Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)

This one action is not guaranteed to fix the problem, and the problem is not as severe as it is being made out to be
I agree that this one action will not fix the problem, but it is a problem and we should start working on fixing it. It might not be as severe as you say, but I would rather start working on it now rather than let it remain idle.

Just my personal preference.
 
Rember folks, Han Jian was the very first person in our class that we met during this whole adventure. It would be a shame to not spend time building up his social link with him every now and again, especially since he has done so much for us.

Consider this a shameless plugin for Plan "Swift as a Coursing River"!

Speaking of the Han Jian subvote action, I'd strongly consider moving the free action back to Han Jian in private. There's no issue of freezing people out since the offer, assuming Suyin and Su Lin agreed, would be for the entire group. While having it out in public would have Xiulan (hopefully) helping out, there would also be Yu and his accusations. It would also be springing out a surprise on Han Jian before he can vet it and adjust it / present it the best way to a group that he understands better than us.

It's the reason why negotiations are held in secret before the final draft is handed out to legislatures. For us, it would mean negotiating with 1 person and one who has an OK to good relationship with us, and Han Jian's social abilities are still higher than ours and, as mentioned, he knows everyone in the group better than us. Presenting it as a fait accompli allows him to save face and reinforce his leadership of the group.

If he has a suboptimal reaction to it at first, it would also allow him to do so in private where it wouldn't impact the relations of the rest of the group either.
 
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Sure, and I am seriously considering switching to that plan so we can work on strengthening that friendship.
But, we shouldn't resort to gross exaggerations to push for it.
This one action is not guaranteed to fix the problem, and the problem is not as severe as it is being made out to be
It might not fix the problem directly, but ignoring it will probably not make it go away either.

Thing is, we had social link warning signs like this before. Like with Li Suyin, it might not be a sever as "leaving the sect if we do not take this action" but it will have consequences on our oldest SL.
 
It's the reason why negotiations are held in secret before the final draft is handed out to legislatures. For us, it would mean negotiating with 1 person and one who has an OK to good relationship with us, and Han Jian's social abilities are still higher than us and, as mentioned, he knows everyone in the group better than us. Presenting it as a fait accompli allows him to save face and reinforce his leadership of the group.

That's a good point. Might also help repair our relationship with him some more, if we're lucky.
 
I really think the actions towards a shared vent won't work, so for me it's a deal breaker and I'll never vote for River as long as it has that.
 
I really think the actions towards a shared vent won't work, so for me it's a deal breaker and I'll never vote for River as long as it has that.
*Shrug* You are most likely correct, I am voting for River even with it tough for the Han Jian action.

Also I believe that the thread needs another wake up call on the limits of Ling Qi's social ability before they can understand why it is a bad idea. It will hurt but hopefully we can avoid doing it again for 7-8 updates afterwards.
 
I agree that this one action will not fix the problem, but it is a problem and we should start working on fixing it. It might not be as severe as you say, but I would rather start working on it now rather than let it remain idle.

Just my personal preference.
Fair enough, I fully agree with this. actually, let me put my money where my mouth is

[X] Plan As Swift as a Coursing River
[X] Dexterity
 
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It's the reason why negotiations are held in secret before the final draft is handed out to legislatures. For us, it would mean negotiating with 1 person and one who has an OK to good relationship with us, and Han Jian's social abilities are still higher than us and, as mentioned, he knows everyone in the group better than us. Presenting it as a fait accompli allows him to save face and reinforce his leadership of the group.

You make some good points about moving it back to the personal action. I'm still unsure if that is the move I should make though for a couple of reasons. I don't want the action we are taking with Han Jian personally, in order to improve our relation to him, to be sullied by talking about business. I like asking the group because we are offering it to the group and not just one person. It might surprise Han Jian, but I don't see how it would interfere with his leadership abilities or his leadership role or make it harder for him to save face.

