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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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JayTar said:
Wasn't full library access mentioned as a possible reward from the full waystone project.
I might be misremembering. But if I'm not, that would make this a very high tier reward.
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I feel like there's probably a statement along those lines somewhere but I wouldn't know where to begin looking for it.

If someone can find that, it might make the discussion calmer in a sense. If finishing the full Project can get us in Laurelorn's good books enough that they'd be willing to let us copy their restricted books sans certain stuff, then it might just give us more access to their markets anyway, and the current vote becomes more a question of which thing we want to do first, with the complicating factor that we don't know just how much we might get from them.

Perhaps Trade Goods really is better right now, while the EIC would have first mover advantages, and it may be better to copy the Library later with KAU. Maybe.
 
[X] [ITHILMAR] A copy of the Library of Mournings, including most restricted texts.
[X] [ITHILMAR] Books
[X] [ITHILMAR] Books, primarily restricted books on magic with everything else secondary.

[X] Initiate
[X] Dooming and Quickening
[X] Entrance Examination
[X] Druchii Diplomats
[X] Witch Hunter
 
JayTar said:
Wasn't full library access mentioned as a possible reward from the full waystone project.
I might be misremembering. But if I'm not, that would make this a very high tier reward.
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I think you may be remembering how access to the library was a perk to hosting the waystone project here. I don't think any reward for a "full" project was ever mentioned. It's not as if any of the backers actually expected us to produce more than tributaries, after all.

Closest thing to a payout is just what polities who weren't in on the ground floor pay us for inclusion or the products of it.
 
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JayTar said:
[X] [ITHILMAR] A copy of the Library of Mournings, including most restricted texts.
[X] [ITHILMAR] Books
[X] [ITHILMAR] Books, primarily restricted books on magic with everything else secondary.

Wasn't full library access mentioned as a possible reward from the full waystone project.
I might be misremembering. But if I'm not, that would make this a very high tier reward.
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Mathilde would have personal access to the library for anything the Project needed. This did not include the right to copy anything. And required some form of recognized need for anything that could be considered militarily applicable.
 
Talon TigerDino said:
Mathilde would have personal access to the library for anything the Project needed. This did not include the right to copy anything. And required some form of recognized need for anything that could be considered militarily applicable.
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To be fair, we are able to purchase non-sensitive, non-project-relevant books from them piecemeal (and have), but otherwise correct.

That said piecemeal book purchases are the most expensive book purchase option in turn votes should also say something about how wild it is we have the option to just get the whole collection here and now.
 
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Parabola said:
I feel like there's probably a statement along those lines somewhere but I wouldn't know where to begin looking for it.

If someone can find that, it might make the discussion calmer in a sense. If finishing the full Project can get us in Laurelorn's good books enough that they'd be willing to let us copy their restricted books sans certain stuff, then it might just give us more access to their markets anyway, and the current vote becomes more a question of which thing we want to do first, with the complicating factor that we don't know just how much we might get from them.

Perhaps Trade Goods really is better right now, while the EIC would have first mover advantages, and it may be better to copy the Library later with KAU. Maybe.
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I believe it's an extrapolation from the below quote:
Boney said:
Laurelorn will start making juicier parts of the Library of Mournings available once the Project actually gets going.
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Where we didn't have more than cursory access before we'd started the project, and now we're in a state where we have limited access to magical topics relevant to the Project now that we've demonstrated that we're working on it, and once we finish up our deliverables we can probably arrange some sort of book deal with our own not inconsiderable trove of lore as a result of having a good working relationship, trust/a proven track record, and our own things to barter with.
 
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ReImagined said:
and once we finish up our deliverables we can probably arrange some sort of book deal with our own not inconsiderable trove of lore.
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...I'm not so sure that's going to be the case. We already finished a waystone and tested it, and mass production isn't going to be mathilde's business but mostly laurelorn's.

So, waystone project deliverables should already priced in to the deal on the table right now - and boney specified that the sensitive topics are available specifically because we're trading a military resource for it anyways. We shouldn't expect the waystone project to get us a better or even an equivalent deal later.

As if often the case in divided loyalties, if you want the thing, vote for the thing. Want books, vote books.
 
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Yeah, I have to go BOOKS then. It's just that big. Getting the (almost) whole Library of Mournings copied by the Eonir themselves thus freeing our Library free purchase for other sources is great.

We'll might even have to arrange Eldarin courses for our scribes just because of how significant a part of our library it would constitute. I wouldn't be surprised if universities ended up setting up branches in K8P just to work with the books there at this point. Especially considering how the new canal makes travel to K8P much easier.

[X] [ITHILMAR] A copy of the Library of Mournings, including most restricted texts.

[X] Druchii Diplomats
[X] The Festival Lord
[X] Entrance Examination
[X] Dooming and Quickening
[X] Sarvoi
 
Prime 2.0 said:
I think you may be remembering how access to the library was a perk to hosting the waystone project here. I don't think any reward for a "full" project was ever mentioned. It's not as if any of the backers actually expected us to produce more than tributaries, after all.

Closest thing to a payout is just what polities who weren't in on the ground floor pay us for inclusion or the products of it.
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Talon TigerDino said:
Mathilde would have personal access to the library for anything the Project needed. This did not include the right to copy anything. And required some form of recognized need for anything that could be considered militarily applicable.
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No this was definitely distinct from that. It was in the context of expanding our already existing access to the library.
 
Prime 2.0 said:
...I'm not so sure that's going to be the case. We already finished a waystone and tested it, and mass production isn't going to be mathilde's business but mostly laurelorn's.

