If I remember right, DS9 is a Bajoran station administrated by Starfleet. Bajor surrendered to the Dominion to keep out of the fighting until the Alpha quadrant was able to re-take the station.
More to the point, as seen in Civil Defense, DS9 does have an auto-destruct built into it by the Cardassians, which involved deliberately provoking an overload in the station's main fusion reactor.
 
Haven't they already transformed this system into a fortress? If we gain control, they would most likely have to work against the defensive measures they installed in the first place. Switching the IFF systems to register our ships as friendlies and the opposing ships as foes, repairing the defenses that were damaged in our taking of the system, and replacing the personal manning the defenses to be our people. After that, any attempt to reinforce or recapture the system would be stuck dealing with the same defenses that were able to foil 7 consecutive attempts to overcome said fortifications, or in other words, hoist by their own petard.
Yes, that would be ideal, although there's no way it's that simple. If the reinforcements are large enough and the facilities difficult to control then we may have to execute a scorched earth strategy. But Briefvoice's argument went that we would have to fight Imperial reinforcements immediately during the battle for Ixaria Prime orbit.

If you agree that we should gain control of the system before reinforcements arrive, then you are agreeing with me in premise.
 
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[X] Ixaria VI - "Silent Repose"
[X] Ixaria Prime - Moon Only (Silo Storage Centre)
[X] Ixaria Star
Adhoc vote count started by Thors_Alumni on Apr 29, 2017 at 5:17 PM, finished with 358 posts and 32 votes.

Adhoc vote count started by Thors_Alumni on Apr 29, 2017 at 5:19 PM, finished with 358 posts and 32 votes.

Adhoc vote count started by Thors_Alumni on Apr 29, 2017 at 5:20 PM, finished with 358 posts and 32 votes.

Adhoc vote count started by Thors_Alumni on Apr 29, 2017 at 5:33 PM, finished with 359 posts and 33 votes.

Adhoc vote count started by Thors_Alumni on Apr 29, 2017 at 8:18 PM, finished with 368 posts and 35 votes.

Adhoc vote count started by Thors_Alumni on Apr 29, 2017 at 10:06 PM, finished with 138 posts and 30 votes.
 
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Hey guys, what's..

Ixaria System & Known Defences

Ixaria Star
- Ordinary G-Type Star
New Research Station in Orbit, unknown purpose

Ixaria I
- Rocky, Barren, Uninhabitable
"Iron Dome" : Research Station in Orbit, capable of giving up to three Arcadian ships x2 L

Ixaria II
- Ammonium-Sulphur Atmosphere, Hell Planet, uninhabitable
Industrial Platforms: Starship Components
One Station


Ixaria Prime (3rd Planet)
- Habitable, Glacial World apart from thin strip of arable land around equator
Two heavily reinforced Outposts
Logistics Station, Reinforced
"Subspace Wavefront System" : Three Research Stations capable of disrupting travel in-system and causing ships to arrive at the wrong destination (Rec-T test for ships to arrive together)
Shipyard (Ixaria House Yard - 1x750kt)


-Moon: Lux
One Silo Storage Centre - Required to operate Subspace Wavefront System
Reinforced Station


Ixaria IV
- Rocky, Barren
"High Intensity Beam" : Research Station capable of giving +2 C to up to three Arcadian ships in system

Ixaria V
- Gas Giant, large rings
In-system Shipyard
Defensive Station
"Iron Hail" : Long-Range Torpedo defence system


-Moon: Muhiit
- Ocean, partially terraformed, important aquaculture food supply
Logistics Station, Reinforced
Trading Station


Ixaria VI
- Gas Giant
"Silent Repose" : Research Station capable of masking all ships within the system from enemy sensors
Trading Station - Safe harbour of heavy minefield where transports can take shelter


Ixaria VII
- Icy Rock Ball
"Ixira's Scalpel" : Double the S boost to Burnthrough Chance given by the Tech Ship Doctrine to Arcadian ships in-system


- And of course there are minefields just about everywhere -

This kind of shit is why I wanted to bring in the Romulans. Having a cloaked flotilla to take out one of those superweapons would've been soo useful...
 
