Starfleet Design Bureau

thepsyborg · Dec 17, 2023

[X] 1: Engineering Workshop (+2 Engineering, Capability: Fabrication)
[X] 2: Secondary Computer Core (+1 Science, Capability: Advanced Computers, +1 Cost)
[X] 3: Cargo Bay (+2 Engineering, Capability: +6 Cargo)
[X] 4: Astrometrics (+2 Science, Capability: Astrometrics)
[X] 5: Biosciences (+2 Science, Capability: Advanced Medical)
[X] 6: Geology Lab (+2 Science, Capability: Geology)

MightbeaMimic said:
[X] 1: Engineering Workshop (+2 Engineering, Capability: Fabrication)
[X] 2: Secondary Computer Core (+1 Science, Capability: Advanced Computers, +1 Cost)
[X] 3: Science Labs (+4 Science)
[X] 4: Astrometrics (+2 Science, Capability: Astrometrics)
[X] 5: Biosciences (+2 Science, Capability: Advanced Medical)
[X] 6: Cargo Bay (+1 Engineering, Capability: +2 Cargo)

I like this plan too- would approval-vote it if we were doing plan votes- and will revisiting my vote later on if it appears the science plan folks are firmly ahead of the range+crew quarters folks.

I suspect Large Cargo is going to win out in the end, though...and it is real good by the numbers. Trading 2 Science for 1 Engineering, one specialty science Capability, and triple the Cargo space is not a bad choice by any means. So I won't be mad either way.

FaxModem1 · Dec 17, 2023

[X] 1: Engineering Workshop (+2 Engineering, Capability: Fabrication)
[X] 2: Secondary Computer Core (+1 Science, Capability: Advanced Computers, +1 Cost)
[X] 3: Cargo Bay (+2 Engineering, Capability: +6 Cargo)
[X] 4: Astrometrics (+2 Science, Capability: Astrometrics)
[X] 5: Biosciences (+2 Science, Capability: Advanced Medical)
[X] 6: Geology Lab (+2 Science, Capability: Geology)

We're going to need the science and ability to deal with all the anomalies.

landcollector · Dec 17, 2023

[X] 1: Engineering Workshop (+2 Engineering, Capability: Fabrication)
[X] 2: Secondary Computer Core (+1 Science, Capability: Advanced Computers, +1 Cost)
[X] 3: Cargo Bay (+2 Engineering, Capability: +6 Cargo)
[X] 4: Astrometrics (+2 Science, Capability: Astrometrics)
[X] 5: Biosciences (+2 Science, Capability: Advanced Medical)
[X] 6: Geology Lab (+2 Science, Capability: Geology)

PuoltryInMotion · Dec 17, 2023

[X] 1: Engineering Workshop (+2 Engineering, Capability: Fabrication)
[X] 2: Secondary Computer Core (+1 Science, Capability: Advanced Computers, +1 Cost)
[X] 3: Cargo Bay (+2 Engineering, Capability: +6 Cargo)
[X] 4: Astrometrics (+2 Science, Capability: Astrometrics)
[X] 5: Biosciences (+2 Science, Capability: Advanced Medical)
[X] 6: Geology Lab (+2 Science, Capability: Geology)

Raw90 · Dec 17, 2023

[X] 1: Engineering Workshop (+2 Engineering, Capability: Fabrication)
[X] 2: Secondary Computer Core (+1 Science, Capability: Advanced Computers, +1 Cost)
[X] 3: Cargo Bay (+2 Engineering, Capability: +6 Cargo)
[X] 4: Astrometrics (+2 Science, Capability: Astrometrics)
[X] 5: Biosciences (+2 Science, Capability: Advanced Medical)
[X] 6: Geology Lab (+2 Science, Capability: Geology)

I think this is the right approach here. We get basically every scientific capability possible, including the planetary survey that the Curiosity-class wasn't as good for, and still have plenty of cargo storage and self-sustainment capability. 2 years at warp 5 cruise is a long way out, especially given how small the UFP is right now.

thepsyborg · Dec 17, 2023

Really wish we could split slot 3 into small lab + small cargo (+2 Science, +1 Engineering, +2 Cargo).

