I.F. Ister
Fortifying The Thread
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- He/They
In front of you, yes
I thought I already did them?
NorseQuest (A Norse Xianxia)
- Thread starter I.F. Ister
- Start date
- Original Fantasy Action
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- Tags
- norse mythology (mythology) original xianxia cultivation western cultivation ask sirihand did your mother tell you anything? discussion pleases yggdrasil farming gloating gets people killed granary management hubris is a coward's word you will die norsemen do not die when they are killed the qm has a bad memory the qm is bad at math viking courtroom drama (legal drama) vikings
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- He/Him
I don't see a listed weakness for Feet of Clay or any indication of Effort-Gauge working...that's supposed to give us a rough dice range. I wouldn't expect anything exact at this level...but 'he's trying to kill you' is information we'd have even without Effort Gauge, and something involving the order of magnitude of dice to expect was why we bought the Trick.
Like, are we facing 20d6 attacks here, or 80d6 attacks? Something to indicate which would be what we got the Trick for.
So I think we need to remember Steinarr's advice about pacing ourselves here.
With that in mind, I've come up with a plan which tries to shepherd our orthstirr as much as possible whilst still providing a really strong offence, by taking advantage of our Stoking Engage and Contested Movement, two incredibly powerful abilities which don't use lots of Orthstirr.
[X] Plan It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
-[X] Preparation
--[X] Slowing-Slog (-9 Orthstirr) (+3 Stoked Dice) (+1 DR)
--[X] Slipstream (-8 Orthstirr) (+3 Stoked Dice)
--[X] Explosive-Reactive Armour (-9 Orthstirr) (+3 Stoked Dice)
--[X] Activate Stoker State (-9 Orthstirr)
--[X] Reinforce Shield (10 Layers) (-5 Orthstirr)
--[X] Invest 3 Orthstirr in Hugr, 1 in Composure, 4 in Tactics, 3 in Scouting (-11 Orthstirr)
-[X] Strategy
-[X] We probe his defences with a couple of Firebomb-Strikes and unleash our Devouring Blaze to clear any magical constructs before getting the party started with a Stoking Engage, intending to pummel his defences and build our Stoked Pool. When he inevitably tries to break our Stoking Engage, we counter with our Contested Movement to hit him hard.
--[X] If he reveals any surprising bullshit or One Weird Tricks, then break the combat round while we figure out what to do.
-[X] Attack (69d6)
--[X] Leap in with two 35d6+6 Sharpened Lightning-Charged Reversed Firebomb-Strikes with Puncture (-22 Orthstirr) (+6 Stoked Dice) to probe his defences, unleashing our 1d6 Devouring Blaze (-3 Stoked Dice) as close the distance to get rid of any surprises.
--[X] Continue with a Stoking Engage (-13 Orthstirr) (18 Stoked Dice), throwing eighteen 3d6+5 Sharpened Basic Attacks (-18 Orthstirr), with +6 Speed.
-[X] Defence (69d6)
--[X] Summon a 40d6+10 Atgeir Guard. (-46 Orthstirr)
--[X] If it looks like we can simply ignore incoming attacks, then do so. Don't let it break our rhythm with Stoked Engage.
--[X] Use up to two 30d6+10 Sway defences to try and keep our rhythm going a bit longer with Stoking Engage, weaving out of the way of attacks that would interrupt us.
--[X] When we get towards the end of our Stoking Engage, get interrupted, or he throws a particularly scary-looking attack, we go to...
-[X] Counter-Attack
-[X] (-3 Orthstirr) Contested Movement + X Stoked Dice
--[X] If we have at least thirty Stoked Dice in our pool, then throw all of our pool except six Stoked Dice into a Sharpened Lightning-Charged Stoking Strike with Puncture (-11 Orthstirr) which we combine with a Delayed Firebomb Strike (+3 Stoked Dice) (- ?? Orthstirr for layering another Trick on top). The six remaining Stoked Dice go into the Hamr check.
