To Boldly Go... (a Starfleet quest)
- Thread starter OneirosTheWriter
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I dunno, @Simon_Jester. Thuir says "we will need to choose carefully what we want to soften up first" and follows it by "before taking on Ixaria itself".
Therefore, the plan is:
Pick "up to three" targets to soften up the system.
Then take on Ixaria itself.
There's nothing to suggest we get to run wild and wreck every target in the system in multiple waves. We get to pick three targets, then they take on Ixaria itself. Everything points in this direction, the mention of splitting the fleet three ways at most, the time limit that both the KP and Thuir acknowledge, and Thuir's very precise statement that we will need to select what to hit before we hit Ixaria itself.
That, I can agree with.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
If Eaton can time her attack to be simultaneous with the attack on Ixaria (not too much to hope for but we have no confirmation of it), and if the Ked Paddah delay their attack until Eaton is ready (likewise), then yes. That would be one of the better aspects of this situation.
...Uh, RageMaion , could you do me a favor and explain how you arrived at a line of reasoning under which the Ixaria VII station is so important that it should be our only target? More important than the system that lets enemy ships sneak up on us? More important than the system that forcibly scatters our fleet and prevents it from fighting in formation? More important than the station in close orbit around Ixaria's star that we strongly suspect is a weapon?
I mean don't get me wrong, shield penetration is a powerful mechanic, but it's not that powerful.
If so, then this offensive is very ill-advised, unless we have reason to be sure there will be no major reinforcements coming to Ixaria.
And yet many of us believe that there will be a heavy wave of reinforcements doing exactly that, maybe as early as the "step two" battle in which we are apparently going to be committed to attacking Ixaria Prime whether we like it or not.
So to be clear, below I refer to "this hypothesis." The hypothesis I mean is "there are going to be heavy reinforcements coming to Ixaria in response to our attack, shortly after our first wave of attacks against the defenses, or at any rate before we could complete a second wave of such attacks."
...
If this hypothesis is true, then Thuir and the Ked Peddah are setting themselves up for a situation in which they have only begun to thin out the defenses, and are engaged heavily in battle with the Ixaria Prime planetary fortifications, when suddenly a large reinforcement fleet hits them, still buffed by the bulk of the Ixaria defense network. This is a recipe for military disaster and I am flabbergasted that anyone would consider this to be a good strategy. The potential for disaster remains high regardless of whether we concentrate our force in the first wave of attacks, or whether we disperse our force. Because while the latter option means we risk having one of our component forces mauled by the Ixira defense fleet, the former option means that the already powerful defenses in place to 'buff' the reinforcement fleet become even stronger.
So if this hypothesis is true, then the only prudent strategy we could be pursuing was that of raiding: a "hit and run" strike designed to damage the Ixaria system defenses and retreat before taking significant losses. There is NO low-risk way to attack this star system if we are limited to a single wave of attacks against the defenses, after which we are forced to attack Ixaria Prime and/or deal with a major reinforcement fleet.
...
Alternatively, suppose this hypothesis is not true. If so, then there is no obvious reason why we cannot or should not launch multiple waves of attacks to thin out the defenses. We are under no obligation to charge into the thickest part of the enemy's fortifications, before neutralizing the various forces that are poised to stab us in the back. Indeed, it would seem a matter of basic common sense that we do so, rather than leaving ourselves vulnerable.
If we could launch two waves of successful attacks against the defenses, then even if we had to retreat from the system with many ships damaged and did NOT succeed in capturing the system, that would still be a victory. Because at that point, the Ixaria system would be open and vulnerable to conquest by our remaining forces. Its "teeth" would have been largely removed, or at least blunted.
If the Licori wished to preserve the defensibility of the system, House Ixara would have to appeal to the Emperor to station a large fraction of the Licori fleet in the system. We could then use other task forces like Nash's fleet or the Gaeni fleet, plus the remnant of Thuir and the Ked Paddah's forces, to assault the system and destroy that fleet. We'd be buying a very valuable advantage with the damage to the fleet now planning to attack Ixaria... If we could launch two waves of attacks against the defenses. The effect is greatly decreased if we only get one wave, instead.
...
So to summarize, if this hypothesis is true, then the entire attack plan is ill-conceived and there is no feasible way to make it low risk other than to 'demote' the plan to a mere raid against one or two of the Ixaria defense stations- and such a raid would not achieve much unless we have specific, actionable plans for follow-up attacks. That sounds like exactly the trap the Ked Paddah have been sucked into, causing them to fight eight previous battles for this system: repeated, low-risk, low-reward offensives that accomplish nothing decisive and leave us trapped in a perpetual status quo.
