Forge of Destiny(Xianxia Quest)
- Thread starter yrsillar
- Start date
- Original Fantasy
TheLastOne
Person of impeccable tastes (for destruction)
Inserted tally
- Location
- USA
[x] Plan Ambition
[X] Resources used
-[X] Two Red Spirit Stones, Argent Accumulation pill, Qi Foundation Pill
[X] Look into how Su Ling and Li Suyin are doing and cultivate at the vent
-[X] Argent Soul
-[X] Give Su Ling the Lotus Root Pin and Li Suyin the Skirmisher's Anklets.
-[x] Warn them about their origin and to wear them discreetly to avoid trouble
[X] Cultivate on your own
-[x] At the vent, if you encounter Huang Da try to agree to coexist and cultivate peacefully. if he refuses then just escape.
-[x] 1x Spiritual
-[X] 3x Argent Soul
--[x] If through insane luck we manage to max AS with only 2 actions, then start yellow breakthrough
After we break through to silver/yellow we lose the option to enjoy foundation pill. And this pill was a reward for a reason, it is awesome!
I know the teacher warned us to not spend all our time cultivating in seclusion, and it is a valid warning. But there is a difference between spending all your time cultivating in seclusion, and squandering opportunities for long term growth because we are completely unwilling to enter seclusion training even for mere 2 weeks where we have a missable opportunity to make permanent gains.
Things seem stable enough that we can afford those 2 weeks of seclusion, and I really want to get AS5 ASAP as it is by far our strongest art and at the moment at 19/100 progress. (yes I know it won't benefit us until yellow, but we get yellow next turn. if we get yellow this turn we are stuck with underperforming AS and no more Qi foundation pill bonus to raise it!)
Here is my expectation from an AS training in the vent with suyin
Talent 6, Argent Soul 6, Suyin 2, Red Spirit Stone 5, Vent 5, Qi Foundation pill 9, Argent accumulation pill 3. Total dice 36
Roll under or equal 6, meaning avg +21.6 points from the above cultivation
Training it on our own should lose the Suyin bonus so 34 dice and 20.4 average result.
so, suyin + 3 self training should on average max it out if we are taking those awesome pills. Thus, plan ambition is born to maximize our drug bonuses before they become unavailable.
The above makes max use of the pills for long term growth. Next turn we do double breakthrough and then we can socialize again.
In the above plan we get 9*5=45 extra dice from foundation pill alone that won't repeat itself. And 12 dice from a single AS pill
If there are cases which I missed where I can change "cultivate on your own" to "cultivate spirit/AS with friends" that I missed please note it and I will add it because there is no reason to not combine it when possible.
[X] Resources used
-[X] Two Red Spirit Stones, Argent Accumulation pill, Qi Foundation Pill
[X] Look into how Su Ling and Li Suyin are doing and cultivate at the vent
-[X] Argent Soul
-[X] Give Su Ling the Lotus Root Pin and Li Suyin the Skirmisher's Anklets.
-[x] Warn them about their origin and to wear them discreetly to avoid trouble
[X] Cultivate on your own
-[x] At the vent, if you encounter Huang Da try to agree to coexist and cultivate peacefully. if he refuses then just escape.
-[x] 1x Spiritual
-[X] 3x Argent Soul
--[x] If through insane luck we manage to max AS with only 2 actions, then start yellow breakthrough
After we break through to silver/yellow we lose the option to enjoy foundation pill. And this pill was a reward for a reason, it is awesome!
I know the teacher warned us to not spend all our time cultivating in seclusion, and it is a valid warning. But there is a difference between spending all your time cultivating in seclusion, and squandering opportunities for long term growth because we are completely unwilling to enter seclusion training even for mere 2 weeks where we have a missable opportunity to make permanent gains.
Things seem stable enough that we can afford those 2 weeks of seclusion, and I really want to get AS5 ASAP as it is by far our strongest art and at the moment at 19/100 progress. (yes I know it won't benefit us until yellow, but we get yellow next turn. if we get yellow this turn we are stuck with underperforming AS and no more Qi foundation pill bonus to raise it!)
