Starfleet Design Bureau

[X] 1: Engineering Workshop (+2 Engineering, Capability: Fabrication Suite)
[X] 2: Biological-Rated Transporter Room (Capability: Transporters)
[X] 3: Large Cargo Bay (+1 Engineering, Capability: +3 Cargo)

Cargo space, decent firepower, and under budget. Not too shabby.
 
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Yes, they let us move people around more quickly than using a shuttle. The time saving is only relevant if it lets the ship complete missions faster, which it only does if the governing factor on how long the ship has to remain on-station is transport time for personnel. This may be the case in some mission profiles, but I don't think it will be all the time - there are other factors which will tend to determine mission duration. The time when it really shines is in emergencies, which is why I was mentally lumping it in as a medical thing.

There's a cool use case of transporters (not even bio rated), and it's postal drops. Just fly by and beam down your package. You save on a lot of docking or landing procedures, which I think is neat if you have a lot of packages.

And considering this is our fastest cargo rated ship, I think it could be kinda relevant.

There's also a special ops use case. I don't think it would be too hard to use this ship to deliver commandos to groundside pirate bases for example. Or resupply stranded ground forces. And the transporter makes that much less risky than shuttles.
 
Honestly the transporter is pretty much a no-brainer unless we went for the biomedical module - unless the design has a beefy lab setup, which outside the biomedical module it doesn't, the crew probably wouldn't need the parallel processing of having a secondary computer core - and even then, if the purpose is to have the ship serve as a crisis hospital a transporter is also invaluable for rapid triage.
 
The secondary computer core might support the fabrication bay for better, faster and easier designs. I could see it being actually really useful in that regard.

But transporters are magic. Better 3d printing doesn't really compare.
 
There's a cool use case of transporters (not even bio rated), and it's postal drops. Just fly by and beam down your package. You save on a lot of docking or landing procedures, which I think is neat if you have a lot of packages.

And considering this is our fastest cargo rated ship, I think it could be kinda relevant.

There's also a special ops use case. I don't think it would be too hard to use this ship to deliver commandos to groundside pirate bases for example. Or resupply stranded ground forces. And the transporter makes that much less risky than shuttles.
This is an era where not everyone out there has shields. It is quite possible to end a navel encounter by the simple process of transporting the enemy crew into the brig.
 
This is an era where not everyone out there has shields. It is quite possible to end a navel encounter by the simple process of transporting the enemy crew into the brig.

Wait what.

Can we lock on targets to transport that way? I would have expected our crew to be transportable because they have some way to communicate their position to the transporter.
 
Wait what.

Can we lock on targets to transport that way? I would have expected our crew to be transportable because they have some way to communicate their position to the transporter.
If your sensors are good enough to lock onto "life signs" and you're not too terribly picky, yes. I doubt Khufu's are, since advanced sensors don't seem to be available.
 
Wait what.

Can we lock on targets to transport that way? I would have expected our crew to be transportable because they have some way to communicate their position to the transporter.
Maybe it's just because I've been slamming through Lower Decks at an inadvisable pace, but I think the transporter being usable for chicanery like that is more of a TNG-era thing. At the current time Starfleet transporters probably still need a special transponder/coordinates to target with and it takes time to lock on.
 
Nah, 'life signs' is something the NX 01 could detect. And you NEED that for Transporters to even function, you have to scan a body down to the atomic level, from orbit in many cases, including momentum, then disassemble it and reassemble it on the pad.
 
Time is always a governing factor. There is literally no mission profile where taking twenty seconds to deploy an away team and another twenty to recover them, rather than twenty minutes, does not come up. There are precious few where it's not strictly superior.

It is, and that's really handy, but the point I was making is somewhat different, apologies if I was speaking unclearly. What I mean is that in a lot of mission types, the constraint that governs the overall duration of the mission is likely to be something else. If the ship is escorting a freighter, or taking some sensor readings at different points in an atmosphere to work out why a planet's ozone layer has been depleted in fifty years rather than five hundred thousand like models suggested, or helping build a geological monitoring station, etc... There are going to be other constraints or pinch-points in the schedule which still determine mission duration even if the crew could instantaneously be transported everywhere.

