the end of it. His serpentine head flicked its tongue at her. "Big Sister is boring. She doesn't let us do anything."

"Rude!" The little tortoise glared up at his other half. "Don't talk to Mo…. Big Sister like that!"
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What an adorable little slip! Liking their character development. Zhen and Cui would either get along famously or drive each other mad.

yrsillar said:
I want you to use that skill to bury yourself a little bit. I'll chase the food back here, and then you," she said, pointing to the black scaled serpent. "Are going to catch it, will that make you happy?"

Gui looked curious, pawing at the dirt thoughtfully, but Zhen gave an excited hiss of agreement. She stayed behind long enough to watch him, the little tortoises efforts were fueled more by qi than his little stubby feet, but it still took only a minute or so for him to hide himself in the tall grass, looking like no more than a particularly jagged stone with his shell sticking out of the dirt.

She smiled a bit when she felt a fluttering hesitant fluctuation in his qi. He was trying to ape the way she suppressed her own energy when sneaking. She thought a simple reassurance to him, and then set off to circle the clearing flush their prey out, while keeping an eye out for anything actually dangerous approaching.
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yrsillar said:
She would have to try some other things, and encourage Zhengui to keep trying new things, but it seemed she had hit on a method for including him.

Once she had let Zhengui eat his fill, she took him back home to rest, he still got tired out relatively quickly. Of course, with the advancement in his cultivation, she had a feeling that wouldn't last long. He was growing more energetic by the day and soon he would reach the late stage of the first realm. At that point, she would start bringing him with her, stored away in her dantian. Well, assuming he couldn't get the trick to changing his size.
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Looking forward to more Zhengui and I love that he's being turned towards stealth. Just wait till we have him ambush armies by pretending to be a mountain!

yrsillar said:
"I'm fucking tired of not having any choices on my path," she admitted, voice quiet. "Seems like I can only get stronger by being like that fucking fox. I'm pretty shit with a sword, you can see that."
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Kinda frustrating how little we can do to help but I like that we were there for her. Also just generally have a thing for people getting hurt hitting people, always makes me laugh...

I'd like to teach her AC, it's really fitting, but I'd like to talk to Xiulan first. Also, I'm against also teaching Suyin if we won't teach Meizhen. Su Ling is first priority but I don't want to leave Meizhen out by specifically not offering it to her.


[X] Plan Please let us have everything oh benevolent QM?

I wanted to take Meizhen but this has everything else I want, the three minors and ZB+
 
Relying on the QM to fudge action for the players will probably backfire horribly because it's an attempt to bypass the rules.

I also don't get why people push for ZB+ so hard now? It's not like it will help Ling Qi since she already way too much stuff to do in a fight, and ZB+ is unlikely to help with her primary weaknesses of lacking damage spikes, or ways to attack while playing the flute.

Regarding Ling Qi actions, it would probably be ideal for Ling to hang out with Meizhen regardless simply to tell her where Ren is so if Ling is captured Cai can come and demolish the place regardless (admittedly not straight away in case of double agents).
 
Good plan @Erebeal. Not a fan of Xuan Shi instead of Han Jian, but a big fan of ZB+ as well as doing the Yan Renshu mission alone. However not sharing AC is a dealbreaker.

@Thor's Twin I am really not a fan of opening a meridian right now, and think that we should be using ZB+ with Elder Jiao (war), as well as not take Meizhen, but you do have sharing AC with Su Ling.

[X] Plan Mountain's 11
 
Seriously though, if the Renshu strategy is going to be a big point of contention, then I'd recommend that we switch to separate tagged votes there, like we did with the Trial last time.


And if the people who want to give Su Ling AC so much want to do that then how about we have a vote on that too, rather than just having it shoe-horned into a plan or not. I don't mind doing it if it can overcome the objections people have raised and gather majority support.
So:
[] Plan ....
[] [Renshu] Do it alone/with Meizhen/Whatever
[] [Su Ling] Give her AC/Don't give her AC

Thoughts?
 
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SITB said:
Relying on the QM to fudge action for the players will probably backfire horribly because it's an attempt to bypass the rules.