--[X] The three Stoked Dice generated from our FBS are saved for next turn.
--[X] If something went wrong and we didn't land that many Basics, then throw our whole Stoked Pool into Contested Movement, and hit him with a Spark-Bomb with Puncture (-24 Orthstirr).
-[X] Total Orthstirr expenditure: -173 Orthstirr (-186 Orthstirr if we use Sparkbomb) (-12 extra Orthstirr if we use a final Firebomb-Strike to finish him off)
-[X] Total Stoked Dice Accounting: 18 + 15 - 3 - 18 + Stoking Engage = 12 + Stoking Engage
This spends around a hundred and thirty Orthstirr, and we avoid using a charge of Fight of Your Life, but I think we still have a very good chance of seriously wounding this guy in the first round of combat.
Let's bury this fucker in his own blood.
EDIT: Numerous tweaks and revisions, thanks go out to @DeadmanwalkingXI as always for his wealth of system knowledge and immense generosity in sharing it with anyone else who is coming up with a plan.
With that in mind, I've come up with a plan which tries to shepherd our orthstirr as much as possible whilst still providing a really strong offence, by taking advantage of our Stoking Engage and Contested Movement, two incredibly powerful abilities which don't use lots of Orthstirr.
[X] Plan It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
-[X] Preparation
--[X] Slowing-Slog (-9 Orthstirr) (+3 Stoked Dice) (+1 DR)
--[X] Slipstream (-8 Orthstirr) (+3 Stoked Dice)
--[X] Explosive-Reactive Armour (-9 Orthstirr) (+3 Stoked Dice)
--[X] Activate Stoker State (-9 Orthstirr)
--[X] Reinforce Shield (10 Layers) (-5 Orthstirr)
--[X] Invest 3 Orthstirr in Hugr, 1 in Composure, 4 in Tactics, 3 in Scouting (-11 Orthstirr)
-[X] Strategy
-[X] We probe his defences with a couple of Firebomb-Strikes and unleash our Devouring Blaze to clear any magical constructs before getting the party started with a Stoking Engage, intending to pummel his defences and build our Stoked Pool. When he inevitably tries to break our Stoking Engage, we counter with our Contested Movement to hit him hard.
--[X] If he reveals any surprising bullshit or One Weird Tricks, then break the combat round while we figure out what to do.
-[X] Attack (69d6)
--[X] Leap in with two 35d6+6 Sharpened Lightning-Charged Reversed Firebomb-Strikes with Puncture (-22 Orthstirr) (+6 Stoked Dice) to probe his defences, unleashing our 1d6 Devouring Blaze (-3 Stoked Dice) as close the distance to get rid of any surprises.
--[X] Continue with a Stoking Engage (-13 Orthstirr) (18 Stoked Dice), throwing eighteen 3d6+5 Sharpened Basic Attacks (-18 Orthstirr), with +6 Speed.
-[X] Defence (69d6)
--[X] Summon a 40d6+10 Atgeir Guard. (-46 Orthstirr)
--[X] If it looks like we can simply ignore incoming attacks, then do so. Don't let it break our rhythm with Stoked Engage.
--[X] Use up to two 30d6+10 Sway defences to try and keep our rhythm going a bit longer with Stoking Engage, weaving out of the way of attacks that would interrupt us.
--[X] When we get towards the end of our Stoking Engage, get interrupted, or he throws a particularly scary-looking attack, we go to...
-[X] Counter-Attack
-[X] (-3 Orthstirr) Contested Movement + X Stoked Dice
--[X] If we have at least thirty Stoked Dice in our pool, then throw all of our pool except six Stoked Dice into a Sharpened Lightning-Charged Stoking Strike with Puncture (-11 Orthstirr) which we combine with a Delayed Firebomb Strike (+3 Stoked Dice) (- ?? Orthstirr for layering another Trick on top). The six remaining Stoked Dice go into the Hamr check.
--[X] The three Stoked Dice generated from our FBS are saved for next turn.
