- Location
- Australia
Even if we can't burn them with piping hot plasma, surely we can research something better then arming security with phasers.
To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
- Start date
- Sci-Fi
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- Tags
- star trek exploration fully automated luxury gay space communism top level canon (canon) #hashtagcontent all-encompassing space amoeba cardassian boy bands cardassian magical girls darkest bureaucracy debate makes the qm cackle like palpatine hoh is an empire quest it has to be foreign infiltrators more ships ship happens singers delenda est starfleet this is not an empire quest ur waifu is collective?
- Location
- Patriarchova
Everyone else uses phasers, or weapons with similar overall performance to phasers. What should they be using?
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
A phaser beam is quite capable of striking a man and leaving nothing behind but a faint colored outline as his body disintegrates in a fraction of a second. The phasers are NOT the problem.
As to what is the problem... well, firstly it's not actually clear that our shipboard security is chronically inadequate. Yes, we take casualties, but so do the boarding parties. We haven't seen anyone infiltrating our ships with cartoonish ease, or slaughtering half a dozen redshirts unless they have some kind of truly improbable edge.
- Location
- Australia
Internal stun phaser coverage on the main accessways to knockout boarders, rogue guests and alien life form influenced personelle. Basically anyone who cannot for whatever reason be beamed straight to the brig.
It's not the weapon that's the issue, it's that afterboarding the federation relies on hand eye coordination to win the day, when they could do so much better.
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Night
Widow Null
- Location
- Hoff
Actually, they might be in that sense. You really don't want to go around trashing the ship's internal systems as long as you don't want to be incinerated by EPS plasma or unable to breathe because you just shot a life support relay so security is probably reluctant to use kill settings in general and higher ones in specific. Fighting aboard a spaceship is always a balance between lethality and possibly doing really bad stuff to everyone in the people locker.
EDIT: And the balance is different for an attacker, generally. The defender wants to be able to fly away eventually; the attacker is trying to neutralize the ship first and then capture it and so has less reason to care if somebody accidentally vaporized the reaction mass feeder lines for the impulse drive.
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On the other hand, the attacker isn't opposed to not dying either. These facts generally limit the potential damage hand carried weapons are designed to do in boarding fights.
Of course, those dinky banana phasers are still designed to be able to fire a few shots at the 'messy outline' power level and can achieve that level by dialing up the phaser. Starfleet isn't stupid, sometimes you actually need to be able to kill something deader than normal dead. They just generally prefer the 'will be useful and give us prisoners to interrogate level' over the 'we might accidentally the ship, especially if we fight in Engineering' level.
Our captains have the ability to issue Type 3 Phaser Rifles if they think heavy combat is imminent. We see this regularly on the show when the captain expects boarders, like when the Klingons attacked DS9.
- Location
- Australia
You have a lot to deal with right now.
In a relative sense, of course. As the man in charge of Starfleet, your "not much on your plate" was still an inbox that if ever rendered into paper form would cause your average aerobus to crash. Even eight months in top billing has taught you that much. Right about now, however, you have so much on your plate that you can just about hear the wailing of the supercomputers struggling under the load of your inbox as if this were a dungeon from the days of your musketeer stories.
Only part of it is to do with the three Amarkian Councillors currently being escorted through your lobby to meet you. But as they are here in person, they are the ones who you need to talk to first. Linderley after that. And then the Councillor from Ollasa IV, otherwise known as President of the United Federation of Planets.
"Councillor Korielis," you greet as they pass through the door. "Councillor Aelanna, Councillor Cufriec, so glad you could join us. Care for tea?"
Korielis holds up a hand. "No thank you, Admiral. We had our tea with breakfast before we stepped on the transporter. Although don't let us stop you."
One advantage your lifetime of adventure has given you is that you get a certain deference from the Amarkian contingent to Council. Which leads to opportunities like today. "You're here about the President's plans for the Starfleet peacekeeping force?"
All three Councillors freeze, then exchange a sharp look. "You've heard of that already?" asks Councillor Cufriec.