It's like, I don't know if you've ever played one of those games like Factorio, where the speed in a production line is essentially set by the slowest part of the production line? (I haven't, but it's the best analogy I can think of.) It doesn't matter if your widget-spinner is instantaneous, if your flumbit-plunger still takes thirty seconds. That kind of thing.

So the Biological Transporter is definitely nice to have, and undoubtedly improves general efficiency in a bunch of ways, and is great for emergencies or certain other kinds of emergency-adjacent scenarios, though. But it does not necessarily directly boost the amount of work the ship can do in a year in the same sense as higher warp cruising speeds, because transport time for away teams is not typically the governing time constraint for mission duration.

There's a cool use case of transporters (not even bio rated), and it's postal drops. Just fly by and beam down your package. You save on a lot of docking or landing procedures, which I think is neat if you have a lot of packages.

And considering this is our fastest cargo rated ship, I think it could be kinda relevant.

We do have transporters either way, I should add, they'll just be the standard ones where you don't use them for people except in emergencies, and sometimes cause transporter-induced injuries if you try. But for cargo and stuff, they're normally fine.

There's also a special ops use case. I don't think it would be too hard to use this ship to deliver commandos to groundside pirate bases for example. Or resupply stranded ground forces. And the transporter makes that much less risky than shuttles.

Honestly using transporters for commando stuff never comes up enough in Star Trek and it should. Probably a budget thing, but can you imagine how cool using a transporter to teleport people in for a HALO jump would look? Or dropping them at really low altitude under enemy sensors, then having them wingsuit through a canyon and base jump.
 
It is, and that's really handy, but the point I was making is somewhat different, apologies if I was speaking unclearly. What I mean is that in a lot of mission types, the constraint that governs the overall duration of the mission is likely to be something else. If the ship is escorting a freighter, or taking some sensor readings at different points in an atmosphere to work out why a planet's ozone layer has been depleted in fifty years rather than five hundred thousand like models suggested, or helping build a geological monitoring station, etc... There are going to be other constraints or pinch-points in the schedule which still determine mission duration even if the crew could instantaneously be transported everywhere.

It's like, I don't know if you've ever played one of those games like Factorio, where the speed in a production line is essentially set by the slowest part of the production line? (I haven't, but it's the best analogy I can think of.) It doesn't matter if your widget-spinner is instantaneous, if your flumbit-plunger still takes thirty seconds. That kind of thing.

So the Biological Transporter is definitely nice to have, and undoubtedly improves general efficiency in a bunch of ways, and is great for emergencies or certain other kinds of emergency-adjacent scenarios, though. But it does not necessarily directly boost the amount of work the ship can do in a year in the same sense as higher warp cruising speeds, because transport time for away teams is not typically the governing time constraint for mission duration.



We do have transporters either way, I should add, they'll just be the standard ones where you don't use them for people except in emergencies, and sometimes cause transporter-induced injuries if you try. But for cargo and stuff, they're normally fine.



Honestly using transporters for commando stuff never comes up enough in Star Trek and it should. Probably a budget thing, but can you imagine how cool using a transporter to teleport people in for a HALO jump would look? Or dropping them at really low altitude under enemy sensors, then having them wingsuit through a canyon and base jump.
Honestly while the transporter is cool, the issue for me is that the computer costs half as much as a nacelle and this ship isn't being graded on it's science score. That's about 7-8% of the ship's total cost. I would rather have one more ship out of this run of ships than have a better computer in each of them.

I would rather 100 credits be added to the next ship we design's budget. Hell, the next ship is likely to have a limited number of ships in that run. We could see 200-300 credits added to the budget per ship next ship if the savings are rolled forward.

That we ALSO get a bio-compatible transporter out of the deal is just icing on the cake.
 
