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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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Okay, so journey with me into the World of Tomorrow, the frightening future of 2321....

I have been looking forward and asking myself, what are we shooting for? What's the plan here? Taking the builds I currently have 'penciled' in, I tried to create a plan for only 4 years from now to see what it would look like. This is me trying to figure out what might make sense with Mutual Support and the fleet composition we're likely to have. By all means, give it the stink eye and criticize. I have added in all the Border Zone options that will be showing up in the Snakepit, as well as an assumed Seyek Sector.

Ideal??? Deployment Plan for 2321


2321.Q1 fleet (It may not be exactly this, but it's probably something like this.)
7 EC Excelsior-As
1 EC Excelsior
10 non-EC Excelsior-As– Requires starting 2 more beyond those in progress 2317.Q2
5 non-EC Excelsiors (2 in refit)
16 Miranda-A
10 Centaur-A – Requires starting 2 more beyond those in progress 2317.Q2
4 Oberth
9 Constellation-A
11 Renaissance – Requires starting 1 more beyond those in progress 2317.Q2 (But wait 2 more quarters to 2321.Q3 and another 4 Rennies would show up.)
1 Constitution-A
9 Constitution-B

Sol Sector - (Supported by LBZ and SBZ)
(3 homeworlds, 7 other major worlds) – New Seoul, Joburg IV, Alpha Centurai, Mars, Earth*, Lalande, Betazed*, Onos IV, Gaen*, Thunti
Ships: Constellation-A, Constitution-B

Vulcan Sector - (supported by RBZ)
(1 homeworld, 4 other major worlds) – Delta Vega, Atatan, Vulcan*, 82 Eridani, Hagelan
Ships: Constellation-A, Centaur-A

Andor Sector (supported by RBZ and KBZ)
(1 homeworld, 4 other major worlds) – Andoria*, Landle IV, Kadann, Ranford III, Sardry IV
Ships: Constellation-A, Centaur-A

Tellar Sector (supported by SBZ – but barely)
(1 homeworld, 3 other major worlds) – Ord Grind Duk, Lagh Cheg II, Tellar Prime*, Sar Alpha
Ships: Constellation-A, Centaur-A

Amarkia Sector (supported by SBZ)
(2 homeworlds, 5 other major worlds) – Tales Har, Amarkia*, Selindra, Leas Akaam, Alukk*, Celos, Akola
Ships: Constellation-A, Centaur-A

Ferasa Sector (supported by KBZ and Rimward Border Zone)
(3 homeworlds, 9 other major worlds) – Duaba, Broken Chains, Ollasa IV, Merfara II, Ferasa*, Risa*, Second Risa, Arqeniou*, Larcasis, Carnin Quel, Harquere, Celesipos
Ships: Constellation-A, Constitution-A, Centaur-A

Rigel Sector (supported by LBZ and SBZ; eventually Horizon Border Zone)
(4 homeworlds, 4 other major worlds) – Abadan, Welleck, Laudon, Rigel*, Okatha*, Becarra, Ucuta, Vail*, Obar Homeworld*)
Ships: Constellation-A, Constitution-B,

Apinae Sector (supported by CBZ and SBZ)
(2 homeworlds, 4 other major worlds) – Apinae*, Irrizizza, Alrizzine, Burizz, Indoria*, Vidotti
Ships: Constellation-A, Constitution-B

(to be declared) Seyek Sector (supported by Seyek Border Zone)
2 homeworlds, 2 other major worlds) – Rethelia*, Hacitorius, Fiiral*, Hassonus
Ships: Constellation-A, Constitution-B

Romulan Border Zone (supports 2 sectors)
(Zone Events, 1 major world) – Solitude
Ships: Excelsior, Renaissance, Miranda-A, Oberth

Klingon Border Zone (supports 2 sectors)
(Zone Events, 2 major worlds) – Thiak V, Shrantet III
Ships: Excelsior-A, Renaissance, Miranda-A, Oberth

Sydraxian Border Zone (supports 5 sectors)
(Zone Events, 2 major worlds) - Vega, Klivvar Proxima
Ships: Excelsior-A, Excelsior, Renaissance, Centaur-A

Cardassian Border Zone (supports 2 sectors)
(Zone Events,
Ships: Excelsior-A, Excelsior, Miranda-A, Oberth

