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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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[X][CARGO] Look to heavily expand Starfleet's Auxiliary Shipyard production
-[X][AUX] By itself

[X][PEACE] Place under Starfleet Tactical
-[X][STAR] A robust organizational charter in consultation with the Pacifists, including authorized mission types and the requirements for deployment on each. Organic ships.

[X][GEAR] Should be more in line with Caitian Frontier Police
[X][SIZE] Should be larger, 12 battalions
[X][SUPPORT] Runabouts and shuttles (will require temporary access to Starfleet Shipyard Industrial Command resources, causing some delay)
 
Hazard said:
... Those are dangerous words to speak to group that's supposed to be independent Mrs. President.

... Very dangerous words.
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This is how politics works. This is how basic democracy works. She's not politicizing anything. She is criticisng an independent body for getting involved in a political process without even meeting with her.

IRL, Sulu probably would have been fired.
 
I thought the meeting would be more like:

President: can I have your loyalty?

Sulu: ... you can have my honesty.

President: So I can have your honest loyalty.
 
SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
I am amused by the lack of bitter end opposition. One would expect given how heavily the other vote went that some people would be willing to die on this hill.
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That's because we're getting what we want. The president as much as SAID she was going to ram this down our throat without any input from Starfleet given time to get her ducks in a row.

Now she's forced to negotiate with Sulu rather than dictate changes. For all her bullshit about the Amarkians using us, we owe them for warning us about this- yes, they can gain some advantage this way, but her proposed mandates if we didn't interfere would have been worse.
 
I'm actually leaning towards making it an independent Starfleet Command.

How does Ranger Corps sound?

Also, hello, Thuir.

[X][CARGO] Write in: A Self-supporting Fleet
-[X] Aim to have Starfleet's Fleet Support loop logistics requirements fully covered, the Feeder loop 75% covered, and the Industrial loop 75% covered by 2322.
-[X] Build another four dedicated auxiliary berths and assign general purpose berths as necessary, with member yards used if there are an opening.

[X][PEACE] Write-in: Ranger Corps
-[X][STAR] The Starfleet Ranger Corps will be a new command directly reporting to Commander, Starfleet.
-[X][STAR] Rear Admiral Michael Thuir will be its first commander.
[X][SIZE] Should be larger, 12 battalions
[X][SUPPORT] Write-in: Metric Tonnes of Pennies
-[X] Design a new Fast Transport class suitable for transporting small and bulk cargo, as well as people.
-[X] Runabouts and Shuttles
-[X] Use Sol's Heavy Industrial Complex for production
 
[x][CARGO] Look to heavily expand Starfleet's Auxiliary Shipyard production
-[x][AUX] By itself

I really don't want this group to be created. But as I'm guessing people aren't going to to go for bitter opposition it really should be kept small and be in the hands of the FDS or at least NOT Starfleet.

[x][PEACE] Suggest building it within the FDS
-[x][FDS] Dependent on Member Worlds for delivery

[X][GEAR] Should be more in line with Caitian Frontier Police
[x][SIZE] Should be smaller, 3 battalions
[x][SUPPORT] Groundcars and Aerobus attachments (small industrial requirement)
 
[ ][PEACE] Bitter-end opposition (may require resignation)
[ ][CARGO] Bitter-end opposition (may require resignation)

As a plank holding OG member of #N'GirMustFall I feel the pull of these options strongly, but almost certainly it would result in our resignation letter being slid across to the desk to us with a pen. And then she will appoint a political creature loyal to her whims.

I think it is good that our initial resistance has gained us the ability to influence is legislation, especially since it concerns us so heavily.

I'm not opposed to peacekeepers in principle, and I think if they are made, it is best that they are under our control.

All the better to prepare our deep state coup with. #RemoveKat
 
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anon_user said:
Ultimately, we serve at the pleasure of the President.
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Yes, but the President does not get to beat around Starfleet with her agenda until it yields. Starfleet serves the Federation, not the political agendas of the Council, and this has all the hallmarks of the latter.

