Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
I'd like a thought-acceleration - or something like that - head meridian art. Wait, what do head meridians do, again?
Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Fantasy
Frankly I think leaving Han Jian to stew in his own jealousy for another week is significantly less likely to destroy his social link entirely than the current addendum to his action in []swift as a coursing river.
That's overly dramatic, don't you think? I'm skeptical this is the last week we ever have a chance to reaffirm our relationship with Han Jian. If we totally ignored him for the next few weeks? Yeah maybe. But no single vote can accomplish that, so it's not a reasonable burden to place on it.
I'm actually open to voting for an action with a personal Han Jian social action. I like the guy. I see the current approach as being antithetical to my preferences in that regard.
While I'm not voting for you, and thus have limited ground to stand on in saying anything about your plan, I do want to note that I'm amused by you, the vote's author, explicitly characterizing the sub vote as an effort to merge the two groups together even while some among your supporters insist that it is not.
Arkeus
Crazy cat guy
- Location
- France
Sensory stuff, so yeah I'm expecting Spine/Head to be bullet time martial art.
TheLastOne
Person of impeccable tastes (for destruction)
I think if we don't do something to help the group get to the vent, we'll only be able to keep the Xuilan social link, and even that might get strained.
- Location
- USA
The vote was edited several times.
I already conceded that the latest phrasing addresses this problem, as it now specifically states to ask them first.
Although that in itself is still problematic since they are liable to be pressured by MC into making a mistake and saying yes, as per
https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/posts/8594368/
and several other good writeups on why this is probably going to explode horribly
- Location
- United States of America
It is what it is. The sub vote is the path upon which a merging might be possible, but there are other paths to take regarding the sub vote. I don't have a preference, either way, to be honest, which is why my plans tend to be fluid.
I'm fine with the subclause being removed. I just really want to have an action with Han Jian.
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I might agree with you if they were buying our place at the vent but since they will just be using it additionally we really can't be expected to charge so much. Since they are our allies though, even if not the duo's, we also get the added benefit of friends that can keep up with us and if they can do so while still putting on hold future attempts to "meld groups" all the better.
The top 8 is a good argument but I'd say it's a good argument that should be put to the duo so that they can make an informed decision rather than us doing so for them. As Suyin said
They might not even want to compete for an Inner Sect position
- Location
- USA
Only 8 slots for inner disciple, they are competition to li and lu. And competition that has treated them poorly at that.
How much are they going to offer the two girls? is it going to be enough to be a worthwhile deal?
I doubt that.
at most might not believe they have a shot though.
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Arkeus
Crazy cat guy
- Location
- France
So, I was thinking of the tournament for top 8 at the end of the year.
And I've decided that after hacking @yrsillar's computer it will be a free for all tournament. It basically means that it includes such things as the characters of the various contender, the alliances they have made and their ability to deal with real life.
It's totally not because it basically ensures us winning.
And I've decided that after hacking @yrsillar's computer it will be a free for all tournament. It basically means that it includes such things as the characters of the various contender, the alliances they have made and their ability to deal with real life.
It's totally not because it basically ensures us winning.
- Location
- United States of America
@Katreus Although I appreciate the vigor that you have defended the sub vote in my plan, and although it pains me, I am probably going to remove it at this point because of the very real concerns that have been given about the sub votes possibility to ruin the social link. I would rather focus the action on improving our relation with Han Jian, and even though I believe that a merger is possible and might even be beneficial, the timing and risks associated with it have me reconsidering the value of the subclause.
As such, unless there is serious discontention among the people voting for my plan, I am removing the subclause.
I am sorry.
Edit: The vote has been changed.
As such, unless there is serious discontention among the people voting for my plan, I am removing the subclause.
I am sorry.
Edit: The vote has been changed.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Bonuses are good, but it's unclear how much bonus.
Say... 5 meridians was:
It's possible that 3 meridians was just gaining 1 health level instead of 2, and 10 would have been 3 health levels, which is nifty, but hardly anywhere near as big as the rest of it together. OTOH, it's possible that 3 is nothing and 10 would have doubled every benefit.
This is interesting, particularly in context of the meeting. We're being judged and evaluated, watched, even if the rules really aren't being strictly enforced. It makes sense that you would judge more holistically for promotions (a very socially able cultivator that is strong and gets along with others, but wouldn't be the absolute strongest might be more worthwhile than a Bai or Huang or Ji Rong for example, all else equal.)
Perhaps this influences options once joining the inner sect. Alternatively, participation in the tournament might be shaped a little in the background. The simplest way would be to shape the brackets for this. It's possible to give everyone a relatively easy path to the top 8, or stick all the peak yellow/green against each other as desired. If, say, Ji Rong and Huang Da are both thought to be problematic, you could pair them off in round 1 for an intense, draining, fight that eliminates one for sure and leaves the next weakened to go up against a Cai or Meizhen in the second round.