Half the Science, half the Engineering, one-third of the Cargo...it should be plausible, right? right?

Ah well. The last thing I want to do is risk an Experimental vote for interior layout if the physical layout of structurally-important bulkheads doesn't cooperate with trying to rejigger her internal spaces like this lol.

SaltyWaffles · Dec 17, 2023

@Sayle
Why would cargo bays give us bonuses to engineering? That's totally counterintuitive. Cargo bays are literally empty space. If you aren't hauling something worthwhile in them, they are functionally useless as anything other than empty space inside your ship.

There is plenty space for scientific samples in the labs and assorted rooms, and the engineering workshops would have to have enough space in themselves to, y'know, perform their jobs from start to finish.

I'm not sure why cargo bays are even an option for a long-range explorer. Historically, long-range expeditions would not have any cargo spaces that wouldn't be used from the start to store more provisions, since they wouldn't have anything to deliver (or return with) by their very nature unless trade was part of their mission goals.

Joyful_Overkill · Dec 17, 2023

[X] 1: Engineering Workshop (+2 Engineering, Capability: Fabrication)
[X] 2: Secondary Computer Core (+1 Science, Capability: Advanced Computers, +1 Cost)
[X] 3: Cargo Bay (+2 Engineering, Capability: +6 Cargo)
[X] 4: Astrometrics (+2 Science, Capability: Astrometrics)
[X] 5: Biosciences (+2 Science, Capability: Advanced Medical)
[X] 6: Geology Lab (+2 Science, Capability: Geology)

Zimmerwald1915 · Dec 17, 2023

Nyvis said:
It could also easily go do the reverse though. Do some proactive anti imperialism and go shoot down the not-british's attempts at bullying less developed polities while building diplomatic ties, while scouting for colonies and interesting biology on the road. the fact it's also equipped for most relief missions with its loadout would also be very helpful there.

I don't think this is a role our explorers can or should be tasked with doing as a dedicated mission, as opposed to perhaps doing it incidentally at the captain's discretion within the bounds of protocol. Deterring an imperialist power will usually call for a longterm commitment, not just a one-time show of force, and our explorers will be moving on from each first contact in short order. Timelines for second contact are dubious.

thepsyborg · Dec 17, 2023

Alectai said:
I think after this is just the final judgement where we get to see if Yolodyne fucked it up again or not?

Warp configuration and Photon Torpedoes, I believe. Although frankly I'm not particularly worried about the torpedoes.

SaltyWaffles said:
Why would cargo bays give us bonuses to engineering?

Because they're full of spares and supplies. Components and (in combination with the Workshop for fabrication capacity) raw materials.* Having all those supplies to do Engineering with means being able to do more Engineering and do it better. There's a difference between "enough bits and bobs in the Engineering Workshop to re-lap a clouded lens or machine a replacement antimatter injector" and "enough spares and supplies on hand to replace half the isolinear chips in the primary computer core and rebuild the entire warp deflector because we burned it out using it as an improvised beam weapon". Cargo space makes that difference.

*tritanium alloy rod, bar, and plate stock; unfired electro-ceramic; chips and resistors and sensors and bits of computing hardware; machine screws and washers and brackets and tubing and lights and viewscreens and cabling and epoxy and carbon-fibre and casting sand and glazing and paint and polish and powder-coat and plating and insulation and thermal paste and, and, and...

Zimmerwald1915 · Dec 17, 2023

[X] 1: Engineering Workshop (+2 Engineering, Capability: Fabrication)
[X] 2: Secondary Computer Core (+1 Science, Capability: Advanced Computers, +1 Cost)
[X] 3: Cargo Bay (+2 Engineering, Capability: +6 Cargo)
[X] 4: Astrometrics (+2 Science, Capability: Astrometrics)
[X] 5: Biosciences (+2 Science, Capability: Advanced Medical)
[X] 6: Geology Lab (+2 Science, Capability: Geology)

StriderInCosmos · Dec 17, 2023

Alright, and I thought our tactical options were expansive... here we go.