Licori Border Zone (supports 2 sectors)
Events Needs = 5 (Zone Events, 1 homeworld, 3 other major worlds) – Paddah*, Gad, Adad Bande, Ashira
Ships: Excelsior-A, Renaissance, Centaur-A, Oberth

(to be declared) Horizon Border Zone (supports 1 sector, Rigel)
Ships: Excelsior-A, Excelsior, Renaissance, Centaur-A, Miranda-A

(to be declared) Seyek Border Zone (Seyek-Cardassian Border) (supports 1 sector, new Seyek Sector)
Ships: Excelsior-A, Constitution-B, Centaur-A

(to be declared) Rimward Border Zone (Dawiar border, some Caitian colonies, some Themis (Supports 1 Sector, Ferasa)
Ships: Excelsior-A, Renaissance

Gabriel Border Zone
Needs: Achieve 100C by 2321, 2 Excelsior flagships, 2 Science 3+ frigates, remainder filled out by cruisers and combat frigates.
Ships: 2 Excelsiors-A, 2 Centaur-A, 12 Miranda-A, 4 Constitution-B, 5 Renaissances
 
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Why build Centaur-A when we can build Constellation-A and do the same thing with a +2 to response rolls? I understand we may be worried about crew (if so, I'd ask for the figures) or perhaps a year of build time is significant in some way (if so, I would argue it's not).
 
@Briefvoice do we have the additional crew income to build Rennies instead of Centaurs? Centaurs that we have are good since they'll be Blooded soon, but I'm unsure that we should build more.
 
SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
Why build Centaur-A when we can build Constellation-A and do the same thing with a +2 to response rolls? I understand we may be worried about crew (if so, I'd ask for the figures) or perhaps a year of build time is significant in some way (if so, I would argue it's not).
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It's a crew thing.

This quarter alone our SR income went up by +60 and we found 85 SR. Crew not so much. (I mean, it did go up by more than 1 in every category, but still.) A Constellation costs twice the crew of a Centaur-A in the two categories we care about, Officers and Enlisted.

Playing around with the sheet, I found it useful to 'cool down' our crew consumption and balance it more with SR consumption by building 2 to 4 Centaur-As. And they are useful ships.

Forgothrax said:
@Briefvoice do we have the additional crew income to build Rennies instead of Centaurs? Centaurs that we have are good since they'll be Blooded soon, but I'm unsure that we should build more.
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I had to pick a date, but I will say wait 2 more quarters and four more Rennies would show up.
 
AlphaDelta said:
Honestly, why are we voting for an ISC diplomatic posture report? It has minimal utility, and Oneiros even said so!
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At the moment, the ISC diplomatic posture report is actually close to being edged out by the Klingon Fleet Strength option. Klingon Diplomatic Posture Report also wins out over it but doesn't look like it does, because the vote is split between people who remembered to write 'Report' at the end and those who didn't.

So at the moment, ISC diplomatic posture is wiggling between sixth and seventh place. Personally, I very much want to know more about the ISC, but think a diplomatic posture report is a poor way to get what we want. And we really should know what the Klingon war-fleet looks like.
 
Forgothrax said:
I presume the sheet takes into account academy expansions yearly, 1 member/year, and 2320s Affiliate Research? Even if not... Urgh. I can see wanting Centaurs but I'd much rather have Rennies in their place.
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But that's not even the point? You're focusing way too much on the initial list of ships. Two more Centaurs don't matter shit, frankly. Feel free to knock them out of the GBZ if you don't want them.

The question is how ship types are distributed. Constellations and Centaurs or Connie-Bs on interior sectors. Excelsiors (or even double-Excelsiors)and Renaissances in border zones, putting not a single Excelsior in a non-Border Zone. Sprinkle a few Mirandas around the edges, but put most in the GBZ.

Is that looking about right?
 
Briefvoice said:
But that's not even the point? You're focusing way too much on the initial list of ships. Two more Centaurs don't matter shit, frankly. Feel free to knock them out of the GBZ if you don't want them.

The question is how ship types are distributed. Constellations and Centaurs or Connie-Bs on interior sectors. Excelsiors (or even double-Excelsiors)and Renaissances in border zones, putting not a single Excelsior in a non-Border Zone. Sprinkle a few Mirandas around the edges, but put most in the GBZ.

