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Starfleet Design Bureau

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On the idea of reusing the Sagarmatha's saucer section, here's where we reused the Excelsior's saucer section in the previous quest. It was for the Renaissance-class, the very first ship we designed, so it happened quite a while ago.
Sayle said:
You have two choices: the first is to tap into the ready supply and manufacturing of the Excelsior-class. The internal systems are well understood and economies of scale will substantially decrease both cost and complexity. It also has a powerful impulse engine attached, which is one less thing to manage later down the line. The disadvantage is that much of the Excelsior's scientific payloads and cargo spaces are outside the saucer section, which will need to be accounted for in the Centaur's bespoke secondary hull.

The second option is to build a new saucer section from scratch. While using many of the same components as the Excelsior it will nonetheless require some new manufacturing to be spun up to accommodate its unique requirements. This would make it easier to integrate new technology, but it has the risk of introducing unforeseen problems into the ship in the Prototyping Phase, solutions to which may involve making the ship more difficult to maintain or expensive to produce.

[ ] Excelsior Saucer Section (Ease of Manufacture: A)
[ ] Bespoke Saucer Section (Ease of Manufacture: C-B)
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Sayle said:
Deciding to use the Excelsior saucer section has its advantages, not least of which is the powerful impulse thrusters attached to the assembly. Given the Centaur is likely to mass less than half that of the Excelsior, those engines will provide stellar maneuverability at impulse. It will make putting any non-Excelsior technology into the saucer section a bit of a hassle, given that everything from the power distribution system to the size of the rooms has already been optimised, but it certainly won't be an impossible obstacle given enough enthusiasm and caution. You may end up eating your words later, of course, but you're confident that even the worse case scenario there won't torpedo the whole design.
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Given the need/possibility of making some pretty major repairs* it's likely that at least one yard has been kept on producing (or with the theoretical ability to produce) full on Sagarmatha saucers, or at least significant enough sections of the saucer its easy enough to spin it up to full on production again.

*They are our dedicated long range/top of the line explorers, the chance of them getting fucked up outside of a war is considerably higher than with just about any other ship we've got. And even if that doesn't happen to most of thrm, they're going to undergo far more ware than most ships. Hence the need for a comprehensive supply of replacement parts, from internal components to the hull itself.
 
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Tank man said:
Given the need/possibility of making some pretty major repairs* it's likely that at least one yard has been kept on producing (or with the theoretical ability to produce) full on Sagarmatha saucers, or at least significant enough sections of the saucer its easy enough to spin it up to full on production again.

*They are our dedicated long range/top of the line explorers, the chance of them getting fucked up outside of a war is considerably higher than with just about any other ship we've got.
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Their chance of getting fucked up inside a war if one does occur is also high enough to keep a shipyard capable of repairing them on standby worth it. They were our front line against the Kzinti alongside the Selachii
 
[X] Duratanium-Enhanced Hull Plating [Theoretical] (Three Success Rolls: Cost -> Defense -> Implementation)
[X] Medium Saucer (140 Meters)
 
[X] Small Saucer (100 Meters)

[X] Duratanium-Enhanced Hull Plating [Theoretical] (Three Success Rolls: Cost -> Defense -> Implementation)

I won't settle for committing every crime known to both god and man - we must invent new ones!
 
[X] Small Saucer (100 Meters)
[X] Electro-Ceramic Plating (Duratanium: Theoretical -> Experimental, Cost Finalized)

I like the idea that delaying stuff like this makes it easier to implement later, and we really don't need fancy new plating on what will be a Science Cruiser. As far as I can tell, it being a cruiser and decently armed is enough for it to have enough staying power and teeth for me.

Besides: The plating screams to me something we might save up for on a big project. Like a Dreadnought(Eyes the Klingons) or an Explorer.
 
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Saucer size trade offs come in two forms.

1) This is a simple matter of geometry. The saucer section has a large surface area to volume ratio. Weapons need to be on the surface of the ship (otherwise they have to shoot through the ship). So larger saucer sections tend to have more weapon slots. On the other hand, all of that surface area has to be armored and shielded , which eats up your mass and power budgets, meaning fewer utility (science in this case) slots for the same "size".