I also don't get why people push for ZB+ so hard now? It's not like it will help Ling Qi since she already way too much stuff to do in a fight, and ZB+ is unlikely to help with her primary weaknesses of lacking damage spikes, or ways to attack while playing the flute.

Regarding Ling Qi actions, it would probably be ideal for Ling to hang out with Meizhen regardless simply to tell her where Ren is so if Ling is captured Cai can come and demolish the place regardless (admittedly not straight away in case of double agents).
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All the plans have her hanging out with Meizhen so far.

Anyway, Ling Qi's weakness is not lacking damage spikes (she has more than enough there) but lacking some crowd control still, and ZB+ helps a lot with that, and also help with defense and damage spikes.
 
tricholysis said:
Why is it important to train War and ZB? You've skipped what got you there, presumably because of the existence of the Discord.
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War is because it's really hard to train, and it's going to be important to us at some point. The events of the trial, and things like Sun Liling's rebellion give us a good impetus for saying "I want to know more about these issues" so it's timely as well.

Being able to get ZB training at the same time means we can train those arts we want to train, and get all the actions we want. That's what the hope is. Otherwise to get ZB I'd have to just train that, and tbh, getting Jiao's help with the first level of ZB+ is pretty lame and uninteresting. On the other hand, getting his guidance on the application of support arts to War, using ZB, is much more interesting...

That's the general idea anyway.
 
Arkeus said:
All the plans have her hanging out with Meizhen so far.

Anyway, Ling Qi's weakness is not lacking damage spikes (she has more than enough there) but lacking some crowd control still, and ZB+ helps a lot with that, and also help with defense and damage spikes.
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Plan Plumb the Darkness doesn't have an action with Meizhen (and just asking her to help doesn't count) and plan Please let us have everything oh benevolent QM? is breaking the rules by having 3 minor actions despite 1 being taken by Jiao (Not to mention that Ling Qi asking him for material is exceedingly likely to backfire when Elder Jiao will reproach her on asking for stuff despite him warning her that he would only provide tutoring).

Also, uhh, if Forgotten Vale Melody (Ling Qi signature ability) isn't a crowd control art then what kind of art is it? There is also the question of why bother sticking with ZB+ (which is straight up a crowd control tech and vies with FVM for relevancy) rather than build up on current arts more useful arts that do things that Ling Qi can't currently do. Besides, if ZB+ requires new meridians then it's probably better to invest in more worthwhile stuff.
 
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SITB said:
Plan Plumb the Darkness doesn't have an action with Meizhen (and just asking her to help doesn't count) and plan Please let us have everything oh benevolent QM? is breaking the rules by having 3 minor actions despite 1 being taken by Jiao (Not to mention that Ling Qi asking him for material is exceedingly likely to backfire when Elder Jiao will reproach her on asking for stuff despite him warning her that he would only provide tutoring).
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The Meizhen action is attached to Zhengui major. We're allowed to do that if they can be related, and that's how we normally have 4 minors - the prayers are around whether or not yrsillar actually lets us connect those two actions.
 
SITB said:
Plan Plumb the Darkness doesn't have an action with Meizhen (and just asking her to help doesn't count) and plan Please let us have everything oh benevolent QM? is breaking the rules by having 3 minor actions despite 1 being taken by Jiao (Not to mention that Ling Qi asking him for material is exceedingly likely to backfire when Elder Jiao will reproach her on asking for stuff despite him warning her that he would only provide tutoring).

Also, uhh, if Forgotten Vale Melody (Ling Qi signature ability) isn't a crowd control art then art is it? There is also the question of why bother sticking with ZB+ (which is probably inferior to the Argent Current technique Ling got as a reward for performing well in a trial) rather than build up on current arts. I mean, if ZB+ requires new meridians then it's probably better to invest in more worthwhile stuff.
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I think @TheLastOne simply forgot it, as he is one short.
 