Is that looking about right?
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I disagree with the formulation of Excelsiors in BZ only. We've seen ships with perfectly adequate D fail to respond to important events, and we've seen that the degree to which the response check is passed matters. Lacking Excelsior flagships in internal sectors is a failure in deployment and I would argue that we have D-focused ships like the Connie-B and especially the Renaissance that can respond to internal sectors - that's what such D5 cruisers are designed for. I argue strenuously to keep our current Excelsior-flagship deployment pattern and to use D5 cruisers for mutual support rolls - they may be less likely to respond but it means when we keep an event ace and high-quality response in an internal sector in the highly likely case that we have crucial events in internal sectors. We have events that require an ace in internal sectors literally every year, and we best ensure that such a ship is available.
 
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I strongly suspect the Rigel sector will split on Honiani/Yan-Ros/Obar ratification.
 
Briefvoice said:
But that's not even the point? You're focusing way too much on the initial list of ships. Two more Centaurs don't matter shit, frankly. Feel free to knock them out of the GBZ if you don't want them.

The question is how ship types are distributed. Constellations and Centaurs or Connie-Bs on interior sectors. Excelsiors (or even double-Excelsiors)and Renaissances in border zones, putting not a single Excelsior in a non-Border Zone. Sprinkle a few Mirandas around the edges, but put most in the GBZ.

Is that looking about right?
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Generally. I'd like to stick maybe one more Constie if we can into Sol sector. Three member worlds, most of our production and a questionable power are all nearby.
 
SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
I disagree with the formulation of Excelsiors in BZ only. We've seen ships with perfectly adequate D fail to respond to important events, and we've seen that the degree to which the response check is passed matters. Lacking Excelsior flagships in internal sectors is a failure in deployment and I would argue that we have D-focused ships like the Connie-B and especially the Renaissance that can respond to internal sectors - that's what such D5 cruisers are designed for. I argue strenuously to keep our current Excelsior-flagship deployment pattern and to use D5 cruisers for mutual support rolls - they may be less likely to respond but it means when we keep an event ace and high-quality response in an internal sector in the highly likely case that we have crucial events in internal sectors. We have events that require an ace in internal sectors literally every year, and we best ensure that such a ship is available.
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I should also note that this will change once we get the Kepler into mass deployment.
 
SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
I disagree with the formulation of Excelsiors in BZ only. We've seen ships with perfectly adequate D fail to respond to important events, and we've seen that the degree to which the response check is passed matters. Lacking Excelsior flagships in internal sectors is a failure in deployment and I would argue that we have D-focused ships like the Connie-B and especially the Renaissance that can respond to internal sectors - that's what such D5 cruisers are designed for. I argue strenuously to keep our current Excelsior-flagship deployment pattern and to use D5 cruisers for mutual support rolls - they may be less likely to respond but it means when we keep an event ace and high-quality response in an internal sector in the highly likely case that we have crucial events in internal sectors. We have events that require an ace in internal sectors literally every year, and we best ensure that such a ship is available.
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Do you feel like we should move Excelsiors out of border zones in favor of interior zones? Because if we buy those extra border zones (and I believe we likely will) it's going to be one or the other. We don't have enough Excelsiors to give every sector/border zone an an Excelsior flagship. (You notice only two of the border zones + Gabriel actually double up on an Excelsior.)

I could see a fleet make up where each internal sector has an Excelsior and only an Excelsior as its sole responder, with further Events in that sector addressed by Mutual Support. However, I foresee complaints about that.

1. I am forever getting told when I post a fleet distribution that I need 'high Presence' ships on the border, and Excelsiors are of course our best Presence ships.
2. If we take the technology that increases events in Border Sectors and decreases them in home sectors, those Excelsiors may be idle a lot.

I'm not saying I totally disagree with the idea, but those are the stumbling blocks that I see.

SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
I should also note that this will change once we get the Kepler into mass deployment.
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Where do we plan to put those Keplers anyway?
 
Briefvoice said:
Do you feel like we should move Excelsiors out of border zones in favor of interior zones? Because if we buy those extra border zones (and I believe we likely will) it's going to be one or the other. We don't have enough Excelsiors to give every sector/border zone an an Excelsior flagship. (You notice only two of the border zones + Gabriel actually double up on an Excelsior.)