Secondary hulls are roughly shaped like a cylinder. This has a much lower surface area to volume ratio than a saucer shape. (Not as good as a sphere, but much better than a saucer.) So the advantages are flipped. It needs less armor for the same volume so has more room/mass/power for science slots.

2) Traditionally, the deflector needs a huge amount of both surface area and volume at the front of the ship. If the saucer section is too large to allow a secondary hull, the deflector has to go into the saucer. This further reduces the already limited volume of the saucer. Worse, it has to go in the center, right where you want to put torpedoes.

Not word of Sayle, just the patterns I've observed .
 
[X] Medium Saucer (140 Meters)
[X] Electro-Ceramic Plating (Duratanium: Theoretical -> Experimental, Cost Finalized)

I am nothing if not sensible.
 
Adhoc vote count started by Potato Anarchy on Feb 16, 2024 at 10:23 AM, finished with 163 posts and 84 votes.
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Medium Saucer has a narrow lead.
 
Sayle said:
Don't see why not.



Two secondary hulls, not two saucers. But you can't switch back to something. It's a choice, and choices have to have meaning.


All rolls are final. A 'bad' result is 50% less of an improvement, a 'good' result is 50% more of an improvement. I reserve the right to change the numbers before they're implemented, obviously. At the low numbers here 50% more is the difference between 3/4 or 6/8.
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What does the progression longer term look like? If we roll a fail will the flaw be fixed in the future and if we don't roll a success will whatever potential innovation there was be discovered eventually?
 
You know... I think an arrow configuration secondary hull would actually be pretty useful. The arrow configuration adds utility in that it has more thruster locations. An arrow shaped secondary hull would add those thruster locations on top of the thruster locations normally on a saucer section.
 
I'll vote weird configuration so we can go traditional on the explorer.

[X] Small Saucer (100 Meters)
 
[X] Small Saucer (100 Meters)

[X] Electro-Ceramic Plating (Duratanium: Theoretical -> Experimental, Cost Finalized)

This is either going to look great or absolutely atrocious...
 
We should build a medium saucer with an offset secondary hull and 4 nacelles. Let's add on some cargo space, secondary computer, engineering, and like 3 science labs.

We can give it 100% coverage and like 3 photon torpedo tubes.

We can call it the Chomolungma class.
 
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[X] Duratanium-Enhanced Hull Plating [Theoretical] (Three Success Rolls: Cost -> Defense -> Implementation)
[X] Small Saucer (100 Meters)
 
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On the topic of phasers, there are several configurations that we could do for this class.
Phaser locations are given as clockwise degrees from direct forward, with top and bottom locations being identical.
With 6 phasers (3 on top, 3 on bottom)
- 1 Phaser at 45°, at 180°, and at 315° = 45° foward arc where two phasers can fire, 315° arc where 1 phaser can fire. 100% coverage
- 2 Phasers at 0°, 1 phaser at 180° = 135° forward arc where 2 phasers can fire, 135° rear arc where 1 phaser can fire, 45° arc to left and right with no coverage. 75% coverage
With 4 Phasers (2 on top, 2 on bottom)
- 2 phasers at 0° = 135° forward arc where 2 phasers can fire, 225° arc with no coverage. 37.5% coverage
- 1 phaser at 67.5° and at 292.5° = 270° forward arc where 1 phaser can fire, 90° arc with no coverage. 75% coverage
 
Using a common size of saucer section could also serve to greatly simplify repair/docking concerns, they'll be able to make use of the same drydocks a Sagarmatha. Another benefit of that will be it'll also encourage the construction of more docks of that beam (beam being much harder to increase than simple length).

A Constitution-class has a beam of 127.1m, assuming Sayle isn't going for the DIS resizing (which iirc SNW itself seems to have abandoned), and the refit Constitution-class has a beam of about 140m. This means that we'll be able to field more ships of that size/capability class earlier than in the prime timeline/canon.
 
[X] Small Saucer (100 Meters)
[X] Duratanium-Enhanced Hull Plating [Theoretical] (Three Success Rolls: Cost -> Defense -> Implementation)

I really want to see what two secondary Hulls looks like! A dedicated engineering secondary hull and a dedicated science hull perhaps.
 
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