Erebeal said:
The Meizhen action is attached to Zhengui major. We're allowed to do that if they can be related, and that's how we normally have 4 minors - the prayers are around whether or not yrsillar actually lets us connect those two actions.
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I don't see how raising Zhengui is compatible with going to the market with Meizhen, teaching him will probably require way too much attention for Ling to properly hang out with Meizhen in the market (unless you expect yrsillar to suddenly swerve away and write about how after Ling finished training Zhengui she went to hang with Meizhen).

Also, I still haven't been answered on why ZB+ is worth training (when Ling already has FVM) rather than Argent Current which is an actual fightman technique. Plus the whole 'asking Elder Jiao for materials despite the fact that he repeatedly told us he wouldn't give any'.
 
SITB said:
Also, uhh, if Forgotten Vale Melody (Ling Qi signature ability) isn't a crowd control art then art is it? There is also the question of why bother sticking with ZB+ (which is probably inferior to the Argent Current technique Ling got as a reward for performing well in a trial) rather than build up on current arts. I mean, if ZB+ requires new meridians then it's probably better to invest in more worthwhile stuff.
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It's not either/or.

ZB+ is crowd control in the physical sense while FVM is crowd control in the spiritual sense, so ZB hampers movement and give ranged dice (both defensive and offensive) as well as increase initiative, while FVM is more about hampering people through their resolves and so on.

AC is probably, if AM is any indication, a really fucking good Melee art that also give some offensive support buff.

Speaking of AC and AM, @Erebeal, @TheLastOne and @Thor's Twin, I am unsure that training either of them outside of Eightfold Pill weeks is a good idea. AM will get maxxed out for Yellow simply with Eightfold Pill weeks, and AC, if we train it without Elder, will give Talent 6 + Stone 30 + Pill 12 + Zhengui 5 + Pool 6 + friends 4+ Eightfold 21= 84*2= 168 dice, which leads to an average of 92.5 successes. AC3 should need 15+25+55=95 successes.

So AC3 should be gotten with the vent simply by training it with Eightfold Pill twice, and anything else beyond that should only be if we want to max it out. Even if we do want to max it out, I'd suggest waiting until we get AC3 through eightfold pill weeks to be sure we do that. Simply getting AC2 in our first eightfold pill week action should give us a better idea there.

So, huh, what I am saying is that I wouldn't mind if you folk switch out AC cultivation for something else.
SITB said:
Also, I still haven't been answered on why ZB+ is worth training (when Ling already has FVM) rather than Argent Current which is an actual fightman technique. Plus the whole 'asking Elder Jiao for materials despite the fact that he repeatedly told us he wouldn't give any'.
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We aren't asking him for materials, we are getting ZB+ ourself.
 
Ok, I've just edited my plan to train TRF instead of AC. I'm doing this because once we start doing Eightfold, AC is going to skyrocket. Just the 2 rounds of Eightfold, + a week of autos should give us AC3. We don't need to train it now. TRF, however, is fantastic, and doesn't benefit from Eightfold, so it makes more sense to train it now.

@Grigori is the only person who's voted for it so far, and he didn't say anything about AC, so I don't feel bad about this.

If anyone has any thoughts on this matter, I'm open to them.

Anyway, about ZB. ZB is amazing for our dodgy ranged support build. Its passives give us +ranged, +ranged def, and + initiative (which is awesome). It's arts give us pushback and a projectile shield, Against the Wind is a great debuff. Guiding Zephyr would be great if it was instant.

And that's really the big problem. It's dice are limited right now because it's only a mid-red art. AGtW and GZ not being instant is really really bad. If they were instant we'd be able to actually use them with our other techniques. Right now we have to choose between AGtW and GZ, so we pretty much always use AGtW because that's the best option. If we could use GZ to buff our dagger throw when we're procing AGtW though it would be way better - and a more usable GZ would also significantly improve our ability to throw stuff in while we're playing. Being able to stack ZB on top of FSA would hugely improve our ranged game as well. ZB is one of the best options we have to shore up and improve our core style.

Also, it doesn't overlap with AC. AC is a melee technique. We are primarily ranged. We have allies who also do ranged (i.e. Xiulan). ZB is great for us.
 