If the President wants to press her party's agenda in the Council, she can do so. If it serves the Federation's interest and Starfleet's mandate, Starfleet will assist. But if she would dismiss a dissenter for dissenting no matter the arguments she's a terrible President.
 
[X][CARGO] Mix of Starfleet's Auxiliary Shipyard expansion and assigning Starfleet general purpose shipyard berths, supplemented by Member yards like now
[][CARGO] Look to heavily expand Starfleet's Auxiliary Shipyard production
-[][AUX] By itself
-[][AUX] Surge supplemented by other Member yards

[ ][PEACE] Suggest building it within the FDS
-[ ][FDS] Dependent on Starfleet for delivery
-[ ][FDS] Dependent on Member Worlds for delivery
-[ ][FDS] Organic Ships
[][PEACE] Suggest an independent body
-[][NEW] Organic Ships
-[ ][NEW] Organic Infrastructure
[][PEACE] Place under Starfleet Tactical
-[][STAR] A robust organizational charter in consultation with the Pacifists, including authorized mission types and the requirements for deployment on each. Organic ships.

[X][GEAR] Should be more in line with Caitian Frontier Police

[X][SIZE] As Proposed, 9 battalions

[ ][SUPPORT] Groundcars and Aerobus attachments (small industrial requirement)
[X][SUPPORT] Runabouts and shuttles (will require temporary access to Starfleet Shipyard Industrial Command resources, causing some delay)

I'll edit the rest in once a few hours have passed and I have a good idea what the main plans are.
Adhoc vote count started by Random Member on Jun 29, 2017 at 3:51 PM, finished with 55752 posts and 37 votes.
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[X][CARGO] Look to heavily expand Starfleet's Auxiliary Shipyard production
-[X][AUX] By itself

[X][PEACE] Suggest an independent body
-[X][NEW] Organic Ships

[X][GEAR] Should be more in line with MACOs (war-fighting capacity)

[X][SIZE] Should be larger, 12 battalions

[X][SUPPORT] Runabouts and shuttles (will require temporary access to Starfleet Shipyard Industrial Command resources, causing some delay)
 
Hazard said:
Yes, but the President does not get to beat around Starfleet with her agenda until it yields. Starfleet serves the Federation, not the political agendas of the Council, and this has all the hallmarks of the latter.

If the President wants to press her party's agenda in the Council, she can do so. If it serves the Federation's interest and Starfleet's mandate, Starfleet will assist. But if she would dismiss a dissenter for dissenting no matter the arguments she's a terrible President.
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N'Gir herself makes the point that our use of member world resources so heavily is harming the member worlds. Fixing that is perhaps the primary reason she was voted into place. I would agree that it's not even her agenda so much as it's the agenda of the voting public.

As for the rest, she didn't dismiss us, she asked for arguments.
 
OneirosTheWriter said:
...well, during the Orion Syndicate campaign, you had a total of 12 batalions from the CFP and used it to cover every minor colony, so really, I'm not sure what went wrong with everyone's expectations?
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As reinforcements to a member ground force on it's own turf.

From the first post of the event a lot of people were under the impression that this unit was meant to conduct independant operations, not do reinforcement duty.

anon_user said:
independent
of the civilian leadership of the UFP
See, those are dangerous words.

Ultimately, we serve at the pleasure of the President.
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First thing she said was that we were supposed to be on HER side. Not the Federation government's side. HER side. She was bitching us out for doing our goddamn job - which does include providing expert advice to the council.

Then she basically implied that she was going to fire her way into having a yes-man. IE: Pull a Nixon.

Oh, and the Homo Sapiens Only Club line.


[X][CARGO] Look to heavily expand Starfleet's Auxiliary Shipyard production
-[X][AUX] By itself

[x][PEACE] Suggest building it within the FDS
-[x][FDS] Dependent on Member Worlds for delivery

[X][GEAR] Should be more in line with Caitian Frontier Police
[x][SIZE] Should be smaller, 3 battalions
[x][SUPPORT] Groundcars and Aerobus attachments (small industrial requirement)
OneirosTheWriter said:
She's not here to be liked. She's here to HEY, STOP EATING ALL THE FREIGHTER-O's MAN, WTF??
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And here we have another part of the issue.

