Given relative positioning, it occurs to me that the Dylaarians could be convinced to switch sides and become Ferengi clients instead. I have a feeling the Ferengi would be much better at playing their game than the Cardassians are.
Ferengi with Dylaarian lawyers.

Eeep
You're right.

o_O

THIS IS A VERY BAD PLAN LET US NEVER EVER DO THIS.

The good news is, some opportunistic Ferengi (or two, or ten, or a thousand) are predictably going to try to circumvent Dylaarian IP rights for personal gain, so hopefully this alliance out of the depths of Ultracorporate Alien Hell can never form...
 
Risa: Minimally Chill (Hishmeri)

You know something is wrong when Risa thinks there's trouble.

The Cardassians have regathered their enthusiasm for reaching Sydraxian space. Commodore ka'Sharren has reported brief encounters with Cardassian forces on four occasions, though never proceeding to the loss of shields. We are left with a somewhat classical defender's dilemma, in which we either spread out to ensure that they are not by-passing our positions and run the risk of being defeated in detail, or consolidate and run the risk of being by-passed. Therefore, I intend to attack.

To paraphrase Adama, 'If you punch the schoolyard bully right in that nose, he'll think twice about coming back.'



T'Lorel apparently doesn't like the no-wins.

T'Lorel probably served on the Enterprise at one point.



Up to 2 Cargo Ships may be scheduled for 2yr builds for free, with each additional costing 5pp
Up to 1 Freighter may be scheduled for 3yr builds for free, with each additional costing 5pp
Up to 1 concurrent Super-freighter may scheduled for 4yr builds for free, with each additional costing 10pp

I say we take the deal guys.

Note that such strength is all over the place, not concentrated in a few locations.

Still amazing though.

And it can only be mobilized if there's an existential threat to the Federation. If the Biophage crisis 2.0 were to happen, it would go very differently.

Six Renaissance cruisers! The Human and Tellarite fleets just got a lot more dangerous. Imagine if we could have called those bad boys up during the Arcadian War.

Very Differently.

Right now, the plan is to send those ships into the Explorer Corps, but in that case they'd be too busy flying around the galaxy exploring to sit around terrorizing Cardassians in one place.

The Explorer Corps prefer to spread their terror around evenly. We have Cardies to our west, Hishmeri to our south, TCB Ponies to our north, and the Klingons/Romulans/Tholians to our East.

To be fair, in any realistic conflict neither side could commit full forces and there are all sorts of considerations I'm ignoring, but you can see why the very existence of the UFP keeps the Obsidian Order well supplied in night terrors. (I'm assuming they must know about the member fleets by now, right? At least in generalities.)

Way back when, the Cardies simply couldn't find any publicized information on the Member Fleets aside from the Amarki because the Amarki had the only fleet that could fight worth a damn and were damn proud of it.

The Obsidian Order has spent the past decade and a half watching the Member Fleets grow from a glorified police force into credible threats in their own right.
 
To paraphrase Adama, 'If you punch the schoolyard bully right in that nose, he'll think twice about coming back.'
It's worth bearing in mind that the Cardassians are a pretty hard-nosed species; once they think they've fixed whatever went wrong, they're likely to rebound well from defeat.

T'Lorel probably served on the Enterprise at one point.
She's actually only about three years younger than Spock is, so... maybe during the TAS era or the early 2270s?

But on the whole, I don't want to imply that every gutsy, competent person we have willing to take risks and fight their way out of a disadvantageous situation is a Kirk protege. Not all of our current generation of best necessarily learned from the single best of the previous generation.

I say we take the deal guys.
What do you mean by that? Do you mean, build as many auxiliaries as possible without burning political will to do it? Or "yes, burn political will to do it?"
 
But on the whole, I don't want to imply that every gutsy, competent person we have willing to take risks and fight their way out of a disadvantageous situation is a Kirk protege. Not all of our current generation of best necessarily learned from the single best of the previous generation.

Nash almost certainly didn't serve under Kirk. I'm actually willing to just assert that she never even met The Man until time travel schenans happened
 
[X][BEE] Intazzi Shipyards

[X][CREW1] Crew with Standard Crew
[X][CREW2] Crew with Explorer Corps

[X][NAME1] Spirit
[X][NAME2] Opportunity


[X][BUILD] 2317 2 Excelsior-As, 2 Excelsior refits, 2 Miranda-A refits, 2 Constellation-As, 2 Constellation Refits, 4 Renaissance, 2 cargoships, 1 freighter, 1 super-freighter
 
Since The Konan were invaded and conquered by the Cardassians we might have a possible ally in them if we promise them their freedom once the war with the Cardassians begins. we might have Parity with the Cardassians in terms of numbers but AFAIK we have been blooding our ships as fast as possible and transferring crews from Blooded ships to spread the experience around like we did with the crew for the Enterprise B. I don't think its the same for the Cardassians since AFAIK they haven't been fighting anywhere except for the GBZ and there can only be so many ships there at a time unless the Cardassians decide to make the GBZ a hot zone in which case we start sending more ships there. And that includes sending the ships that were just commissioned into the fleet to the GBZ as well.
Adhoc vote count started by Thors_Alumni on Jul 11, 2017 at 12:35 PM, finished with 6425 posts and 105 votes.

