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Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

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Arkeus said:
Yeah it's different. ZB is movement control/debuff of enemies and movement gain/buff of allies. FVM doesn't quite do that, and while TRF helps with the defensive aspects it doesn't for the offensive aspects of the buffs.
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First of all, FVM is absolutely movement control/debuff of enemies. And if it doesn't "quite" do the same thing as ZB I think that the role they play in a fight are close enough to be functionally indistinguishable.

Second, sure, you can distinguish between defensive AoE buffs and offensive ones, but I think in practice we'd use them interchangibly. While there is certainly some value in being able to choose between boosting our allies' defenses and their offenses, I think said value is minimal; instead of developing that sort of versatility we would be far better off focusing on strengthening one or the other.
 
Siual said:
Hm, I don't get why so many people are suddenly interested in the Full Moon as a patron.
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People hate roleplaying.

I wish I was joking.

Anyway. Gan is for me the best for the trial but I am open to doing it with Meizhen. It would show Gan that we trust her which would help get her on our side rather than Han ones (which will be important for the end of the year).
 
Voting should be open by now.

[X] Plan Formations!
-[X] Use from inventory: 3 RSS, 1 YSS
-[X] Buy and use: Gushing Spring Pill, Flowing Rivers Pill
-[X] Spend some stones to stock up on restoratives. You never know when they will come in handy, and it is better to have but not need than to need but not have.

Major Actions
-[X] Train at the vent
--[X] SCS
--[X] Visit Li Suyin and Su Ling to talk to them about moving back into the residential area. There are a number of free homes now
-[X] Spend time taking care of and raising Zhengui
-[X] Seek out Hanyi's Mother, you have improved your melody after all
-[X] Select and begin a Moon Phase task
--[X] Full Moon
-[X] Take a job
--[X] Totem Repair
Minor Actions
-[X] Cai Renxiang has requested that you meet her over tea. It seems she has something to discuss
-[X] Talk to one of your friends about participating in the trial you have discovered
--[X] Meizhen
-[X] See how Xuan Shi is doing, he suffered a defeat in the chaos.

I don't know how many people are interested in this, but I'm going to vote with my heart and push for more Formations. It is the option I personally find the most engaging, and also the one I think is the most peaceful - and I think Ling Qi could use a touch more peace in her life. I'm not arguing against the adrenaline thrill of a heist, and do expect us to keep to our actions in the shadows - but right now, I'm comfortable with how much larceny we are doing and don't especially want to push Ling Qi towards doing even MORE than that. We are already apparently one of the people to talk to about doing stuff in the shadows; I don't want that to be Ling Qi's defining feature.
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PrimalShadow said:
I would vote for including Gu Xiulan in a trial, though that means we would need to allocate a Meizhen minor action.

I would strongly vote against Li Suyin. We have seen time and time again that she feels indebted to us; giving her MORE stuff doesn't help. Also, like you said, the 1st-stage physical cultivation is a dealbreaker.

I would also vote against Su Ling, if less fervently. I think we've had enough excitement with Su Ling for a while, and while I'm not against inviting her somewhere in principle, I don't think it makes sense to prioritize her over Gu Xiulan at this time.



If people feel strongly about including Gu Xiulan over Meizhen, let me know - I'm amenable to changing it in my plan after I post it if there seems to be a consensus.
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I'd rather do it with Meizhen than Gu Xiulan.
 
So, yeah, going for taking Gu instead.

[X] Plan Gearing Up to Gear Up.
-[x] Use from inventory: 3 RSS, 1 YSS
-[x] Buy and use: Gushing Spring Pill, Flowing Rivers Pill
-[x] Spend some stones to stock up on restoratives. You never know when they will come in handy, and it is better to have but not need than to need but not have.
-[X] Major Actions
-[x] Spend time taking care of and raising Zhengui
-[x] Seek out Hanyi's Mother, you have improved your melody after all
-[x] Train at the vent
--[x] Argent Mirror
-[x] Train with Meizhen
--[x] Sable Crescent Step
--[x] Speak with Meizhen, things are slowly normalizing between you, perhaps she and Cui might give you a few tips about Zhengui?
-[x] Select and begin a Moon Phase task
--[x]New Moon
-[X] Minor Actions
-[x] Talk to Gu Xiulan about participating in the trial you have discovered
-[x] Cai Renxiang has requested that you meet her over tea. It seems she has something to discuss
-[x] Visit Li Suyin and Su Ling to talk to them about moving back into the residential area. There are a number of free homes now
 
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PrimalShadow said:
First of all, FVM is absolutely movement control/debuff of enemies. And if it doesn't "quite" do the same thing as ZB I think that the role they play in a fight are close enough to be functionally indistinguishable.