Damn. This is not the reaction you expect for talking about shifting a handful of ships to babysit the Caldonians. What is the President up to? "Yes, I've heard," you say. "I find things run a lot more smoothly when you keep your ear to the ground, after all."
"Right, well, I can tell you that us and the other Caitians are against it because we don't like seeing our own forces edged out. The Pacifists as a bloc are unhappy with the idea of further expanding Starfleet's charter. I'm told some of them have long memories of the MACOs, after all."
'The MACOs?', you wonder to yourself.
Korielis continues on, heedless to the shockwave bouncing to and fro in your brain. "But the Development and Mercantile faactions are both four-square behind it. I suppose you might go either way, but I want you to know that if you want to fight the President's plans for a Starfleet Peacekeeping corps, we can make it happen."
-
Half an hour later and you get them out of the office with a careful fat lot of nothing agreed to, but a few more bombshells dropped, and are immediately on the intercom to every Admiral's greatest frenemy: Vice Admiral Linderley.
"Linderley, get up here, and when you get here I want you to explain how it was no one knew the Council was doing studies on fitting us out for a jacket of ground-pounding deadweight."
"...excuse me, Admiral?"
"Move."
-
You have received advanced news of a few plans from the President. Enough time to form a coordinated and cohesive opposition if you want to fight them.
Intention 1:
Reform Starfleet Tactical Command in order to establish a permanent Peacekeeping force that can be used to deploy to conflict zones like the Orion Syndicate campaign, or to places like Caldonia.
If enacted, it will shift some of the electoral balance away from the Pacifists to the Development faction, and the reverse if refused.
If enacted, all current builds will take on +1Qtr of build time to represent a redirection of your industrial assets to make the necessary runabouts, shuttles, and the like, plus a campaign of auxiliary building will need to be undertaken.
[ ][PEACE] Go along with the deal
[ ][PEACE] Upset the apple cart
Intention 2:
Force on Starfleet the requirement to become "transport-neutral" - to have freighters and cargo ships equal to their shipping requirements, so you don't have to mobilise from member worlds, by 2322. You would be forced to set aside 50pp /yr for the next three years for T'Faer to borrow yards for auxiliary builds, with the rest produced by an agreement of the member worlds.
If enacted, the electoral balance moves away from expansionists towards the development faction.
[ ][CARGO] Agree
[ ][CARGO] Avoid
In a relative sense, of course. As the man in charge of Starfleet, your "not much on your plate" was still an inbox that if ever rendered into paper form would cause your average aerobus to crash. Even eight months in top billing has taught you that much. Right about now, however, you have so much on your plate that you can just about hear the wailing of the supercomputers struggling under the load of your inbox as if this were a dungeon from the days of your musketeer stories.
Only part of it is to do with the three Amarkian Councillors currently being escorted through your lobby to meet you. But as they are here in person, they are the ones who you need to talk to first. Linderley after that. And then the Councillor from Ollasa IV, otherwise known as President of the United Federation of Planets.
"Councillor Korielis," you greet as they pass through the door. "Councillor Aelanna, Councillor Cufriec, so glad you could join us. Care for tea?"
Korielis holds up a hand. "No thank you, Admiral. We had our tea with breakfast before we stepped on the transporter. Although don't let us stop you."
One advantage your lifetime of adventure has given you is that you get a certain deference from the Amarkian contingent to Council. Which leads to opportunities like today. "You're here about the President's plans for the Starfleet peacekeeping force?"
All three Councillors freeze, then exchange a sharp look. "You've heard of that already?" asks Councillor Cufriec.
Damn. This is not the reaction you expect for talking about shifting a handful of ships to babysit the Caldonians. What is the President up to? "Yes, I've heard," you say. "I find things run a lot more smoothly when you keep your ear to the ground, after all."
"Right, well, I can tell you that us and the other Caitians are against it because we don't like seeing our own forces edged out. The Pacifists as a bloc are unhappy with the idea of further expanding Starfleet's charter. I'm told some of them have long memories of the MACOs, after all."
'The MACOs?', you wonder to yourself.