Sayle said:
[ ] 1: Cargo Bay (+1 Engineering, Capability: +2 Cargo)
[ ] 1: Engineering Workshop (+2 Engineering, Capability: Fabrication)

The Engineering Workshop is already a proven capability that's seen even the mightiest of our warships get a turnaround time (granted, only to barely operable, but even still) of a week before back in service. For as small as the cargo bay attached in exchange is, this one is an easy sell for me.

Sayle said:
[ ] 2: Miscellaneous Storage
[ ] 2: Secondary Computer Core (+1 Science, Capability: Advanced Computers, +1 Cost)
[ ] 2: Extra Antimatter Pods (+250ly Range, +2 Cost)

This one is a little tougher. The longer range is tempting, but as has been stated, true 5-year missions are still well on half a century's worth of development away. As neat as it would be to push for four-year missions, I think an extra computer core for our explorer, which should be processing a lot of things around it anyway, is the wisest call.

Sayle said:
[ ] 3: Science Labs (+4 Science)
[ ] 3: Cargo Bay (+2 Engineering, Capability: +6 Cargo)

Now here, these cargo bays are a much more tempting option, and while it is certainly enticing to have a maximum Science ship, the ability to haul a decent amount of cargo and get a decent bump in engineering, along with future options, means I'm comfortable picking the cargo bays here.

Sayle said:
[ ] 4: Astrometrics (+2 Science, Capability: Astrometrics)
[ ] 4: Extra Crew Quarters (Shared Quarters -> Personal Quarters)

With no extra antimatter pods to extend its range terribly far, I'm more comfortable giving an astrometrics suite to the ship in place of greater crew comfort. She may not be going remarkably far, but she'll be capable wherever she goes.

Sayle said:
[ ] 5: Biosciences (+2 Science, Capability: Advanced Medical)
[ ] 5: Cargo Bay (+1 Engineering, Capability: +2 Cargo)

This one's also an easy sell. With our current cargo bay, a biosciences suite would slot in more comfortably than a little extra cargo space, in my opinion. Copernicus is meant to poke around places and see what's out there, and while cargo carrying is a useful and often necessary function, we want the capability to explore as much as possible in every single ship.

Sayle said:
[ ] 6: Cargo Bay (+1 Engineering, Capability: +2 Cargo)
[ ] 6: Geology Lab (+2 Science, Capability: Geology)

The same thought process as above goes for this one. More science and capability to explore strange new worlds for a little less cargo area.

So, my vote (and I'll fully admit, I'd like to know how to make this a 'plan', but don't fully know how) follows @Skippy's general recommendation:

[X] Plan 9 science, 6 engineering, 6 cargo
-[X] 1: Engineering Workshop (+2 Engineering, Capability: Fabrication)
-[X] 2: Secondary Computer Core (+1 Science, Capability: Advanced Computers, +1 Cost)
-[X] 3: Cargo Bay (+2 Engineering, Capability: +6 Cargo)
-[X] 4: Astrometrics (+2 Science, Capability: Astrometrics)
-[X] 5: Biosciences (+2 Science, Capability: Advanced Medical)
-[X] 6: Geology Lab (+2 Science, Capability: Geology)

tenchifew · Dec 17, 2023

[X] 1: Engineering Workshop (+2 Engineering, Capability: Fabrication)
[X] 2: Secondary Computer Core (+1 Science, Capability: Advanced Computers, +1 Cost)
[X] 3: Cargo Bay (+2 Engineering, Capability: +6 Cargo)
[X] 4: Astrometrics (+2 Science, Capability: Astrometrics)
[X] 5: Biosciences (+2 Science, Capability: Advanced Medical)
[X] 6: Geology Lab (+2 Science, Capability: Geology)

landcollector · Dec 17, 2023

StriderInCosmos said:
So, my vote (and I'll fully admit, I'd like to know how to make this a 'plan', but don't fully know how) follows @Skippy's general recommendation:

For future reference, a plan vote has the following format:

[EX] Plan Example
-[EX] choice 1
-[EX] choice 2
...