Second, sure, you can distinguish between defensive AoE buffs and offensive ones, but I think in practice we'd use them interchangibly. While there is certainly some value in being able to choose between boosting our allies' defenses and their offenses, I think said value is minimal; instead of developing that sort of versatility we would be far better off focusing on strengthening one or the other.
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Well, that's kinda what ZB+ does though? It strengthen both FVM- it has debuff- and strengthen TRF- it gives even more buffs to defense and offense. Having buff to offense is something only it gives so far, sure, but ZB has a 'does a fuckton of buff' thing going on that means it is very good at making all our other arts even better.

Hell, even the initiative boost is pretty damn useful, especially if it gets stronger.
 
Siual said:
Hm, I don't get why so many people are suddenly interested in the Full Moon as a patron. Sure formations are interesting and they're a good field to branch out into, but our skillset and personality seems to snap perfectly to the Grinning Moon (and to a lesser degree Bloody), and she was the Great Spirit who gave us this art in the first place and who we directly owe for our success. Not picking her as a first option seems odd and incredibly ungrateful.
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I doubt many will vote for the full moon.

If this vote will be in question, I expect it to be decided between grinning Moon and new moon.
 
I would vastly prefer Gu Xiulan to Meizhen. She feels left out in the cold by everyone other than Ling Qi, whereas Meizhen is just looking outwards away from home. Trying to snag Meizhen's attention again with a trial seems gaudy or petty, is possessive, and, for me, would absolutely reek. Just because the relationship isn't as close as it used to be doesn't mean you have to put coins into the gacha to try to get another Meizhen friendship token. Talk it out like normal people instead of trying to exchange 'favors'.

By the by, I'd also like to challenge that notion:
tenchifew said:
Bai also invited us to one trial, even if she needed our help, I would like to return the favor.
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It's not a favor that she did for us. It was explicitly phrased as something Ling Qi could do to help Meizhen, even at the time; something Meizhen mentioned as a thing that Ling Qi could do for her to start to repay her for all the help in the early months. Yes, Ling Qi also benefited from the trial. But that access to the trial and its associated goodies was 'bought' by Ling Qi's friendship-related-stepping-aside for the prize, if you absolutely insist on these unhealthily economic terms. Unless you want to suggest that Ling Qi is still indebted for tea and advice, then this is as square as things get. People were annoyed by Li Suyin's early constant indenture of herself to Ling Qi, because Ling Qi did it not out of an economic 'favor' sense. Don't do the same to Meizhen.
 
Question, Grinning moon is the moon of cleverness and thieves? Yeah, I'm making a plan with that in it. Is it the waning moon or waxing moon?
 
[X] Plan Grinning Moon
-[X] Use from inventory: 3 RSS, 1 YSS
-[X] Buy and use: Gushing Spring Pill, Flowing Rivers Pill
-[X] Spend some stones to stock up on restoratives. You never know when they will come in handy, and it is better to have but not need than to need but not have.

Major Actions
-[X] Train at the vent
--[X] SCS
--[X] Talk to one of your friends about participating in the trial you have discovered
---[X] Meizhen
-[X] Spend time taking care of and raising Zhengui
-[X] Seek out Hanyi's Mother, you have improved your melody after all
-[X] Select and begin a Moon Phase task
--[X] Grinning Moon
-[X] Train on your own
--[X] AM
Minor Actions
-[X] Cai Renxiang has requested that you meet her over tea. It seems she has something to discuss
-[X] Visit Li Suyin and Su Ling to talk to them about moving back into the residential area. There are a number of free homes now
-[X] Talk to one of your friends about participating in the trial you have discovered
--[X] Meizhen
-[X] See how Xuan Shi is doing, he suffered a defeat in the chaos.

Differences to Full Moon plan: training AM instead of a job, and grinning Moon instead of full moon.
 
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Anyway. I took Formations! as the base of this plan. In the most basic terms, it's a 'grinning moon+ask Gu' plan. Everything else is subject to change.

[X] Plan Grinning Flame
-[X] Use from inventory: 3 RSS, 1 YSS
-[X] Buy and use: Gushing Spring Pill, Flowing Rivers Pill, both unknown Wood Pills
-[X] Spend some stones to stock up on restoratives. You never know when they will come in handy, and it is better to have but not need than to need but not have.

