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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)

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To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest) Starfleet Ship Design Bureau, Refit ("To Boldly Go...")
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Briefvoice said:
[X][TALK] Shut down the broadcasts

A lie runs around the world while the truth is still putting on its boots. If there's one thing the last year of real world politics has taught me, it's that you can't outargue bullshit. Your opponents will lie and lie and lie again in the time it takes to refute them. Sometimes it is better to shut down the lies.
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In real life, I would probably agree. (Though censorship is still distasteful, but when you're literally at war... suffice to say there are much worse things done in war)

In this Star Trek and this Quest, the Federation has shown a distinct tendency to take the high road and get away with it. To maintain my suspension of disbelief, I ascribe that to the Federation as a culture being just that good when it comes to using the truth as a weapon.

Whether it's good enough for this... I don't know. But censoring the Licori broadcasts seems risky as well. They still control most of their planets after all, we won't be able to censor them all, or even most of them.
 
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I find closing the broadcasts to be more of a Romulan method. Flooding them with the truth sounds more in-character for us.

Sure, we can use the shadows from time to time, but we're better at shining light in the darkness.
 
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[X] [PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
[x][ROM] The Arcadians have the right to self-determination, we only demand they respect the safety of their neighbours
[X][TALK] Flood the broadcasts
 
[X][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
[X][ROM] We will put forward our case to the Arcadian people but ultimately we are not colonisers
[X][TALK] Flood the broadcasts

I think it is worth discussing what our end-game is here. Personally, my aim is to achieve regime-change that results in a Licori society who will be good neighbours. As such, a neutral Licori state whose elites fear provoking the Federation with egregious super-science and whose common people at least harbour doubts about the wisdom of the extreme mentat conversions (if not outright opposed due to being convinced by Federation facts) would be ideal in my view. However, I don't see why the Romulans gaining the Licori as an ally is necessarily against our interests (though after the blood price the Federation paid, I foresee a real political backlash if the Romulans do profit from dead Starfleet officers and gutted Starfleet ships).

I'm wondering if we could have the FDS or Starfleet Intelligence slip the Romulans an "off the books communique"/"leaked memo" to tell them that if they do gain an alliance with/become power behind the throne to a house Bene Emperor, we'll be holding them responsible for any rogue super-science the Licori produce.

And I have to say, I really don't think this is the time to make the Licori a Federation member. And not for a long time in the future either. If nothing else, Starfleet can't cover the extra volume of space.

fasquardon
 
[X][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
-[X] Except for any full-conversion Mentats, who will have to be carefully vetted before we release them.

[X][ROM] We will put forward our case to the Arcadian people but ultimately we are not colonisers

[X][TALK] Flood the broadcasts
 
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Briefvoice said:
A lie runs around the world while the truth is still putting on its boots. If there's one thing the last year of real world politics has taught me, it's that you can't outargue bullshit. Your opponents will lie and lie and lie again in the time it takes to refute them. Sometimes it is better to shut down the lies.
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Click to shrink...

Uh, I learned a completely different lesson from recent elections: spill all the dirt you can find on your opponent to drown out the shit that's being thrown at you.

That's not exactly an option, but "Flood the broadcasts" is the closest to it.

Besides, real world politics in a society of free, hard-to-block, and easily accessible information is not very applicable to the Licori feudal society. And it's not like shutting down broadcasts will stop word of mouth, not without boots on the ground and chilling punitive measures.
 
[X][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
[X][ROM] We will put forward our case to the Arcadian people but ultimately we are not colonisers
[X][TALK] Flood the broadcasts
 
[X][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
[X][ROM] To justify the costs, it is crucial that the Licori end up with a Federation-friendly government
[X][TALK] Flood the broadcasts


Anything less than this ROM option basically invalidates the whole point of the war. Our objective was to ensure mentats are no longer a threat. Without a strong influence in the post war Arcadian government we cannot achieve that. I would expect the Hawks to be furious if we do back down, and the Expansionist to be pretty unhappy too. The Developers were the driving force in this war and though they might be divided on the issue of its enforcement (Given that their entire plan has been pretty vague from the beginning) i'm pretty sure they can be made to see that this is the best option. Only the Pacifists will be outraged by this.

The idea that we have no right to interfere with their government has long ago been discarded, It was the entire point of the war. It is ALL we have been doing since day one of this conflict. If we turn away now it has all been for nothing.
 
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[x][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
[x][ROM] We will put forward our case to the Arcadian people but ultimately we are not colonisers
[x][TALK] Flood the broadcasts

I'll be honest, I find myself uninterested in keeping the Rommies from taking the Arcadians if they ultimately really want it. Hell, back at the start of the crisis I was kind of hoping we could just point the RSE at the issue and get away with not doing the dirty work ourselves.