And so on.

MS-21H 'Hawke' · Dec 17, 2023

With this new Gen Explorer outperforming the Thunderchild, I REALLY want to see what kind of Monster Dreadnought we could build NOW.

I hope we don't have too, because implications would be unpleasant, but it would still be fun to see the shenanigans we could pull off.

Carcer · Dec 17, 2023

[X] 1: Engineering Workshop (+2 Engineering, Capability: Fabrication)
[X] 2: Secondary Computer Core (+1 Science, Capability: Advanced Computers, +1 Cost)
[X] 3: Cargo Bay (+2 Engineering, Capability: +6 Cargo)
[X] 4: Astrometrics (+2 Science, Capability: Astrometrics)
[X] 5: Biosciences (+2 Science, Capability: Advanced Medical)
[X] 6: Geology Lab (+2 Science, Capability: Geology)

someplaneguy · Dec 17, 2023

[X] 1: Engineering Workshop (+2 Engineering, Capability: Fabrication)
[X] 2: Extra Antimatter Pods (+250ly Range, +2 Cost)
[X] 3: Science Labs (+4 Science)
[X] 4: Astrometrics (+2 Science, Capability: Astrometrics)
[X] 5: Biosciences (+2 Science, Capability: Advanced Medical)
[X] 6: Geology Lab (+2 Science, Capability: Geology)

VicSage · Dec 17, 2023

[X] 1: Engineering Workshop (+2 Engineering, Capability: Fabrication)
[X] 2: Secondary Computer Core (+1 Science, Capability: Advanced Computers, +1 Cost)
[X] 3: Cargo Bay (+2 Engineering, Capability: +6 Cargo)
[X] 4: Astrometrics (+2 Science, Capability: Astrometrics)
[X] 5: Biosciences (+2 Science, Capability: Advanced Medical)
[X] 6: Geology Lab (+2 Science, Capability: Geology)

If it weren't for Astrometrics taking over the space for improved crew quarters, I'd have put in for the four year explorer. Astrometrics is kinda crucial to a 4 year mission, I'd have switched out Geology to do that.

thepsyborg · Dec 17, 2023

StriderInCosmos said:
Alright, and I thought our tactical options were expansive... here we go.

We spent SO MUCH on being Big McLargeHuge just for this step and damn if it isn't satisfying to see it pay off. Loving it. Absolutely loving it.

StriderInCosmos said:
and I'll fully admit, I'd like to know how to make this a 'plan', but don't fully know how

you basically format it like so:
[ ] Plan Some Clever Plan Name Here
-[ ] A Plan Element
-[ ] Another Plan Element
-[ ] A Third Plan Element
--[ ] With A Sub-Element
--[ ] Or Two Sub-Elements
-[ ] A Fourth Plan Element
just with X's inside the brackets. It tends to make the voting a complicated mess if there are both plan and line votes for the same items (though you could do mixed votes on different items, e.g. plan votes for the ship's aux slot options and line votes for its name), which is why QMs will usually specify.

Sayle hasn't specified either, hence we assumed line voting (it's generally the default), but they recently clarified that plan votes are fine too, we're free to propose and vote for plan votes.

They're just unlikely to result in anything other than a confusing tangle as people try to weigh plan versus line options- it makes "just look through the votes and vote for what you actually want" very unlikely to actually put your vote effectively toward what you want, meaning strategic voting becomes both semi-mandatory and also a really complicated dynamic thing as the overall trend shifts between "more plans votes versus more line votes overall" and "the top plan votes versus the top line votes".

googlyeyesultra · Dec 17, 2023

[X] 1: Engineering Workshop (+2 Engineering, Capability: Fabrication)
[X] 2: Secondary Computer Core (+1 Science, Capability: Advanced Computers, +1 Cost)
[X] 3: Cargo Bay (+2 Engineering, Capability: +6 Cargo)
[X] 4: Astrometrics (+2 Science, Capability: Astrometrics)
[X] 5: Biosciences (+2 Science, Capability: Advanced Medical)
[X] 6: Geology Lab (+2 Science, Capability: Geology)