If the sun station is a sun-based superweapon, I'm looking forward to the explanation of the FTL effect it's going to have.
 
While it's on the mind, some more questions for @OneirosTheWriter:
- Just to confirm, we're currently voting on targets to split the fleet to hit? Or is this a priority list that does not involve splitting the fleet?
- Is this target list followed by hitting Ixaria Prime or what is the planned follow up?
- What's the outlook if the KP and Thuir decide to withdraw after hitting the target list? Under what conditions would they decide to withdraw?
- What estimate of opposing ships do the Ked Paddah expect at what stages of the operation?
- At what point in the operation do the Ked Paddah expect opposing reinforcements to arrive and in what numbers are their best estimates?
- Can the boosting structures (double shields, +2C) boost fixed defenses too or just ships?
 
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Hm yeah, those are some important questions.

Wasn't that only while dealing with the biophague and such systems were immediately removed afterwords? Besides that, seeing as we are dealing with instillations instead of vessels, it is unlikely that they would be any warp core inside the instillations to self-destruct. … actually, maybe using the veterans of the Syndicate conflict would be the best suited to be used to land onto the instillations to claim them as our own.
Not a lot of time to bring in troops from elsewhere. That fleet goes in with what it has.

I see. In the case where we are expected to have to fight a full reinforcement fleet from the Empire, I recommend we abort the mission or turn it into a pure base strike raid. Our task force for this operation is nowhere big enough to defeat a significant part of the Empire's forces...
It... actually kind of is, it's just not big enough to do so while dealing with the various advantages the Ixiran home system defenses offer. The combined force is, what... Combat 70? Eighty? Something like that. In a fair fight we could probably handle any likely Licori force smaller than 'literally every ship they have' and give about as good as we get, if not better.

Because we are obviously not doing that, I don't believe that our battle for Ixaria Prime orbit will be against a large reinforcement fleet. Rather, it appears to me that the plan is to seize the system entirely before reinforcements can arrive.
The problem is that the strongest individual target IN the system is the homeworld, and the strength of the homeworld is vastly amplified by all the weird exotic stuff the Ixirans have going, including...
-Weapons that could potentially fry our whole fleet (we don't know).
-Super-duper-shield-reinforcement.
-Artillery support that can presumably engage us from anywhere in the solar system.
-The ability to sneak up on us without us having any idea they were coming, using what few ships they do have to hit us when we least expect it and can ill afford it.

So there is very much a balance to strike between softening up the most threatening parts of the defenses, striking directly at the heart of their defenses and staging a coup de main, and minimizing our exposure to minefields.

Okay. If we're going to do it that way, I'd say that because we have been given no in-character notification that our task force is insufficient to contest three objectives, and not contesting a third objective was not part of the original post, we have no reason to think that our forces are unable to target three objectives successfully. Like, this goes beyond assuming a trap option and into deliberately handicapping ourselves because you think Oneiros has given us an entire trap update. This is unhelpful levels of paranoia.
Honestly, my main reason for voting to hit two targets is just because I want maximum concentration of force to wipe out the targets I consider most threatening. If the Ixira system's mines turn out to be as terrifying as we believe, at least we'll be able to withdraw in good order if we can't afford to take more passes through minefields.

Basically, I figure there are THREE ways we could really screw up this operation:
1) We attack various targets and it turns out the sun-station is a superweapon like Doc Smith's "sunbeam," in which case we're screwed.
2) We attack various targets while scattered, with our navigation and communications impaired by their defenses, and their mobile fleet hits us in such a way as to cause heavy damage to a subfleet already battered by mines.
3) We go head-on against their home planet without proper preparation, and the sheer multiple levels of stacked-up defensive might result in them hulking out and beating us in a straight fight.

I think SWB is setting us up for the third option by going after the homeworld only.

Ignoring the station around the star would put us in danger of the first option, although I suspect the Ixira station may NOT be configured to use the sun as a discriminate superweapon, in which case it might be safe to save that target for the second round of attacks.

The second possibility, though, is a threat not to be despised- and our only real counter for it is to concentrate our forces until we're sure we can keep track of their movements and know what they have in-system to jump us with.

