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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Mopman43 said:
The magics of the Mortuary Cult were a rather important part of the 'shoulders of giants' that Nagash stood on. They'd already managed a form of immortality, Nagash used that to go further.
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I understand that. What I don't understand is the follow up claim of: "therefore those who constitute the giant are responsible and bear blame for what their descendant did with their knowledge".
 
What I do wonder is whether the "Dark Imperium" plotline would have had a WHF counterpart, where the Empire was split not by a big warp rift but by a religious schism led by Luthor Huss.

The timelines kinda add up assuming that both franchises continued.
 
[X] Plan Ithilmar, Enchantment and Exploration Language Edition
[X] Plan Ithilmar, Enchantment and Exploration Vlag Edition

I'm not sure where the Ghyran nut option came from, and I don't have time to read 10+ pages of discussion to find out. I'll stick with the options I'm familiar with from the discussion I did read because the Lizardmen papers and Auditory Serviscope seem like they'd be really useful.
 
Honestly presenting the End Times as inevitable feels like the worst way they could take the whole thing.

If instead they had it be a war that could have been won but wasn't- because the forces of order spent far too much time and energy squabbling among themselves, perhaps- that's a lot more compelling and leaves a vein of genuine tragedy in it. Instead they're saying that everything since the destruction of Praag (Which, to my understanding, is the vast majority of all content that's ever been made for WHF) was pointless.
 
Mount. Elements said:
I'm not sure where the Ghyran nut option came from, and I don't have time to read 10+ pages of discussion to find out. I'll stick with the options I'm familiar with from the discussion I did read because the Lizardmen papers and Auditory Serviscope seem like they'd be really useful.
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The Ghyran Nut is something we bought from Chaos Vegas during the Expedition to Karag Dum. Ever since then, there's been a faction that wants to research it with Panoramia. I, for the record, am one of them, and if we don't do it this turn I will be pushing hard to do it next turn, before leaving for the Elfternship (this is, in fact, one of the deciding factors that causes me to slightly favor DragonParadox's plans: I think I like the narrative of having a Panoramia action right before we leave more than I like having it six months before we leave).

I don't think anyone expects big practical value to come from it, but it's another paper to coauthor with her, and it has the added benefit, now that she has an Apprentice of her own, of giving Eike a "peer" to interact with during that action. I'm not a fan of it because I think it's useful, I'm a fan of it because I like the character beat and think it'll be fun to read.
 
Mount. Elements said:
I'm not sure where the Ghyran nut option came from, and I don't have time to read 10+ pages of discussion to find out. I'll stick with the options I'm familiar with from the discussion I did read because the Lizardmen papers and Auditory Serviscope seem like they'd be really useful.
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There's not really much to read. It's "This is an action we've been waiting on for a while. We have some free AP; why not now?". Scope is the same "Free AP, why not now?" only without the long lead-time.

The major differences between the two plans are:
  • Arcane Mark Mastery vs Eonir Diplomacy
  • Research the Nut vs Research the Scope
  • Eike sees our "Bureaucrat" trait in action (w/ relevant study) vs Eike sees our "Enchanter" trait in action (w/ relevant study)
The paper-writing is a difference, but doing it now vs next turn is a matter of a couple of CF in getting them "Fresh", which is negligible and arguably offset by the additional expense in hiring a Magister for the scope action.
 
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Andres said:
Sorry to those that thought the waystone project might have some sort of lasting impact of the world, but we just got confirmation that the world is doomed and nothing can change its fate.

Also the Empire is the Imperium of Man.
<https://www.warhammer-community.com...nd-table-on-how-the-new-old-lore-was-written/>
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I feel its a worrying sigh they are mapping the empire to the Imperium of man, the only thing they have in common is both are human. The skaven map much better to the Imperium than the empire does.
 
Boney said:
Not to pick on you specifically, but this sentiment in general that I've seen a fair few times recently is... not wrong, but incomplete. Another way to see the exact same events is the Ice Witches having been forced to show how far they've fallen by being unable to scrape up a single Ice Witch that is both seasoned and literate, and when they chose literate, they ended up feeding the poor girl into the jaws of an ancient ancestral enemy, giving a monster that spent centuries dunking on the Gospodars a chance to do it repeatedly in front of the collected magical traditions of the continent. A grand opportunity for prestige and peacocking has withered on the vine.
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in this context, the big winner of the peacocking games where the hedgewise.

ya, the elf and dwarfs did well, but everyone as expecting that, it's not a shock that The New York Yankees and Manchester United did well.

But the Milwaukee Brewers (hedgewise) just got to strut their stuff in a way no one in the magical community (except maybe the greys and some ice witches) could have expected.

its going to be hard to not recognise them as a legitimate magic system in their own right new instead of dismissing them as just a collection of petty casters who 'don't know how to do it properly '
 
Man, I step away from the thread for a day and I come back to over twenty pages of discussion to catch up on.