Ramble · Dec 17, 2023

[X] 1: Engineering Workshop (+2 Engineering, Capability: Fabrication)
[X] 2: Secondary Computer Core (+1 Science, Capability: Advanced Computers, +1 Cost)
[X] 3: Cargo Bay (+2 Engineering, Capability: +6 Cargo) [X] 4: Astrometrics (+2 Science, Capability: Astrometrics)
[X] 5: Biosciences (+2 Science, Capability: Advanced Medical)
[X] 6: Geology Lab (+2 Science, Capability: Geology)

[X] Plan 9 science, 6 engineering, 6 cargo
-[X] 1: Engineering Workshop (+2 Engineering, Capability: Fabrication)
-[X] 2: Secondary Computer Core (+1 Science, Capability: Advanced Computers, +1 Cost)
-[X] 3: Cargo Bay (+2 Engineering, Capability: +6 Cargo)
-[X] 4: Astrometrics (+2 Science, Capability: Astrometrics)
-[X] 5: Biosciences (+2 Science, Capability: Advanced Medical)
-[X] 6: Geology Lab (+2 Science, Capability: Geology)

Takareer · Dec 17, 2023

Too bad we can't get extra antimatter pods, and use them in a particle projector. Big ol' antimatter cannon to really explore the insides of things.

[X] Plan 9 science, 6 engineering, 6 cargo
-[X] 1: Engineering Workshop (+2 Engineering, Capability: Fabrication)
-[X] 2: Secondary Computer Core (+1 Science, Capability: Advanced Computers, +1 Cost)
-[X] 3: Cargo Bay (+2 Engineering, Capability: +6 Cargo)
-[X] 4: Astrometrics (+2 Science, Capability: Astrometrics)
-[X] 5: Biosciences (+2 Science, Capability: Advanced Medical)
-[X] 6: Geology Lab (+2 Science, Capability: Geology)

Ash19256 · Dec 17, 2023

[X] 1: Engineering Workshop (+2 Engineering, Capability: Fabrication)
[X] 2: Secondary Computer Core (+1 Science, Capability: Advanced Computers, +1 Cost)
[X] 3: Cargo Bay (+2 Engineering, Capability: +6 Cargo)
[X] 4: Astrometrics (+2 Science, Capability: Astrometrics)
[X] 5: Biosciences (+2 Science, Capability: Advanced Medical)
[X] 6: Geology Lab (+2 Science, Capability: Geology)

This seems like an excellent all-round balance of capabilities - matching or exceeding the capabilities of any previous ship, with range equal to if not longer than any of our other ships, and able to cruise at speeds comparable to its smaller predecessors with equal if not superior unrefueled range.

thepsyborg · Dec 17, 2023

Th3Saints said:
Is there any chance for a Thunderchild refit has a mobile support base to make peace time usage from its engineering ability?

Probably not as cost-effective as a new build*, and also entirely too precious as a future museum ship. (Possibly even the Federation's USS Constitution-equivalent, where she remains in perpetual commission as the flagship of Starfleet.)

*would need an entire new warp core and nacelles, minimum, as well as a huge amount of internal reconfiguration as she no longer needs massive power conduits to feed all the weapons, all over the hull; the tech jump from polarized plating to shields means that for noncombat vessels ditanium is light, cheap, and strong enough that a new-build is almost certainly cheaper than awkwardly tetris-puzzling cargo and workshops into her highly-compartmentalized internals or ripping her saucer entirely apart and re-framing everything but the outer plating.

Jax · Dec 17, 2023

[x] 1: Cargo Bay (+1 Engineering, Capability: +2 Cargo)
[x] 2: Extra Antimatter Pods (+250ly Range, +2 Cost)
[x] 3: Science Labs (+4 Science)
[x] 4: Extra Crew Quarters (Shared Quarters -> Personal Quarters)
[x] 5: Biosciences (+2 Science, Capability: Advanced Medical)
[x] 6: Geology Lab (+2 Science, Capability: Geology)

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