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There's also a special ops use case. I don't think it would be too hard to use this ship to deliver commandos to groundside pirate bases for example. Or resupply stranded ground forces. And the transporter makes that much less risky than shuttles.
Honestly using transporters for commando stuff never comes up enough in Star Trek and it should. Probably a budget thing, but can you imagine how cool using a transporter to teleport people in for a HALO jump would look? Or dropping them at really low altitude under enemy sensors, then having them wingsuit through a canyon and base jump.
Huh. I had forgotten to mention it (and then forgot in general) but I recall musing to myself about putting a transporter on the patrol vessel for doing star-marine boarding actions and the like.
 
Honestly while the transporter is cool, the issue for me is that the computer costs half as much as a nacelle and this ship isn't being graded on it's science score. That's about 7-8% of the ship's total cost. I would rather have one more ship out of this run of ships than have a better computer in each of them.

I would rather 100 credits be added to the next ship we design's budget.

That we ALSO get a bio-compatible transporter out of the deal is just icing on the cake.

I don't think we'll get a hundred credits for the explorer, but I do think Starfleet will definitely be happy with us if we come in significantly underbudget whilst still meeting requirements.

In terms of the Science score, it's a secondary role for a workhorse cruiser, but we're in the very early days of the Federation and there's a lot of science to be done. I suspect that if the ship has a Science rating of 3 - only one less than our NX class explorers - it will find a lot of opportunities to put that to use in the course of patrolling and so on.

I will also freely admit I'm curious what the Additional Computers capability gives, and if it has tactical applications. But we can always wait until the explorer.

Huh. I had forgotten to mention it (and then forgot in general) but I recall musing to myself about putting a transporter on the patrol vessel for doing star-marine boarding actions and the like.

There is definitely a role for a transporter in a ship doing anti-piracy work specifically, that's fair to note.
 
I don't think we'll get a hundred credits for the explorer, but I do think Starfleet will definitely be happy with us if we come in significantly underbudget whilst still meeting requirements.

In terms of the Science score, it's a secondary role for a workhorse cruiser, but we're in the very early days of the Federation and there's a lot of science to be done. I suspect that if the ship has a Science rating of 3 - only one less than our NX class explorers - it will find a lot of opportunities to put that to use in the course of patrolling and so on.

I will also freely admit I'm curious what the Additional Computers capability gives, and if it has tactical applications. But we can always wait until the explorer.



There is definitely a role for a transporter in a ship doing anti-piracy work specifically, that's fair to note.
I don't know that we will get extra budget for the explorer ether, but I could absolutely see extra budget as something that is at least possible as an outcome. This isn't a capitalist society. Credits are not something that will sit in a bank. They are an accounting unit to allocate resources. The amount of resources remain what they are. They WILL be spent, ether on producing more ships in this run, being rolled forward into the next run of ships, or spent elsewhere in the economy on ether continuing to build up more industry or producing more civilian ships.

All of those are good things.
 
We do have transporters either way, I should add, they'll just be the standard ones where you don't use them for people except in emergencies, and sometimes cause transporter-induced injuries if you try. But for cargo and stuff, they're normally fine.

You're not wrong. I'm feeling kinda cheated in that the option competing with the bio rated transporters is really not attractive on this ship.

Honestly using transporters for commando stuff never comes up enough in Star Trek and it should. Probably a budget thing, but can you imagine how cool using a transporter to teleport people in for a HALO jump would look? Or dropping them at really low altitude under enemy sensors, then having them wingsuit through a canyon and base jump.

How about boarding action?
 
[X] 1: Engineering Workshop (+2 Engineering, Capability: Fabrication Suite)
[X] 2: Biological-Rated Transporter Room (Capability: Transporters)
[X] 3: Large Cargo Bay (+1 Engineering, Capability: +3 Cargo)
 
You're not wrong. I'm feeling kinda cheated in that the option competing with the bio rated transporters is really not attractive on this ship.



How about boarding action?
Personally I always questioned why Star Trek ships still used torpedo BAYS when they have transporters. Why shoot the photon torpedo out the front of the ship? Why not just teleport the torpedo right up to the edge of the other ship's shields?