Here is my expectation from an AS training in the vent with suyin
Talent 6, Argent Soul 6, Suyin 2, Red Spirit Stone 5, Vent 5, Qi Foundation pill 9, Argent accumulation pill 3. Total dice 36
Roll under or equal 6, meaning avg +21.6 points from the above cultivation
Training it on our own should lose the Suyin bonus so 34 dice and 20.4 average result.
so, suyin + 3 self training should on average max it out if we are taking those awesome pills. Thus, plan ambition is born to maximize our drug bonuses before they become unavailable.
The above makes max use of the pills for long term growth. Next turn we do double breakthrough and then we can socialize again.
In the above plan we get 9*5=45 extra dice from foundation pill alone that won't repeat itself. And 12 dice from a single AS pill
If there are cases which I missed where I can change "cultivate on your own" to "cultivate spirit/AS with friends" that I missed please note it and I will add it because there is no reason to not combine it when possible.
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- Location
- United States of America
It's a tight race, I know. Hopefully, more people see the value of using the Qi foundation pill now rather than later! Plan [] Raging Fire also gets some political info in, so it has that angle covered as well!
TheLastOne
Person of impeccable tastes (for destruction)
Sitting has 17, Double has 14, and Fire has Fourteen. Defectors are more likely from Fire then Sitting, because Fire is more cultivation aggressive, Sitting is the least aggressive plan. People will bleed from it towards both Double and Sitting I expect. So I think we have decent odds, but eight hours can change a lot.
- Location
- USA
It occurs to me that not warning the girls about the origin of the "gifts" we give them (namely, we beat up a noble and stole them) would backfire spectacularly.
So, we should really include a line informing/warning them about the origin and telling them to wear them discreetly. (like hiding them under clothes/hair)
So, we should really include a line informing/warning them about the origin and telling them to wear them discreetly. (like hiding them under clothes/hair)
- Location
- scrabbling
[X] Plan Double Break
I see two main arguments against double breakthough: first, the argument that it's not super likely to succeed, and second, the argument that it's further down the priority list than social actions. I don't find either very convincing.
First, the 'statistical' argument of 'oh only 17% chance of success' is basically nonsense. It's based on some misbegotten assumption that 'success' is defined as a double breakthrough, but the plan only really wants 'at least one' breakthrough. To be realistic about it, this is about a 66% chance of 'success'. Double Break's not depending on an actual double breakthrough despite the name. Also, any breakthrough action anytime will have the same chance of success. To do one breakthrough attempt one week and one breakthrough attempt the next is identical to doing two at once. (Ignoring the possibility of a 'recent conflict' bonus, but that's Magical Christmasland thinking, so it's not a real argument anyway even if it's in my favor.)
There's also a subargument 'but what if we fail and lose progress' which is also, to put it lightly, silly. It will apply no matter when Ling Qi attempts breakthrough and it's not something affected by the timing of her attempts. BESIDES the fact that cultivation actions benefit most from consolidation and grouped-up efforts, doing everything possible in a single week in order to benefit from pills and bonuses and whatnot. To do one breakthrough this week and another next, with the intention of alternating attempts with actions to reach/rereach peak is what's actually 'inefficient' in cultivation conceptual terms.
This is, of course, ignoring social, which brings me to the second primary argument against Double Break: the argument of prioritisation.
So second: no, I don't think that social is a priority. There are no ticking timebombs or must-takes that significantly improve Ling Qi's ability to act or improve her number of choices. The 'advice' actions offered are slow on return and honestly are not all that actionable—I'll tell you what Han Jian will say. He'll give advice to stay away from Liling vs. Meizhen, a short biography of the concerning new threat Kang Zihao, the interests of the Kang family if Ling Qi doesn't figure them out on her own, and Cai Renxiang's interest in stopping silliness/blatant banditry. Meizhen will say 'get to Silver or Yellow, that's a sure way to protect yourself from scrubs and will let you compete with the stronger ones'. Or maybe I'm really wrong and someone will say 'don't breakthrough too early or it'll get you in the spotlight', except that's not going to happen because this is Xianxia and it's all about moving up as fast as possible. But no matter what they say, all that they will give is information (and maybe a roll or short-term bonus on something as a gimme to keep Ling Qi moving).