Korielis continues on, heedless to the shockwave bouncing to and fro in your brain. "But the Development and Mercantile faactions are both four-square behind it. I suppose you might go either way, but I want you to know that if you want to fight the President's plans for a Starfleet Peacekeeping corps, we can make it happen."
-
Half an hour later and you get them out of the office with a careful fat lot of nothing agreed to, but a few more bombshells dropped, and are immediately on the intercom to every Admiral's greatest frenemy: Vice Admiral Linderley.
"Linderley, get up here, and when you get here I want you to explain how it was no one knew the Council was doing studies on fitting us out for a jacket of ground-pounding deadweight."
"...excuse me, Admiral?"
"Move."
-
You have received advanced news of a few plans from the President. Enough time to form a coordinated and cohesive opposition if you want to fight them.
Intention 1:
Reform Starfleet Tactical Command in order to establish a permanent Peacekeeping force that can be used to deploy to conflict zones like the Orion Syndicate campaign, or to places like Caldonia.
If enacted, it will shift some of the electoral balance away from the Pacifists to the Development faction, and the reverse if refused.
If enacted, all current builds will take on +1Qtr of build time to represent a redirection of your industrial assets to make the necessary runabouts, shuttles, and the like, plus a campaign of auxiliary building will need to be undertaken.
[ ][PEACE] Go along with the deal
[ ][PEACE] Upset the apple cart
Intention 2:
Force on Starfleet the requirement to become "transport-neutral" - to have freighters and cargo ships equal to their shipping requirements, so you don't have to mobilise from member worlds, by 2322. You would be forced to set aside 50pp /yr for the next three years for T'Faer to borrow yards for auxiliary builds, with the rest produced by an agreement of the member worlds.
If enacted, the electoral balance moves away from expansionists towards the development faction.
[ ][CARGO] Agree
[ ][CARGO] Avoid
Just my gut feelings:
[X][PEACE] Upset the apple cart
[X][CARGO] Avoid
It reads like the President wants to move Starfleet all the way to an independent, full blown military force.
Starfleet may have a military role, but that is not it's primary mission. And certainly not building an army.
Starfleet being beholden to the members for auxiliary support may make some grumble, but it does help keep us from becoming too independent.
It's not that long ago that Starfleet was heavily discredited by traitors in the top ranks - those with long memories would be very upset to see such a power creep going on.
[X][PEACE] Upset the apple cart
[X][CARGO] Avoid
It reads like the President wants to move Starfleet all the way to an independent, full blown military force.
Starfleet may have a military role, but that is not it's primary mission. And certainly not building an army.
Starfleet being beholden to the members for auxiliary support may make some grumble, but it does help keep us from becoming too independent.
It's not that long ago that Starfleet was heavily discredited by traitors in the top ranks - those with long memories would be very upset to see such a power creep going on.
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I'm not necessarily opposed to a peacekeeping force. We've had evidence that peacekeeping is something that we've done regularly. The issues are basically:
- It removes member world input into peacekeeping issues, taking away the necessity of coalition-building to gain member world support for such things and for people to front political capital when peacekeepers are needed, in the form of offering troops
- We may not need it, because our member worlds already have peacekeeping forces that have been perfectly adequate for every peacekeeping situation we've encountered
- It shouldn't be politicized
Six years to transport neutral is two sets of freighter builds. We would need to build approximately 12 freighters and 16 cargo ships, likely a few additional for slack. So we will tie up about 12 member world berths for six full years (for the price of 150pp). Or in other words, 24 cruisers, or 36 frigates.
- It removes member world input into peacekeeping issues, taking away the necessity of coalition-building to gain member world support for such things and for people to front political capital when peacekeepers are needed, in the form of offering troops
- We may not need it, because our member worlds already have peacekeeping forces that have been perfectly adequate for every peacekeeping situation we've encountered
- It shouldn't be politicized
Six years to transport neutral is two sets of freighter builds. We would need to build approximately 12 freighters and 16 cargo ships, likely a few additional for slack. So we will tie up about 12 member world berths for six full years (for the price of 150pp). Or in other words, 24 cruisers, or 36 frigates.