Or why not both. Torpedo bays for shooting at things outside transporter range, but when things close into knife fight range you teleport a bunch of photon mines directly out of storage and straight into the path of the enemy ship. The advantage is that you can have a weapon system that requires purely internal volume to deploy.

Sure, they can shoot the photon mines with their phasers, but that's them using their phasors to shoot photon mines instead of shooting at you.

Also you could launch anti-matter missiles out of the cargo bay. Give them anti-mater storage and impulse thrusters and I bet you could make a reasonably priced space based medium range cruise missile. Sure, again, the enemy can shoot them out of the sky, but they would be performing ramming actions while you are doing the initial alphastrike clash of a fleet encounter and that's phasers they would be shooting at you not shooting at you or your regular photon torpedoes during that clash.
 
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Personally I always questioned why Star Trek ships still used torpedo BAYS when they have transporters. Why shoot the photon torpedo out the front of the ship? Why not just teleport the torpedo right up to the edge of the other ship's shields?

Or why not both. Torpedo bays for shooting at things outside transporter range, but when things close into knife fight range you teleport a bunch of photon mines directly out of storage and straight into the path of the enemy ship. The advantage is that you can have a weapon system that requires purely internal volume to deploy.

Sure, they can shoot the photon mines with their phasers, but that's them using their phasors to shoot photon mines instead of shooting at you.
Unsure of the reason myself. Perhaps a primed/active antimatter warhead reacts...poorly with Transporter tech?
 
I don't know that we will get extra budget for the explorer ether, but I could absolutely see extra budget as something that is at least possible as an outcome. This isn't a capitalist society. Credits are not something that will sit in a bank. They are an accounting unit to allocate resources. The amount of resources remain what they are. They WILL be spent, ether on producing more ships in this run, being rolled forward into the next run of ships, or spent elsewhere in the economy on ether continuing to build up more industry or producing more civilian ships.

All of those are good things.

I think that it is definitely good for us in a generalised sense if we can deliver underbudget whilst still producing ships that can do the job, no question. But I doubt there will be a specific numerical effect like that, because it would mean @Sayle has to track more numbers, which I know he dislikes doing. Especially when still coping with the aftereffects of From the Ashes' spreadsheet-induced PTSD. 😅

How about boarding action?

Yeah, honestly all of those things should be doable with transporters and it would be cool if they came up more in the plot of episodes. You do see it happen with how the Enterprise engages the Borg Cube to rescue Picard in Best of Both Worlds, and I'm sure there are other examples. Honestly I suspect it's a budget/set thing as much as anything else.
 
I think that it is definitely good for us in a generalised sense if we can deliver underbudget whilst still producing ships that can do the job, no question. But I doubt there will be a specific numerical effect like that, because it would mean @Sayle has to track more numbers, which I know he dislikes doing. Especially when still coping with the aftereffects of From the Ashes' spreadsheet-induced PTSD. 😅

Are you implying that this might be in some way stressful or complicated to formulate and update?
 
Personally I always questioned why Star Trek ships still used torpedo BAYS when they have transporters. Why shoot the photon torpedo out the front of the ship? Why not just teleport the torpedo right up to the edge of the other ship's shields?

Or why not both. Torpedo bays for shooting at things outside transporter range, but when things close into knife fight range you teleport a bunch of photon mines directly out of storage and straight into the path of the enemy ship. The advantage is that you can have a weapon system that requires purely internal volume to deploy.

Sure, they can shoot the photon mines with their phasers, but that's them using their phasors to shoot photon mines instead of shooting at you.

Also you could launch anti-matter missiles out of the cargo bay. Give them anti-mater storage and impulse thrusters and I bet you could make a reasonably priced space based medium range cruise missile. Sure, again, the enemy can shoot them out of the sky, but they would be performing ramming actions while you are doing the initial alphastrike clash of a fleet encounter and that's phasers they would be shooting at you not shooting at you or your regular photon torpedoes during that clash.
Some information that might answer your questions:

During combat situations both ships will have shields up. It is generally not possible to transport through your own shields and unsafe to lower shields to do so.