Information about others is not useful to Ling Qi because Ling Qi's goals for the next month are entirely self-interested: breakthrough. Meizhen said 'if you wanna help me become competitive in my arena'. Han Jian and Gu Xiulan and Han Fang (and maybe Fan Yu, who knows), all of them are moving up to Yellow and Silver, and Kang Zihao and Cai Renxiang and Gan Guangli are all Yellow and Silver already. These are the names that Ling Qi knows because they're the characters that matter in her quest to the top. If her life was a sports anime these would be the broad backs that Ling Qi strives to compete with. If there is any action that will improve Ling Qi's ability to compete or continue to progress as she has, it is either going to the Archive and mastering some Arts or breaking through, and no leading plan has included the Archives. So we can't chew gum, I guess.
Worry about optics all you like—Ling Qi's already won that in the Thunderdome. Dislike to Wary, and having Cai Renxiang, the girl borrowing the image of Satsuki Kiryuin, declare your most optics focused opponent a bandit, and coming out of beating someone who 'should' beat you easily while having a noble declare you her friend, and doing it while fabulous in new clothes—coming from an urchin, that's outright shock and awe. Proponents of social say, 'Thunderdome gave us breathing room and now we aren't under threat, so we can coast a bit and chat'. No. We've got breathing room socially so we have to push in the other arenas Ling Qi is involved in. Shock and Awe is an approach about momentum. Under the social plans, more than 50% of the time Ling Qi staggers in her cultivation. Yes, social is a power all its own, but it's only obvious to people who already know about it, and the only people who know everything about Ling Qi's social circles are the readers and Ling Qi. And maybe Huang Da.
To sum up: to put breakthrough off for 'fear of failing' is absurd because it is as if you are running and come across a gap, and decide to not jump over the gap. The gap is not getting any smaller any time soon and no one is going to build a suspension bridge for you to walk across it easily. To put breakthrough off for 'fear of someone walking up behind you and pushing you into the gap' is possibly even more absurd. You could have just jumped already. You don't stop to tiptoe to the edge for a long jump. You run.
(on another note: I really love how a throwaway word used by Alectai became the thread standard for the event of the breaking of the truce, even to the point that it's the threadmark title for the updates)
I see two main arguments against double breakthough: first, the argument that it's not super likely to succeed, and second, the argument that it's further down the priority list than social actions. I don't find either very convincing.
First, the 'statistical' argument of 'oh only 17% chance of success' is basically nonsense. It's based on some misbegotten assumption that 'success' is defined as a double breakthrough, but the plan only really wants 'at least one' breakthrough. To be realistic about it, this is about a 66% chance of 'success'. Double Break's not depending on an actual double breakthrough despite the name. Also, any breakthrough action anytime will have the same chance of success. To do one breakthrough attempt one week and one breakthrough attempt the next is identical to doing two at once. (Ignoring the possibility of a 'recent conflict' bonus, but that's Magical Christmasland thinking, so it's not a real argument anyway even if it's in my favor.)
There's also a subargument 'but what if we fail and lose progress' which is also, to put it lightly, silly. It will apply no matter when Ling Qi attempts breakthrough and it's not something affected by the timing of her attempts. BESIDES the fact that cultivation actions benefit most from consolidation and grouped-up efforts, doing everything possible in a single week in order to benefit from pills and bonuses and whatnot. To do one breakthrough this week and another next, with the intention of alternating attempts with actions to reach/rereach peak is what's actually 'inefficient' in cultivation conceptual terms.
This is, of course, ignoring social, which brings me to the second primary argument against Double Break: the argument of prioritisation.
So second: no, I don't think that social is a priority. There are no ticking timebombs or must-takes that significantly improve Ling Qi's ability to act or improve her number of choices. The 'advice' actions offered are slow on return and honestly are not all that actionable—I'll tell you what Han Jian will say. He'll give advice to stay away from Liling vs. Meizhen, a short biography of the concerning new threat Kang Zihao, the interests of the Kang family if Ling Qi doesn't figure them out on her own, and Cai Renxiang's interest in stopping silliness/blatant banditry. Meizhen will say 'get to Silver or Yellow, that's a sure way to protect yourself from scrubs and will let you compete with the stronger ones'. Or maybe I'm really wrong and someone will say 'don't breakthrough too early or it'll get you in the spotlight', except that's not going to happen because this is Xianxia and it's all about moving up as fast as possible. But no matter what they say, all that they will give is information (and maybe a roll or short-term bonus on something as a gimme to keep Ling Qi moving).