And if this hypothesis is false, then there is no reason for Thuir and the Ked Paddah to restrict themselves to one wave of attacks against the defenses before hitting Ixaria Prime. There would be good reasons for them not to thus restrict themselves.
If they can see the bulk of the Arcadian fleet approaching at high warp, then they have the option of halting proceedings if they feel that the defences have not been sufficiently degraded, or their own forces have been too degraded.
It is only an issue if the Arcadian reinforcements are able to enter the system without being detected, or they only become detectable a short time before entry while the fleet is assaulting the prime planet.
The tempo of the assault is in the hands of Thuir and the Ked Paddah - they can halt at any time, they don't need to push through if they feel the risks are unwarranted.
It is only an issue if the Arcadian reinforcements are able to enter the system without being detected, or they only become detectable a short time before entry while the fleet is assaulting the prime planet.
The tempo of the assault is in the hands of Thuir and the Ked Paddah - they can halt at any time, they don't need to push through if they feel the risks are unwarranted.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
The thing is, they have excellent reason to worry that the Licori can conceal the approach of a reinforcement fleet from us using Silent Repose. We're not SURE that's possible, but it's a very real possibility. They're literally flying into the middle of a giant jamming envelope, after all.*
So basically, you're right that the tempo of operations is under Thuir and the Ked Paddah's control, but they don't have the information to decide whether or not to retreat until after Silent Repose goes down.
If they were worried about reinforcements reaching the system so quickly that it would be a problem during "Wave Two" attacks, then they should be requiring an attack on Silent Repose; it shouldn't even be a question in their minds. The Ked Paddah certainly wouldn't want to go wandering into a fog bank their enemy can see through and they can't, and wander around in the middle of it, and expect to be able to withdraw on detecting the enemy. Because the whole point of that fog bank is to let the enemy jump out and beat you up before you can react.
_________________________________
*Yes, there may be some technicality or exact-words detail that appears to make this not a danger. However, in-universe they probably can't know the exact limits of SIlent Repose, and it may well have been upgraded recently anyway. So assuming that the precise limits of its capability can be determined by lawyering is... imprudent.
So basically, you're right that the tempo of operations is under Thuir and the Ked Paddah's control, but they don't have the information to decide whether or not to retreat until after Silent Repose goes down.
If they were worried about reinforcements reaching the system so quickly that it would be a problem during "Wave Two" attacks, then they should be requiring an attack on Silent Repose; it shouldn't even be a question in their minds. The Ked Paddah certainly wouldn't want to go wandering into a fog bank their enemy can see through and they can't, and wander around in the middle of it, and expect to be able to withdraw on detecting the enemy. Because the whole point of that fog bank is to let the enemy jump out and beat you up before you can react.
_________________________________
*Yes, there may be some technicality or exact-words detail that appears to make this not a danger. However, in-universe they probably can't know the exact limits of SIlent Repose, and it may well have been upgraded recently anyway. So assuming that the precise limits of its capability can be determined by lawyering is... imprudent.
AKuz
Been Better
- Location
- A Rising Tide of Horrors
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Apropos of nothing...
"Things that Alexandria Kuznetsova has queried of the Starfleet Intelligence Secured Network (Often in a panic) late at night:"
>"Dilithium cups real?"
>"Is dilithium toxic?"
>"IS DILITHIUM SAFE TO DRINK OUT OF"
>"Cats."
>"Cat Intelligence"
>"Augment experimentation with animal intelligence"
>"List of famous cats; end of Eugenics wars to present"
>"Cats in Starfleet: 2260-2280"
>"Cats in Starfleet: 2260-2280 NOT(Caitians)"
>"USS Hood Mascot, Cats, 2260-2280"
>"USS Potemkin Mascot, Cats, 2260-2280"
>"Colonel Fluffingsworth the Third, Grand Champion, Sol District"
>"Starfleet Implants"
>"Starfleet Contraceptive Implants"
>"Starfleet Contraceptive Implant Failure"
>"Starfleet Contraceptive Implant; length of time active hormone remains in bloodstream"
>"Celebratory Ice cream: something fruity"
>"USS Enterprise Smart?"
>"USS Enterprise Intelligence?"
>"USS Enterprise Intelligence? NOT(M5)"
>"Memoirs, James T Kirk"
>"Memoirs, Jonathon Archer"
>"Logs, John Harriman"
>"Logs, Nash Ka'Sharren"
>"Logs, Samhaya Mrr'Shan"
>"Ships have souls?"
>"Ship "souls", Emergent Property of Computer Interface System?"
>"Ship "souls", Kadeshi theory on unforeseen emergent biological Interface systems"
>"Ship souls, Indorian theory"
>"Ship souls, Human"
>"KanColle?"
>"KanColle, Game?"