--[X] If something went wrong and we didn't land that many Basics, then throw our whole Stoked Pool into Contested Movement, and hit him with a Spark-Bomb with Puncture (-24 Orthstirr).
-[X] Total Orthstirr expenditure: -173 Orthstirr (-186 Orthstirr if we use Sparkbomb) (-12 extra Orthstirr if we use a final Firebomb-Strike to finish him off)
-[X] Total Stoked Dice Accounting: 18 + 15 - 3 - 18 + Stoking Engage = 12 + Stoking Engage
This spends around a hundred and thirty Orthstirr, and we avoid using a charge of Fight of Your Life, but I think we still have a very good chance of seriously wounding this guy in the first round of combat.
Let's bury this fucker in his own blood.
EDIT: Numerous tweaks and revisions, thanks go out to @DeadmanwalkingXI as always for his wealth of system knowledge and immense generosity in sharing it with anyone else who is coming up with a plan.
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- He/His/etc
Meanwhile in the other quest:
"She's 'about as strong as I am' but she's in full mail with an ornate helmet and I'm pretty sure that atgeir is looking at me. Wtf is this place why is it so rich"
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Slowing Slog is only DR 1 here, which is probably not worth it. You need 81 Orthstirr for the DR 9.
I also think throwing a few high die attacks like that without Puncture probably won't do much. We could ignore that entire attack routine for less than 10 Orthstirr aside from the basics. So can this guy if he has Perfect defenses, which he does because almost everyone picks those up.
Also, you should have something specifically anti-fleinn...fleinns are bad news for us for a host of reasons, and I'm not sure whether Contested Movement is a good counter to that.
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AeonIlluminate
The power of friendship and aggressive landscaping
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- They/Them
IF, will we get a recharge on our Orth between this fight and the second one against the 2 small groups? Mainly for budget concerns.
Ah, good point, I forgot to throw in Puncture. Will amend, and probably remove the Kindle-Spinners.
Hmmm, Slowing Slog is really tempting, but 81 Orthstirr is a lot... We have to refresh it every round, right?
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- Location
- In the oldest city on the oldest land
is there enough space for a flashfire cleave?
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We do. I don't think it's worth it at this stage vs. this guy...we'll see what the Tactics Tricks say. We do have DR4 even without it. Plus Reinforce Shield on our armor and ERA, which you should definitely add...we had time to prep them and they're very good.
I think so, but it would be worth checking.
@Imperial Fister, can we use Flashfire Cleave here?
I was thinking we'd use Slowing Slog instead, but yeah, fair point. I think we should keep Slowing Slog in the plan in some form because 9 Orthstirr for an extra DR is not bad and it gives us more Stoked Dice.
Will add in ERA and some Reinforce-Shield, it's not hugely expensive.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Plan Orthficiency And Keeping Tricks In Reserve
-[X] Invest 3 Orthstirr in Hugr, 1 in Composure, 4 in Tactics, 3 in Scouting (-11 Orthstirr)
-[X] 109d6 Attack (109d6 tricks)
-[X] 20d6 Defense (20d6 tricks)
-[X] 0d6 Intercept
-[X] Put 4 Orthstirr into 8 layers of Reinforce Shield before the combat begins(-4 Orthstirr) and add an instance of Explosive Reactive Armor (-9 Orthstirr)
-[X] Activate Stoker State 3 (-9 Orthstirr), Slipstream (-8 Orthstirr), and Fanned Flames (-7 Orthstirr).