That said, there's 8 combat and 8 production slots. It seems like 10 people have stood out so far in our year. Some of them might suffer mishaps or fall behind, but this seems essentially unlikely given the backing/rules involved. Much more likely is that a few people are laying low, and that some late bloomers will jump in to the show near the end.
However, those with the basic abilities and talents to get in to the inner sect probably number 13-14. Of those, 6 won't get in, roughly half. However, that's just our year. This is a good class, but it's unlikely that this is entirely crazy compared to the standard. So, let's assume most years have 10ish people that are good for it and go in on combat. This means that at minimum 2 aren't making it who could/should. Carry this forward to their exams, where some people from prior years took slots, (and assuming most who can't do it with 2+ years advantage are giving up) and we're looking at maybe 4 competing for slots from years above us. These should probably be favoredish to win, though it's hard to say they really have more training than a Meizhen or Cai, so maybe not. That gives 14 as a reasonable number of solid competitors for the combat portion of the trial.
Of these, the 4 higher years are almost certainly peak yellow/green (breaking through, with just AS and our talent, is maybe 6-7 months. Dropping talent to average and multiplying the time by 3 seems like it'd still lead to breakthroughs). The best of the nobles in our year started out in yellow and have plenty of time to hit green if they want, which leads to maybe another 4-5. Then the geniuses among the commoners are also likely to pass the set advantage the nobles have from early resources, unless they get more pills/etc later in a panic to push through. Consequently, it's very probable that the tournament itself will have more than 8 early green+ competitors.
We're also not a direct combat build, and won't do very well if we try to pivot to that. A tournament, with little cover to hide in, no allies, and a small arena that minimizes range, would be a bad stage for us, if not one we can't work around with our skillset and specialties. What this means, is that we should probably not plan on punching up absent some very strange conditions.
In other words, it's very probable that we'll have minuscule odds of joining the inner sect this year unless we're green/bronze. Even if we are green/bronze, we should conservatively estimate a maybe 50% chance of getting in without some other major ace in the hole.
Now, without factoring in EPC/AS5's permanent bonuses, we're likely looking at 6-7 months to hit both assuming we train both spiritual and physical every week. We'll be able to make better guesses once we have AS mastered and a rank or two in EPC, but since we can't go back in time, this likely means that we should probably train spiritual/physical very frequently.
Another extension of this is that of those who have a reasonable expectation of aiming for the inner sect it's the ones who stand out now, but have relatively little going for them besides more starting knowledge and earlier cultivation, that are actually in the worst spot. Those that came in at yellow seem to either be talented or have backing a degree higher than others and are fairly safe either in joining the inner sect or being fine on progression without (even if being a bit of an embarrassment) . By contrast, those under the most pressure are going to be the Han Jian's of the world. It's not simply jealousy here then, but rather the knowledge that every spot in the inner sect is rivalrous and that anyone being talented seriously reduces your odds of joining.
Absent a more grounded confrontation, we have relatively little to fear from those at the very top of the curve. If they don't make it in, it won't be because their core cultivation was too weak to hold up. Likewise, the Ji Rong's of the world that started out where we have don't have much freedom or need to pick off others. Training unimpeded means we have a good shot of getting there, purely by the numbers.
However, for the people in Han Jian's (or even Huang Da's) position, now is the ideal time to try to mess up a rival. Push them/us down now before we're too strong to beat and they can keep their place relative to others higher. They have backing in the real world to handle a grudge from someone talented who lacks any of their own, and likely elder siblings and whatnot that might help. Robbing, breaking bones, denying resources, etc is not only a way to get stronger, but a way to push down those who could be taking a slot.
The other extension is that we may want to try to scope out the production/non-combat competition, as well as those in the outer sect who've been here a bit longer. Knowing who may decide to compete there, and what the odds look like will give us a much better picture of what to expect in our own brackets.
Having every opening in the sect be rivalrous is ultimately rather dangerous.
As for voting, I'm not sure. Sharing the vent seems iffy, but we should definitely shore up Han Jian if we can (again, there's a lot of reasons to think this is less about neglect and more about the increasingly real realization that we may be taking what would otherwise be his slot in the inner sect).
Ji Rong is actually probably a good candidate for a social link. He seems to potentially be the prisoner chargen option, clearly has talent and clearly has a grudge against Huang's family (of some sort or another, he may have murdered one if the present member's behavior is indicative). He's also in a similar position to us.
Say... 5 meridians was:
It's possible that 3 meridians was just gaining 1 health level instead of 2, and 10 would have been 3 health levels, which is nifty, but hardly anywhere near as big as the rest of it together. OTOH, it's possible that 3 is nothing and 10 would have doubled every benefit.