I could see a fleet make up where each internal sector has an Excelsior and only an Excelsior as its sole responder, with further Events in that sector addressed by Mutual Support. However, I foresee complaints about that.

1. I am forever getting told when I post a fleet distribution that I need 'high Presence' ships on the border, and Excelsiors are of course our best Presence ships.
2. If we take the technology that increases events in Border Sectors and decreases them in home sectors, those Excelsiors may be idle a lot.

I'm not saying I totally disagree with the idea, but those are the stumbling blocks that I see.



Where do we plan to put those Keplers anyway?
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There's two constraints to optimize against: Responses made and Events passed.

IMO, Cruiser + Centaur or even a Miranda in less crucial sectors should be acceptable, or even solo cruiser once Mutual Support is up.

We need our BZ Flags and Critical Sector Flagships more than one in every sector.
 
AlphaDelta said:
There's two constraints to optimize against: Responses made and Events passed.

IMO, Cruiser + Centaur or even a Miranda in less crucial sectors should be acceptable, or even solo cruiser once Mutual Support is up.

We need our BZ Flags and Critical Sector Flagships more than one in every sector.
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See what I'm looking at, though, is that the Sydraxian Border Zone covers five additional sectors by Mutual Support. So maybe it's better to just put two Excelsiors there even if it means a critical interior sector doesn't get an Excelsior flagship.
 
Briefvoice said:
See what I'm looking at, though, is that the Sydraxian Border Zone covers five additional sectors by Mutual Support. So maybe it's better to just put two Excelsiors there even if it means a critical interior sector doesn't get an Excelsior flagship.
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Yeah, that's basically a no-brainer.

Those Excelsiors are going to get a LOT more event responses in in the SBZ than anywhere else just because of how many times they get to roll.

Honestly the SBZ has enough response ops you might want to put another ship or two there because with SIX sectors worth of potential events to respond any ship there with a good D will be responding.
 
Briefvoice said:
Do you feel like we should move Excelsiors out of border zones in favor of interior zones? Because if we buy those extra border zones (and I believe we likely will) it's going to be one or the other. We don't have enough Excelsiors to give every sector/border zone an an Excelsior flagship. (You notice only two of the border zones + Gabriel actually double up on an Excelsior.)

I could see a fleet make up where each internal sector has an Excelsior and only an Excelsior as its sole responder, with further Events in that sector addressed by Mutual Support. However, I foresee complaints about that.

1. I am forever getting told when I post a fleet distribution that I need 'high Presence' ships on the border, and Excelsiors are of course our best Presence ships.
2. If we take the technology that increases events in Border Sectors and decreases them in home sectors, those Excelsiors may be idle a lot.

I'm not saying I totally disagree with the idea, but those are the stumbling blocks that I see.



Where do we plan to put those Keplers anyway?
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1. Don't buy all those extra border zones. Despite being the person to bring them up I feel we'd need and could support them in 5-6 years, not in 3. This is actually really crucial. Just hold off on the border zones in places we don't need them. I would rather have one six-ship sector than two three-ship sectors.
2. If we purchase at most one of the offered border zones then we can afford to have 2-4 crucial internal sectors garrisoned with an Excelsior flagship. I don't mind quiet sectors like Tellar or Andor or even Apinae to go without.
3. Keplers can substitute for Excelsiors in internal sectors because for event response purposes they essentially are an Excelsior. Having an abundance of Keplers backed by our legacy cruisers can give every sector an ace without needing Excelsiors. In addition, they are less suited for mutual support in BZs, as they get no Lone Ranger bonus. Put our first Keplers in internal sectors and push the Excelsiors they replace outwards, transition to one Kepler per sector including BZs, then fill in additional ships in places we have evidence they'd be useful based on actual response data for the Kepler.
4. Understand that there are going to be exceptions. The SBZ as it is might be one, where we'd want two Excelsiors.
 
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[X][REPORT] Klingon Fleet Strength
[X][REPORT] Romulan Fleet Strength
[X][REPORT] Cardassian Fleet Strength
[X][REPORT] Horizon Fleet Strength

Gnarker said:
This one seems important.
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It's got my support, putting down listening posts would be a good too.