-[X] Put up a 40d6+15 (w/Hugareida) Atgeir Bodyguard (-46 Orthstirr), and an 8d6+15 Semi-Halting Vortex (-5 Orthstirr), use the Semi-Halting Vortex only against Basic Attacks, the Sword Guard only against Trick attacks, and neither against Fleinns
-[X] Open up with two 33d6+6 Sharpened x3 Lightning-Charged Firebomb Strikes w/ Puncture (-13 Orthstirr each, gain 3 Stoked Dice each), then follow up via a total of nine 6d6+6 Sharpenedx2 Firebomb Strike attacks (-2 Orthstirr each, gain 3 Stoked Dice each), if at any point a Guard defense is presented to us or we have a good opportunity, use a 28d6+6 Devouring Blaze using 6 Stoked Dice (-8 Orthstirr) to burn out guards (and do slight damage) over the entire enemy formation (favoring not hitting our own people over hitting more of theirs if we need to make a choice) and immediately follow it up with another 33d6+6 Sharpened x3 Lightning-Charged Firebomb Strikes w/ Puncture (-13 Orthstirr, gain 3 Stoked Dice),.
-[X] By default use Atgeir Bodyguard to defend against Trick Attacks and Semi-Halting Vortex to defend against Basic Attacks (except Fleinns, as noted above). In response to anything not a Fleinn or without Puncture or some other obvious ability to ignore Perfect defenses that gets through those use Halting Vortex (-2 Orthstirr), and if facing a fleinn-based basic attack or other basic attack that gets through our guard use up to four 15d6+15 Reinforcedx10 Sway defenses (-12 Orthstirr each) and/or rely on our Reinforce Shield, and if faced with any Trick that got through Sword Guard and has Puncture or some other ability to ignore Perfects, instead use a quick-drawn Shield Sacrifice (-1 Shield) or, in melee, a Contested Movement (see below).
-[X] Against the first melee attack that gets through our Guard use a Contested Movement (-3 Orthstirr, +3 Stoked Dice) adding one use of Fight of Our Life (16d6+6 total on the roll) and counterattacking with a Sharpenedx1 Lightning-Charged Firebomb Strike (-2 Orthstirr).
-[X] Tactics – Open up with a big Firebomb Strike and use the fact that we have Perfected Firebomb Strike to treat it like a basic and make a bunch of attacks with it and Sharpen (using one of the methods we discovered that allow that), using a Devouring Blaze to eliminate any Guard effects when and if that becomes relevant. Defensively, use our Guards as needed, Perfects as it's an option, and keep shields in mind for emergencies and uses of Puncture.
Okay, so, the idea here is to avoid giving away any more of our capabilities than we have to while engaging in maximal efficiency. Hence only Firebomb Strikes being used offensively for the most part. Remember, people are watching and we want to keep them guessing. If things go right, this plan is actually super cheap offensively (50 Orthstirr or so) and costs almost nothing defensively if we can keep our Guards through the round...which is certainly an if, but worth trying, I think.
EDIT: Added Fanned Flames. Fixed typo. Edited to take into account his likely dice pool on attacks and defenses.
EDIT2: After getting his likely dice pool, plan adjusted for more, somewhat smaller, big attacks and smaller small attacks. And a smaller Guard effect.
-[X] Invest 3 Orthstirr in Hugr, 1 in Composure, 4 in Tactics, 3 in Scouting (-11 Orthstirr)
-[X] 109d6 Attack (109d6 tricks)
-[X] 20d6 Defense (20d6 tricks)
-[X] 0d6 Intercept
-[X] Put 4 Orthstirr into 8 layers of Reinforce Shield before the combat begins(-4 Orthstirr) and add an instance of Explosive Reactive Armor (-9 Orthstirr)
-[X] Activate Stoker State 3 (-9 Orthstirr), Slipstream (-8 Orthstirr), and Fanned Flames (-7 Orthstirr).