Since we are offering it to the group and not just to Han Jian, I feel more comfortable presenting it to the group for them to decide. I can understand the concerns about the other members of the group splintering if they don't want to do it, but I feel that the group is too tightly knitted to do that.

Can I even vote otherwise? That's not a question
I was wondering where your vote was! :)

I really think the actions towards a shared vent won't work, so for me it's a deal breaker and I'll never vote for River as long as it has that.
You are correct in that it might not work, but I feel that it has so-so odds of working out. I feel that Ling Qi would see the difficulties that her friends are having with their cultivation, and would want for the vent thing to work out. It might not, and we might have to do damage control afterward to clean up the mess of a catastrophic failure, but I would be remiss not to try. If we succeed, then our noble friends will have a huge boost in the competition and we might be able to get some of them into the top 8 finals because of this.
 
*Shrug* You are most likely correct, I am voting for River even with it tough for the Han Jian action.

Also I believe that the thread needs another wake up call on the limits of Ling Qi's social ability before they can understand why it is a bad idea. It will hurt but hopefully we can avoid doing it again for 7-8 updates afterwards.


You can vote for my plan and then switch back if river is losing!
 
Honestly? How does this action fix jealousy? That's never gonna go away. Especially as we pull further ahead. We can patch it up but it'll just fall apart again. Unless he stops feeling jealous period the friendship is doomed. People have speculated that Gu only has us as a friend. Well if thats true and we're relatively close and she was jealous about our progress then what about Han? We're much less close to him. Also if we spend so much time with him our friendship with Gu will fall apart given her territorial tendencies. It's pretty much a no-win scenario unless we're willing to dedicate time to just those two. Then our 'wild' group will deteriorate. I'm probably exaggerating a bit here but it's certainly possible unless things somehow get miraculously better with Han.
 
I just hope we address Gu's potential jealosy over our sucess before we up our "attention" pn her crush.

Also, i hope if we let han and co to the vent, a rule in force is fan yu to be as quiet as the monk dude.
 
Honestly? How does this action fix jealousy? That's never gonna go away. Especially as we pull further ahead. We can patch it up but it'll just fall apart again. Unless he stops feeling jealous period the friendship is doomed. People have speculated that Gu only has us as a friend. Well if thats true and we're relatively close and she was jealous about our progress then what about Han? We're much less close to him. Also if we spend so much time with him our friendship with Gu will fall apart given her territorial tendencies. It's pretty much a no-win scenario unless we're willing to dedicate time to just those two. Then our 'wild' group will deteriorate. I'm probably exaggerating a bit here but it's certainly possible unless things somehow get miraculously better with Han.
I think it's mostly about making sure the break up isn't violent. It really does seem Han Jian will keep feeling inferior to us, simply because he is smart enough to realise we simply are much more talented than him. As long as it goes OK he should be smart enough to want to have a good relationship with us and will keep being an ally, and that's probably for the best.
 
Honestly? How does this action fix jealousy? That's never gonna go away.
In my view, it is much harder to be jealous of someone's good fortune and progress when they are asking you for help in something. It brings a grounding aspect to the equation. He might be jealous of our fast progression and talent, but by asking him about spirit bindings and other information that is given out to people of his rank, it would hopefully cool down the jealousy and remind him that while we are good at somethings, we are clueless about the wider cultivator world.
 
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Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by Rhydarson on May 26, 2017 at 3:50 PM, finished with 9578 posts and 38 votes.