Can anyone explain what all our prospectors (holding) means?
 
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Assuming the reality of the game universe does actually look something like that by that time frame, do we want to have Green Excelsiors in the SBZ for levelling up purposes, or veteran units for higher success rates?
If we go Green units, use this as the levelling grounds and rotate every time someone reaches Blooded?

TyrialFrost said:
Can anyone explain what all our prospectors (holding) means?
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MY ASSUMPTION:
Our Engineering/Colony ships have enough of a backlog of work that there is no real purpose for pushing the exploration further afield, as it will be years before we can actually exploit anything that we find.

EDIT:
Claimed:
(Starfleet) 41 Miele II, Class L habitable planet, 41 Miele IV Class C frozen rock with 25br/yr mine potential
(Amarkia) 3 Miele VI, 35br/yr mine
(Starfleet) 29 Baker II 15br/yr mine, 29 Baker V 10sr/yr, minor colony potential
(Amarkia) 10 Miele V, Class M Planet, 15br & 15sr/yr
(Amarkia) 10 Miele II-3 Class M moon, 10br & 15sr/yr, 2 planets with ancient ruins
(Apiata) 33 Dorsata III - Class G minor colony, 20sr/yr
(Apiata) 33 Dorsata XI - Class T Gas Giant, 30sr/yr
(Apiata) 2 Dorsata - 2x25br/yr mine <-- only 1 mine built thus far
(Caitian) 23 Firefly IV - 10sr/yr mine
(Caitian) 23 Firefly X - 10sr/yr mine
(Caitian) 23 Firefly XI - Class M, 40br/yr, 25sr/yr - Major Colony potential
(Caitian) 23 Firefly XII - Class L, 25sr/yr - Major Colony potential
(Caitian) 5 Firefly X - Class M, 30sr/yr - Major Colony potential
(Caitian) 5 Firefly XIII-1 - Class C, 10sr/yr
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This is the list of mines/colonies that the forces in the GBZ have put their flags on, but not yet developed.
Starfleet has 4 (two in 41 Miele, two in 29 Baker)
Amarkia has 3-5 (one in 3 Miele, two or four in 10 Miele - depends on how the ruins get treated)
Apiata has 3 (one more in 2 Dorsata, two in 33 Dorsata)
Caitian has 6 (four in 23 Firefly, two in 5 Firefly) {and only have a half sized engineering team present!}

There are more systems with potential sites that have not been claimed yet.

The builders have years of work queued up.
 
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In particular border zone purchases should probably wait for Frontline Infrastructure (completes in 2320 assuming we use Lathriss after completing Mutual Support) unless there is a really pressing reason, or perhaps even for completing our ambition (should be snakepit 2323 at the latest if not delayed by new border zones waiting for their starbase, possibly earlier with more defensive tech teams and/or if the root node counts as one of the 6 slides)
 
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So anyone have any good ideas for design styles for Institute logos? <.<

TyrialFrost said:
Can anyone explain what all our prospectors (holding) means?
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Sector Command hasn't cleared further subsectors for the prospectors, due a combination of trying to consolidate the resources already discovered, and the fact that the fleet forces are tied down protecting those sites.
 
Nix said:
In particular border zone purchases should probably wait for Frontline Infrastructure (completes in 2320 assuming we use Lathriss after completing Mutual Support) unless there is a really pressing reason, or perhaps even for completing our ambition (should be snakepit 2323 at the latest if not delayed by new border zones waiting for their starbase, possibly earlier with more defensive tech teams and/or if the root node counts as one of the 6 slides)
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You have to consider that there's no fixed reward for completing ambitions, so it's all a matter of how "meaningful" OneirosTheWriter judges it to be. Putting up some extra border zones and then buying Starbases for them is probably more impressive (and hence likely to garner a higher reward) than avoiding buying them so we can complete the ambition with only one Starbase.

That said, here's my take on buying Border Zones.

1. Should probably buy the Seyek Border Zone the same year that the Seyek enter the Federation, even if it's before 2320.
2. The Horizon border zone depends on how much trouble they turn out to be. If there are damaging Horizon events we'd rather keep away from our space, we buy the border zone early. If not, it can wait.
3. Rimward border zone is no particular rush. We can almost certainly wait until after Frontline Infrastructure.
 
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