-[X] Put up a 40d6+15 (w/Hugareida) Atgeir Bodyguard (-46 Orthstirr), and an 8d6+15 Semi-Halting Vortex (-5 Orthstirr), use the Semi-Halting Vortex only against Basic Attacks, the Sword Guard only against Trick attacks, and neither against Fleinns
-[X] Open up with two 33d6+6 Sharpened x3 Lightning-Charged Firebomb Strikes w/ Puncture (-13 Orthstirr each, gain 3 Stoked Dice each), then follow up via a total of nine 6d6+6 Sharpenedx2 Firebomb Strike attacks (-2 Orthstirr each, gain 3 Stoked Dice each), if at any point a Guard defense is presented to us or we have a good opportunity, use a 28d6+6 Devouring Blaze using 6 Stoked Dice (-8 Orthstirr) to burn out guards (and do slight damage) over the entire enemy formation (favoring not hitting our own people over hitting more of theirs if we need to make a choice) and immediately follow it up with another 33d6+6 Sharpened x3 Lightning-Charged Firebomb Strikes w/ Puncture (-13 Orthstirr, gain 3 Stoked Dice),.
-[X] By default use Atgeir Bodyguard to defend against Trick Attacks and Semi-Halting Vortex to defend against Basic Attacks (except Fleinns, as noted above). In response to anything not a Fleinn or without Puncture or some other obvious ability to ignore Perfect defenses that gets through those use Halting Vortex (-2 Orthstirr), and if facing a fleinn-based basic attack or other basic attack that gets through our guard use up to four 15d6+15 Reinforcedx10 Sway defenses (-12 Orthstirr each) and/or rely on our Reinforce Shield, and if faced with any Trick that got through Sword Guard and has Puncture or some other ability to ignore Perfects, instead use a quick-drawn Shield Sacrifice (-1 Shield) or, in melee, a Contested Movement (see below).
-[X] Against the first melee attack that gets through our Guard use a Contested Movement (-3 Orthstirr, +3 Stoked Dice) adding one use of Fight of Our Life (16d6+6 total on the roll) and counterattacking with a Sharpenedx1 Lightning-Charged Firebomb Strike (-2 Orthstirr).
-[X] Tactics – Open up with a big Firebomb Strike and use the fact that we have Perfected Firebomb Strike to treat it like a basic and make a bunch of attacks with it and Sharpen (using one of the methods we discovered that allow that), using a Devouring Blaze to eliminate any Guard effects when and if that becomes relevant. Defensively, use our Guards as needed, Perfects as it's an option, and keep shields in mind for emergencies and uses of Puncture.
Okay, so, the idea here is to avoid giving away any more of our capabilities than we have to while engaging in maximal efficiency. Hence only Firebomb Strikes being used offensively for the most part. Remember, people are watching and we want to keep them guessing. If things go right, this plan is actually super cheap offensively (50 Orthstirr or so) and costs almost nothing defensively if we can keep our Guards through the round...which is certainly an if, but worth trying, I think.
EDIT: Added Fanned Flames. Fixed typo. Edited to take into account his likely dice pool on attacks and defenses.
EDIT2: After getting his likely dice pool, plan adjusted for more, somewhat smaller, big attacks and smaller small attacks. And a smaller Guard effect.
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- Pronouns
- He/Him
Slowing Slog and Reinforce Shield stack...I don't think we should ever neglect Reinforce Shield if investing heavily enough in defense that we're using Slowing Slog.
Wait. Why do the Kindle Spinners cost anything? We have them Perfected...they should cost dice alone.
You can't Sharpen defenses, which HHC technically is.
AeonIlluminate
The power of friendship and aggressive landscaping
- Pronouns
- They/Them
[X] DeadmanWalkingXI
- Location
- Many Places
[X] Plan Orthficiency And Keeping Tricks In Reserve
Yeah, they only did cost dice alone, that was just me getting mixed up, realising (the Orthstirr total is correct), then forgetting to edit.
Ah, good catch, thanks!
So this is a solid plan, but I think neglecting to use Stoker State because people are watching is not a sufficiently compelling reason in this case? There's a battle going on and we aren't one of the picked champions; people have better things to pay attention to than just us specifically.
Also, Fanned Flames and a single level of Slowing Slog give us six Stoked Dice and are only beneficial and cost a measly 18 Orthtirr. That level of Slowing Slog is also so imperceptible there cannot be any rational argument that it is going to reveal its existence to people.