Sure, it'd be nice to have them on, which is why I'm voting to put in a good-faith attempt at it, but as far as I'm concerned this crisis is basically over, and we've just about won regardless of who is personally telling the mentats to stay in line.
 
I have to ask, why are Federation member governments getting irritated over a prisoner exchange?

[X][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
[X][ROM] We will put forward our case to the Arcadian people but ultimately we are not colonisers
[X][TALK] Flood the broadcasts
 
[X][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
[X][ROM] We will put forward our case to the Arcadian people but ultimately we are not colonisers
[X][TALK] Flood the broadcasts
Adhoc vote count started by Thors_Alumni on May 18, 2017 at 9:29 AM, finished with 47624 posts and 26 votes.
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Adhoc vote count started by Thors_Alumni on May 18, 2017 at 9:30 AM, finished with 47624 posts and 26 votes.
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Adhoc vote count started by Thors_Alumni on May 18, 2017 at 9:31 AM, finished with 47625 posts and 26 votes.
Click to expand...
 
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Briefvoice said:
A lie runs around the world while the truth is still putting on its boots. If there's one thing the last year of real world politics has taught me, it's that you can't outargue bullshit. Your opponents will lie and lie and lie again in the time it takes to refute them. Sometimes it is better to shut down the lies.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

There's some evidence that a real education (that is, providing people the information and experience to form their own opinions - as opposed to indoctrination where you just tell people what to believe) in politics makes them very resistant to being bullshat upon or indoctrinated by politicians.

Also, in politics, arguing never changes anyone's mind (indeed there's very strong evidence that it only serves to strengthen the beliefs of the person you are arguing with). But the "flood the broadcasts" option isn't arguing. At least not how I'm reading it. Rather it is the Federation providing the other half of the story, and letting the Licori draw their own conclusions.

fasquardon
 
The current broadcasts are only telling the side of the story they've been telling for centuries.

If we shut it down they still have their original bias.

By putting our message put there we at least give them something to think about.

Plus the way this war has gone has done much to demonstrate the advantages of our system.
 
[X][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
[X][ROM] To justify the costs, it is crucial that the Licori end up with a Federation-friendly government
[X][TALK] Flood the broadcasts
 
[X][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
[X][ROM] We will put forward our case to the Arcadian people but ultimately we are not colonisers
[X][TALK] Flood the broadcasts
 
[x][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
[x][ROM] We will put forward our case to the Arcadian people but ultimately we are not colonisers
[x][TALK] Flood the broadcasts
 
[x][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)
[x][ROM] We will put forward our case to the Arcadian people but ultimately we are not colonisers
[x][TALK] Flood the broadcasts
 
So people are aware:
https://forums.sufficientvelocity.c...hip-design-bureau-to-boldly-go.33039/page-136

I have put out a little invitation to create the next generation of Amarkian frigate(s). I hope to be doing this kind of thing a bit in future on that thread. If all goes well on this project, I'll consider allowing them to design the Laio's space fleets. Anyone is able to take part, designs chosen by QM on merit rather than popular vote though.
 
[X][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)

Better relations with both the Licori and the Ked Paddah at the low price of 5pp? Sounds like a deal!

[X][TALK] Flood the broadcasts

Just shutting down the broadcasts doesn't really do much to change the opinions the people already have. Better start our own campaign.

[X][ROM] To justify the costs, it is crucial that the Licori end up with a Federation-friendly government

Ultimately, I think that letting the Licori side with the Romulans will not make us much safer in the long run. Sure, in the short run the Romulans will keep any crazy experiments down, but what about 20, 50, 100 years from now? What if they're faced with total defeat against the Klingons?
 
[X][PRIS] Exchange for the Ked Paddah Prisoners (-5pp from disgruntled Federation members, improved relations with Tartresis and Licori, +25 with Ked Paddah)

[X][ROM] The Arcadians have the right to self-determination, we only demand they respect the safety of their neighbours

I think the wording of those options could use some improvement since it many cases I feel a bit lost when it comes to deciphering what they actually mean in practical terms and I am more than a bit surprised at for example the "justify the war" one considering it seems at odds with the previous portrayal of the federation but that may be just me. I think the president is overreaching here (once again) andI am honestly happy to put thise whole campgain behind me...


[X][TALK] Flood the broadcasts

Neither action is very appetizing to me but trying to silence news like this in a society as advanced like that seems doomed to fail and in my opinion always cries "guilty".
 
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