So, waystone project deliverables should already priced in to the deal on the table right now. We're not getting a better one later.
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Yeah, I do think we're very close, and that's part of why this is an option at all. That said, deliverables have to be, well, for lack of a better term, delivered. It's all well and good to have a working prototype, but until it's shown that our model can actually be spread across the continent, by being actually spread across the continent, it's not delivered. I don't think we don't get full credit until we've demonstrated that.

I don't doubt that this would be a good deal, but I'm skeptical that the Ithilmar deal is the one and only time we'll be able to offer up something that they'd trade the good books for, as people have argued. It might take more effort or carry a higher price tag, but I just don't buy the reasoning that this is a one-time exclusive opportunity that we'll never be able to try to get access to again.
 
Well the book arguments are good enough for me to vote for it.
[X] [ITHILMAR] A copy of the Library of Mournings, including most restricted texts.

Then there's the most important vote of all. To finally learn the outcome of the Skull River investigation.
[X] Skull River Ambush

Actually there's a whole bunch of unknowns that I don't think we have follow up on. What happened to those Iron Orcs in Brettonia, did the locals deal with them? Did the last vampire holdouts in Sylvania finally get killed? What's happening with the spidersilk in K8P? What's going on with those salamanders? Will we ever get around to looking at that stolen shrine?

It's no surprise Mathilde is such a powerful grey wizard when she's surrounded with so many unanswered questions.
 
I see it less from the perspective of "We might be able to get the books later" and more "If we get the books now, we won't have to worry about missing out on the books when there is some other important or valuable pick".

"Crate of ithilmar => books" seems like a really great trade up, but "Credit from the waystone project => books" is underwhelming. Because I can't imagine we won't have a bunch of other things we will want then.

Assuming I am remembering correctly at least.
 
ReImagined said:
I don't doubt that this would be a good deal, but I'm skeptical that the Ithilmar deal is the one and only time we'll be able to offer up something that they'd trade the good books for, as people have argued. It might take more effort or carry a higher price tag, but I just don't buy the reasoning that this is a one-time exclusive opportunity that we'll never be able to try to get access to again.
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So - the thing about that is, Laurelorn already got what they wanted out of the waystone project via those tributaries, we're already doing extra. Even then, it's worth noting that they've already been the primary polity footing the bill for the R&D.

There also just isn't a good reason to expect that mathilde weber in particular will get a new reward on the scale of the restricted section of the library (and every other part of the library) for the waystone project itself. We brought everyone together, but it doesn't belong to us. Our reward is waystones for the empire, and a slice of the profit from selling waystones to other countries.

You're right that it's not impossible for there to be a future opportunity to acquire a copy of the library. However, it's far from guaranteed either, and we don't really have anything in mind for what we could do to earn the option again. The Ithilmar trade is a one-time thing, after all, and the military secrets are explicitly not something money itself will buy.

The situation remains: if we want the books, vote for the books.
 
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WorldSlayer said:
Actually there's a whole bunch of unknowns that I don't think we have follow up on. What happened to those Iron Orcs in Brettonia, did the locals deal with them? Did the last vampire holdouts in Sylvania finally get killed? What's happening with the spidersilk in K8P? What's going on with those salamanders? Will we ever get around to looking at that stolen shrine?
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Boney's said we can still do the Iron Orcs thing as part of the action to recruit the Damsels into the Project; I don't imagine they've been dealt with yet.

I think most of the visible vampires of Sylvania have been cleared out, but there's probably still a handful of holdouts that are not worth taking out. But I'd definitely assume the older, actually smart vampires went to ground when the Battle Wizards arrived. It's still in dire need of waystones, but we can safely say it's safer than it's been in a long, long time.

Spidersilk is still a work in progress but it's close enough to release that it's been teased at.

We can still check on the Salamanders if we all start clapping our hands and believing really hard (and dropping our votes for the Amber College on socials).

The stolen shrine remains a possible artefact to study, (maybe with Egrimm?).
 
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[X] [ITHILMAR] A copy of the Library of Mournings, including most restricted texts.
[X] [ITHILMAR] Books
[X] [ITHILMAR] Books, primarily restricted books on magic with everything else secondary.

[X] Initiate
[X] Entrance Examination
[X] Dooming and Quickening
[X] Reading on Nehekhara
[X] Sarvoi
 
I wonder how much we just strenghtened Laurelorn militarily for them to be willing to pay so much for it. Those fragments once retrofitted and enchanted by top Eonir enchanters will be a menace amongst their enemies.

I guess we also strengthened the Queen's position since she seems to be in a position to dole out the restored artefacts to reward and gain allies.
 
Sparsebeard said:
I wonder how much we just strenghtened Laurelorn militarily for them to be willing to pay so much for it. Those fragments once retrofitted and enchanted by top Eonir enchanters will be a menace amongst their enemies.

I guess we also strengthened the Queen's position since she seems to be in a position to dole out the restored artefacts to reward and gain allies.
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Ilthimar is thier biggest protection for thier casters since you can cast magic in Ilthimar. Mathilde just put some of their best magic users in the best metal elves can get. And probably helped repaired some artifacts form the golden age
 
My original thinking was that Mathilde already had an adequate sufficiency of books. But the discussion convinced me that this is a super-special never-to-be-repeated limited-time offer of ultra-rare knowledge that is otherwise literally unobtainable.

By the way, why are there so many votes for The Festival Lord? Is it just to keep up-to-date with internal Laurelon politics, or is there some other reason I'm missing that makes it a particularly enticing option?

[X] [ITHILMAR] A copy of the Library of Mournings, including most restricted texts.
[X] [ITHILMAR] Books, primarily restricted books on magic with everything else secondary.
[X] Dooming and Quickening
[X] Entrance Examination
[X] Initiate
[X] Sarvoi
[X] Middenland
 
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