Information about others is not useful to Ling Qi because Ling Qi's goals for the next month are entirely self-interested: breakthrough. Meizhen said 'if you wanna help me become competitive in my arena'. Han Jian and Gu Xiulan and Han Fang (and maybe Fan Yu, who knows), all of them are moving up to Yellow and Silver, and Kang Zihao and Cai Renxiang and Gan Guangli are all Yellow and Silver already. These are the names that Ling Qi knows because they're the characters that matter in her quest to the top. If her life was a sports anime these would be the broad backs that Ling Qi strives to compete with. If there is any action that will improve Ling Qi's ability to compete or continue to progress as she has, it is either going to the Archive and mastering some Arts or breaking through, and no leading plan has included the Archives. So we can't chew gum, I guess.
Worry about optics all you like—Ling Qi's already won that in the Thunderdome. Dislike to Wary, and having Cai Renxiang, the girl borrowing the image of Satsuki Kiryuin, declare your most optics focused opponent a bandit, and coming out of beating someone who 'should' beat you easily while having a noble declare you her friend, and doing it while fabulous in new clothes—coming from an urchin, that's outright shock and awe. Proponents of social say, 'Thunderdome gave us breathing room and now we aren't under threat, so we can coast a bit and chat'. No. We've got breathing room socially so we have to push in the other arenas Ling Qi is involved in. Shock and Awe is an approach about momentum. Under the social plans, more than 50% of the time Ling Qi staggers in her cultivation. Yes, social is a power all its own, but it's only obvious to people who already know about it, and the only people who know everything about Ling Qi's social circles are the readers and Ling Qi. And maybe Huang Da.
To sum up: to put breakthrough off for 'fear of failing' is absurd because it is as if you are running and come across a gap, and decide to not jump over the gap. The gap is not getting any smaller any time soon and no one is going to build a suspension bridge for you to walk across it easily. To put breakthrough off for 'fear of someone walking up behind you and pushing you into the gap' is possibly even more absurd. You could have just jumped already. You don't stop to tiptoe to the edge for a long jump. You run.
(on another note: I really love how a throwaway word used by Alectai became the thread standard for the event of the breaking of the truce, even to the point that it's the threadmark title for the updates)
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Time to consolidate, I guess.
[X] Plan Housesitting Pretty
... Who's Du?
[X] Plan Housesitting Pretty
... Who's Du?
- Location
- USA
Stalker
- Location
- Who Knows
Spelling error. Huang Da not Huang Du
- Location
- USA
I agree, but I think there is a 3rd argument against double break and that is the loss of qi foundation. we should do plan ambition this week to max out AS5 with the benefit of qi foundation pill (giving us a whopping 45 extra dice this turn from one pill which will be missable! and the AS pill gives another 12 extra dice)
And then do double break next week.
also, you missed an argument. breakthroughs in cultivation improve our action economy, meaning we can perform more social actions in later turns, AND be better at those social actions to boot! (free successes on persuade rolls / gather info rolls)
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- Location
- United States
[X] Plan Breakthroughs Priorities
[X] Two Red Stones
-[X] Look into how Su Ling and Li Suyin are doing and cultivate at the vent
--[X] Give Su Ling the Lotus Root Pin and Li Suyin the Skirmisher's Anklets. They aren't gifts, they're just paying them for all the help they've given us - we wouldn't have claimed the arive pass without their support. Let them know of their origins and to recommend discretion.
--[X] Offer Su Ling the Qi Foundation pills in trade - she hunts beast cores for Li Suyin. For the next two weeks she can hunt them for us too.
--[X] Spiritual
-[X] Go House hunting with Bai Meizhen
-[X] Talk to Han Jian see if he has any advice about the current 'political' situation
-[X] Breakthrough to Yellow if at peak red, silver otherwise
--[X] Finish Breakthrough if first roll succeeded. If first roll was for Silver, spend some time with Gu Xiulan try to work out what has her so bothered by Li Suyin. If first roll was Yellow then attempt Silver.
Well I'll just put up this slightly edited version of Housesitting up. No reason to sit at Silver if we fail the first Yellow attempt. We'll either succeed in both yellow checks or we'll make a try at both Silver & Yellow and pass or fail that. Putting it off isn't as good a decision imo.
[X] Two Red Stones
-[X] Look into how Su Ling and Li Suyin are doing and cultivate at the vent
--[X] Give Su Ling the Lotus Root Pin and Li Suyin the Skirmisher's Anklets. They aren't gifts, they're just paying them for all the help they've given us - we wouldn't have claimed the arive pass without their support. Let them know of their origins and to recommend discretion.
--[X] Offer Su Ling the Qi Foundation pills in trade - she hunts beast cores for Li Suyin. For the next two weeks she can hunt them for us too.
--[X] Spiritual
-[X] Go House hunting with Bai Meizhen
-[X] Talk to Han Jian see if he has any advice about the current 'political' situation
-[X] Breakthrough to Yellow if at peak red, silver otherwise
--[X] Finish Breakthrough if first roll succeeded. If first roll was for Silver, spend some time with Gu Xiulan try to work out what has her so bothered by Li Suyin. If first roll was Yellow then attempt Silver.
Well I'll just put up this slightly edited version of Housesitting up. No reason to sit at Silver if we fail the first Yellow attempt. We'll either succeed in both yellow checks or we'll make a try at both Silver & Yellow and pass or fail that. Putting it off isn't as good a decision imo.
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- Location
- USA
You should include informing them of the source of the talismans and a warning to hide them under their clothes to avoid trouble.
thanks, fixed
- Location
- United States
Good point. Done.
Yes, I got that. I'm just tired of people constantly misspelling character's names, and it's 1:30 AM here so I said it like that rather than just pointing it out.
switching to this, almost didn't because I will be going to bed and will not wake up until vote closes but mrttao convinced me.
[x] Plan Ambition
[X] Resources used
-[X] Two Red Spirit Stones, Argent Accumulation pill, Qi Foundation Pill
[X] Look into how Su Ling and Li Suyin are doing and cultivate at the vent
-[X] Spiritual
-[X] Give Su Ling the Lotus Root Pin and Li Suyin the Skirmisher's Anklets.
-[x] Warn them about their origin and to wear them discreetly to avoid trouble
[X] Cultivate on your own
-[x] At the vent, if you encounter Huang Da try to agree to coexist and cultivate peacefully. if he refuses then just escape.
-[x] 1x Spiritual
-[X] 3x Argent Soul
--[x] If through insane luck we manage to max AS with only 2 actions, then start yellow breakthrough
[x] Plan Ambition
[X] Resources used
-[X] Two Red Spirit Stones, Argent Accumulation pill, Qi Foundation Pill
[X] Look into how Su Ling and Li Suyin are doing and cultivate at the vent
-[X] Spiritual
-[X] Give Su Ling the Lotus Root Pin and Li Suyin the Skirmisher's Anklets.
-[x] Warn them about their origin and to wear them discreetly to avoid trouble
[X] Cultivate on your own
-[x] At the vent, if you encounter Huang Da try to agree to coexist and cultivate peacefully. if he refuses then just escape.
-[x] 1x Spiritual
-[X] 3x Argent Soul
--[x] If through insane luck we manage to max AS with only 2 actions, then start yellow breakthrough
Sirrocco
Pedantic
I like the adjustment, but I don't expect it to hit critical mass within the next 6-7 hours, and I'm not going to be here to check at that time, so I think I gotta stick with the base Plan Housekeeping. I wouldn't object to he change being incorporated in, though, if @TheLastOne happens to wander by before vote lock.
TheLastOne
Person of impeccable tastes (for destruction)
Which change? I already disagreed with part of it in the past.
Sirrocco
Pedantic
Ah. My apologies. I admit, I haven't read the entirety of the arguing back and forth. I was talking about the "if Yellow doesn't work the first time, move to trying to push Silver" thing.
- Location
- United States
Why? We can't have the 2nd attempt anyways if it fails and double breakthrough is an option. It's just micromanaging what we'd do if our 2nd action isn't available to pile on top of the first attempt due to first failure. The same thing as deciding to social. We do the same thing with Overflow priority. Plus write-ins have usually been accepted. Otherwise we can't be giving gear to our friends so others are invalid as well because that's included