Hey guys, what's..

This kind of shit is why I wanted to bring in the Romulans. Having a cloaked flotilla to take out one of those superweapons would've been soo useful...
I think it would be premature to do anything that might result in the Romulans learning to blow up stars.

If the sun station is a sun-based superweapon, I'm looking forward to the explanation of the FTL effect it's going to have.
Well, if it's like Doc Smith's sunbeam, it could use the star as a power supply, draining energy from it via some exotic field effect to power a beam that runs on non-Standard Model physics and does propagate faster than light.
 
I'm a little split on this vote.

I think it's a choice between going after Silent Repose OR going after the Subspace Wavefront System. If we take out Silent Repose being split up won't matter as much because we'll be able to play risk-reward with how much strength to commit to different planets.

However, I think the Wavefront system is far more important. It allows us to effectively concentrate unopposed, which means even if we don't know the exact number of ships over a planet, we can lump up and be reasonably sure our concentrated firepower can defeat them. So I think the silos are a critical target.

The sunstation is obviously ominous and will need to be destroyed, so that's critical #2.

Here comes my big split feelings. Reading through the combat log with the new engines, it's really appearent what made the Enterprise and Sarek such beasts in the mock battles was their high L amounts making it hard to burn through and do significant, C-reducing damage.

If the Empire does show up with battleships, fighting them with 2xL will be a nightmare. That makes Iron Dome a high priority to eliminate. In addition, I don't think it's actually protected by outposts, unlike the Subspace Wavefront System.

However, I share @SynchronizedWritersBlock 's concerns about mines. They have been the biggest threats to our ships since the Courageous struck one. It makes me nervous about going for all three targets because we're liable to lose a ship for each one, nevermind a likely fight going after the silos for the Subspace Wavefront System w/ two outposts in orbit of the primary.

Honestly, I've been pretty frustrated with how effective mines are. I'll grant they must have some ability to manuever in order to hit ships (or might be Casaba-Howitzer devices), but Iit seems bizarre that they're so damage-dealing despite costing 'as much' as photon torpeodos. The only way that makes sense to me is if mines are 100-ton fusion devices with yields in the 500MT range, if that's even feasible. Which I guess would be cheaper than filling up AM pods. More importantly though, it seems totally at odds with how Trek combat works. Mines played an important role like what, once in all of Trek? Maybe I'm forgetting something in TOS, but certainly in DS9 it was more Orbital Weapons Platforms that were the issue.

So basically, the question comes down to -- what's a bigger threat? Mines, or ships with 2xL? I honestly don't know. But since Iron Dome isn't getting votes anyways, I might as well get the ball rolling.

[X] Ixaria I - "Iron Dome"
[X] Ixaria Prime - Moon Only (Silo Storage Centre)
[X] Ixaria Star
 
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[X] Ixaria I - "Iron Dome"
[X] Ixaria Prime - Moon Only (Silo Storage Centre)
[X] Ixaria Star

I do hope that a number of these wunderwaffe end up being safe and reproducable enough to use in some of our systems.
 
[X] Ixaria I - "Iron Dome"
[X] Ixaria Prime - Moon Only (Silo Storage Centre)
[X] Ixaria Star

I do hope that a number of these wunderwaffe end up being safe and reproducable enough to use in some of our systems.
How are we supposed to reproduce what is soon to be nothing but free floating atomic particles, and I doubt that any of the mentants are coherent enough to think of creating blueprints to allow their creations to be rebuilt if destroyed. I think it is safe to assume that all Lictori devices suffer from a severe case of no plans, no prototype, no backup.
 
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I just had a horrifying thought. What if a mentat was working on some thing similar to the biophage. What would happen?
 
I just had a horrifying thought. What if a mentat was working on some thing similar to the biophage. What would happen?
Well, that is a more kind idea than one I had a while ago. Pondering the fact that the biophague's escaped from the neutral zone and the most likely species it would contact would be Gain or the Lictor combined with the dramatic change in coloration in the Mentants are subject to, the idea I had was the process of creating Mentants is through controlled infection of Lictori individuals with the Biophague, with their experation date being the point where the Biophague gains complete control and are terminated through devices surgically implanted inside their body before they infect other individuals.
 