Thanks to @picklepikkl for taking on the unenviable role of vote herder*, I think the plans I want to support are:

[x] Plan Ithilmar, Enchantment and Exploration Language Edition
[x] Plan Ithilmar, Enchantment and Exploration Vlag Edition

*Probably harder than herding cats
 
Jyn Ryvia said:
But the Milwaukee Brewers (hedgewise) just got to strut their stuff in a way no one in the magical community (except maybe the greys and some ice witches) could have expected.

its going to be hard to not recognise them as a legitimate magic system in their own right new instead of dismissing them as just a collection of petty casters who 'don't know how to do it properly '
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The major obstacle for the Halethans in getting recognition for their contribution is that everyone on the Project assumes that they're only there as mouthpieces for Mathilde, to launder Grey College secrets she doesn't want to attribute for political reasons.
 
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Gavin Prince said:
The major obstacle for the Halethans in getting recognition for their contribution is that everyone on the Project assumes that they're only there as mouthpieces for Mathilde, to launder Grey College secrets she doesn't want to attribute for political reasons.
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I imagine that as long as they end up better protected from the Forest of Shadows by the end of this all, they won't mind.

...That said, I have to wonder if anyone will ever look at Mathilde and be like "Wow. Maybe that's why she's a dwarf now: she and her Order really like stones."
 
Gavin Prince said:
The major obstacle for the Halethans in getting recognition for their contribution is that everyone on the Project assumes that they're only there as mouthpieces for Mathilde, to launder Grey College secrets she doesn't want to attribute for political reasons.
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At first, probably, but I think that increasingly looked less the case as things went on, and probably at an even faster rate for the two kislevites.
 
Wow, those two plans are neck and neck right now. I'm thrilled with both of them to be honest, as the things I really cared about this turn were exploring the Dwarf waystone network with Thorek and the Ilithmar action so we'll have pocket change for the Elfcation next turn. And both have those things.

Beyond that, finally figuring out the nut would be great, and mastering the shadow would be a nice thing to do. But finishing off Eonir diplomacy, making an auditory magic sensor and clearing out the research backlog seem slightly more important at this point. But only slightly.
 
Boney said:
Not to pick on you specifically, but this sentiment in general that I've seen a fair few times recently is... not wrong, but incomplete. Another way to see the exact same events is the Ice Witches having been forced to show how far they've fallen by being unable to scrape up a single Ice Witch that is both seasoned and literate, and when they chose literate, they ended up feeding the poor girl into the jaws of an ancient ancestral enemy, giving a monster that spent centuries dunking on the Gospodars a chance to do it repeatedly in front of the collected magical traditions of the continent. A grand opportunity for prestige and peacocking has withered on the vine.
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I never thought of it that way. Huh. That puts the scene in a different light. Ljiljana pretty much ran through a list of better candidates before settling on someone who has a "thirst to prove herself." In universe, I imagine if Boris had mentioned he would send Baba Niedzwenka first, Ljiljana would have sent someone else. It's probably why she frowned, she couldn't really try to send someone else after Boris sent Baba Niedzwenka. It could cost her face.

Ljiljana's description of Zlata might have even been part of why Boris decided to send Baba Niedzwenka.

Boney said:
Boris and Ljiljana exchange thoughtful looks. "Your Colleges are built on Elf secrets," Boris says to you. "Perhaps can squeeze some more out of them."

"Me and Nadezhda will be busy with Boyar," Ljiljana says. "Milita only speaks Gospodarinyi, Věnceslava would get herself into trouble... Zlata can go. Good with languages, good with new people, thirst to prove herself."

"I think I will send word to Boyar Yevschenko. Baba Niedzwenka knows Elf and Imperinyi, and he will be happy for break from her." Ljiljana frowns at that, but doesn't comment.
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mathymancer said:
I think what Boney said is "have you considered that literacy may be so rare in the Ice Court that getting a literate Ice Witch means seriously compromising on her actual skill, and that this implies that the Ice Court is kind of in a bad shape?"

In fact, we know Zlata wasn't chosen for being the best, she was chosen for being literate and not busy. She outright told us as much when we socialed her, and she also mentioned that the lack of widespread literacy is because of the decline of the Ice Court:
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Gavin Prince said:
Sure, but I feel the more important factor there for us is

"Beyond having nothing more important to be doing?"

Because that can go very different ways depending on how the Ice Court viewed the project. If they thought it was important, then Zlata is their best choice of everyone they could possibly call away. If they viewed it as a folly they were indulging because Boris called in a marker, then Zlata is the best of whatever new graduates they had idling around.

And we have no way of actually knowing which is true until we interact more with the Ice Court (and maybe not even then, given few would admit the latter if it were the truth)
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I think pointing to the scene with Zlata is not going to give you an accurate picture of why she was sent. Zlata also suggested that she was sent to the Project because the Ice Witches were concerned sending someone more experienced would cause fighting in the Project. Ljiljana committed to sending Zlata before hearing that Boris was sending Niedzwenka.

It might have played into Ljiljana's internal excuses about why she sent Zlata anyways, rather than coming up with some excuse, but I bet that was mostly pride. She probably didn't want to admit she had made a mistake.
 
Since it looks like both of the plans in the lead have Ithilmar, I might as well just vote for the one I prefer:

[X] Plan Ithilmar, Enchantment and Exploration Language Edition


Maintaining my previous votes in case of sudden #fathersweep

[X] Plan A Morbifying Ore Deal
[X] Plan A Morbifying Ore Deal (ore deal not included)
[X] Plan An Enchanting Study Date with Panoramia
[X] Plan Redshirt v1: Infrastructure Focus
 
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