  • [X][stat] Dexterity
    [X] Plan As Swift as a Coursing River
    -[X] Resources used: Argent Elixir, Argent Accumulation pill, 3 red spirit stones, Bear Marrow Elixir, Gushing Spring pill
    -[X] Help Suyin train and cultivate at the vent
    --[X] Argent Soul
    -[X] Try to spend some time with Han Jian, couch it as wanting to ask him about spirit binding
    -[X] Discuss with Meizhen what you can help her with
    -[X] Train with Han Jian and his group
    --[X] Physical
    ---[X] Ask Su Ling and Li Suyin prior, and, if they agree to it, discuss trading access to a high-quality Spirit Stone and Argent Soul vent in exchange for resources/talismans/training and being cordial to those who found it.
    -[X] Look into sending some money to mother
    -[X] Cultivate on your own
    --[X] FVM
    [X] Plan As Swift as a Coursing River
    [X] Plan Backlog, Cultivation, & Helping
    -[X] Resources: 3 Red Stones, Bear Marrow Elixir (Cost 4), Argent Accumulation (Cost 2), Argent Elixir (Cost 10)
    -[X] Try to puzzle out the tokens left from the test
    -[X] Look into sending some money to mother
    -[X] Help Suyin train and cultivate at the vent
    --[X] Argent Soul
    -[X] Train with Han Jian and his group
    --[X] FVM
    -[X] Cultivate on your own
    --[X] Physical
    -[X] Discuss with Meizhen what you can help her with
    [X] Plan Backlog, Cultivation, & Helping
    [X] Plan Daughter of the Moon.
    -[X]Argent Elixir, 3 Red Stone, Bear Marrow Elixir, Gushing Spring Pill, Argent Accumulation Pill
    -[X] Try to spend some time with Han Jian, couch it as wanting to ask him about spirit binding
    -[X] You are still worried about Suyin, perhaps the two of you could study formations together? It might get her mind off things
    -[X] Train with Han Jian and his group
    --[X] FVM
    -[X] Help Suyin train and cultivate at the vent
    --[X] Argent Soul
    -[X] Cultivate on your own
    --[X] Physical
    -[X] Visit the Archive
    --[X] Search for a technique
    ---[X] any combination of Head/Heart/Spine arts that are wind, darkness or water aligned.
    [X] Plan Daughter of the Moon.
    [X][Stat] Stamina
    [X]Plan Backlog and heading off issues
    -[X] Resources: 3 Red Stones, Argent Accumulation (Cost 2), Argent Elixir (Cost 10), Gushing Spring Pill (Cost 2)
    -[X] Try to puzzle out the tokens left from the test
    -[X] Look into sending some money to mother
    -[X] Help Suyin train and cultivate at the vent
    --[X] Argent Soul
    -[X] Try to spend some time with Han Jian, couch it as wanting to ask him about spirit binding
    -[X] Cultivate on your own
    --[X] FVM
    -[X] Discuss with Meizhen what you can help her with
    [X]Plan Backlog and heading off issues
    [X] Plan Steady Cultivation and taking care off tired friends
    -[X] Resources: 3 Red Stones, Bear Marrow Elixir (Cost 4), Argent Accumulation (Cost 2), Argent Elixir (Cost 10)
    -[X] Go out with Xiulan in your downtime, perhaps she can help you do something with your hair
    --[X] Ask about inviting Bai Meizhen
    -[X] You are still worried about Suyin, perhaps the two of you could study formations together? It might get her mind off things
    -[X] Help Suyin train and cultivate at the vent
    --[X] Argent Soul
    -[X] Train with Han Jian and his group
    --[X] Physical
    -[X] Cultivate on your own
    --[X] Spiritual
    -[X] Try to spend some time with Han Jian, couch it as wanting to ask him about spirit binding
    [X] Plan Knock things off the to-do list, and do a big cultivation push next week
    -[X] Resources - 3 Red Spirit Stones
    -[X] You are still worried about Suyin, perhaps the two of you could study formations together? It might get her mind off things
    -[X] Try to puzzle out the tokens left from the test
    --[X] Discuss with others who got tokens
    -[X] Visit the Archive
    --[X] Study formations
    -[X] Try to spend some time with Han Jian, couch it as wanting to ask him about spirit binding
    --[X] Ask Su Ling and Li Suyin prior, and if they agree discuss trading access to a high quality Spirit Stone and Argent Soul vent in exchange for resources/talismans/training and being cordial to those who found it.
    -[X] Help Suyin train and cultivate at the vent (no social dialogue, training action)
    --[X] Train Sable's Crescent Step
    -[X] Look into sending some money to mother
    --[X] Ask Su Ling and Li Suyin prior, and if they agree discuss trading access to a high quality Spirit Stone and Argent Soul vent in exchange for resources/talismans/training and being cordial to those who found it.
    [X] Plan Clearing a Coursing River
    -[X] Resources used: Argent Accumulation pill, 3 red spirit stones, Gushing Spring pill
    -[X] Help Suyin train and cultivate at the vent
    --[X] Argent Soul
    ---[X] Talk to Li Suyin and Su Ling about giving access to the Argent vent to Han Jian and Co, in exchange for spirit stones and training.
    -[X] Try to spend some time with Han Jian, couch it as wanting to ask him about spirit binding
    -[X] Discuss with Meizhen what you can help her with
    -[X] Try to puzzle out the tokens left from the test
    -[X] Look into sending some money to mother
    -[X] Cultivate on your own
    --[X] FVM
    [X] Plan Backlog, Cultivation, and Helping
 
