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We have the chance right now.
That was written before the golden age of piracy was mentioned, nearly 20 years before. Given how these retrospectives work it's likely that with the emergence of the Orion's this has changed.
Of course, it's also possible that Starfleet realising how outclassed it was simply decided to keep it restricted to the safer interior.
Cargo Feddies can also fulfil a duty the Archer can only cludge together at the moment, refuelling. This is a capacity that will only be available thanks to the cargo bay, however, whereas the shuttle bay and its repair capabilities are far likelier to be more widely available, if not become standard at some point.
Strunkriidiisk
THE LEGEND
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I'm concerned that cargo-running - i.e. going into the coreward regions of Federation territory to pick up supplies from manufacturing centres, then out to the borders - is at cross purposes with patrol duties, which it feels like people were jonesing really hard for as a peacetime capability (Feds on the borders, Mirandas on internal/secondline duties, is what I seem to recall).
On the other hand, Mirandas are going for the expanded shuttlebay option. In the interest of diversifying Starfleet's options and not trying to directly compete with the most successful ship they ever built, I suppose I have no choice.
[X] Expanded Cargo Bay
On the other hand, Mirandas are going for the expanded shuttlebay option. In the interest of diversifying Starfleet's options and not trying to directly compete with the most successful ship they ever built, I suppose I have no choice.
[X] Expanded Cargo Bay
In as much as the aesthetics are a hideous hodgepodge, sure.
It does also offer up a capability that were probably never going to get the chance to do again this century (baring us accidentally making the next explorer Ambassador sized), meanwhile the expanded shuttlebay capability is something that can be done even on smaller ships (like the Miranda, as you noted), and will likely become standard over time.
...Sure.
Its a really desirable role, but is it one that Starfleet would be willing to shell out for in sufficient numbers to justify fulfilling that role?
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Oh man, this is a tough choice. To be honest, I was already surprised as to how few shuttles we had given the size of that shuttle bay. I assumed it was because it already had a significant amount of standard cargo space built in.
I think the larger cargo bay would make for a superior ship. There. I said it. It would be more useful in more roles. And despite that, I'm going to vote for shuttle bays. I'm with Wootius on this one. I think that the cargo bay would pull it away from where it should be, on the border.
I would go cargo bay if I felt confident enough that star fleet would make enough to do both roles.
Actually if anything I kind of wish they would swap two of the current shuttles for worker bees.
[X] Expanded Shuttlebay
I think the larger cargo bay would make for a superior ship. There. I said it. It would be more useful in more roles. And despite that, I'm going to vote for shuttle bays. I'm with Wootius on this one. I think that the cargo bay would pull it away from where it should be, on the border.
I would go cargo bay if I felt confident enough that star fleet would make enough to do both roles.
Actually if anything I kind of wish they would swap two of the current shuttles for worker bees.
[X] Expanded Shuttlebay
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
Eugh, indecision. On the one hand, the Federation being able to fulfill the same roles as the Miranda, but faster and in a harder target, means that while it's technically competing for the standard cruiser slot, they're also complementary between interior and frontier, so actually seeing them built to their cost ratio is more likely. On the other hand, fast and protected bulk transport from logistical hubs to frontier spokes also is a really useful capability to have in the fleet's toolkit.
The founding world was not taken because we had the strategic depth to force them into a decisive battle rather than a more drawn-out campaign they would've won. Coincidentally, better logistics improves our strategic depth.After a founding member world was almost taken?
I do like how both of you conveniently did not quote my other post.
And your other post seems to mostly be about how shuttles will make it a better patrol boat, which is probably true, but we disagree on whether or not that's a good thing.
Emergency repair is also very useful, but the problem with all these emergency scenarios that the shuttles help with is the radiant problem, where we actually need enough of these to matter. Which I'm not sure we'll get if we're just a really good patrol ship that can respond to random problems border colonies have.
[X] Expanded Cargo Bay
The retrospective mentions the aftermath of the 4-year war and beyond. There has not been a timeline shift since then.
There are however still outer colonies that need defending against a resurgence of piracy and an entirely new second neutral zone to patrol.
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You make good point there.
It was also written two months before the actual war ending post, though we should probably ask Sayle if there's been much of a change since then.
Which it can still do? A cargo capacity doesn't preclude the latter two, in fact, with the mention of being able to haul finished infrastructure it might be able to help in those roles - assembled swarms of defence satellites to protect our worlds (making them a far harder target for your garden variety criminal, and even more dedicated ones) as well as monitoring equipment and the like for the Klingon neutral zone.