>"Religion"
>"God"
>"Gods"
>" "Gods" "
>"Non-corporal Life forms"
>"USS Miracht Logs"
>"USS Odyssy Logs"
>"Q"
>"Starfleet Intelligence Analysis: Q"
>"I know that you're watching"
>"Hi"
>"Devron System"
>"Time Travel Licroi?"
>"Time Travel LICORI"
>"USS Lion, Loss of"
>"Logs, USS Blizzard"
>"Logs, Enterprise NX-01"
>"Memoirs, Jonathon Archer, Captain Enterprise, NX-01"
>"Theory: Dragon Break Event"
>"Licori Dragon Break Event?"
>"Gaeni Dragon Break Event?!"
>"Mentat Dikhed"
>"Mentat Dikhed, Legend of"
>"Mentat Dikhed. Myth or Reality?"
>"House Ixaria"
>"Commodore Thuir contact Info"
>"How to hide from Department of Temporal Investigations?"
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The implication is that the enemy reinforcements won't arrive in time to save Ixaria from being placed under orbital siege. Essentially, the battle for Ixaria Prime orbit must be won and won cleanly enough that opposing reinforcements become pointless.
But if we dallied and took time to carefully pluck all the in-system defenses, then we wouldn't be able to fight that battle in time before their reinforcements arrive, and in fact, our slow method might even encourage them to send the reinforcements in the first place.
In other words, the KP are betting that the timer is between your two extremes.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Enterprise: "Gods of space love you, you got so close before you started wandering away."
[smiles, tries to help]
A. Kuznetsova:
"How the hell did "Phoenix, by Julia Ecklar" turn up in my search results?"
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- Location
- Australia
RIGHT VOTE IS CLOSED NOW, LET'S SET SOME SHIT ON FIRE
Inserted tally - Three targets to be set on fire.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Well, I can't guarantee nothing will go wrong, but I really do hope nothing goes wrong because of Thuir or the Ked Paddah doing something dumb. That'd be disillusioning, to say the least...
- Location
- Australia
Perhaps the greatest irony is that war with the Arcadian Empire is far, far from a precise science
- Location
- Patriarchova
Perhaps the greatest irony is that war with the Arcadian Empire is far, far from a precise science
Nothing ironic about that. "Imprecise science" seems to be the Licori claim to fame.
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
No, it'd be the thread doing something dumb.
Ok, so going for the silo supplying Subspace Wavefront System (travel disruption)
The Star for the New Research Station in Orbit (unknown purpose)
And Silent Repose (the one hiding their ships from our sensors)
Leaves the stations giving +Shields, +Combat and +Shield Burn through as well as the long range torpedo system. This is so going to hurt.
If the combined fleet is successful at taking the targets out, we will at least be able to see the enemy and not be scattered (plus whatever the sun station does - a big gun, a bomb, a trap, a decoy ...), but that enemy is going to hit like a fleet of capital ships.
The Star for the New Research Station in Orbit (unknown purpose)
And Silent Repose (the one hiding their ships from our sensors)
Leaves the stations giving +Shields, +Combat and +Shield Burn through as well as the long range torpedo system. This is so going to hurt.
If the combined fleet is successful at taking the targets out, we will at least be able to see the enemy and not be scattered (plus whatever the sun station does - a big gun, a bomb, a trap, a decoy ...), but that enemy is going to hit like a fleet of capital ships.
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Theunderbolt
"Prepare for trouble..."
- Location
- USoA
- Location
- Patriarchova
The way I see it, the ship-boosting facilities are only going to be really dangerous if the Ixara have more ships than we expected, in which case our invasion was probably doomed to begin with.
I am concerned about that torpedo launcher though. Especially if it can fire multiple times per battle.
Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
You know, our plan could be good and we could still be fucked over by the RNG because Combat Generator-chan hates our guts and prefers manly Klingon warriors.
I would like to point out that in terms of fall-out from ships damaged or destroyed, this is least-bad any Arcadian assault is likely to be.
Well over half the fleet belongs to a power that is not even an affiliate. Of our ships, all except two are Starfleet rather than Member world fleet. This is the fight where casualties will have the least effect on war support, as long as we get a victory in the end. If RNG sacrifices a bunch of Ked Peddah ships, we can live with that.
Well over half the fleet belongs to a power that is not even an affiliate. Of our ships, all except two are Starfleet rather than Member world fleet. This is the fight where casualties will have the least effect on war support, as long as we get a victory in the end. If RNG sacrifices a bunch of Ked Peddah ships, we can live with that.
- Location
- Patriarchova
[><] Reorganize Ixara task force command.
-[><] Commander Wolfe
- Location
- Australia
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
It probably acts as a ship that can't be fired back at, in every battle in the system.
Propably just one battle at a time, though, unless it seriously splits it's fire.