[X][PEACE] Go along with the deal
[X][CARGO] Avoid
[X][CARGO] Avoid
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
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Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
I'll go get Nash then.
pheonix89
Wants to be Seven Of Nine
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- North American Plaguelands
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And I just realize something: We've already seen the first situation where the Peacekeeping Force would have been used as a jackboot, not for actual peacekeeping. If we'd had it when the Caldonian trouble started, we'd have probably used it, and I doubt a pure combat/COIN unit would have cottoned on to the real problem as quickly as Mbeki's crew on Odyssey did, if they did at all. They would be much less likely to have people on hand who would be able to tell that a "pseudoscience cult" was actually promoting a very good extension of standard particle physics.
Edit: Which means that the 2316.Q1.M3 log might well end in a quantum warhead detonation rather than diplomancy because the Peacekeepers backed a bunch of high-energy physics wizards into a corner.
Edit: Which means that the 2316.Q1.M3 log might well end in a quantum warhead detonation rather than diplomancy because the Peacekeepers backed a bunch of high-energy physics wizards into a corner.
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Vebyast
Nascent Transhuman
[X][PEACE] Upset the apple cart
If we need ground forces, I'd much rather work with members' militaries to get those. Mostly because that's the best way to get animoo security forces. Everyone's going to look at the red dresses and dismiss them as just more red shirts and then they'll realize that red dresses are very much not red shirts.
[X][CARGO] Avoid
It looks to me like the actual political meat of the matter is "Order Starfleet to have enough auxiliaries" with an additional clause of "and have it done by <deadline>" so we don't drag our feet. This is not something that gives us a bonus to construction: This is "you would be spending PP like this for the next three years in order to meet this deadline". We can set the requirement ourselves if we want to, and TBH I think that that's probably something that we do want to do, but we're going to want to find a more efficient way to do it, possibly find a way to kill a few birds with one stone (for example, the proposed plans to build shitloads of general-purpose berths), and not give N'Gir credit for it. This should not be a political hot potato and I'm somewhat angry that it's become such.
If we need ground forces, I'd much rather work with members' militaries to get those. Mostly because that's the best way to get animoo security forces. Everyone's going to look at the red dresses and dismiss them as just more red shirts and then they'll realize that red dresses are very much not red shirts.
[X][CARGO] Avoid
It looks to me like the actual political meat of the matter is "Order Starfleet to have enough auxiliaries" with an additional clause of "and have it done by <deadline>" so we don't drag our feet. This is not something that gives us a bonus to construction: This is "you would be spending PP like this for the next three years in order to meet this deadline". We can set the requirement ourselves if we want to, and TBH I think that that's probably something that we do want to do, but we're going to want to find a more efficient way to do it, possibly find a way to kill a few birds with one stone (for example, the proposed plans to build shitloads of general-purpose berths), and not give N'Gir credit for it. This should not be a political hot potato and I'm somewhat angry that it's become such.
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pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
I've gotta say, I think this is the part that really grind my gears. I know the council is essentially our boss. I know they can act as they see fit, and I expect them to come to us with orders and ideas.
What really gets me is that we had to hear about this from some Amarki councillors who thought we already knew. It says that the development faction had absolutely zero intention of even consulting our opinion, let alone notifying us of the bill before it was done.
Edit:
Also, why the hell haven't I seen more Takei memes. We're standing on fertile ground, my friends. Let the bounty flow forth.
A photo of takei frowning literally can't be found, so here is Shatner. Disappointed with the developmentalists.
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- Location
- Central Standard Time
You and me both.
I guess that's a valid reason?
I too want to see more of the Federation
I would rather send in the Andorians - as light forces that are just above redshirts.
SFI Special Operations is both small and under a lot of oversight.
If I remember correctly, SFI office commanders are Commander or LTCDR billets. Thus, compared to the Peacekeepers, they are tiny.
I don't see how it would be politically more toxic to flood the street with redshirts than flood the street with Caitian troopers and Starfleet Black Ops.
This is the crux of the problem: per TBG canon, there has not been a new member admitted to the Federation for ~150 years at game start. Indeed, our long-standing affiliates were at 100 level. This has given the Core Four a lot of time to work out norms RE: jurisdiction, get their internal problems all sorted out, and be a really developed and tight-knit group. However, we are now admitting new members, some of which we've only known for a decade, at a pretty rapid clip, and a lot of them time they have some serious internal issues just under the surface that need to be worked out. We're looking at the Caledonians and Seyek in the near term, High-Level Yan-Ros criminals and Hoiani dissidents with War Plate in the long term.
There has been a need for Peacekeepers in the past, particularly in the Syndicate campaign, and ongoing with the Caldonians. There's liable to be an intense need for them in the future. I disagree fundamentally with the assertion that a Peacekeeper force will drive new members away, as the alternative is to have your world invaded instead by another species (AGAIN: CAITAIN. MILITARY. TROOPERS. WERE. THE. TIP. OF. OUR. SPEAR. IN. THE. SYNDICATE. CAMPAIGN.) A politically- and species-neutral force that can step in to help mediate and keep security in the streets? Sign me the fuck up. You don't think the Seyek would love that shit? What about the Quolathi for investigating corruption?
Further: it's good to have the peacekeepers under our jurisdiction. You think N'Gir is going to let this go? I can't wait for the hair being pulled out over FDS Peacekeepers getting deployed to places.
This is completely bullshit speculation.