I think this is the most recent details about the piracy that will be going on post war. Which sounds like it isn't just independent groups but also includes raiding by the nearby polities. Which is at the point where the Archers start to drop off of I recall their capabilities correctly.
But regardless a true Archer replacement is going to be a long way out given that the Attenborough's were first put on anti pirate patrols instead of their intended scientific duties.
Until Star Fleet gets the piracy under control (and even then there would still be the border areas), there will be a need for a ship that has high cargo capacity but can still fight off any attempts at piracy. Plus there is the difference in warp ratings between the Federation and Archers to take into account as well as a needed niche in star fleets ships.
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It won't, not this century. Meanwhile the Miranda, by virtue of more being able to be made, is a better choice for the extra shuttles (which the Feddie would only equal, not surpass) as they're still tied quite closely to the ship and aren't too independent.
[X] Expanded Cargo Bay
And the Miranda is much slower, making it less able to respond to emergency calls. Miranda will be a better fleet tender, just because of how many there are when they're concentrated.
However, as everybody loved to point out in the proceeding votes for this ship we are on a new age of solo and small task forces. Having repair on hand in your solo or or the ship most likely to survive with less damage in your small task force group able to repair and assist the others sounds good to me.
However, as everybody loved to point out in the proceeding votes for this ship we are on a new age of solo and small task forces. Having repair on hand in your solo or or the ship most likely to survive with less damage in your small task force group able to repair and assist the others sounds good to me.
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[X] Expanded Shuttlebay
darkstarling
Brilliantly Crazed
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So on the synergy issue, which this design will live or die on.
Both Cargo and Shuttlebays synergize in different ways with the core mission of the Federation class, though in my opinion Shuttlebay goes better. But there's genuine debate there - it's not like there isn't a genuine need for cargo, even if the Federation shouldn't be that ship.
The thing is, having expanded shuttles and workerbees has more potential to synergize with future modules. If we choose cargo that's just it, a solid choice but it won't add to anything else we put in this ship.
I'd agree with that.
Cargo isn't various capabilities, it's A capability. A valuable one, but singular. Shuttles and workerbees have a million uses and will help us utilize our other modules better.
That's where I am too. We do need cargo capacity, but giving this ship - designed for emergency response - extra cargo capacity misses what it's really good at.
This is the only good argument I can see for the cargo over the shuttles, effectively making this into a treasure ship. Where the true treasure is the infrastructure we carried along the way.
Agree with this too. What I want is an emergency response Federation that had a triage deck to go with the shuttles at a bare minimum.
If we wind up stuck with cargo - not a BAD choice I admit - then I'm stumped for what synergizes well with dropping off infrastructure. Which is kind of my point earlier about why I want to pick shuttles - it's just really hard to synergize with cargo you know?
Alas I must argue against my own choice, inasmuch as Orion pirates are actually very heavily armed and very fast. Doubtless some downtime equivalent of the Emerald Chain exists that can muster a significant starforce. Make a statement to Starfleet that they can't afford this fight now. The answer to that statement could, in fact, be the Federation.
Thing is, the Federation will be the answer to that statement anyway. The Federation secures whole sectors just by being there ready to respond.
Both Cargo and Shuttlebays synergize in different ways with the core mission of the Federation class, though in my opinion Shuttlebay goes better. But there's genuine debate there - it's not like there isn't a genuine need for cargo, even if the Federation shouldn't be that ship.
The thing is, having expanded shuttles and workerbees has more potential to synergize with future modules. If we choose cargo that's just it, a solid choice but it won't add to anything else we put in this ship.
I'd agree with that.
Cargo isn't various capabilities, it's A capability. A valuable one, but singular. Shuttles and workerbees have a million uses and will help us utilize our other modules better.
That's where I am too. We do need cargo capacity, but giving this ship - designed for emergency response - extra cargo capacity misses what it's really good at.
This is the only good argument I can see for the cargo over the shuttles, effectively making this into a treasure ship. Where the true treasure is the infrastructure we carried along the way.
Agree with this too. What I want is an emergency response Federation that had a triage deck to go with the shuttles at a bare minimum.
If we wind up stuck with cargo - not a BAD choice I admit - then I'm stumped for what synergizes well with dropping off infrastructure. Which is kind of my point earlier about why I want to pick shuttles - it's just really hard to synergize with cargo you know?
Alas I must argue against my own choice, inasmuch as Orion pirates are actually very heavily armed and very fast. Doubtless some downtime equivalent of the Emerald Chain exists that can muster a significant starforce. Make a statement to Starfleet that they can't afford this fight now. The answer to that statement could, in fact, be the Federation.
Thing is, the Federation will be the answer to that statement anyway. The Federation secures whole sectors just by being there ready to respond.