Major Actions
-[X] Train at the vent
--[X] TRF
--[X] Visit Li Suyin and Su Ling to talk to them about moving back into the residential area. There are a number of free homes now
-[X] Spend time taking care of and raising Zhengui
-[X] Seek out Hanyi's Mother, you have improved your melody after all
-[X] Train with Meizhen
--[X] SCS
-[X] Select and begin a Moon Phase task
Minor Actions
-[X] Cai Renxiang has requested that you meet her over tea. It seems she has something to discuss
-[X] Speak with Meizhen, things are slowly normalizing between you, perhaps she and Cui might give you a few tips about Zhengui?
-[X] Talk to one of your friends about participating in the trial you have discovered

[X] [Moon] Grinning Moon
[X] [Companion] Gu Xiulan

changelog: removed a copy-paste error->fixed number of actions->swapped Xuan Shi minor for Meizhen minor->swapped Totem Repair job for training TRF with Meizhen->changed to accommodate block voting->addition of elemental pills for Wood->change TRF to AM, with accompanying pill changes->flipflop on TRF/AM->running TIGHT MARGINS on art-breakpoints; swapped TRF/SCS training partners

TRF is a Meizhen training action since she does Wood. Even if TRF is a Yang wood art, Ling Qi is still a beginner with the element

with the advent of the block voting, this plan's SOLE distinguishing characteristic is now TRF instead of AM. I won't change the name but it is no longer descriptive, assuming that other plan voters also make this change. It may become descriptive again in the future if adoption of that design is incomplete.

TRF changed to AM: 30-33 expected successes on a single AM action with 35 needed for the next level of AM (AM3)
 
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Arkeus said:
Well, that's kinda what ZB+ does though? It strengthen both FVM- it has debuff- and strengthen TRF- it gives even more buffs to defense and offense.
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That isn't strengthening FVM or TRF; it is providing another option in both cases; it doesn't actually enhance of FVM/TRF actions.

Arkeus said:
Having buff to offense is something only it gives so far, sure, but ZB has a 'does a fuckton of buff' thing going on that means it is very good at making all our other arts even better.
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Having more actions that do stuff that we can already do does not make all of our other arts even better.

Arkeus said:
Hell, even the initiative boost is pretty damn useful, especially if it gets stronger.
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The passive boosts on ZB combined with the the Instant defense action make it valuable enough for me to more-than-justify the Meridian slots it takes up. I'm just confused about how you think ZB has a unique niche important enough that we need to "either get the successor art for it or get another art that fits the same purpose but better".
 
Thor's Twin said:
Question, Grinning moon is the moon of cleverness and thieves? Yeah, I'm making a plan with that in it. Is it the waning moon or waxing moon?
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New Moon is the moon of mystery and secrets, and it's challenge will net us another trial. That means if everything works out, we could have two elder tutors, and they give 25 dice bonuses to their subject.
 
[X] Plan Grinning Moon

I can dig it. And grinning moon started this train so I'd feel weird not to go to her first.

Also, I'd much rather offer the trial to Bai Meizhen first and only take Gu Xiu if she refuses.
Its just good etiquette and I'd also like to continue deliberately spending time with her that isn't raw training.
Bai Meizhen probably benefits less from this than we do, but so did we (admittedly debatable due to EGG INTERRUPT). Its a pure friend action not ruthless calculation like a war situation.
That she's tough as nails is a bonus.
 
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Alright.... I'm seeing a lot of plans sprout up, and so I'm probably not going to make my own plan. But I will be trying to convince people to drop the Xuan Shi action in favor of something else. Don't know what it is, but my best alternative is the Shaman bags, especially since we just got that nifty disabling formations specialty.
 
As much as I like Full Moon and want to eventually get it, I'd much rather do Grinning Moon right now for a variety of reasons.