It doesn't really matter whether our relationship with Han Jian is salvageable or not, we still need to take an action with him. Why? Because we won't actually know what the problem is and where we stand with him until we take an action with him. Even if it turns out to be unsalvageable, we still need to take an action with him to figure that out.
 
In my view, it is much harder to be jealous of someone's good fortune and progress when they are asking you for help in something. It brings a grounding aspect to the equation. He might be jealous of our fast progression and talent, but by asking him about spirit bindings and other information that is given out to people of his rank, it would hopefully cool down the jealousy and remind him that while we are good at somethings, we are clueless about the wider cultivator world.
Well I suppose that viewpoint is certainly valid. Depends on the person I guess. For me at least I'd feel even more bitter. "Just one more aspect I'd be surpassed in shortly" or something to that effect.
 
[X][stat] Dexterity
[X] Plan Backlog, Cultivation, & Helping

I can appreciate the intent of Coursing River- but I've always considered the idea of bringing our two circles of friends close together, especially this quickly a huge mistake. You want an impoverished cultivator and a heavily stigmatized bastard to get along with minimal friction with a gang of tight-knit fairly insular nobles- even if they're pretty chill as far as nobles go.

I hate to break it to people, but sometimes your friends don't get along with each other, and we've seen nothing to indicate that as collective groups they can really get along. For all Li Suyin's new determination, all it takes is Fan Yu making one asinine comment about her losing her eye being a good thing and she's either depressed or trying to rupture his veins. Su Ling is also going to be interested in Han Jian at a time when Gu Xiuling is more insecure than ever.

It doesn't matter if Han Jian's a decent guy, it doesn't matter if objectively such an alliance makes sense- there's an immense cultural and class gap that neither side has shown any interest in actively overcoming. Both groups are wary of the others; Li Suyin and Su Ling see rich and powerful nobility seeking any advantage when they already have so many (and are able to potentially better exploit their sole advantage) and they aren't even necessarily wrong. Han's gang sees a weak-willed cultivator (that they'll probably learn is from a disgraced family) and a kitsune rape-baby, both are stigmatized in a society where 'Strength is the first virtue' and strengthening such questionable characters when they likely know entrance into the Inner Sect boils down to a tournament isn't appealing.

It just feels overly optimistic. Best case, we get the business transaction going down and have to try and serve as an arbitrator keeping everyone honest. Worst case Han Jian and Co. will make the decision they value the Argent spring more than our friendship and force us into a confrontation over this. It's actually a pretty profitable course of action for them- they have several Yellow-tier cultivators and extensive team training, if Bai Meizhen wasn't a factor it would be trivial for them, as it stands they still might be able to pull it off if they played smart. The fact remains, any spirit stones and talismans they're giving our two friends are items they're not using to secure sect points and their own position- there can only be 8 Inner Peak disciples and as a tight knit group they're probably counting on trying to move move up mostly as a group. That doesn't leave much room for Su Ling and Li Suying at the winners' table and I doubt the two will be willing to swear off trying to gain entrance to the Inner Sect considering it might be the key for Li Suying to get strong enough to heal her eye and Su Ling is surprisingly proud in her own way.