Explosions or otherwise energetic disruptions during the transporter process can be highly dangerous. On two occasions in DS9 objects exploded mid transport and caused major systems damage with the energy following the transporter beam back to the transporter. One instance caused a shuttlecraft to lose nearly all primary systems and suffered a crash landing. The transporter pattern buffer holds matter mid transport and there is a lot of energy in matter. It is not impossible that ship weapons fire to disrupt a transport could cause an energy backlash back to the transporter pad. This explosive backlash would bypass hull plates.

For Starfleet at least, the TNG technical manual states that deuterium and anti-matter are only loaded into torpedoes just prior to launch for safety reasons. The payload is not stored in the torpedoes long term. Both deuterium and anti-matter are siphoned from the ship's fuel tanks, where they are stored long term. The torpedo bay is where the equipment to load the explosive mix into the torpedoes are. Preloaded torpedoes or missiles in a cargo bay could be subject to weapons fire and cause an internal explosion. Imagine if the warheads were pre armed and the opposing ship had enough alpha strike to take down the shields, only a minor hit would be needed to set the entire bay off.

(Side note: last minute loading is also why Starfleet ships usually have torpedo launchers on the same primary or secondary hull that the warp core is in. That's why ship classes like the Excelsior, Galaxy, and Intrepid do not have torpedo launchers at the tip of the saucer. Don't want to pipe anti-matter through a lot of the ship and through the sensitive saucer equipment. The Akiras, Mirandas, and Nebulas preferred to route anti-matter into an external mission pod than into the saucer. It really shows the thought put into fictional ship designs that safety affects style.)
 
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2167: Project Khufu (Certification)
[X] 1: Engineering Workshop (+2 Engineering, Capability: Fabrication Suite)
[X] 2: Biological-Rated Transporter Room (Capability: Transporters)
[X] 3: Large Cargo Bay (+1 Engineering, Capability: +3 Cargo)

Engineering: 5 (Shuttles, Transporter, Fabrication Suite, Cargo)
Science: 2


Khufu Mission Certification

The Khufu design specification is for a utility cruiser capable of internal policing, cargo transport, and general duties in the Federation interior. As part of the New Economy Transition Plan of 2164, the prototype budget was limited to 2.2 million Terran Credits, equivalent to 2.2 million Federation Credits, with an industrial footprint of 20% United Earth's annual capacity.

It is the judgement of this report that the Khufu (NX-800) meets these requirements under-budget. Details follow.

The Khufu has a short operational range at an efficient cruise of Warp 5.2 and maximum cruise of Warp 6. This translates to an operational range of sixty light years from the nearest refuelling station. The Khufu is capable of a maximum velocity of Warp 6.8 for twelve hours.

The Khufu is equipped with a Type-1 shield matrix, four Type-1 phaser emitters, and two forward photonic torpedo launchers. The design lacks weapon arcs firing aft. This is compensated by three Type-1 impulse thrusters each capable of outputting one hundred kilotons of standard acceleration for above-average maneuverability.

The Khufu is serviced by a twelve-meter optical computer stack. It is also equipped with a standard medical and diagnostics bay with beds for eight.

The Khufu has an aft-opening shuttlebay with a standard complement of four shuttlepods (2 active, 2 disassembled). This is supplemented by a biological-rated transporter system for the rapid deployment of personnel and supplies. Cargo is stored in the forward bow section on deck 5, with room for three hundred standard containers. On-site fabrication and assembly is provided by a workshop and prototyping section on deck 13.

In concordance with the findings of this review and in consultation with Starfleet Command, Supervisor San Francisco authorises one (1) production run of ten vessels, further orders to be reviewed after a performance analysis in five years.

Khufu prototype is authorised and reclassified for deployment under registry number NCC-800, pending commissioning.



[ ] 0: United Starship (USS)
[ ] 0: Federation Starship (FSS)
[ ] 0: United Federation Starship (UFS)
[ ] 0: United Federation of Planets Starship (UFPS)

[ ] 1: Khufu
[ ] 1: Cygnet
[ ] 1: Assistor
[ ] 1: Other

 
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