[glances up a bit, yucks, moves on to try and reassure people]

I just had a horrifying thought. What if a mentat was working on some thing similar to the biophage. What would happen?
It depends on how good a job they did. The most likely outcome given how reckless mentats are is that the ghastly nanomechanical space virus they were working on would simply eat them and become everyone else's problem.

I think it's a choice between going after Silent Repose OR going after the Subspace Wavefront System. If we take out Silent Repose being split up won't matter as much because we'll be able to play risk-reward with how much strength to commit to different planets.

However, I think the Wavefront system is far more important. It allows us to effectively concentrate unopposed, which means even if we don't know the exact number of ships over a planet, we can lump up and be reasonably sure our concentrated firepower can defeat them. So I think the silos are a critical target.

The sunstation is obviously ominous and will need to be destroyed, so that's critical #2.

Here comes my big split feelings. Reading through the combat log with the new engines, it's really appearent what made the Enterprise and Sarek such beasts in the mock battles was their high L amounts making it hard to burn through and do significant, C-reducing damage.
If by 'burn through' you mean 'beat down the shields by sheer brute force,' you're right.*

Thing is, the Empire's ships (if they're coming) is going to take some time to get here. Warp drive flight between even nearby star systems takes hours or days, not minutes. If we can't hit two waves of targets in that amount of time, then the Ked Paddah would have been complete morons to plan to capture this system. At most they would be planning to raid it, to do what is in military terms literally called "reducing the defenses" as preparation for future attacks.

If the Empire does show up with battleships, fighting them with 2xL will be a nightmare. That makes Iron Dome a high priority to eliminate. In addition, I don't think it's actually protected by outposts, unlike the Subspace Wavefront System.
Iron Dome is arguably the highest priority target after Silent Repose, and the Subspace Wavefront System, and the sun station.

Unlike the last two items on that list, it lacks the ability to cause a disaster for our fleet all by itself. It's only going to be a problem for us if we're fighting an enemy force that was already within shouting distance of our task forces' combat power.

I'd say that Iron Dome is a major target for follow-up attacks; I'd recommend throwing our next round of attacks at Iron Dome, the long range torpedo battery around Ixira V, and possibly the "high energy beam" installation if we haven't already taken out Silent Repose.

After THAT, we'll have pretty well pulled the teeth of the Ixira system's defenses. If an Imperial reinforcement fleet is inbound, we may have to fall back before hitting the homeworld, but we'll have left Ixira extremely vulnerable to a prompt followup attack from, say, Nash's fleet plus the Gaeni task force.
____________________________________

*[Personally this is why I differentiate between 'burnthrough' damage caused while shields are still functional and 'blowthrough' damage that hurts the hull after the shields are gone.]

However, I share @SynchronizedWritersBlock 's concerns about mines. They have been the biggest threats to our ships since the Courageous struck one. It makes me nervous about going for all three targets because we're liable to lose a ship for each one, nevermind a likely fight going after the silos for the Subspace Wavefront System w/ two outposts in orbit of the primary.
The idea behind targeting the silos is to engage them without having to fight past the outposts.

We'll probably still have to contend with a minefield. But what it comes down to is that every time our ships attack a target, they risk getting hit by mines. If we attack only one wave of targets and then run (or win by seizing their main world, assuming the rest of the system surrenders which is NOT certain)... Well, then our ships have to roll a "mine check" once- but we also have to contend with the full concentrated power of their strongest defenses right over their main world.

If we hit two waves of targets, we roll mine checks twice- but we strip away so much of the Ixira system's defenses that we can afford to send in a whole new fleet to actually take down the system.

If we hit three waves of targets, we're gonna have problems with mines, I have to admit... but we'll have a lot less problems than we'd otherwise have with the outposts, and we'll probably have knocked out the enemy's ships in-system by then.