Namely that the biggest reason the frieghter crunch is happening is meta-level one - we haven't been meaningfully allowed to fix it. At least a few people are slightly annoyed about how contrived this problem is.
 
Also, I want to design a fast transport class.

My revised vote:
(This post has been edited multiple times to avoid clobbering votes with out-of-date versions)
[X][CARGO] Write in: A Self-supporting Fleet
-[X] Aim to have Starfleet's Fleet Support loop logistics requirements fully covered, the Feeder loop 75% covered, and the Industrial loop 75% covered by 2322.
-[X] Build a small number of dedicated auxiliary berths and assign general purpose berths as necessary, with member yards used if there are an opening.

[X][PEACE] Write-in: Ranger Corps
-[X][STAR] The Starfleet Ranger Corps will be a new command directly reporting to Commander, Starfleet.

[ ][PEACE] Write-in: Grow a Ranger Corps under Starfleet Security
-[X][STAR] The Starfleet Ranger Corps will be a new command under Starfleet Tactical, and will be subordinate to Starfleet Security until its size increases to a point where a separate command is warranted

[ ][PEACE] Write-in: Ranger Corps under Starfleet Tactical
-[X][STAR] The Starfleet Ranger Corps will be a new command under Starfleet Tactical

[X][GEAR] Should be more in line with Caitian Frontier Police

[X][SIZE] Write-in: Start Small and Grow
-[X] Start with 3 battalions as a pilot, growing the force if necessary

[ ][SUPPORT] Write-in: Pounds of Production
-[X] Runabouts and Shuttles
-[X] Use Sol's Heavy Industrial Complex for production

[X][SUPPORT] Write-in: Metric Tonnes of Pennies
-[X] Design a new Fast Transport class suitable for transporting small and bulk cargo, as well as people.
-[X] Runabouts and Shuttles
-[X] Use Sol's Heavy Industrial Complex for production

Key points/Explanation:
We'll aim for a realistic goal of organic fleet logistics. Feeder and Industrial, however, can wait.

Captain Rear Admiral Michael "Sensible" Thuir will be in charge of the Ranger Corps. Ranger was picked specifically for the Explorer-like connotations. Also, Peace Corp was taken.

Such a corps will need fast transports, and we shall design them. As a bonus, we should be able to improve our logistics with fast transports. Finally, using Sol's Heavy Industrial Complex means that impact will be minimal.
 
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[X][CARGO] Mix of Starfleet's Auxiliary Shipyard expansion and assigning Starfleet general purpose shipyard berths, supplemented by Member yards like now

[X][PEACE] Bitter-end opposition (May require resignation)

The Federation does not have a military. Any situation that this Peacekeeping force would be required to deal with can be handled by Starfleet and the Member Worlds. That's not a bug, it is literally how the system is supposed to work. It keeps Starfleet from having too much power, and from having to take on a more military role than their scientific exploration mission would entail.

Besides, how far is the step from Peacekeepers working in conjunction with Starlet, to Peacekeepers becoming the premier force of the Federation, and the scientific exploration mission is lost under the sea of a more traditional military force. I have no interest in seeing the Admirals and their explorers made second to a General.

EDIT: Also, does no one see the insanity in giving a bunch of Diplomats an army?!
 
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Hazard said:
Yes, but the President does not get to beat around Starfleet with her agenda until it yields. Starfleet serves the Federation, not the political agendas of the Council, and this has all the hallmarks of the latter.
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Uh.

Yes she does.

She's the President.

If the President wants to press her party's agenda in the Council, she can do so. If it serves the Federation's interest and Starfleet's mandate, Starfleet will assist. But if she would dismiss a dissenter for dissenting no matter the arguments she's a terrible President.
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There's 'dissenting' and then there's 'active opposition.' When you dissent as a bureaucrat you fight hard behind closed doors in a meeting with your boss the President, but you leave with a smile.

