We have the chance right now....I know what they are. Do we have any guarantee that we're going to receive a prompt for one any time soon?
That was written before the golden age of piracy was mentioned, nearly 20 years before. Given how these retrospectives work it's likely that with the emergence of the Orion's this has changed.That's not born out by the Archer's retrospective at all. It didn't seem to suffer any problems against piracy, but raiding during open war. That's why it'd be nicer to put the repair on the Feddie so we might use fewer Archers on post battle carrion duty so they can stay further away from the front lines.
In as much as the aesthetics are a hideous hodgepodge, sure.I can see it fitting in with the design as far as aesthetics are concerned.
It does also offer up a capability that were probably never going to get the chance to do again this century (baring us accidentally making the next explorer Ambassador sized), meanwhile the expanded shuttlebay capability is something that can be done even on smaller ships (like the Miranda, as you noted), and will likely become standard over time.On the other hand, Mirandas are going for the expanded shuttlebay option. In the interest of diversifying Starfleet's options and not trying to directly compete with the most successful ship they ever built, I suppose I have no choice.
...Sure.
Its a really desirable role, but is it one that Starfleet would be willing to shell out for in sufficient numbers to justify fulfilling that role?I'm concerned that cargo-running - i.e. going into the coreward regions of Federation territory to pick up supplies from manufacturing centres, then out to the borders - is at cross purposes with patrol duties, which it feels like people were jonesing really hard for as a peacetime capability (Feds on the borders, Mirandas on internal/secondline duties, is what I seem to recall).
The founding world was not taken because we had the strategic depth to force them into a decisive battle rather than a more drawn-out campaign they would've won. Coincidentally, better logistics improves our strategic depth.After a founding member world was almost taken?
I do like how both of you conveniently did not quote my other post.
Emergency repair is also very useful, but the problem with all these emergency scenarios that the shuttles help with is the radiant problem, where we actually need enough of these to matter. Which I'm not sure we'll get if we're just a really good patrol ship that can respond to random problems border colonies have.That's not born out by the Archer's retrospective at all. It didn't seem to suffer any problems against piracy, but raiding during open war. That's why it'd be nicer to put the repair on the Feddie so we might use fewer Archers on post battle carrion duty so they can stay further away from the front lines.
That was written before the golden age of piracy was mentioned, nearly 20 years before. Given how these retrospectives work it's likely that with the emergence of the Orion's this has changed.
Of course, it's also possible that Starfleet realising how outclassed it was simply decided to keep it restricted to the safer interior.
Cargo Feddies can also fulfil a duty the Archer can only cludge together at the moment, refuelling. This is a capacity that will only be available thanks to the cargo bay, however, whereas the shuttle bay and its repair capabilities are far likelier to be more widely available, if not become standard at some point.
You make good point there.I'm with Wootius on this one. I think that the cargo bay would pull it away from where it should be, on the border.
It was also written two months before the actual war ending post, though we should probably ask Sayle if there's been much of a change since then.The retrospective mentions the aftermath of the 4-year war and beyond. There has not been a timeline shift since then.
There are however still outer colonies that need defending against a resurgence of piracy and an entirely new second neutral zone to patrol.
While the core worlds and earlier members were indeed bound together by webs of trade that sustained the majority of Federal industry, this quickly fell by the wayside as one travelled further from the central bubble. Colonies on the far periphery were isolated and practically self-sufficient, and the latest member worlds were often connected by singular trade and logistic routes to the Federation interior. Pharos and K-series stations supported Starfleet deployments even within the borders, acting as required refuelling and resupply stops for a fleet that was too slow and too thinly spread to truly control the vast area that was now occupied by dozens of small settlements. Not for nothing was the 23rd century considered the Golden Age of Orion Piracy, where criminal extortion was common and sometimes the orbits were contested not by criminals and Starfleet but criminals and other criminals.
After the war the surviving Excalibur-class ships faced an uncertain future. Lacking the facilities to participate in the rebuilding efforts they were assigned to suppressing the surge in piracy caused by the depletion of Starfleet's patrol roster and flying the flag near contested borders with the Tholian Assembly and Gorn Hegemony. They finally entered their second stage of life in the 2250s when a recovered Starfleet turned its attention back to beyond its borders. The Pathfinder Missions were designed to use the Excalibur's range and speed to chart over a hundred light years beyond the boundaries of Federation space.
I think this is the most recent details about the piracy that will be going on post war. Which sounds like it isn't just independent groups but also includes raiding by the nearby polities. Which is at the point where the Archers start to drop off of I recall their capabilities correctly.The UFS Attenborough launched from drydock in 2244 to much applause and public interest thanks to its novel capabilities, but circumstances conspired such that it did not take up scientific duties for some time. The depletion of Starfleet by the Four Years War instead saw the ship taking up duty as a patrol and anti-piracy vessel in the vicinity of the Orion Stars while the rest of the fleet finished repairs and redeployments after the cessation of hostilities. It proved itself militarily capable in its own right with the destruction of an Orion raider in late 2245, when the Attenborough lured the ship in by concealing its true capabilities with single-torpedo salvoes until the raider approached to close range, accruing in the process the only prestigious honour accrued to the class in its service history - exempting the Ad Astra Memorial Medal issued to the crew of the Humboldt after its disappearance with all hands in 2284.
It won't, not this century. Meanwhile the Miranda, by virtue of more being able to be made, is a better choice for the extra shuttles (which the Feddie would only equal, not surpass) as they're still tied quite closely to the ship and aren't too independent.[X] Expanded Shuttlebay
The other option should get it's own dedicated ship.
Shuttlebays should help to get the depth of capability starfleet asked for
cargo seems to go in the direction of various capabilities, and not in depth
Shuttlebays ad breadth of capability more than depth. Shuttles do a lot of things pretty well. We would need to augment them with facilities to add depth.
I'm seeing a lot of good arguments for why starfleet needs new/more/better cargo ships. The arguments for using the Federation class in that role are Very weak.
Mind you, the arguments in favour of shuttles aren't much better and the arguments against aren't completely without merit...
Yeah but we dont have one right now, nor do we have an ETA and when we'll be commissioned to make a replacement for the Archer. This entire ship is about covering what the Federation doesn't have right now...
In the Second Golden Age of Piracy
We might want to start planning out what kind of synergies we're going for. If Shuttles win, we'll want to build this machine for emergency response, survey, etc.
If cargo wins, we'll want this ship built for logistical support and other stuff, like holding spare parts, chemical feedstocks, etc.
In any case, I'm satisfied with the choices we've made thus far. Fat Feddie is a wonderful murder machine and will make the Klingons and Romulans very very concerned in the near future.
In this second golden age, an Archer (let alone a civilian contractor) would be as vulnerable as a Spanish treasure ship going up against a steam powered frigate.
The cargo option for the Feddie will allow Starfleet to keep its cargo unmolested by all but the boldest of pirate armadas, which will likely go a long way into beating them.