This is interesting, particularly in context of the meeting. We're being judged and evaluated, watched, even if the rules really aren't being strictly enforced. It makes sense that you would judge more holistically for promotions (a very socially able cultivator that is strong and gets along with others, but wouldn't be the absolute strongest might be more worthwhile than a Bai or Huang or Ji Rong for example, all else equal.)
Perhaps this influences options once joining the inner sect. Alternatively, participation in the tournament might be shaped a little in the background. The simplest way would be to shape the brackets for this. It's possible to give everyone a relatively easy path to the top 8, or stick all the peak yellow/green against each other as desired. If, say, Ji Rong and Huang Da are both thought to be problematic, you could pair them off in round 1 for an intense, draining, fight that eliminates one for sure and leaves the next weakened to go up against a Cai or Meizhen in the second round.
That said, there's 8 combat and 8 production slots. It seems like 10 people have stood out so far in our year. Some of them might suffer mishaps or fall behind, but this seems essentially unlikely given the backing/rules involved. Much more likely is that a few people are laying low, and that some late bloomers will jump in to the show near the end.
However, those with the basic abilities and talents to get in to the inner sect probably number 13-14. Of those, 6 won't get in, roughly half. However, that's just our year. This is a good class, but it's unlikely that this is entirely crazy compared to the standard. So, let's assume most years have 10ish people that are good for it and go in on combat. This means that at minimum 2 aren't making it who could/should. Carry this forward to their exams, where some people from prior years took slots, (and assuming most who can't do it with 2+ years advantage are giving up) and we're looking at maybe 4 competing for slots from years above us. These should probably be favoredish to win, though it's hard to say they really have more training than a Meizhen or Cai, so maybe not. That gives 14 as a reasonable number of solid competitors for the combat portion of the trial.
Of these, the 4 higher years are almost certainly peak yellow/green (breaking through, with just AS and our talent, is maybe 6-7 months. Dropping talent to average and multiplying the time by 3 seems like it'd still lead to breakthroughs). The best of the nobles in our year started out in yellow and have plenty of time to hit green if they want, which leads to maybe another 4-5. Then the geniuses among the commoners are also likely to pass the set advantage the nobles have from early resources, unless they get more pills/etc later in a panic to push through. Consequently, it's very probable that the tournament itself will have more than 8 early green+ competitors.
We're also not a direct combat build, and won't do very well if we try to pivot to that. A tournament, with little cover to hide in, no allies, and a small arena that minimizes range, would be a bad stage for us, if not one we can't work around with our skillset and specialties. What this means, is that we should probably not plan on punching up absent some very strange conditions.
In other words, it's very probable that we'll have minuscule odds of joining the inner sect this year unless we're green/bronze. Even if we are green/bronze, we should conservatively estimate a maybe 50% chance of getting in without some other major ace in the hole.
Now, without factoring in EPC/AS5's permanent bonuses, we're likely looking at 6-7 months to hit both assuming we train both spiritual and physical every week. We'll be able to make better guesses once we have AS mastered and a rank or two in EPC, but since we can't go back in time, this likely means that we should probably train spiritual/physical very frequently.
Another extension of this is that of those who have a reasonable expectation of aiming for the inner sect it's the ones who stand out now, but have relatively little going for them besides more starting knowledge and earlier cultivation, that are actually in the worst spot. Those that came in at yellow seem to either be talented or have backing a degree higher than others and are fairly safe either in joining the inner sect or being fine on progression without (even if being a bit of an embarrassment) . By contrast, those under the most pressure are going to be the Han Jian's of the world. It's not simply jealousy here then, but rather the knowledge that every spot in the inner sect is rivalrous and that anyone being talented seriously reduces your odds of joining.
Absent a more grounded confrontation, we have relatively little to fear from those at the very top of the curve. If they don't make it in, it won't be because their core cultivation was too weak to hold up. Likewise, the Ji Rong's of the world that started out where we have don't have much freedom or need to pick off others. Training unimpeded means we have a good shot of getting there, purely by the numbers.
However, for the people in Han Jian's (or even Huang Da's) position, now is the ideal time to try to mess up a rival. Push them/us down now before we're too strong to beat and they can keep their place relative to others higher. They have backing in the real world to handle a grudge from someone talented who lacks any of their own, and likely elder siblings and whatnot that might help. Robbing, breaking bones, denying resources, etc is not only a way to get stronger, but a way to push down those who could be taking a slot.
The other extension is that we may want to try to scope out the production/non-combat competition, as well as those in the outer sect who've been here a bit longer. Knowing who may decide to compete there, and what the odds look like will give us a much better picture of what to expect in our own brackets.
Having every opening in the sect be rivalrous is ultimately rather dangerous.