How would the following headlines look IRL?

"Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff rallies Congressmen to shut down President Obama's DADT repeal."
"Chief of the Defense Staff Johnathan Vance accused of colluding with opposition to ensure F-35 purchase."
"Closed-door meetings disclosed between MPs and Marshal Peach to shut down government logistics initiative."
 
@OneirosTheWriter would you say whether this is legal?

[][SUPPORT] Runabouts and shuttles, supplied by expanding regular production rather than a temporary rush (pp cost, possible delays)

This is not at all an issue of trying to weasel out of a disadvantageous downside, I don't even particularly care about how many pp it would cost, it's a matter of the mechanical cost completely breaking immersion for me. If I had to pick between the option presented and Sulu being forced to resign I would pick resigning in a heartbeat. If I cared less about this game than I do I would quit over this, and I in fact did quit reading several quests I was catching up on over immersion breakers like this.
 
SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
N'Gir herself makes the point that our use of member world resources so heavily is harming the member worlds. Fixing that is perhaps the primary reason she was voted into place. I would agree that it's not even her agenda so much as it's the agenda of the voting public.
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And Starfleet objected on the ground that doing it the way she proposed would harm the Federation's development.

SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
As for the rest, she didn't dismiss us, she asked for arguments.
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And rather strongly implied that if Sulu ever told her a flat no again he's fired.
 
Iron Wolf said:
Uh.

Yes she does.

She's the President.

There's 'dissenting' and then there's 'active opposition.' When you dissent as a bureaucrat you fight hard behind closed doors in a meeting with your boss the President, but you leave with a smile.

How would the following headlines look IRL?

"Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff rallies Congressmen to shut down President Obama's DADT repeal."
"Chief of the Defense Staff Johnathan Vance accused of colluding with opposition to ensure F-35 purchase."
"Closed-door meetings disclosed between MPs and Marshal Peach to shut down government logistics initiative."
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Lobbying/talking to the Council has been an element of the quest since day one.

It's literally what Snakepit turns are.

You're bitching about a core mechanic being shown on screen here.
 
SynchronizedWritersBlock said:
N'Gir herself makes the point that our use of member world resources so heavily is harming the member worlds. Fixing that is perhaps the primary reason she was voted into place. I would agree that it's not even her agenda so much as it's the agenda of the voting public.

As for the rest, she didn't dismiss us, she asked for arguments.
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...She was planning to make major changes to Starfleet without ever requesting input from the head of Starfleet or notifying him that changes were being proposed- she was wary if he got involed she'd have to compromise. She's only explaining her goal NOW because her bill failed and she has to compromise.

This is classic office politics, and yes, not talking to someone about proposed changes to their job before implementing the change is pretty nasty and unlikely to endear you to employees.

Her goals are perfectly understandable, and she may have the rosy view that as civilian head of the military she can just dictate to them and disregard their opinions, but her tactics were likely to propose solutions to the problem that didn't match reality for folks on the ground.
 
Hazard said:
And Starfleet objected on the ground that doing it the way she proposed would harm the Federation's development.
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But she said she's okay with implementing her mandate whatever way is possible as long as it works.

Hazard said:
And rather strongly implied that if Sulu ever told her a flat no again he's fired.
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As well he should be.


drake_azathoth said:
...She was planning to make major changes to Starfleet without ever requesting input from the head of Starfleet or notifying him that changes were being proposed- she was wary if he got involed she'd have to compromise. She's only explaining her goal NOW because her bill failed and she has to compromise.

This is classic office politics, and yes, not talking to someone about proposed changes to their job before implementing the change is pretty nasty and unlikely to endear you to employees.

Her goals are perfectly understandable, and she may have the rosy view that as civilian head of the military she can just dictate to them and disregard their opinions, but her tactics were likely to propose solutions to the problem that didn't match reality for folks on the ground.
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She said herself that there would be a lengthy consultation process. Flat wrong.
 
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