Adhoc vote count started by Thors_Alumni on Jul 11, 2017 at 12:36 PM, finished with 6426 posts and 105 votes.

Adhoc vote count started by Thors_Alumni on Jul 11, 2017 at 12:38 PM, finished with 6426 posts and 105 votes.

Adhoc vote count started by Thors_Alumni on Jul 11, 2017 at 12:41 PM, finished with 6426 posts and 105 votes.
 
[X][BEE] Intazzi Shipyards

[X][CREW1] Crew with Standard Crew
[X][CREW2] Crew with Explorer Corps

[X][BUILD] 2317 2 Excelsior-As, 2 Excelsior refits, 2 Miranda-A refits, 2 Constellation-As, 2 Constellation Refits, 4 Renaissance, 2 cargoships, 1 freighter, 1 super-freighter
 
After this year, this should be the last EC Excelsior.
Good, then, that it is named for the little rover that could.

If you guys don't know, the Opportunity mars rover has been active there for over 13 years. It landed in '04. (Holy shit that was when I started high school). It has operated over 50 times its planned mission length, and it's still trucking.

The important thing to take away from this is that Duck Dodgers needs to be on the Opportunity's dedication plaque.
 
They're clear on the other side of Cardassian space. I don't think we're in a position to keep any promise of that kind.

[X] Briefvoice

To be honest. Despite what the Pacifists might think. I don't think the war will end unless one side is in orbit of the others homeword and has total supremacy of the surrounding space. The Cardassians will keep coming unless we do something about it.
Adhoc vote count started by Thors_Alumni on Jul 11, 2017 at 12:50 PM, finished with 98 posts and 23 votes.
 
[X] Briefvoice


Can we spend some PP to build extra AUX ships in the 20+ idle member yards?

We should be willing to spend if we can get a new engineering team.
 
[X][BEE] Intazzi Shipyards

[X][CREW1] Crew with Standard Crew
[X][CREW2] Crew with Explorer Corps

[X][NAME1] Spirit
[X][NAME2] Opportunity

[X][BUILD] 2317 2 Excelsior-As, 2 Excelsior refits, 2 Miranda-A refits, 2 Constellation-As, 2 Constellation Refits, 4 Renaissance, 2 cargo ships, 1 freighter, 1 super-freighter
 
[X][NAME1] Spirit
[X][NAME2] Opportunity

To be honest. Despite what the Pacifists might think. I don't think the war will end unless one side is in orbit of the others homeword and has total supremacy of the surrounding space. The Cardassians will keep coming unless we do something about it.
If the Cardassians think they're losing, they will seek to make peace. It is likely that the Federation government will be in favor of letting that happen. I don't even disapprove, because most of our conflicts with the Cardassians are over territory or resources. It's usually not worth risking millions of lives, even enemy lives, just to fight over territory or resources.

The Ashalla Pact, or at least the parts we're worried about, would be likely to fall apart naturally if the Cardassians actually lose a war. There's no way the Dawiar, Sydraxians, or Yrillians will want to hang around loyally with a bunch of people whose sole claim to fame is their hardass ability to win wars and Get Shit Done.... Not after they fail to actually win or get shit done. We don't need to make this part of the peace treaty, really, it's just gonna happen, especially because the Cardassian allies bordering our space are likely to sign separate peace treaties with us after we overrun their space.

The only thing I'd really like to secure from the Cardassians in a war, directly, is the guaranteed neutrality of Bajor. I think preventing the Occupation from growing into its full horror is important and worthwhile.

Thing is... I don't even want Bajor as a Federation member. Because unless they shake off the caste system on their own, it probably won't work. I just don't want Bajor to belong to Cardassia. I'd be perfectly happy with an agreement by which both sides agree on the planet as official neutral territory where they will abstain from firing weapons, sending any kind of troops, or otherwise interfering in local governance.

Everything else that I might want to demand from Cardassia is purely a cynical attempt to make Cardassia weaker and the Federation stronger. What are we going to do, take over their border starbases and mining colonies? Will we make the Cardassians sign over colonies to us, then have to deal with a sort of demented anti-Maquis of Cardassian colonists who refused to leave?

Again, the only reason to do this is to weaken Cardassia- but we've basically just established that the Cardassians aren't actually strong enough to conquer the Federation. We don't have an urgent need to weaken them.

Nash almost certainly didn't serve under Kirk. I'm actually willing to just assert that she never even met The Man until time travel schenans happened
Yeah- that's a good start. But it's like, our best crop of officers circa 2330 is hopefully going to include a lot of people who served with Nash and T'Lorel and Eaton and Thuir and Straak and so on. We don't know who the other 'great captains' of the late 23rd century were, on the whole, but we can reasonably infer that they existed.