TLDR: The Argent vent situation is really complicated, it exploded in our face when we tentatively tried before and it's not liable to go over that much better this time around. If this means we're at risk of breaking ties with Han Jian's group- that's sad but thems the breaks, at least we can still be Best Snek's second and have our two plucky minions underlings friends on our side. I know I've effectively had to choose between two circles of friends at times.
 
[X][stat] Dexterity
[X] Plan Social
-[X] Argent Elixir, 3 Red Stone, Bear Marrow Elixir, Argent Accumulation Pill
-[X] Try to spend some time with Han Jian, couch it as wanting to ask him about spirit binding
-[X] You are still worried about Suyin, perhaps the two of you could study formations together? It might get her mind off things
-[x] Discuss with Meizhen what you can help her with
-[x] Try to puzzle out the tokens left from the test
-[X] Help Suyin train and cultivate at the vent
--[X] Argent Soul
-[x] Cultivate on your own
--[x] Physical

Alright, I feel that we have had social kinda go out of control on us. So as much as it pains me to, I would like to get max social actions this turn.

Remember that training with a friend doesn't advance their social link!
Bai because we promised her that when we breakthrough, and already skipped on it last week to get silver.

Relax with Li Suyin because she is in a bad place right now and she loves studying such theoretical stuff. Also, we might as well get some formations stuff done.

Han Jian because things need work there, also we need to get our first pokemon ASAP for the bonuses to cultivation so knowing how this work is important.
Finally look at the tokens after.

Cultivate AS at vent because skipping out on vent is just too bad for us. So even though its possible to stick a 5th social action here, I am still going to go for vent.

Cultivate alone because mandatory as per QM.

Also, this plan doesn't push for further attempt of unifying the two groups we are in. Because it isn't really working out. Maybe if we develop our social skills further
 
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You make some good points about moving it back to the personal action. I'm still unsure if that is the move I should make though for a couple of reasons. I don't want the action we are taking with Han Jian personally, in order to improve our relation to him, to be sullied by talking about business.
This is a very modern, conflicts-of-interest-exist sort of stance. In a premodern society giving social and business advantages to other people is how you prove friendships; favoritism and nepotism are used to reinforce and validate emotional/social bonds. A friendship with nothing solid behind it is just words and wind, but a friendship where both sides are actively making the other side gain from it is solid and lasting.

Basically, by approaching Han Jian individually we are not offering the vent to the group; we are gifting Han Jian a massively profitable negotiation opportunity, thereby proving our friendship in a much more tangible way than simply talking. It's as much a boost for the social action as the presents for Li Suyin and Su Ling were, if not significantly more so.

Edit: There are certainly valid reasons to talk to the whole group about it instead of just him; the point I'm making here is solely that "mixing business into our friendship conversation is bad" isn't a particularly accurate or reasonable stance in our current cultural context.
 
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It just feels overly optimistic. Best case, we get the business transaction going down and have to try and serve as an arbitrator keeping everyone honest.
There are several good points made and the concerns are valid. I don't see the two groups merging, Fan Yu and Gu Xiulan are going to be destabilizing influences to any other people joining their tight-knit group. However, with Han Jian as the leader, I don't see them trying to force us or other people from the Argent vent merely because they want it to themselves and don't want to pay for it. In all honesty, them giving talismans is probably not going to happen, but training might be on the table. As for the best case scenario, that would be they all become friends and work together.

That will never happen.

What I hope and expect to happen is that a calendar is arranged where Su Ling and Li Suyin won't use the vent and instead do other things that need to be done and Han Jian and Co can cultivate at the vent during those times. While Li Suyin may want to cultivate at the vent all the time, it is important for her not to forget her roots as a scholarly person and try to get accesses to the library in order to learn.
 
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