- Location
- some computer lab
[x]Skippy
I see wanting to hold something in reserve, but we have FTB up our sleeve so I'm not too worried about that.
I see wanting to hold something in reserve, but we have FTB up our sleeve so I'm not too worried about that.
- Location
- Many Places
That Level of Slowing Slog is enough to deflect any attack made by mortal man
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'm not trying to hold Stoker State in reserve per se, I just think that given that FBS deals basically double the damage of our Basic Attacks while still granting Stoker State dice, burning on Stoking Engage is not worth it right this second...we don't need to gain dice quite that fast.
Fanned Flames is Emberwind...it does not grant Stoker State dice. Slowing Slog would, but I consider 9 Orthstirr for 3 dice when we could get 3 dice for 1-2 Orthstirr a poor trade. Too expensive. And the DR is, IMO, unlikely to come up one way or another...Reinforce Shield probably short circuits it coming up at all, as a hit that breaks it is usually a turn ender.
That's not an absolute rule, but it's enough to make me think it's not worth the fairly high costs. And, as alextehalright notes, if it comes up a level of DR is pretty noticeable...they might not know where it's from, but they'd sure know we have it.
We want to try and avoid needing Finales here given Steinarr's emphasis on endurance. A finale is 315 Orthstirr we can't spend elsewhere...with budgeting, that's 3-6 turns of combat...we don't want to burn that if we can possibly avoid it, not unless we wind up against a Champion or something.
- Location
- some computer lab
Wow, I had no idea Halla had so much Orthstirr now. I remember being excited when we ended up with like 200 total. Maybe we should go in the Hyperbolic Time Longship more often. It makes sense that Vikings doing Viking things get stronger faster.
Well, fair point, but we aren't fighting mortal men.
There's so many things which give 1 DR which exist in the setting that it would be insane to conclude "Aha, this is clearly an attenuated form of an incredibly powerful technique which can scale up to nine times the amount of damage resistance, I will immediately DM everyone in my raiding party and inform them about it.".
Ah, good point on Fanned Flames. Still, given the amount of Firebomb-Strikes your plan uses, it seems like something which empowers and quickens fire is a bit of a no-brainer? Nine Orthstirr for three stoked dice seems like a good trade to me, given how useful Stoked Dice are. Getting it for 1-2 Orthstirr has a much higher opportunity cost.
More generally, allowing a vague sense of paranoia to stop us from using our most powerful abilities will mean we never use them and are less powerful as a result. It's not a good mindset to get stuck in.
I think you switched which Weapon Guard you meant
- Location
- Many Places
Fair enough, I thought you were saying that nobody would notice it's existence.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Wildly, like 110 of that is since we got back from the trip.
Fair enough on Fanned Flames, I'll add that for that reason.
So, to be clear, my original plan before even considering this was still almost entirely FBS...Perfected FBS is really good in this specific situation, I think. The only things I really cut were using EWC to skim along the ground and opening with a FFC (which is only +2 damage or so over FBS at this point, and only to armor, which is a lower priority given this guy only has a gambeson...in practice, it's likely spending 6 Orthstirr for +1 damage which is...not great when examined). I'm not foregoing much for paranoia's sake here, the big reason for FBS is sheer orthficiency, hence the plan name. I just realized the benefits of keeping secrets and made very minor changes to do so.
The reasons to not use, like, Slowing Slog are about endurance and efficiency, not primarily keeping a secret.
I did, after seeing our opponent was a swordsman, I'll fix it. EDIT: And fixed, both now reference Atgeir Bodyguard.
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AeonIlluminate
The power of friendship and aggressive landscaping
- Pronouns
- They/Them
This guy is realistically probably not strong enough to be worth using it for, however there is the large group of their elites back at the boats that we will get to fight at some point, it will probably be more interesting to reveal it there, as it will also be actually worth it as they have a hope in hell of doing more than like 4 damage, which our base DR just eats
- Location
- Pittsburgh PA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Plan It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint