To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

[X][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
[X][ROM] The Arcadians have the right to self-determination, we only demand they respect the safety of their neighbours
[X][TALK] Flood the broadcasts

@Everyone voting for the leave it to the Arcadians I highly suggest taking the -15 unilateral Release to greatly bump Tartresis so we can have the Atreides expy in our camp of a future gov.

[ ][PRIS] Release unilaterally (-15pp from disgruntled Federation members, greatly improve relations with Tartresis, improved relations with Licori)
[ ][ROM] We will put forward our case to the Arcadian people but ultimately we are not colonisers

Sure it costs 10 extra PP and we do not get the Ked Paddah +25 but we secure a good footing for future diplomancing and winning the peace.

Of course not leaving with a government that is friendly Federation is kind of a win the war and loose the peace kind of deal since without that we can not guarantee observers to be able to monitor and prevent full mentat conversion.

Random Member said:

Ultimately, I think that letting the Licori side with the Romulans will not make us much safer in the long run. Sure, in the short run the Romulans will keep any crazy experiments down, but what about 20, 50, 100 years from now? What if they're faced with total defeat against the Klingons?

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Accepting a "pro-Ro"m government now doesn't mean it will always remain so nor does it mean that we can't approach them in the future (and if the Roms should ever that desperate there is nothing stopping them from developing/creating their own mentats since that technology is almost certainly not something we can keep secret). Unlike the Cardassian the Roms are unlikely to station massive fleets/armies in the empire to keep their control (and with the Klingon war they can't afford doing so either) which greatly limits the ability of the RSE to dictate the future curse of the Licori Empire, especially once the later has somewhat recovered.

[X][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
[X][ROM] We will put forward our case to the Arcadian people but ultimately we are not colonisers
[X][TALK] Flood the broadcasts

[x][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
[x][ROM] We will put forward our case to the Arcadian people but ultimately we are not colonisers
[x][TALK] Flood the broadcasts

Random Member said:

Hmm, what exactly is the difference between these two?

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Stripping aside the exact working, this seems to me very obviously a "level of effort" vote with four possible levels to choose from.

1. Maximum resistance to Romulan influence
2. Strong resistance to Romulan influence
3. Some resistance to Romulan influence
4. No resistance to Romulan influence

The difference between those two is at least making a token effort and not trying at all.

Current leaders are very clear in each block.

That option is already winning, but I just thought I'd point out that the +25 would be enough to bump our relationship with the Ked Paddah to over 100, in case some people missed it.

OneirosTheWriter said:

[NB: The extra +22 assigned to the Orions during the previous turn was by mistake - it has now been attached to the Ked Paddah - 82/100]

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Derek58 said:

Current leaders are very clear in each block.

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True, but the vote's only been open a couple of hours. Lots of folks might not even have seen it yet.

MTB said:

// Not an empire quest. And "The <other party> has the right to self-determination, we only demand they respect the safety of their neighbours" is the core principle of the Federation, isn't it?

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Well yes. Unfortunately, the Romulans are screwing around, and they believe rather differently. We need to provide a counter weight or the Licori won't be self determining, the Romulans will be doing everything they can to determine the politics of the Licori.

Driven by Apathy said:

The Federation is good at winning hearts and minds, so we might as well try to do the right thing. Still, I really wish we had additional intelligence assets on Morshadd now...

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Also, major ++s with the Ked Paddah and less internal issues due to unhappy members if we do an exchange.

Briefvoice said:

Sometimes it is better to shut down the lies.

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Best way to shut down a lie is to expose it time and time and time again until exhaustion. Reveal your opponent to be a liar and people stop believing them, although convincing people a convenient and pleasant lie is false is hard.

OneirosTheWriter said:

No concession achieved in return.

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Well, that's a reasonable point. What's their beef in case of a Ked Paddah-Licori PoW exchange? No gains for the Federation?

Random Member said:

Hmm, what exactly is the difference between these two?