Honestly, I've been pretty frustrated with how effective mines are. I'll grant they must have some ability to manuever in order to hit ships (or might be Casaba-Howitzer devices), but Iit seems bizarre that they're so damage-dealing despite costing 'as much' as photon torpeodos. The only way that makes sense to me is if mines are 100-ton fusion devices with yields in the 500MT range, if that's even feasible. Which I guess would be cheaper than filling up AM pods. More importantly though, it seems totally at odds with how Trek combat works. Mines played an important role like what, once in all of Trek? Maybe I'm forgetting something in TOS, but certainly in DS9 it was more Orbital Weapons Platforms that were the issue.
Can't remember a single instance of a mine showing up in TOS- as opposed to what amounted to space IEDs like the trick the Romulans used to nuke the Enterprise in Balance of Terror.

I think Oneiros looked at the balance of forces and concluded that mines were a necessary element of the defenses, rather than just beefing up the defensive firepower of stations, outposts, and starbases, or spamming such installations all over Gabriel Expanse/Licori space. I think they MAY be overpowered, but that may be an illusion.

Although I do think that if @OneirosTheWriter intends mines to continue to play such a major role in space combat in the game, then fairness demands that we get a chance to develop counter-mine technologies that help diminish the threat, just as we were able to start work on counter-cloaking technologies back at game start when it was expected that our likely opponents would be Romulans or maybe Klingons.
 
I suspect we get one shot at softening up. Which is why I think we need to go right for Iron Dome now and worry about Repose later, since we likely will have the strength to kick their ass when they arrive, so knowing the exact strength isn't as big a priority as it is reducing their advantages.
 
If we only get one shot at softening up Ixira system defenses before the Imperial fleet arrives in heavy force, then the correct strategy is to hit those defense stations, then retreat. We can do the whole thing over again in a month, before they have time to rebuild.

We can't actually destroy enough of the defenses to make attacking Ixira III a good idea if we have to worry about the bulk of the Licori fleet hitting us while we're doing it.

Me, I'm planning on the assumption that we get two or three waves of attacks (even if we don't get to vote on the targets). Which means concentrating on the targets that pose an existential threat to the fleet first, then start whittling the defenses down.

As a suggestion, also- if you think the Imperial fleet is going to show up at the end of our first round of attacks on the defense stations, wouldn't taking down Silent Repose be one of your highest priorities? Because while Silent Repose isn't much of a problem if it's only masking the approach of the handful of little ships that House Ixira personally controls in the system, it's a huge problem if it can mask the approach of a Combat 30, 40, or 50 imperial battlegroup.
 
I think SWB is setting us up for the third option by going after the homeworld only.
I'm not even voting for that though. We're supporting the same two-prong assault right now. I floated the idea, that's all.

As a suggestion, also- if you think the Imperial fleet is going to show up at the end of our first round of attacks on the defense stations, wouldn't taking down Silent Repose be one of your highest priorities? Because while Silent Repose isn't much of a problem if it's only masking the approach of the handful of little ships that House Ixira personally controls in the system, it's a huge problem if it can mask the approach of a Combat 30, 40, or 50 imperial battlegroup.

Keep a sensor ship outside the system - likely our Oberth or one of the KP's dozen auxiliaries - to detect the approach. It doesn't mask anything until they're in-system.
 
I'm not even voting for that though. We're supporting the same two-prong assault right now. I floated the idea, that's all.
You're right and I apologize.

Keep a sensor ship outside the system - likely our Oberth or one of the KP's dozen auxiliaries - to detect the approach. It doesn't mask anything until they're in-system.
That's a good idea, but I'm worried about House Ixira having some way to jam the communications of that hypothetical sensor picket, or otherwise interfere.

Basically, I'm prepared to accept leaving Silent Repose for later because I don't think the Imperial fleet can get here in less time than it will take us to do two rounds of defense-busting. If I thought they could do that, I would be voting to hit three targets, with Silent Repose being the third. Yes, it divides our forces more, but it doesn't actually expose them to more mines (arguably less). And it means we have much less risk of being surprised or defeated in detail IF Imperial reinforcements arrive that fast... which I don't think they can.
 
The Federation, Klingons, & Dominion prove you don't need a gigantic hole in the bloody ship to have LOS between Warp Nacelles.

In Universe, how did the Romulans go from this beauty




To this ugly bastard?