I meant 'Yes, take the free ships.'
Well, I'm not sure they're free as such, I think we have to pay for them in some way...?

Since The Konan were invaded and conquered by the Cardassians we might have a possible ally in them if we promise them their freedom once the war with the Cardassians begins.
This might actually work. On the other hand, it's likely that the current Konen government was put in place by the Cardassians and may depend on the Cardassians' favor for its continued survival. Certainly that's the usual Cardassian modus operandi with conquered puppet states.

So if we make the offer to the current Konen leaders, they may respond with a telepathic message about how thoroughly we can go... uh, do things we don't want to do. :(

we might have Parity with the Cardassians in terms of numbers but AFAIK we have been blooding our ships as fast as possible and transferring crews from Blooded ships to spread the experience around like we did with the crew for the Enterprise B.
That doesn't work.

Breaking up a Blooded crew among several ships doesn't get you several blooded ships. It would, at best, get you several ships with like +2 XP each.

It only worked with Enterprise because we had an entire intact crew that could be broken up (we didn't need to leave anyone behind to fly the Enterprise herself). And because Enterprise was already Elite, with crew so good that even transferring a third of them to another ship would make a major difference in the performance of that other ship.

I don't think its the same for the Cardassians since AFAIK they haven't been fighting anywhere except for the GBZ and there can only be so many ships there at a time unless the Cardassians decide to make the GBZ a hot zone in which case we start sending more ships there. And that includes sending the ships that were just commissioned into the fleet to the GBZ as well.
We get most of our XP from event checks, not from fighting battles. Some of the ships we've had 'ding' and level up have NEVER fought in a major battle as far as I can recall.

Our only Blooded ships that got veterancy through a war were Challorn, Kumari, and Yukikaze, through service in the Biophage campaign. And they got it because of omakes and because we voted for them, not because they picked up a pile of XP. Docana fought in the Biophage campaign, but she didn't earn Blooded status until over ten years later, after many successful event checks.

Cheron sat out the Biophage crisis because she was in the hospital- but she has that Old School Connie ability to kick ass on event checks, which nets her XP. Bull and Gale are Centaurs that, again, leveled up by grinding away at one event check after another. Most of our other ships. Thirishar leveled up too, by the power of "if at first you don't succeed at event checks, try, try again."

So far, every ship that has leveled up through any process other than QM fiat or player-voted awards, leveled up after grinding experience via event checks.

...

So in addition to the fact that our ships don't actually get XP from fighting, but rather from event checks, there's another issue- our leveled-up ships are few in number, and not overwhelmingly powerful with the exception of the Veteran/Elite ships in the Explorer Corps (who rarely participate in fleet battles).

Challorn, a blooded Constellation (soon to be refitted if not already refitted) has Combat 4 Hull 3 Shields... 3 or 4, I don't remember if the refit boosts shields. Either way, barely a match for a gun Takaaki, let alone a Jaldun-class cruiser. The Cardies don't need a superior crew to beat her. Likewise for our three Blooded Centaurs, Yukikaze, Bull, and Gale. None of them are reliably going to beat a Cardassian heavy in a fight, and even Cardassian frigates are still strong enough that the Blooded Centaur-As don't outclass them.

The only ships we have that can use their veterancy to bully individual Cardassian units are, again, explorers. Which are already more powerful than any single Cardassian unit except their pair of hangar-queen battlecruisers, and which just get to open the performance gap even wider by taking advantage of veterancy.
 
To be honest. Despite what the Pacifists might think. I don't think the war will end unless one side is in orbit of the others homeword and has total supremacy of the surrounding space. The Cardassians will keep coming unless we do something about it.

I think that's being unduly pessimistic. The Cardassians are people just like anyone else. Their politics can change. Their culture can change. They could just decide at some point to build a wall and make the Federation pay for it and leave it at that. There's nothing stopping them from finding some way to declare victory to themselves and go home. They know very well our politics would make it difficult to pressure them if they did.
 
[X] Briefvoice

I'm just going to nod and smile at the building stuff. I'd have liked other names to win for the ships but it seems like the bandwagon is rolling, and they are solid names.
 
To be fair, I think we DO need to get back to the custom of naming explorers in honor of member species now that we're getting new members. I think we actually did hit 'one per member' but then the Gaeni showed up.
 
They can have the next one.

I nominate Curiosity and Pathfinder for the next Mars Ambassador pair.
I think naming four giant awesome kickass spaceships after Mars probes is enough. At some point, it's no better than naming all your United Federation of Planets ships Saratoga, Lexington, Yorktown, Bonhomme Richard, et cetera. Or (as was common in TNG/DS9) names like Berlin, Cairo, and Charleston that make you wonder where all the Vulcan and Betazoid city names are.

I think we can leave further commemoration of historical Earth probes to UESPA.

We're not going to have a second pair of Ambassadors coming out of Utopia Planitia until some time in the late 2320s; by that time we may have all manner of things to name them after.
 
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