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- Location
- Germany
[X][CARGO] Agree
That will hurt for the next few years, but getting that bit more of logistical independance can help a lot in future crises. Especially when some members are unhappy about helping out again, it'll be good to be able to fill the gaps ourself.
[X][PEACE] Upset the apple cart
This on the other hand, is something we can either deal case-by-case with, using friendly peacekeeping forces and our own security, or something they can build a seperate organisation for.
That will hurt for the next few years, but getting that bit more of logistical independance can help a lot in future crises. Especially when some members are unhappy about helping out again, it'll be good to be able to fill the gaps ourself.
[X][PEACE] Upset the apple cart
This on the other hand, is something we can either deal case-by-case with, using friendly peacekeeping forces and our own security, or something they can build a seperate organisation for.
If N'Gir wants to harm her own options of civilian oversight that's her problem.
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That's been the speculation from those who oppose taking action on logistics, not any established fact.
Interestingly, both options remove some civilian oversight from Starfleet.
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Thors_Alumni
Proud member of Thors Class VII from Liberl
- Location
- Liberl Zemuria.
[X][CARGO] Avoid
I am all for better logistics so I agree with the vote.
The other one on the other hand is something I am extremely wary of. I am going to have to think about it a while.
[X][PEACE] Upset the apple cart
Actually never mind. I just remembered that if we do it it will increase the build times on all of our ship construction and that is something I am completely against.
The other one on the other hand is something I am extremely wary of. I am going to have to think about it a while.
[X][PEACE] Upset the apple cart
Actually never mind. I just remembered that if we do it it will increase the build times on all of our ship construction and that is something I am completely against.
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[X][PEACE] Upset the apple cart
[X][CARGO] Agree
There seems to be significant opposition to the peacekeeping proposal in Council. Development plus Mercantilists is sixteen seats out of forty-four, nowhere near a majority. It seems, in a word, pushed. I get why it would be a Caitian local issue, but no one would expect the Caitians to send troops anywhere for a while. We have literal peacekeepers from Andor who would be happy to take on the Caldonian issue. And that will go on for every time we need these troops. It's a good thing to be drawing on our member worlds in this way.
Come back when the Pacifists propose the peacekeepers and I'd trust the proposal a lot more.
On the other hand, I think we widely agree that getting rid of the cargo issue will be beneficial both to avoid the constant political topic and will be useful in wartime.
[X][CARGO] Agree
There seems to be significant opposition to the peacekeeping proposal in Council. Development plus Mercantilists is sixteen seats out of forty-four, nowhere near a majority. It seems, in a word, pushed. I get why it would be a Caitian local issue, but no one would expect the Caitians to send troops anywhere for a while. We have literal peacekeepers from Andor who would be happy to take on the Caldonian issue. And that will go on for every time we need these troops. It's a good thing to be drawing on our member worlds in this way.
Come back when the Pacifists propose the peacekeepers and I'd trust the proposal a lot more.
On the other hand, I think we widely agree that getting rid of the cargo issue will be beneficial both to avoid the constant political topic and will be useful in wartime.
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Both options give a big boost to Development... which seems to be the faction that least favors Starfleet.
- Location
- Germany
I'm not sure about firing. Isn't it usually the council asking to step down, or at worst firing, the commander, not the President herself?
Mr. Mica
Capitalism cannot fix Global Warming.
- Location
- Earth
This sort of thing is what validates my concern for President Cat.
Even if streamlining logistics seems like a good idea, giving Cat even a small win here might make the politician reach for the shoulder.
[X][PEACE] Upset the apple cart
[X][CARGO] Avoid
Even if streamlining logistics seems like a good idea, giving Cat even a small win here might make the politician reach for the shoulder.
[X][PEACE] Upset the apple cart
[X][CARGO] Avoid
- Location
- Maybe?
Can we just ask N'Gir what's up?
It doesn't seem entirely implausible to me that she's simply not aware of the historic and political meaning of these restrictions.
It doesn't seem entirely implausible to me that she's simply not aware of the historic and political meaning of these restrictions.
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