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The first one is 'We have an opinion on this matter and are stating it while the Romulans do so as well' and the second is 'We don't give a fuck, let the Romulans blabber, the Licori will decide what to believe.'

[X][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)

It makes us look reasonable and like we look out for our allies. Yes please.

[X][ROM] We will put forward our case to the Arcadian people but ultimately we are not colonisers

Let them make their own decisions, but to make a decision well you have to have all the facts, and Romulans are prone to... forgetting to tell some facts that are otherwise quite pertinent.

[X][TALK] Flood the broadcasts

'The mentat system is wonderful. Let me explain exactly how wonderful, and why that's been screwing you over.'

[X][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
[X][ROM] We will put forward our case to the Arcadian people but ultimately we are not colonisers
[X][TALK] Flood the broadcasts

[X] [PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
[x][ROM] The Arcadians have the right to self-determination, we only demand they respect the safety of their neighbours
[X][TALK] Flood the broadcasts

Feels like as aggressive as we can be in the Spirit of the Federation.

[X][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
[X][ROM] To justify the costs, it is crucial that the Licori end up with a Federation-friendly government
[X][TALK] Flood the broadcasts

[x][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
[x][ROM] We will put forward our case to the Arcadian people but ultimately we are not colonisers
[x][TALK] Flood the broadcasts

[X] [PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
[x][ROM] The Arcadians have the right to self-determination, we only demand they respect the safety of their neighbours
[X][TALK] Flood the broadcasts

[X][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
[X][ROM] We will put forward our case to the Arcadian people but ultimately we are not colonisers
[X][TALK] Flood the broadcasts

[x][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)

I'd rather not screw the KP over. The prisoners the Licori took for the prisoners we took seems fair to me

[x][ROM] We will put forward our case to the Arcadian people but ultimately we are not colonisers
[x][TALK] Flood the broadcasts

[x][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
[x][ROM] We will put forward our case to the Arcadian people but ultimately we are not colonisers
[x][TALK] Flood the broadcasts

@OneirosTheWriter - the KP will negotiate on their own with other houses for KP prisoners?

Well, there goes our last chance to put God Emperor Leto on the Imperial throne....

[X][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)

[X][ROM] We will put forward our case to the Arcadian people but ultimately we are not colonisers

[X][TALK] Flood the broadcasts

I wavered between the 2nd and 3rd options for the ROM vote. Culturally and diplomatically, laying out the facts and letting the Licori decide is most in line with Federation views, and the Pacifists will be happy with that. Politically and mechanically, there could be a non-Pacifist backlash if we don't get the best "deal" we can get along with the obvious benefits of having a friendlier neighbor. But it's also riskier since it could trigger further Romulan involvement, or worse, civil war as the FDS fears.

In the end, I decided the Romulan subterfuge and assassination shit is annoying me, so fck them.

[X][PRIS] Release unilaterally (-15pp from disgruntled Federation members, greatly improve relations with Tartresis, improved relations with Licori)
[X][ROM] To justify the costs, it is crucial that the Licori end up with a Federation-friendly government
[X][TALK] Flood the broadcasts

[X][ROM] We will put forward our case to the Arcadian people but ultimately we are not colonisers

them going to the romulans wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, at least now that we know they don't want the super weapons. That said we should offer a choice.

[X][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)

if the Ked Paddah hadn't bled alongside us I'd just let the prisoners go. but not helping our ally would be kind of a dick move.

[X][TALK] Flood the broadcasts

we are the federation. forcing an open dialog and winning on the strength of our position is sort of our hat.

OneirosTheWriter said:

In particular, the Tartresis wanted the return of their ranking surviving officer - Warmaster Halkh, who had skippered the AHS Pride. Information is gathered, including reports and logs from the officers who had met with them. In particular, you listen to the report of Commodore ka'Sharren, who informs you that the Warmaster read voraciously while in her brig, and was a willing dinner companion. He asked her about many topics political-science in nature.

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A male, Nash? Really? Huh.

Glassware said:

A male, Nash? Really? Huh.

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That wasn't seduction, that was geniuses talking shop about areas of interest.