I actually prefer the D'deridex over the OG Warbirb. OG Birb is like a silly toy, the D'd is like some sort of mean and deceptively delicate-looking brawler. As far as it being hollow, it might be so that a cloaked vessel has more surface area to radiate ~particles~ or something like that.


[X] Ixaria Prime - Moon Only (Silo Storage Centre)
[X] Ixaria VI - "Silent Repose"
[X] Ixaria Star

Actually... why are we worried about drawing out the Imperial Fleet? Isn't that literally exactly what our objective with this war was? Should we be concentrating TF3 and additional forces (along with operating TF2 with the idea of concentrating and sprinting off at moment's notice) and lying in wait for the Imperial fleet to respond so that we can ambush them en route?

Like, if the Imperial fleet sorties we smash them and can continue to slowly take apart Ixaria at our leisure. If the Imperial Fleet smells a rat and doesn't respond then we can..... slowly take a part Ixaria at our leisure.

This is literally our plan from the outset of planning, why are we worried at all about the Imperial Fleet sortieing?
 
I actually prefer the D'deridex over the OG Warbirb. OG Birb is like a silly toy, the D'd is like some sort of mean and deceptively delicate-looking brawler. As far as it being hollow, it might be so that a cloaked vessel has more surface area to radiate ~particles~ or something like that.


[X] Ixaria Prime - Moon Only (Silo Storage Centre)
[X] Ixaria VI - "Silent Repose"
[X] Ixaria Star

Actually... why are we worried about drawing out the Imperial Fleet? Isn't that literally exactly what our objective with this war was? Should we be concentrating TF3 and additional forces (along with operating TF2 with the idea of concentrating and sprinting off at moment's notice) and lying in wait for the Imperial fleet to respond so that we can ambush them en route?

Like, if the Imperial fleet sorties we smash them and can continue to slowly take apart Ixaria at our leisure. If the Imperial Fleet smells a rat and doesn't respond then we can..... slowly take a part Ixaria at our leisure.

This is literally our plan from the outset of planning, why are we worried at all about the Imperial Fleet sortieing?

I agree, but we've been given no indication that our Admirals are planning this, and in fact Eaton seems to be concentrating on a different operation.
 
Actually... why are we worried about drawing out the Imperial Fleet? Isn't that literally exactly what our objective with this war was? Should we be concentrating TF3 and additional forces (along with operating TF2 with the idea of concentrating and sprinting off at moment's notice) and lying in wait for the Imperial fleet to respond so that we can ambush them en route?
I think because we weren't planning on the Ixira home system defenses having so many assets that buff the ships fighting there. We've never seen anything like that before, it's unprecedented. And it does a lot to make us reluctant to fight a pitched battle with their ships, because having enemy ships' shield penetration buffed, combat boosted, and shields doubled is an alarming prospect when the enemy ships in question are already explorer-sized things like the one that mauled the Hood before Enterprise chased her off.

We'd love to fight a pitched battle with the Licori fleet in deep space away from their stronger defense systems. But fighting one after our ships have been dragged lengthwise through a couple of giant thermonuclear minefields and smacked around by various interplanetary superweapons seems like less of a good idea.

Conversely, we can't spare a force to ambush a major Licori fleet while tackling the Ixira defenses, because they're so elaborate and interlocking. We have to hit a whole bunch of targets to neutralize the defenses, and each one involves smacking into a minefield, so we need to make sure each individual target gets hit pretty hard. Probably a big part of the reason the Ked Paddah have attacked the system seven times without taking it OR losing their whole fleet in the process is because they always realized they didn't have enough muscle to do more than scratch the surface. We do have that kind of muscle, but as long as T'Lorel and Nash are busy hitting Gammon instead of doubling down on Ixira, Thuir plus the Ked Paddah don't have the kind of muscle it'd take to beat down the Ixira defenses AND ambush an imperial fleet.

Honestly it might have been (or be) best to just delay the attack on Gammon, send T'Lorel to thwack Ixira along with Thuir and the Ked Paddah, while Nash raises hell around Korannon Kortennon space and finds some impressionable Licori noblewoman to charm into helping us.

[Spelling corrected 5/28/17]
 
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