[X] Plan Grinning Moon

EDIT: I'd much rather Xuan Shi not be dropped thank you very much
Adhoc vote count started by Codex on Aug 31, 2017 at 1:29 AM, finished with 29262 posts and 37 votes.
  • [X] [Moon] Grinning Moon
    [X] Plan Grinning Flame
    -[X] Use from inventory: 3 RSS, 1 YSS
    -[X] Buy and use: Gushing Spring Pill, Flowing Rivers Pill, both unknown Wood Pills
    -[X] Spend some stones to stock up on restoratives. You never know when they will come in handy, and it is better to have but not need than to need but not have.
    -[X] Train at the vent
    --[X] SCS
    --[X] Visit Li Suyin and Su Ling to talk to them about moving back into the residential area. There are a number of free homes now
    -[X] Spend time taking care of and raising Zhengui
    -[X] Seek out Hanyi's Mother, you have improved your melody after all
    -[x] Train with Meizhen
    --[X] TRF
    -[X] Select and begin a Moon Phase task
    -[X] Cai Renxiang has requested that you meet her over tea. It seems she has something to discuss
    --[x] Speak with Meizhen, things are slowly normalizing between you, perhaps she and Cui might give you a few tips about Zhengui?
    -[X] Talk to one of your friends about participating in the trial you have discovered
    [X] [Companion] Gu Xiulan
    [X] Plan Grinning Moon
    -[X] Use from inventory: 3 RSS, 1 YSS
    -[X] Buy and use: Gushing Spring Pill, Flowing Rivers Pill
    -[X] Spend some stones to stock up on restoratives. You never know when they will come in handy, and it is better to have but not need than to need but not have.
    -[X] Train at the vent
    --[X] SCS
    -[X] Talk to one of your friends about participating in the trial you have discovered
    --[X] Meizhen
    -[X] Spend time taking care of and raising Zhengui
    -[X] Seek out Hanyi's Mother, you have improved your melody after all
    -[X] Select and begin a Moon Phase task
    -[X] Train on your own
    --[X] AM
    -[X] Cai Renxiang has requested that you meet her over tea. It seems she has something to discuss
    --[X] Visit Li Suyin and Su Ling to talk to them about moving back into the residential area. There are a number of free homes now
    -[X] See how Xuan Shi is doing, he suffered a defeat in the chaos.
    [X] [Companion] Bai Meizhen
    [X] [Moon] New
    [X] Plan Gearing Up to Gear Up.
    -[X] Use from inventory: 3 RSS, 1 YSS
    -[X] Buy and use: Gushing Spring Pill, Flowing Rivers Pill
    -[X] Spend some stones to stock up on restoratives. You never know when they will come in handy, and it is better to have but not need than to need but not have.
    -[X] Major Actions
    -[X] Spend time taking care of and raising Zhengui
    -[X] Seek out Hanyi's Mother, you have improved your melody after all
    -[X] Train at the vent
    --[x] Argent Mirror
    -[x] Train with Meizhen
    --[x] Sable Crescent Step
    --[x] Speak with Meizhen, things are slowly normalizing between you, perhaps she and Cui might give you a few tips about Zhengui?
    -[X] Select and begin a Moon Phase task
    --[x]New Moon
    -[X] Minor Actions
    -[x] Talk to Gu Xiulan about participating in the trial you have discovered
    -[X] Cai Renxiang has requested that you meet her over tea. It seems she has something to discuss
    --[X] Visit Li Suyin and Su Ling to talk to them about moving back into the residential area. There are a number of free homes now
    [X] [Companion] Gu Xiulian
    [x] [Plan] Plan Gearing Up to Gear Up.
    [x] Moon: Grinning
    [X] [Moon] Full
    [X] Plan Gearing Up to Gear Up.
    -[X] Use from inventory: 3 RSS, 1 YSS
    -[x] Buy and use: Gushing Spring Pill, Flowing Rivers Pill, the unknown Mountain and Lake pills.
    -[X] Spend some stones to stock up on restoratives. You never know when they will come in handy, and it is better to have but not need than to need but not have.
    -[X] Major Actions
    -[X] Spend time taking care of and raising Zhengui
    -[X] Seek out Hanyi's Mother, you have improved your melody after all
    -[X] Train at the vent
    --[x] Argent Mirror
    -[x] Train with Meizhen
    --[x] Sable Crescent Step
    --[x] Speak with Meizhen, things are slowly normalizing between you, perhaps she and Cui might give you a few tips about Zhengui?
    -[X] Select and begin a Moon Phase task
    -[X] Minor Actions
    -[X] Talk to one of your friends about participating in the trial you have discovered
    -[X] Cai Renxiang has requested that you meet her over tea. It seems she has something to discuss
    --[X] Visit Li Suyin and Su Ling to talk to them about moving back into the residential area. There are a number of free homes now
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Adhoc vote count started by Codex on Aug 31, 2017 at 3:12 AM, finished with 29265 posts and 37 votes.
  • [X] [Moon] Grinning Moon
    [X] Plan Grinning Flame
    -[X] Use from inventory: 3 RSS, 1 YSS