Do any of y'all know how Peacekeepers are deployed IRL? Why is there this huge assumption that Starfleet Tactical is going to go completely evil, sprout devil horns, and start spraying phaser fire all over the place? Kick open doors and throw in grenades, leave no survivors? You're all acting like these guys are going to be out-of-control yahoos when in fact they'll be under our direct control and we can set their goals and ROE. Which is better than what we get with a lot of the other member species. Remember how we didn't want to send in the Amarki initially because there was serious concern they'd be too military with the Orions?
They could easily be a much more robust and expanded constabulary or police unit. This has massive practical applications and if we use them to help mediate and keep the peace, there's no reason to believe they'll be going full COIN and blowing apart buildings and backing anyone into any corners. That is what the Caldonians did. That's what flippin' T'Lorel has done. Why is this the assumption from a lot of people in this thread that the Peacekeepers are going to be automatically worse and inflame tensions versus literally random other folks? Why do they assume they'll be more out of control than some random MACOs?
Sulu absolutely cannot come out in public against this. If he did he would probably paradoxically assure the passage as the Expansionists can't be seen as the Starfleet Department of Political Influence. This is all court politics at this point.
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- Patriarchova
Isn't the point that by building these cargo ships and freighters, we ease the burden on our members' logistics in the long run?
I guess that's what happens when you put someone who's not entirely qualified into the top seat just to appeal to your voter base.
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Sulu doesn't have to come out in public against it, but I expect it to become publicly known that his disagreeing with the idea is the reason for its failure. We do have a strong free press and Sulu is deeply respected.
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Aww, that poor kitty! What did the cat ever do to you, huh?!
*grumble, grumble*
Ignoring whether or not it's a good idea, Sulu should totally be able to come out against it. He's almost certainly more popular than N'Gir to begin with and it's going to be hard to tank the rep anytime soon. The Expansionists also can totallly come out against it too since they have cover from the Pacificts, the Amarkians, and N'Girs own fellow cats. The ideas have merit but it's not worth doing them N'Gir's way with how she's acted and treated Starfleet so far.
Night
Widow Null
- Location
- Hoff
Then you missed the point that the Caitians are not Starfleet, they're Caitians, and they were acting based on Syndicate actions against the Caitians like assassinating a major political figure, and they're not military. They were Caitian Frontier Police, paramilitary at the most, and usually less.
They weren't even the tip of the spear against the Syndicate. The Syndicate was fought primarily by Orions of the PPU/ISSU/Aerocommandos, and the Amarki towards the end after the Syndicate M/AM'd their capital city. Starfleet and the CFP saw very little action comparatively. We didn't have boots on the ground at Duaba. We didn't have them on Celos. We didn't have them on Alukk. You've completely forgotten how the Syndicate campaign actually went.
As for the fifty people that compose Starfleet's equivalent of GSG-9, we'd have them regardless, because sometimes you have to rescue important hostages or otherwise need what amounts to an elite SWAT unit. The fact they can execute offensive missions really comes down to having the tools as a result of their other missions. Once you can do an explosive entry breach and clear, you can also sabotage things along the way.
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Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
Perhaps because they are complete incompetents who are totally incapable of communicating with Starfleet? Sulu found this out by accident. It's clear that not only has N'Gir's administration not consulted Starfleet on the matter, but it's quite possible that they've deliberately avoided letting Starfleet know.
God bless you N'Gir! You're the president that Admirals Cartwright and Rogers always wanted.
Oh wait...
Oh wait...
- Location
- Patriarchova
We never had a bad experience with Development until failcat came along. Lets not tar the entire party just yet.
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
Well, I did specify N'Gir's administration...
pheonix89
Wants to be Seven Of Nine
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- North American Plaguelands
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- She/Her
I'm assuming that they're going to approach it as a military COIN operation, not an investigation, and that they're a lot less likely to have anyone on hand who speaks bleeding-edge physics.
Which means that they're NOT going to find out that there's a jackboot element in play. And in the 2316.Q1 event that means they don't know that A. the government is the wrong here and B. they're backing a bunch of bleeding-edge physicists into a corner in Star Trek.
It's relatively solved once and for all. Members agree to keep up a maintenance rate of builds, which only makes sense as an increase in accordance with demand.
[X][PEACE] Upset the apple cart
[X][CARGO] Avoid
[X][CARGO] Avoid
I am pretty sure that the Caldonian agreement specially mentions the stationing of Federation peacekeeping forces there...There have also been repeated mentions of "rebellious" or "separatist" colonies in the captains logs that may well have benefited from the deployment of a multinational peacekeeping force. Then there are the Seyek, Honani and the Orions which all have internal issues that could be helped by an impartial observer and security force like this and the possible war against the Cardassians...
Night
Widow Null
- Location
- Hoff
Then you should probably have read all my other posts pointing out how those situations are either ones we weren't wanted or it wasn't a useful tool for the situation.
I'm not a fan of 'no you' argumentation, but you're actually forgetting how this went. The Caitian Frontier Police were the frontline unit on the 12 smaller worlds they were deployed on and our primary force on Amepa.
We authorized them, we told them where to go, and they were the law and order on an entire planet and 12 others. That's practically military occupation, and we were lucky enough that the Caitians play nice. Also, we ate a militarization point for it. Which we probably won't have to if we have our own forces in-house.
It's a completely fear-mongering assumption to assume the Starfleet Peacekeepers, whom we have direct command authority over, are going to treat it as anything other than what we tell them to treat it like. It's also bizarre to assume the Andorians and Caitians would be better at this than us.