As for voting, I'm not sure. Sharing the vent seems iffy, but we should definitely shore up Han Jian if we can (again, there's a lot of reasons to think this is less about neglect and more about the increasingly real realization that we may be taking what would otherwise be his slot in the inner sect).
Ji Rong is actually probably a good candidate for a social link. He seems to potentially be the prisoner chargen option, clearly has talent and clearly has a grudge against Huang's family (of some sort or another, he may have murdered one if the present member's behavior is indicative). He's also in a similar position to us.
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Thor's plan doesn't imply they aren't buying the vent unfortunately. What can easily pass is that Su Ling insisting they pay shitloads to access the vent, Ling Qi decides on a compromise price, and then our other friends(minus Fan Yu) get offered something terrible.
With vote changed I have no complaints.
[X] Plan As Swift as a Coursing River
[X] Plan As Swift as a Coursing River
TheLastOne
Person of impeccable tastes (for destruction)
There are eight slots... and Sun Liling, Bai Meizhen, Kang Zihao, Huang Da, and Ji Rong will be taking FIVE of them. Assume there's someone from last year who got unlucky, but is strong, making that six spots locked down. Not to be mean, but Su Ling and Li Suyin aren't catching up with us. That doesn't mean we're in of course... but that seven.
They really aren't making it in, but they might benefit from training or resources if they make a deal with Han Jian.
- Location
- USA
On the subject of pricing the vent... it gives 1 yellow stone worth (so, 10 RS), plus some argent specific bonuses that, based on looking at the shop, should cost about 15 RS as well (argent accumulation plus argument elixir plus a little extra). Its main advantage is that it can stack with those pill bonuses.
that being said, if budget is an issue (it probably is, they are nobles but not too rich). then it isn't really worth their while to pay more than the 25 for it.
So, I wouldn't price it at 70 a month. The idea is to give a deal that both sides can live with. and of course there is the ever present temptation to stop paying and use it in secret once the secret is out and you know where it is.
As for the remaining slots, they actually have a shot.
That said, if they could genuinely get a serious amount of money from the nobs then it would be worthwhile logically (assuming they think about it logically and not emotionally). Since Han's group is not the only competition they have for those last 2 slots, and its better to get the extra resources
But its a big if
that being said, if budget is an issue (it probably is, they are nobles but not too rich). then it isn't really worth their while to pay more than the 25 for it.
So, I wouldn't price it at 70 a month. The idea is to give a deal that both sides can live with. and of course there is the ever present temptation to stop paying and use it in secret once the secret is out and you know where it is.
They don't need to catch up with us. You have listed those A listers already.
As for the remaining slots, they actually have a shot.
That said, if they could genuinely get a serious amount of money from the nobs then it would be worthwhile logically (assuming they think about it logically and not emotionally). Since Han's group is not the only competition they have for those last 2 slots, and its better to get the extra resources
But its a big if
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- Location
- United States of America
While it pains me, the subclause opening the vote for the possibility of sharing the vent has been removed from the plan "As swift as a raging river."
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TheLastOne
Person of impeccable tastes (for destruction)
Sorry, but I'll be withdrawing from you plan. Give me a few minutes and I'll have one up I can support.
Read the discussion after the update. We where told 5 meridians was the most we could get for the Red to Yellow breakthrough.
- Location
- United States of America
@TheLastOne I understand.
This reads like giving them a discount to the detriment of Li Suyin and Li Sung on the basis that they're our friends and that making them stronger will profit us. You're not wrong, but that's taking resources out of the pockets of those who have an equal claim on the Vent's discovery to enrich ourselves in non-tangible wealth. I'm not comfortable with that. We are equal partners in stewardship of the Argent Vent, or we are no partners at all.
The argument for securing safety during cultivation at the vent that applied with Bai Meizhen doesn't apply here because of her presence. That was a mutual benefit to the three of us that we happened to gain outsized advantage by, but there wasn't really any compromise there that we could have made. Meizhen can probably use the exposure to others anyway.
- Location
- USA
The way QM phrased his later comments on it, it sounds like 5 meridian was the only bonus available
Maybe put a subclause in the vent training? Just discuss things with Suyin and Su Ling without bringing it to Jian yet.
Huh. I actually think the 4 that will almost certainly make it are Cai Renxiang, Sun Liling, Bai Meizhen, and Ji Rong. I'm not sure Kang Zihao or Huang Da make it actually. Huang Da is already being left behind by Ji Rong (he's only recently made yellow, he hasn't made silver, he was '3rd' in the group for the passes and only barely), and the fact that Zihao felt it necessary to stage a 2v8 against a wounded peer before jumping in himself seems to indicate that he's weaker than the other 3 girls.
Also, that Xuan guy seems ... troublesome.
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