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Intelligence 4, Formations 4, Lessons 3. 11 dice +6 auto
7 9 2 6 9 7 3 9 3 3 1. 3 successes 9 total
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@yrsillar - based on past checks, successes are on 7 and above, so this should be 5 successes. I'm not sure if that is sufficient to unlock the bag; but if so it'd be a big change. If it doesn't open the bag, could you go into what's needed to open the final part mechanically? Is it you need to beat this amount of successes on a check (which is likely to cost a lot of actions), or do previous successes apply?
Wits+Survival. 6 dice. +6 auto
7 9 1 9 2 5. 3 successes. 9 total

Resolve+Resilience+AM. 7 dice +6 auto
6 7 1 8 3 5 10. 3 successes. 9 total

Both Passed
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Wits+Survival. 6 dice. +6 auto
10 10 5 8 4 7. 4 successes. 10 total
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Wits 3+Stealth 5+ Equip 2. 10 dice +6 cultivation auto -4 for group average
10 10 10 8 9 7 7 9 7 7. 10 successes. 12 total
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Dexterity 5, Stealth 5, Equip 2, Mist 2, Sable 2. 16 dice. +6 Cultivation Auto.
6 4 9 1 1 3 8 7 7 5 5 3 7 10 5 1. 6 successes. 12 total

Xiulan
Dexterity 6, Stealth 3, Mist 2, Shade 3. 14 dice. +4 Cultivation Auto
3 8 4 2 9 8 10 8 4 3 4 6 3 6. 5 successes 9 total

Fan Yu
Dexterity 4, Stealth 2, Mist 2, Shade 3. 11 dice. +4 Cultivation auto
2 2 5 3 5 10 10 2 3 6 10. 3 successes. 7 total
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Wits+Formations+FVM+Equip. 11 dice +6 auto for cultivation
9 6 1 7 6 7 2 8 6 6 3. 4 successes. 10 total
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Neptune said:
@yrsillar - just a thought but given Ling Qi is now being tutored by an Elder in the narrative; would you be willing to have an OOC question and answer session about things we as players have wondered about but which wouldn't necessarily fit into the story dialogue. Or subsequently you could have a pseudo interlude where our questions and the answers are reformatted into a conversation between Ling Qi and Jiao, although the latter requires a bit more effort and the answers could just be linked into the informational threadmark tab.
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Could you also answer this?
 
veekie said:
Can't see what the 11 plan does in the tally, so closest to what I want then
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It's here:

Thor's Twin said:
[X] Plan Mountain's 11
[X] Resources: 3 red stones, 1 yellow stone, 1 qi expansion pill, 1 channel cleansing pill, 1 Heavy Rains Pill, 1 Gushing spring pill, 1 level one fire pill, 1 level 2 water pill, 1 level 2 fire pill, 1 Black Ichor Elixir, 1 sturdy oak pill, 1 steady growth pill. (1 yellow stone, 59 red stones)
Major actions
[X] Spend time taking care of and raising Zhengui
-[X] Have a chat with Han Jian, it has been some time since you trained together, see what is occupying him
[X] Train with Elder jiao (LOCKED)
-[X] SCS
--[X] Larceny
-[X] Argent Current
--[X] Overflow to arm meridian
[X] Train with Zeqing
[X] Infiltrate Yan Renshu's hideout
-[X] Ask Meizhen to back you up
[X] Train at the vent with Su Ling
-[X] Heart Meridian
--[X] Give Argent Current to Su Ling and Li Suyin
Minor Actions
[X] You haven't had much time for Li Suyin lately, and you have a mysterious tome, maybe the two of you could work on deciphering it?
[X] Meizhen is going out shopping for something at the market, though she hasn't mentioned what. Tag along?
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Broken25 said:
I still think is kinda a waste. I would prefer literally anything else.

Like, say more formations.
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I would prefer to actually try to do some formations ourselves before going back to him. We should actually do a bit more work in applying what he's already taught us before going back for more guidance. If we show actually engagement and interest in the art, he'll probably be happier.

veekie said:
Can't see what the 11 plan does in the tally, so closest to what I want then
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Yeah, @Thor's Twin I think you've broken up the formatting of your plan a bit. You're missing all the hyphens.
 
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