    -[X] Buy and use: Gushing Spring Pill, Flowing Rivers Pill, both unknown Wood Pills
    -[X] Spend some stones to stock up on restoratives. You never know when they will come in handy, and it is better to have but not need than to need but not have.
    -[X] Train at the vent
    --[X] TRF
    --[X] Visit Li Suyin and Su Ling to talk to them about moving back into the residential area. There are a number of free homes now
    -[X] Spend time taking care of and raising Zhengui
    -[X] Seek out Hanyi's Mother, you have improved your melody after all
    -[x] Train with Meizhen
    --[X] SCS
    -[X] Select and begin a Moon Phase task
    -[X] Cai Renxiang has requested that you meet her over tea. It seems she has something to discuss
    --[x] Speak with Meizhen, things are slowly normalizing between you, perhaps she and Cui might give you a few tips about Zhengui?
    -[X] Talk to one of your friends about participating in the trial you have discovered
    [X] [Companion] Gu Xiulan
    [X] Plan Grinning Moon
    -[X] Use from inventory: 3 RSS, 1 YSS
    -[X] Buy and use: Gushing Spring Pill, Flowing Rivers Pill
    -[X] Spend some stones to stock up on restoratives. You never know when they will come in handy, and it is better to have but not need than to need but not have.
    -[X] Train at the vent
    --[X] SCS
    -[X] Talk to one of your friends about participating in the trial you have discovered
    --[X] Meizhen
    -[X] Spend time taking care of and raising Zhengui
    -[X] Seek out Hanyi's Mother, you have improved your melody after all
    -[X] Select and begin a Moon Phase task
    -[X] Train on your own
    --[X] AM
    -[X] Cai Renxiang has requested that you meet her over tea. It seems she has something to discuss
    --[X] Visit Li Suyin and Su Ling to talk to them about moving back into the residential area. There are a number of free homes now
    -[X] See how Xuan Shi is doing, he suffered a defeat in the chaos.
    [X] [Companion] Bai Meizhen
    [X] [Moon] New
    [X] Plan Gearing Up to Gear Up.
    -[X] Use from inventory: 3 RSS, 1 YSS
    -[X] Buy and use: Gushing Spring Pill, Flowing Rivers Pill
    -[X] Spend some stones to stock up on restoratives. You never know when they will come in handy, and it is better to have but not need than to need but not have.
    -[X] Major Actions
    -[X] Spend time taking care of and raising Zhengui
    -[X] Seek out Hanyi's Mother, you have improved your melody after all
    -[X] Train at the vent
    --[x] Argent Mirror
    -[x] Train with Meizhen
    --[x] Sable Crescent Step
    --[x] Speak with Meizhen, things are slowly normalizing between you, perhaps she and Cui might give you a few tips about Zhengui?
    -[X] Select and begin a Moon Phase task
    --[x]New Moon
    -[X] Minor Actions
    -[x] Talk to Gu Xiulan about participating in the trial you have discovered
    -[X] Cai Renxiang has requested that you meet her over tea. It seems she has something to discuss
    --[X] Visit Li Suyin and Su Ling to talk to them about moving back into the residential area. There are a number of free homes now
    [X] [Companion] Gu Xiulian
    [x] [Plan] Plan Gearing Up to Gear Up.
    [x] Moon: Grinning
    [X] [Moon] Full
    [X] Plan Gearing Up to Gear Up.
    -[X] Use from inventory: 3 RSS, 1 YSS
    -[x] Buy and use: Gushing Spring Pill, Flowing Rivers Pill, the unknown Mountain and Lake pills.
    -[X] Spend some stones to stock up on restoratives. You never know when they will come in handy, and it is better to have but not need than to need but not have.
    -[X] Major Actions
    -[X] Spend time taking care of and raising Zhengui
    -[X] Seek out Hanyi's Mother, you have improved your melody after all
    -[X] Train at the vent
    --[x] Argent Mirror
    -[x] Train with Meizhen
    --[x] Sable Crescent Step
    --[x] Speak with Meizhen, things are slowly normalizing between you, perhaps she and Cui might give you a few tips about Zhengui?
    -[X] Select and begin a Moon Phase task
    -[X] Minor Actions
    -[X] Talk to one of your friends about participating in the trial you have discovered
    -[X] Cai Renxiang has requested that you meet her over tea. It seems she has something to discuss
    --[X] Visit Li Suyin and Su Ling to talk to them about moving back into the residential area. There are a number of free homes now
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I would like to chime in that Gu's current situation has a lot of parallels with Ling Qi's situation when she ran away from home. Both felt trapped by their family, who was planning out a life for them that they couldn't abide. Boil it down, and Gu desires freedom just like Ling Qi did. I wonder if she'll manage to climb enough to earn her freedom, or if she'll do something more drastic.

[X] Plan Gearing Up to Gear Up.
 
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